Would you go to SW if there were no Orcas?

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Stop them performing let the die out naturally and STOP BREEDING THEM they belong in the wild not performing idiot tricks. If their health care is so good why is the survival rate of animals right from birth worse than in the wild?

HOW could you know the survival rate in the wild???? :confused3
Are you there, counting every new born and every dieing whale????

What about Manatees?? They started breeding programms to let this species survive should they have problems in the wild... Should we free them all and say SORRY if they extinct?? :confused3

And I guess your point wasn´t what the OP asked. He wanted to know who would still go to seaworld if the whales were gone. Not if they should be there.
I personally wouldn´t go. They are a HUGE part of Seaworld for me and allthough the sealions, Dolphins and all the other animals are great, SHAMU is the Centerpiece of the park!
That is what makes Seaworld so special.
There are SOOO many parks with dolphins, Manatees or sealions.
Or coasters.
The Killer Whales are what makes it special, to ME!

:cloud9:
 
I love what Sea World does for all marine life, and their approaches to how they do things. I guess being a native Floridian, I hear more of these things first hand.

Any time there's a need, all the different parks work together... Disney, Sea World, Bucsh Garden, Miami Aquarium, Miami Zoo... they all head out together to do the best that they can.

I would hate to see the whales gone, and something happen to the park. So I will show my support for the park and continue going every other day. I just don't have it in me to stop going if they made a choice like that.
 
I love what Sea World does for all marine life, and their approaches to how they do things. I guess being a native Floridian, I hear more of these things first hand.

Any time there's a need, all the different parks work together... Disney, Sea World, Bucsh Garden, Miami Aquarium, Miami Zoo... they all head out together to do the best that they can.

I would hate to see the whales gone, and something happen to the park. So I will show my support for the park and continue going every other day. I just don't have it in me to stop going if they made a choice like that.

:thumbsup2

The amount of stories of how Sea World has been called in to help hurt whale sfound in the wild, The amount of stories where they have released these whales after bringing them back form near death. You don't hear a lot about those stories, but they exist.

And they can help, you know why? Because having the orcas, they are able to research and learn about them. Keeping these orcas and learning from them (not just teaching them tricks and making them perform as some people think) has taught them so much that they are able to save and help the orcas population. The population of manatees was saved in just this way and they were brought back from extinction.

SeaWorld is about so much more than "putting wild animals on display". These parks attempt to teach. And if you go, you can see how much you can learn about the amazing creatures that inhabit our oceans.
 


HOW could you know the survival rate in the wild???? :confused3
Are you there, counting every new born and every dieing whale????

What about Manatees?? They started breeding programms to let this species survive should they have problems in the wild... Should we free them all and say SORRY if they extinct?? :confused3

And I guess your point wasn´t what the OP asked. He wanted to know who would still go to seaworld if the whales were gone. Not if they should be there.
I personally wouldn´t go. They are a HUGE part of Seaworld for me and allthough the sealions, Dolphins and all the other animals are great, SHAMU is the Centerpiece of the park!
That is what makes Seaworld so special.
There are SOOO many parks with dolphins, Manatees or sealions.
Or coasters.
The Killer Whales are what makes it special, to ME!

:cloud9:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_orcas#Tank_size_and_water_conditions
Disease and reduced lifespan

Captive killer whales have vastly reduced life expectancies, many having only lived into their 20s; however, there are examples of orcas living longer, including many who are over 30 years old, and two (Corky II and Lolita/Tokitae) who are around 40 years of age. In the wild, female orcas can live 80 years (though these are rare occurrences), while males can live to be 60 (though the average for males is roughly thirty).

SeaWorld San Antonio's 14-year-old Taku, born in captivity, died unexpectedly on October 17, 2007. Trainers were notified that Taku had been acting differently a week before his death. The necropsy determined that Taku had died from a sudden case of pneumonia, a common illness among captive orcas.[50][51]

The original Namu developed a bacterial infection which damaged his nervous system, causing him to become nonresponsive to people. During his illness he charged full-speed into the wire mesh of his pen, thrashed violently for a few minutes and then died.[52]
[edit] Dorsal fin collapse
This male (Tilikum), at SeaWorld Orlando, has a collapsed dorsal fin.

