Vaccine- Autism link proven to be a FRAUD!

[Scurvy]

Yes, hepititus A can definitely be transmitted via food. Several of my classmates got it my senior year of high school, and it was tracked to an employee at the Subway restaurant where lots of students used to go after band or drama practice. One guy was out for the remainder of the year because he was so ill. It's things like this that cause me to not take most of the vocal anti-vaccine people all that seriously. Making an educated decision based on your own child's sensitivities is one thing; making a decision based on conspiracy theories or incorrect information is quite another.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Not all parents that choose not to vaccinate their children are wackos that have no idea what they are talking about.

Some, have done extensive research (books, medical articles from respected journals, consulted w/ their medical providers,etc) on both sides of the issue. They have looked at historical data, researched the diseases including their risks of injury/mortality, the vaccines and their efficacy as well as their risks of injury/mortality.

Then these same parents have looked at their medical history as well as that of their extended family.. looking at the types of diseases that their children may be genetically linked to.

After taking ALL of that into consideration...sometimes these parents decide that vaccinating is the best option for them and their family, others choose to selectively vaccinate (since they have looked up each individual disease/vaccine pair and weighed the info separately), others make the decision to not vaccinate at all. And still others will decide one way and then at some point change that decision based upon events that occur along the way.

Don't assume that all parents that choose a different path than yourself, do so in an uneducated or misdirected way.

At the core of this entire debate, I would like to believe that every parent is doing what they believe is best for THEIR child, THEIR family, in THEIR situation.

You don't know all the ramifications that went into their decision so PLEASE don't berate someone else for doing their homework and making a decision that is different from yours.

 

[Hannathy]

Sorry but when it endangers, my child, my life, and the greater good I'm allowed to.

 

[L-Harper]

I hear life is terminal.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Sorry but when it endangers, my child, my life, and the greater good I'm allowed to.

Ahh but again, you don't know why any specific decision was made. Maybe giving a specific vaccine is MORE of a risk to that child than actually getting the disease. Again YOU DON'T KNOW.

If you don't know... it isn't fair to anyone to receive grief for their decision.

Again... all parents are doing what THEY believe is best for THEIR situation. They aren't obligated to take YOUR situation into account.

 

[Hannathy]

Ahh but again, you don't know why any specific decision was made. Maybe giving a specific vaccine is MORE of a risk to that child than actually getting the disease. Again YOU DON'T KNOW.

If you don't know... it isn't fair to anyone to receive grief for their decision.

Again... all parents are doing what THEY believe is best for THEIR situation. They aren't obligated to take YOUR situation into account.

Like I said early on in this thread if this current generation of me only parents were alive in the past we would still have Polio and a lot of other conditions. I am afraid for this country.

 

[L-Harper]

I have the opinion that the safety of MY child(ren) is more important than "the greater good", as they'd like us to believe. Those of you who look down upon those of us who don't vaccinate should put yourselves in the shoes of a parent who's child had a vaccine injury or even died from a vaccine. For example, if your first child had a severe reaction to a vaccine, would you honestly subject your following children to vaccines... HIGHLY unlikely. My first son was vaccinated up until 6 months and our 2nd son has not been vaccinated at all. I dare anyone to say something stupid to me about why I should vaccinate my boys and put them at risk again because it would maybe help their child or "the greater good".

Also, if you all want to dig into the statistics of vaccine injuries compared to the rate of actually getting any one particular disease... I'm sure you'd be surprised. Children are more likely to get a vaccine injury than most diseases. I have done HOURS of research on vaccines. These statistics are right on the CDC website.

I honestly do not want to offend anyone here. I have the view that parents need to make their own educated decisions about what to or not to do with their children. Don't just follow the herd because that is what everyone else is doing, actually do the research and look at both sides of the issue.

 

[Hannathy]

Also, if you all want to dig into the statistics of vaccine injuries compared to the rate of actually getting any one particular disease... I'm sure you'd be surprised. Children are more likely to get a vaccine injury than most diseases. I have done HOURS of research on vaccines. These statistics are right on the CDC website.

And again that is only that way because of herd immunity and the diseases aren't that prevalent any more. If no one was vaccinated and polio was running rampant the statistics would be the opposite.


And if the only children not getting vaccinated where ones who had had a reaction then it would be negligible but it isn't and that is the problem.

 

[Ava]

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm

This is from a few pages back, but some of the information at this link made me think about a point that has really only been mentioned in passing in this discussion. Read this quote (bolding mine):

I've heard that a child has been found with VDPV. Is this true?

