Will expected tip amounts ever get this high?

[mondragon]

The those who travel from Quebec who are known as very bad tippers. South Florida is flooded with people from Quebec between November and April.

 

[DisneyHardin]

My husband was a server at a mid-level chain steakhouse in college and shortly after we married. I assure you that most of his paychecks were for $0. Every bit of the $2.13 he was paid in wages was taken up by Social Security/Medicare and federal income tax.

One of my good friends is a server at Texas Roadhouse and she usually gets less than $5 on her "Paycheck" too. She is an excellent server and makes good tips.

 

[mondragon]

I know there were some real penny pitchers on this board from the numerous threads on cooking ramen noodles and hotdogs in the hotel coffee pot to packing cooked spaghetti in sauce in their luggage. I thought they were just too cheap to dine out but I guess not. Apparently the servers should be grateful for whatever pittance is left behind. I am sure they are all very low maintenance customers too.

 

[tvguy]

Employers should compensate employees, period. Not the customer. Tipping should be an expression of gratitude for exceptional service, not an expected or demanded service charge.

I agree. But the flip side is, there really are a few jobs out there where the work and skills needed aren't worth even minimum wage. In my experience, those are the jobs the seem to disappear when the economy tanks. Some may never come back. I have worked the past 38 years in departments of about 80 people, and we used to have a secretary to help with the phones, handle supply needs, time sheets, expense reports. Now, if a phone rings, somebody better answer it, supplies, head to the business office, because they won't no longer even allow a supply cabinet in our department, everything else, there's an internet site to handle.

 

[I M Fearless]

Yowza. I didn't realize that. However, it seems the system needs to be changed, not the tipping amount. I don't understand why the onus is on the diners to supplement the incomes of staff because the employers won't give them a fair wage. I feel the same way about hotel staff. We (general public who can afford to dine out or go on vacation) are always being made to feel the burden of guilt for employees not receiving fair wages and make up for that with tips. It's one more cost that falls predominantly on the middle class.

Tips are no longer a compliment for good service, they are becoming more like extortion. 25%? A quarter of the bill? Not reasonable. I am still reeling from now paying 20%; my sympathies to those wait people who are underpaid, but tip expectations are getting extreme. It just feels like another tax, and a hefty one.

The flip side of employers paying a fair wage is that the tip becomes less important.

Being from the UK service is included and although people often leave a few quid to make an acknowledgement of good service this is generally not expected nor is it something most staff rely on.

The upshot of this is that service is pretty poor. Wherever you go staff these days seem distracted, less than focused and generally indifferent to the customer. Why should they care? They get paid fairly by the establishment, and you foot the bill in any case as the food costs more.

Keeping the tip as a big part of a server's pay gives the consumer the power... Obviously with power comes responsibility. All I'm gonna say is having experienced service in the USA and the UK it is very different altogether. I much prefer the USA system. I'm more than happy to tip fairly to keep the system working as it should for all. It is definitely better as a customer to be served by staff who are wanting to impress you, make you feel welcome and to generally do a good job.

 

[tasha99]

I agree. But the flip side is, there really are a few jobs out there where the work and skills needed aren't worth even minimum wage. In my experience, those are the jobs the seem to disappear when the economy tanks. Some may never come back. I have worked the past 38 years in departments of about 80 people, and we used to have a secretary to help with the phones, handle supply needs, time sheets, expense reports. Now, if a phone rings, somebody better answer it, supplies, head to the business office, because they won't no longer even allow a supply cabinet in our department, everything else, there's an internet site to handle.

I've seen things like that happen as well, and have to wonder at it. So when someone making a professional hourly wage is spending time doing jobs that used to be taken by people making $9/hr, how is that saving the company money? I suppose if you're salaried it could, except I'm sure if it gets to be too much, it affects retention.

 

[I M Fearless]

It all comes down to whether or not you care about how your actions effect other people.

You know if you leave a good tip in a restaurant, the server, (who is a person), will be happy. You know if you leave a bad tip, the server will be unhappy. What do you do?

