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Wow how things have changed.

I don't understand what people do with all these recordings where they feel the need to thrust their phones up in the air into peoples view. Like they're going to re-watch fireworks? It's happening a lot for everything these days - FotLK is horrible about this too, like people are going to rewatch a 30 second clip?

I understand wanting to rewatch fireworks and shows. I don't understand feeling the need to record it yourself when the thing is on YouTube, professionally recorded. It's not like they change.

I AM a bit surprised no one seems interested in recording KiteTails when I'm there, though. You've got a decent chance of something going wrong with that one.
 
I agree the phones thing is annoying, but not at all that it is only women doing it. When last I watched fireworks in the hub, it was equally both genders - including fairly tall men. It was impossible to see around them!

If I ever do take a pic it's face high at most.

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Every day moving forward, they are on the same page as everyone else. I don't understand how there can be an argument that this system is not explicitly more fair for everyone.
You keep harping on this idea of fairness, but let's be honest in that Disney doesn't care if it's fair for their guests or not. It's not "more fair for everyone." It's more expensive for everyone and more profit for Disney. Is it fair for that single mom who's saved for years to give her kid that once-in-a-lifetime Mickey Mouse trip that she can't afford to skip the lines like those who are more well-off? Wouldn't it have been better for her to have been able to consult people like the ones that read this board and maybe book a few headliner FPs two months out? You've framed G+ as more fair, but that's only the case if you take money out of the equation and money IS the equation.
 
If I ever do take a pic it's face high at most.

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Oh man the kid on the shoulders in this picture makes me annoyed. That's another thing, if your child is small enough to go on your shoulders can't you hold them for 15 minutes instead of totally destroying the view of the people behind you that thought they had a decent view until the wall went up??? I know it's not that simple but when the person in front of you just grew two feet, there really is no contending with it.
 


Hope I can clarify things a bit.

There are 2 different things that can be purchased. Let's use Animal Kingdom as an example as Dinosaur is the ride being discussed.

Genie + is an option to purchase which allows you to book Lightning Lane return times (LLs) for many attractions in the park. (e.g. Festival of the Lion King, Kilimanjaro Safari, Naavi River Journey, Dinosaur.) The cost to purchase that is $15/person/day. For that $15 you may ride as many of the Lightning Lane rides (only once each) as you are able to book. (There are many restrictions re booking that I won't go in to here.) After using a LL for an attraction, if you wish to ride again you would need to enter via standby line.

Rides that are included with Genie + do not include the ILL$ rides. These are completely separate.

In each park there are 2 additional rides that can be purchased. These rides are not included in Genie + and each ride is an individual price. These are often referred to as ILL$ for Individual Lightning Lane at a cost.

In the AK, Flight of Passage and Expedition Everest are ILL$ rides. To gain access to these rides without waiting in the regular, standby line you must purchase each ride separately.


Summary:
LL is part of Genie +. You purchase that for $15/person/day. Once purchased there is no refund

ILL$ are 2 rides in each park that you pay a separate price ONLY for that one ride. Again, except due to extremely rare circumstances, no refunds will be offered.

You can purchase only Genie + and not purchase any ILL$.

You can purchase only 1 or 2 ILL$ and not purchase Genie +.

You can purchase both.

One thing to note is that even if you park hop, guests are limited to only 2 ILL$ purchase per day, across all parks.

I'm not sure if this has helped at all as it's very confusing to explain but I'm trying.

Thank you, that's a good capsule summary. But I still have a question. Which one requires you to book at 7 a.m.? And if you don't do that, can you book others ones for the rest of the day?
 
In 1990 I was living in Key West. Some family flew in for a visit and we headed to WDW for a few days. We paid about $30 a ticket. When we went to EPCOT I recall they had a large bank of phone booths near the entrance, each marked by a different country represented in the World Showcase. These were used to make your dining reservations. We chose Germany. In a thick German accent, the lady on the other end of the line confirmed our newly made lunch reservations for a few hours later. "Wow, how things have changed" indeed.
 
You keep harping on this idea of fairness, but let's be honest in that Disney doesn't care if it's fair for their guests or not. It's not "more fair for everyone." It's more expensive for everyone and more profit for Disney. Is it fair for that single mom who's saved for years to give her kid that once-in-a-lifetime Mickey Mouse trip that she can't afford to skip the lines like those who are more well-off? Wouldn't it have been better for her to have been able to consult people like the ones that read this board and maybe book a few headliner FPs two months out? You've framed G+ as more fair, but that's only the case if you take money out of the equation and money IS the equation.
I'm reminded of a favorite line in George Orwells classic 'Animal Farm' when the Hogs take over the main house. One of the little piglets left in the barn says "Of course we're all equal...it's just that some of us are more equal than others!"...lol.
 


Maybe they could change the Genie+ And $LL reservation window to the night before. 7pm instead of 7am.
Everyone seems to be stuck on the “7am is too early on vacation” part and I totally agree with that.
 