In 2005, a VDPV was found in the stool of an unvaccinated child in the state of Minnesota. The child most likely caught the virus through contact in the community with someone who received live oral vaccine in another country.

Where do vaccine-derived polioviruses come from?

Because OPV has not been used in the United States since 2000, it is likely that any vaccine-derived poliovirus (VDPV) seen in the United States would have come from a person who received OPV in another country. OPV is used in many countries of the world, including Central and South America, Africa, and Asia.

We live in a global world now. People from all over the world come to the United States, and people from the US travel all over the world. Even if you or your children have never traveled overseas, chances are someone you come into contact with has. Your co-worker, your neighbor, a parent of your child's classmate. It's possible that any person you come into contact with has visited or is from a country where diseases we've eradicated are still prevalent, or where they don't have access to the same vaccines that we do.

Let's use an example we're all familiar with - WDW. People from countries all over the globe visit WDW. Now look at the second paragraph I quoted. It's possible that the little Chinese boy your child makes friends with in line has received the live oral version of the polio vaccine. Your child is not vaccinated for polio. Guess what? Your child could contract polio from his new friend.

The odds of something like that happening may be slim, but those odds will increase if more people stop vaccinating. Unless your child has had a previous adverse reaction to a vaccine, or you have a history of vaccine reaction in your family, I feel it's risky & irresponsible not to vaccinate.

Yes, there are risks involved in vaccinating. But I don't think the risks of vaccinating are any different than they risks of giving your child any other medication, or even new foods. There are people with severe, life-threatening reactions to all kinds of things - penicillin & other common drugs, nuts, eggs, & the list goes on. You can't know how you'll react to a medication or a vaccine or a food until you've had it for the first time. I understand being cautious if there is family history involved, but I'd wager that the majority of people who choose not to vaccinate have no family history of adverse reactions to vaccines.

Sorry if this post is kind of rambling, I kept having to leave & come back to it. But I hope I got my points across. I just feel we are sliding down a slippery slope of not vaccinating children because of the "what ifs." There are "what ifs" in every part of life & parenting. However, we can look back at history, or at current conditions in other countries, to see the outcome of epidemics of disease without vaccinations to prevent them.

 

[Leajess99]

My next child will not be vaccinated against MMR, Hep A, Hep B because I witnessed the reaction to MMR with my first. I wouldn't want to put my next child through that. And Hep A and Hep B, my child doesn't fall into the risk categories as I am sure many of yours don't either (men have sex w/ men, drugs, etc.) So, yeah I am not pumping that into their bodies for no reason. I am not vaccinated against Hep A and B, nor is anyone from my generation or my parents and we haven't contracted the disease.

What about separating the vaccines?? I remember once reading that they do have separate Mumps, measles, and rubella vaccines. It may be of help to separate them. I am not against slowly vaccinating kids and for some I can totally understand their reasoning.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

What about separating the vaccines?? I remember once reading that they do have separate Mumps, measles, and rubella vaccines. It may be of help to separate them. I am not against slowly vaccinating kids and for some I can totally understand their reasoning.

This is problem, that vaccine is no longer offered in separate doses. Its all or none. So if my daughter's titer came back that she was immune to measles, mumps but NOT rubella she would have had to have gotten all 3 vaccines even though she was immune to the other 2. She would have received 2 unnecessary vaccines.

There was a mumps outbreak here in Jersey last year. It was the town that I was attending college. It was something like 70% of the infected received 1 dose of MMR, and 85% of the infected had both doses, but still contracted the disease? Don't remember the specific numbers but it was pretty high.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

Not all parents that choose not to vaccinate their children are wackos that have no idea what they are talking about.

Some, have done extensive research (books, medical articles from respected journals, consulted w/ their medical providers,etc) on both sides of the issue. They have looked at historical data, researched the diseases including their risks of injury/mortality, the vaccines and their efficacy as well as their risks of injury/mortality.

Then these same parents have looked at their medical history as well as that of their extended family.. looking at the types of diseases that their children may be genetically linked to.

After taking ALL of that into consideration...sometimes these parents decide that vaccinating is the best option for them and their family, others choose to selectively vaccinate (since they have looked up each individual disease/vaccine pair and weighed the info separately), others make the decision to not vaccinate at all. And still others will decide one way and then at some point change that decision based upon events that occur along the way.

Don't assume that all parents that choose a different path than yourself, do so in an uneducated or misdirected way.

At the core of this entire debate, I would like to believe that every parent is doing what they believe is best for THEIR child, THEIR family, in THEIR situation.

You don't know all the ramifications that went into their decision so PLEASE don't berate someone else for doing their homework and making a decision that is different from yours.