The only real excuse for tipping poorly is if you truly can't afford it. In that case, I would apologize to the server and explain my situation.

I would have to argue that if you can't afford something you shouldn't expect to take it for free. What if you can't afford clothing? ... you shouldn't expect to stroll into Macy's and head for the door after explaining your situation to staff. This is no different, it is understood that if you order food in a sit down restaurant that you will later pay for the food and service you received.

 

[tvguy]

I've seen things like that happen as well, and have to wonder at it. So when someone making a professional hourly wage is spending time doing jobs that used to be taken by people making $9/hr, how is that saving the company money? I suppose if you're salaried it could, except I'm sure if it gets to be too much, it affects retention.

Retention is a word that is no longer in the vocabulary of many corporations.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Excellent way of putting it.

A tip should be considered a gesture from a patron that a nice job was done. It should not, under any circumstances, be expected. And again, for the server I gave a $100 bill to for a $91 meal....I'm sure she'd much rather have my $8 and change tip than for my party of 3 to not have ate at all. We had one app, 3 entrees, 3 drinks. No desserts. She walked to our table a total of 5 times (once to take drink/app order, once to deliver app, once to deliver drinks, once to deliver entrees, once to refill drinks and give the check). As she was walking by from another table I gave her the $100 and a check so no special trip was made. She earned about $1.70 per trip for walking to our table and setting our food down. Not too shabby. I deal in cash and never use my debit card at a restaurant. Dont have a credit card. My tips are always cash and its up to the server if they report it as income or not. If she reported it and was taxed 15% thats roughly $1.27 of her $8.50 tip which makes it a $7.23 tip for an hours "work" of bring food to my table. Thats now $1.45 per trip to my table. This restaurant was not a tip share restaurant. So even if she reported the income, she still made between $9.50 and $10 an hour for the hour I was there. I'm not concerned with paying for the hours other people are there.

She greeted you, took your order, conveyed your correct appetizer order, brought your correct appetizer, ordered or prepared your correct drinks, brought your correct drinks, correctly placed the correct entrée order with the kitchen, brought your correct entrées, brought your accurate check. Simply because she only cane to your table five times unbidden doesn't mean she wasn't performing work to provide you a complete dining experience. No idea how you know the restaurant doesn't require tip sharing, but okay. But if you tipped under $9 and the restaurant had a number of empty tables, unless you were watching the ither diners how can you know whether she was tipped that extra dollarcand change ?

Given the choice of an empty table or our party, I've no doubt she would prefer the tip she got over nothing at all.

She the different party mentioned by the poster you answered, but nobody mentioned an empty table

If I hadn't used the table it does not guarantee the next person who sat there would have tipped any more or less than I.

More likely than not, any other party would have tipped at least in the double-digit percentage range.

Does anyone think that Springs1 is back and posting on this thread under a new name?

Nope. Everybody in the thread has been too calm, and theres been no overabundance of exclamation points!!!!!!!!!

why is it cheap to tip somebody multiples of what you make in an hour for 10 minutes of their time?

Spending ten minutes at your table doesn't necessarily mean they're only performing ten minutes of work that benefits you.

Even going to a low end place, if my family of 5 spends $25 and our server goes through 6 tables an hour, 20% suggests that person is making $30/hour.

Yes, if they only work one hour with all their tables occupied by parties that tip in the standard range.

What is the social norm? I don't see it. Quite a bit of fluctuation here on whats considered the "norm" and that tells me there is no "social norm".

With all your success, could you be so kind as to point me in the direction where I can find a posted rate for demanding the use of a service?

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Menu/DiningEtiquetteGuide.htm

Paying your rent is your problem, not your customers. Maybe your attitude problem came out in your service and that is why you got the tip you did. Server's rarely see why they don't deserve a tip, they feel its expected no matter what. Well some people don't feel that way, and that is their right.

Reread the post. There wasn't an attitude problem from the server before the 'tip'.