Most male captive killer whales, and some females, have a dorsal fin that is partially or completely collapsed to one side. Several theories exist as to why this happens. A dorsal fin is held erect by collagen, which normally hardens in late adolescence.

Scientists from the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) have reported that "the collapsed dorsal fins commonly seen in captive killer whales do not result from a pathogenic condition, but are instead thought to most likely originate from an irreversible structural change in the fin's collagen over time. Possible explanations for this include: (1) alterations in water balance caused by the stresses of captivity dietary changes, (2) lowered blood pressure due to reduced activity patterns, or (3) overheating of the collagen brought on by greater exposure of the fin to the ambient air."[53] According to SeaWorld's website, another reason for the fin to bend may be the greater amount of time that captive whales spend at the surface, where the fin is not supported by water pressure.[54] The Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society says that dorsal fin collapse is largely explained by captive killer whales swimming in small circles due to the inadequate space in which they have to swim.[55] SeaWorld, however, claims that "Neither the shape nor the droop of a whale's dorsal fin are indicators of a killer whale's health or well-being."[54]

Collapsed or collapsing dorsal fins are rare in most wild populations and usually result from a serious injury to the fin, such as from being shot or colliding with a vessel.[53] After the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill, the dorsal fins of two male resident killer whales who had been exposed to the oil collapsed, and the animals subsequently died. In 2002, the dorsal fin of a stranded killer whale showed signs of collapse after three days but regained its natural upright appearance as soon as the orca resumed strong normal swimming upon release.[53]

Although it has been reported that seven out of 30 (23%) wild adult male killer whales from New Zealand waters have bent dorsal fins,[54][56] this figure includes a variety of dorsal fin abnormalities, including rippled or twisted fins, in addition to simple one-sided collapse.[57] The New Zealand study noted that, in addition to the high prevalence of dorsal fin deformities, two of the 30 adult males in this population also had prolific body scarring that were consistent with bite marks from other killer whales.[57] The prevalence of dorsal fin deformities is 4.7% among adult male orcas in British Columbia and 0.57% in Norway.[57] Amongst the well-studied wild killer whales off the coast of British Columbia, the total rate of dorsal fin collapse is around 1%.[58][59]

http://www.wdcs.org/submissions_bin/Which_would_you_prefer.pdf

From the Whale and dolphin conservation society

Wild Orcas
Males live to an average age of 35 years (max 50 - 60 years
Females live to an average of 50 years (max 80 - 90)
Groups can travel up to 160km (100 miles a day)
Home ranges can be 800 to 1500 km (500 - 900 miles) per day
are extremely social
have highly developed brains
are supremely adapted to the rigours of life in the ocean
live inclosely bonded matrillineal groups
captive orcas
most do not survive over the age of 20
136 orcas have been caught from the wild
123 of them are now dead (medium survival 4.5 years)
the median age of orcas born in captivity (to survive over 12 months) is 8.5 years
Shame stadium is only 10.7 m deep
four captive orcase are kept on their own (ie Lotita)
are regularly transferred for breeding programmes
are seperated from their family members.

If we are just going to remember the trainer please remember Alexis Martínez from Puerto de la Cruz died 24th December 2009 drowned by a killer whale but unfortunatly forgotten already.
 
I am sorry. Moderators I think it is time to close this topic. This was not a forum to debate whether it is right or wrong to have animals kept in captivity. It is safe to say no one will be convinced by the other side, so time to close and say we agree to disagree and let it go.
 
I am sorry. Moderators I think it is time to close this topic. This was not a forum to debate whether it is right or wrong to have animals kept in captivity. It is safe to say no one will be convinced by the other side, so time to close and say we agree to disagree and let it go.


As the person that started this thread and specifically requested in my OP that this not turn into a captivity and anti captivity debate because it has no place here, I agree this thread should be now closed. I asked three times that we stay on topic. I am annoyed that it has turned out this way and that people have posted without having the decency to even answer my original question. If you can't be bothered to answer the question in the title of the thread, why would you even post on this thread :confused3? To everyone who has answered my question, thank you for your answers. I do apologise for the way this thread has turned out.
 


I'm locking this thread since it has veered from the original question.
 
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