I'm glad we have taken so many Disney trips when it was still so much fun, and so easy. I loved being able to run around the parks collecting as many (free) fast passes from the kiosks as we wanted, and then saving them for the night time while we stood in reasonable lines for those same rides during the day. I loved being able to just wake up and decide where we would go that day, and even getting into Cinderella's Castle for a reasonably priced lunch on the spur of the moment. I loved being able to buy a reasonably priced annual pass that even covered both Disneyworld and Disneyland, so I could visit my friends in California and dip into the parks on either side of the country for a few hours without feeling like I had to spend every waking minute with the Mouse to justify the expense. I know how lucky I was, and I'll always be grateful that I've been able to do that.

But I'm over the "magic" now. It irritates me every time I see the marketing people use that word to describe how they are enhancing my experience by making it just another step harder to enjoy my visit. So whenever I see that word now, I think of "magic" in the true sense of the word. It's what magicians do when they play tricks on you by using distraction as a tool so you will look at what they do with one hand and not notice what they are really doing with the other.

My grandson wants so badly to go to Disneyworld. All of his older siblings and cousins got to enjoy many trips in the "good old days", and so, for his sake, we've planned an upcoming trip, and I will do my best to make it fun for all. But for the first time I'm not looking forward to the experience. Once he gets a little older, I'm sad, but I'm done.
 
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Oh man the kid on the shoulders in this picture makes me annoyed. That's another thing, if your child is small enough to go on your shoulders can't you hold them for 15 minutes instead of totally destroying the view of the people behind you that thought they had a decent view until the wall went up??? I know it's not that simple but when the person in front of you just grew two feet, there really is no contending with it.

:thumbsup2:thumbsup2 I'm sure it's more comfortable for some having their child on their shoulders rather than on their hip for that duration, but, whatever they tell themselves, in reality, they're passing the difficulty/responsibility onto complete strangers, who (let's face it!) deserve their own view. Negotiating comfortable viewing for a small child or a camera should impact the parent/camera-owner's view primarily.

You can't convince people to care about the people around them, which is a shame, since, ultimately, we're all in this together. The more considerate people are, the nicer the whole environment is for everyone, including them.

It doesn't help that Disney have made their experience more and more competitive for 'guests' and competition doesn't always bring out the best in some, especially expensive competition!!! (I realise that view-blocking has longer been an issue, though.)
 
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Oh man the kid on the shoulders in this picture makes me annoyed. That's another thing, if your child is small enough to go on your shoulders can't you hold them for 15 minutes instead of totally destroying the view of the people behind you that thought they had a decent view until the wall went up??? I know it's not that simple but when the person in front of you just grew two feet, there really is no contending with it.

And it was the entire show, not just the finale.

We've been lucky to see the shows enough that we didn't really care. But feel bad when I see this in front of one and done guests, esp when the line up an hour before, then as soon as it starts........
 
The thing that really gets me with comments like this are how short-sighted they are. People who experience things differently than you still experience them. As a photographer, part of my enjoyment comes from capturing moments (I'm not necessarily doing this with Illuminations or Harmonious - but I have some great fireworks shots from baseball games, Fourth of July, etc and they can make for beautiful canvases in my house). But this is like saying, "Why take a photo of animals on safari - you can just see them?"

People are complaining about those who BLOCK THEIR VIEW because they put their phone high up in the air to film everything. No one cares if you film it, as long as you don't obstruct their view.
 
I don't understand how there can be an argument that this system is not explicitly more fair for everyone.

Really? I think it is quite simple to understand. Say what you will about FP+ but it was certainly more fair because it was free. Genie+ is less fair to those who have less disposable income and simply cannot afford the extra cost. Disney has done a very good job creating a class system where the first class customers (i.e. high income, Deluxe level resorts...) have a much different experience than second or third class customers.

To say everyone is on the same playing field because people can simply learn about Genie+ when they arrive is a stretch as well. The learning curve for all the nuances of the current system is far steeper than the simplicity that was FP+.
 
pretty soon you will have to buy a book of tickets for the rides like we do at Wildwood NJ. We love wildwood
 
Really? I think it is quite simple to understand. Say what you will about FP+ but it was certainly more fair because it was free. Genie+ is less fair to those who have less disposable income and simply cannot afford the extra cost. Disney has done a very good job creating a class system where the first class customers (i.e. high income, Deluxe level resorts...) have a much different experience than second or third class customers.

To say everyone is on the same playing field because people can simply learn about Genie+ when they arrive is a stretch as well. The learning curve for all the nuances of the current system is far steeper than the simplicity that was FP+.
Regarding the FP+ vs. G+ fairness issue:

I cannot tell you how many times I got a FP+ on the day of and not 60 days in advance and how many times I booked a last-minute WDW vacation and was still able to get FP+s for many E ticket rides. People would cancel their FP+s and availability would appear. The same way ADRs become available the day of.