Employers should compensate employees, period. Not the customer. Tipping should be an expression of gratitude for exceptional service, not an expected or demanded service charge.

Employers pay the mandated minimum wage. Customers who feel this should be changed need to contact their state or federal legislators to change the legal minimum wage for servers and bartenders.
Not servers. They're not the ones echoing the need for a change.
Not customersxwho agree with tipping or at least are willing to tip fairly.

 

[tvguy]

She greeted you, took your order, conveyed your correct appetizer order, brought your correct appetizer, ordered or prepared your correct drinks, brought your correct drinks, correctly placed the correct entrée order with the kitchen, brought your correct entrées, brought your accurate check. Simply because she only cane to your table five times unbidden doesn't mean she wasn't performing work to provide you a complete dining experience. No idea how you know the restaurant doesn't require tip sharing, but okay. But if you tipped under $9 and the restaurant had a number of empty tables, unless you were watching the ither diners how can you know whether she was tipped that extra dollarcand change ?
She the different party mentioned by the poster you answered, but nobody mentioned an empty table

More likely than not, any other party would have tipped at least in the double-digit percentage range.

Nope. Everybody in the thread has been too calm, and theres been no overabundance of exclamation points!!!!!!!!!

Spending ten minutes at your table doesn't necessarily mean they're only performing ten minutes of work that benefits you.


Yes, if they only work one hour with all their tables occupied by parties that tip in the standard range.



http://whatscookingamerica.net/Menu/DiningEtiquetteGuide.htm

Reread the post. There wasn't an attitude problem from the server before the 'tip'.

Employers pay the mandated minimum wage. Customers who feel this should be changed need to contact their state or federal legislators to change the legal minimum wage for servers and bartenders.
Not servers. They're not the ones echoing the need for a change.
Not customersxwho agree with tipping or at least are willing to tip fairly.

This just in, Los Angeles will raise minimum wage, without regard to whether it is a tipped, or non-tipped position, in steps, to $15 an hour.
But bottom line is, employers of tipped workers have to pay enough to attract the workers they need, and apparently given that there is no shortage of wait staff, sot current pay scales are high enough. McDonalds on the other hand, pays above minimum wage because there is no opportunity for their workers to get tips, so the HAVE to pay more to attract the quality of staff they want.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/los-angeles-raises-minimum-wage-15-hour-31748596

 

[Disneyliscious]

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Menu/DiningEtiquetteGuide.htm

That is an etiquette guide. Its not a mandated social norm for tipping. Minimum wage has a lawfully stated amount that must be paid. I see no such thing for tipping. Why? There isn't one. There is no law that says I must tip a certain amount. Period. Tipping is subjective and while many people may agree on a certain percentage, many agree on a different percentage or structure. One is no more "right" than the other.

correctly placed the correct entrée order with the kitchen, brought your correct entrées,

Actually this is untrue. My bf ordered an entree of 3 sliders. I ordered an additional plate of sliders for me and our friend to share along with each of our own entrees. Instead of getting 2 plates of sliders, she brought 1 additional slider on my bf's plate (4 sliders total). We didn't complain because it wasn't a big deal but no, she did not get our order correct

 

[tvguy]

I have chatted with several servers over the years on cruises. They say they do get stiffed by some international passengers who come from nations where tipping is not the norm, or even is considered an insult. In that work environment, they say it just comes with the job.

 

[kaytieeldr]

That is an etiquette guide. Its not a mandated social norm for tipping.

Etiquette IS the social norm. Your norm doesn't dictate how society behaves. Society's norm dictates. Mandated? No. Reasonable, fair, and considerate? You betcha.

 

[Disneyliscious]

Your norm doesn't dictate how society behaves

Right, just as their norm doesn't dictate how I behave.

Mandated? No. Reasonable, fair, and considerate? You betcha.

Reasonable, fair and considerate as determined by who? Society? Society is 100% in agreement on this? No. Therefore it is the OPINION of some that this is reasonable, fair, and considerate.