As far as G+ goes, I used it several days of a recent trip a month ago. If we're talking fairness here, G+ costs $15.98/person/day. In the world of fairness, I'm not sure how that's more fair than something that was free. Because, you know, people have different financial situations. If you wanted to, you could say that the Plaid VIP tours are fair because anyone can book them! But, uh, a heckuva lot of us couldn't afford this.

Speaking of fair, for the $15.98/person/day of G+ we often used it for only one attraction in the park we were in that day since by the time the window to make a new reservation opened, the only times available for the attractions we wanted were so late in the day that we wouldn't be in the park anymore at that point. With G+ you cannot pick your time. You have to either get lucky and/or be the kind of parkgoer who stays in the park all day so doesn't care what time G+ gives you. Is that fair?

And no one could possibly convince me that ILL$ are fair. First of all, they favor onsite guests, who can book ILL$ at 7 am, far ahead of off-site guests. Not fair. Plus, ILL$ favor those who don't mind spending even more money on their park day than they've already spent. If you have a family of 4, say, and you buy the ILL$ for RotR, you may've just spent an additional $64 (okay, I rounded up) for one ride.

Yes, sure, you can always use the standby line. But G+ and ILL$ have caused a lot of standby lines to become way way way longer than they were back in the actually fair days when there was no FP+, no G+, no ILL$, and everyone did standby. You could even argue that the lottery system for RotR was incredibly fair since it favored no one. You could have the snazziest smartphone in the world and MDE could kick you out and you lost your chance. You could get lucky and get an early BG for Rise and then the ride would break down and be closed the rest of the day.

I mean, what is fair? I gave info on FP+ to many many other parkgoers through the years and in December I gave info on G+ to many people as well. FP+ was a relatively straightforward system and easy to explain. G+, OTOH, is not straightforward, difficult to grasp the intricacies of, and, besides that, costs $15.98/person/day.

I'm an early riser, so the 7 am aspect of G+ is nothing to me. But having to wrap my head around tactics for every single day of the trip while I'm there is not exactly fun. I don't love RDing, either, but I do it. It still works. And it requires very little knowledge and explanation. But it's unfair too, since it favors onsite guests.

To sum up, to me, the fairness or unfairness aspects of FP+ and G+ are irrelevant.

[Edited to clean up a couple of things.]
 
"All in it was a fantastic trip.
Did I do a huge number of rides - no"

If not doing a ton of rides is your definition of a fantastic trip, then present day WDW is the place for you to go😉.

I noticed that you left out quite a bit of what I posted to make your point 😉. There were at least three decent paragraphs between the two lines you posted, where I detailed the numerous reasons WHY this particular trip around NYE was as good as it was.

"I recently returned from an 8 night trip that started after Christmas and ended on the 3rd. My brother joined me during the trip, and I only had 6 park days ticketed and booked due to that.

All in it was a fantastic trip. I only set an alarm for one morning which was our Studios day, as neither one of us had done Rise before. For that particular day booking LL and Genie+ was worthwhile. On all the other days we just did a regular park visit, and slept in and left for the parks when we were ready. This trip was about enjoying ourselves and the experiences that WDW has available.

I was extremely fortunate in many ways. I had booked a AKL Value studio and got a Savannah view. Wonderful ! As far as the bus wait times I believe my TOTAL wait time for the entire stay was about 30 ~ 40 minutes. For example, after I arrived at the bus stop at Magic Kingdom after the midnight fireworks on the 30th I set a timer - and stopped it 38 seconds later. On NYE at Epcot the bus was waiting at the stop for our resort. I was truly blessed on this trip in this aspect !

I accomplished everything my brother and I wanted to. I did Candlelight processional - had reservations but cancelled them prior to arrival and as it turned out didn't really need them. Did Steakhouse 71 dinner 2X (once with my brother, once solo before he arrived) Space 220 lunch, California Grill ( Perfect fireworks viewing and best experience/meal of our trip! ), Teppan Edo NYE, Boathouse. I'm eating low carb and still managed to enjoy all this and ice cream at the Studios, chocolate at the Magic Kingdom, and Pizza from Blaze Pizza in Disney Springs ( several times ).

Did I do a huge number of rides - no. However, doing a trip during this time of year I've NEVER had the expectation of doing lots of rides simply because the crowds in the park wouldn't have allowed it. I did like that having a park reservation guaranteed my entry into that park that day and that I didn't have to be at a park at park opening. "
 
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People are complaining about those who BLOCK THEIR VIEW because they put their phone high up in the air to film everything. No one cares if you film it, as long as you don't obstruct their view.
No, they weren't. The person I quoted talked about a tripod (which is usually on the ground, especially if it had a SLR and they said nothing about it being in the air). I don't mind if you want to share your opinion; but, don't actively dismiss my experience when I can literally see the words on the screen.
 

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