I will never understand how people think THEIR beliefs are the only one that is right lol. Just because a majority agrees to something does not make it "right" or "just" or "fair" or "law".

 

[I M Fearless]

Just because a majority agrees to something does not make it "right" or "just" or "fair" or "law".

A majority agreeing something does not make it right, just, fair or law. All of these things are independent of each other. Lots of laws are unfair. Doing the right thing may not always be fair to everyone. Something could be fair but illegal.

The thing is, most people generally conform to the majority, because they feel most comfortable doing so.

Look at wearing clothes. Young children do not really care if they walk around naked - they are not acting in a wrong, unfair, unjust or illegal manner. People recognise that they are too young to have learnt the social norms.

But as we get older, in most societies people wear clothes in public, because that is what the majority do.

While there are always going to be people who go against the grain, or do something different to the majority, it's fair to say that not everyone will approve of this. Sticking with the clothing example, nudism is something that many people do not embrace.

If people choose to not tip their server in line with social norms, it is likely to be disapproved of by the majority of people in society. Just as if a nudist decided to wander down Main Street naked, the majority of people in society would disapprove.

I guess my point is that although everyone can choose to go against the grain and do things differently to the social norms, they should not be surprised when other people disapprove of this.

 

[Judique]

How much do you think people that make minimum wage make after working a 6 hour shift? You still made more than minimum wage on that 6 hour shift.

Not if they were working here in Montgomery County and Prince George's County, Maryland - Minimum wage is now 9.55 and will be going up again soon in 2016 to 10.75 and in 2017 it will be 11.50.

The rest of Maryland is 8.25 for 2015.

 

[Eastern]

Keep on keepin' on, I guess. Don't let the pull of being a decent human being get in your way of demading the use of a service without paying the appropriate rate for it.

But I really shouldn't be too harsh on you...after all its the existence of people like you that ensured I would finish school and get the heck out of the service industry. I guess I have your demand to be insultingly cheap to thank in a way for all my success.

I feel the same way. It's a real experience to work as a server. I did it for about 4 years and it made me want to get my degree so I would never have to do it again. Most of the people I worked with were women without a degree or skills. We all worked hard for our money. I couldn't do it now even if I wanted to; just too stressful/physical.

 

[Eastern]

Why is a $100 hard ?

If I go to a restaurant and I order 5 apps for $50 bucks or go out and get 5 entrees for $100. What is the difference to the server ?

Your bringing 5 plates of hot food out. Your going to have to come to my table the same amount either way.

It's not easy being a server. It's hard to appreciate the effort involved if you have never done it.

It's not just about standing around until you have to pick up a plate and drop it on a table. It's messy, dirty, sweaty, hard physical labor, and you have to be organized and efficient, as well. Plus you have to keep smiling.

And don't forget the tables that say they are fine, then someone needs ketchup, then someone wants a drink (no one else) so you stand at the bar in line for your order, go drop it off...'oh, can I have one of those too?' Endless cycles of this.

Try it sometime!

 

[tvguy]

It's not easy being a server. It's hard to appreciate the effort involved if you have never done it.

It's not just about standing around until you have to pick up a plate and drop it on a table. It's messy, dirty, sweaty, hard physical labor, and you have to be organized and efficient, as well. Plus you have to keep smiling.

And don't forget the tables that say they are fine, then someone needs ketchup, then someone wants a drink (no one else) so you stand at the bar in line for your order, go drop it off...'oh, can I have one of those too?' Endless cycles of this.

Try it sometime!

No question it is hard work. I really think the first step is not raising minimum wage, but states like Texas eliminating the sub-minimum wage of $2.13. No question, someone working in a restaurant with inexpensive items like Waffle House and a $2.13 minimum wage in Texas is going to have a much tougher time than someone working at Denny's in San Francisco with a $12.25 minimum wage before tips.
But as I mentioned before, we have been focusing on doing stories on better jobs this year, and we are seeing a lot of people going back to tipped jobs because the income potential is higher that many jobs that require a college degree and don't include tips.