That is what I have been saying, but apparently the choice if made NOT to vaccinate based on what you have said, which is all valid reasons not to is seen as selfish and neglectful.

 

[Leajess99]

My next child will not be vaccinated against MMR, Hep A, Hep B because I witnessed the reaction to MMR with my first. I wouldn't want to put my next child through that. And Hep A and Hep B, my child doesn't fall into the risk categories as I am sure many of yours don't either (men have sex w/ men, drugs, etc.) So, yeah I am not pumping that into their bodies for no reason. I am not vaccinated against Hep A and B, nor is anyone from my generation or my parents and we haven't contracted the disease.

Hep B does not just happen to men who have sex with other men or drugs. I know a child who had to have a blood transfusion and ended up with Hep B. Hep A is easier to transmit from person to person and just look at some of the Hep A outbreaks.

Just look at this McDonald case in which the restaurant was not well kept and 2 employees infected 26 people but exposed 10,000 people - http://www.hepatitisblog.com/hepati...donalds-that-never-really-cleaned-up-its-act/.

Another case was when the green onions were contaminated back in 2003 at ChiChis Restaurant - http://www.marlerclark.com/case_news/view/chi-chis-hepatitis-a-outbreak-pennsylvania/.

There have been many outbreaks associated with restaurants over the years - http://www.about-hepatitis.com/hepatitis_outbreaks.

 

[MommyBell08]

I have the opinion that the safety of MY child(ren) is more important than "the greater good", as they'd like us to believe. Those of you who look down upon those of us who don't vaccinate should put yourselves in the shoes of a parent who's child had a vaccine injury or even died from a vaccine. For example, if your first child had a severe reaction to a vaccine, would you honestly subject your following children to vaccines... HIGHLY unlikely. My first son was vaccinated up until 6 months and our 2nd son has not been vaccinated at all. I dare anyone to say something stupid to me about why I should vaccinate my boys and put them at risk again because it would maybe help their child or "the greater good".

Also, if you all want to dig into the statistics of vaccine injuries compared to the rate of actually getting any one particular disease... I'm sure you'd be surprised. Children are more likely to get a vaccine injury than most diseases. I have done HOURS of research on vaccines. These statistics are right on the CDC website.

I honestly do not want to offend anyone here. I have the view that parents need to make their own educated decisions about what to or not to do with their children. Don't just follow the herd because that is what everyone else is doing, actually do the research and look at both sides of the issue.

Good for you

 

[Ava]

That is what I have been saying, but apparently the choice if made NOT to vaccinate based on what you have said, which is all valid reasons not to is seen as selfish and neglectful.

I think everyone here supports parents who's child had a previous adverse reaction to a vaccine, or who has a family history of vaccine injury, in their decision not to vaccinate. That's been said over & over by the "pro-vaccine" folks on this thread. What is scary and dangerous is parents choosing not to vaccinate for no reason other than they are scared something bad might happen to their child from it (and I personally know more than one parent with this viewpoint). If too many people adopt this thinking, we could end up with outbreaks of diseases that had previously been eradicated in this country. We don't live in a bubble, the decisions of some can affect many.

 

[Leajess99]

This is from a few pages back, but some of the information at this link made me think about a point that has really only been mentioned in passing in this discussion. Read this quote (bolding mine):



We live in a global world now. People from all over the world come to the United States, and people from the US travel all over the world. Even if you or your children have never traveled overseas, chances are someone you come into contact with has. Your co-worker, your neighbor, a parent of your child's classmate. It's possible that any person you come into contact with has visited or is from a country where diseases we've eradicated are still prevalent, or where they don't have access to the same vaccines that we do.

Let's use an example we're all familiar with - WDW. People from countries all over the globe visit WDW. Now look at the second paragraph I quoted. It's possible that the little Chinese boy your child makes friends with in line has received the live oral version of the polio vaccine. Your child is not vaccinated for polio. Guess what? Your child could contract polio from his new friend.

The odds of something like that happening may be slim, but those odds will increase if more people stop vaccinating. Unless your child has had a previous adverse reaction to a vaccine, or you have a history of vaccine reaction in your family, I feel it's risky & irresponsible not to vaccinate.

Yes, there are risks involved in vaccinating. But I don't think the risks of vaccinating are any different than they risks of giving your child any other medication, or even new foods. There are people with severe, life-threatening reactions to all kinds of things - penicillin & other common drugs, nuts, eggs, & the list goes on. You can't know how you'll react to a medication or a vaccine or a food until you've had it for the first time. I understand being cautious if there is family history involved, but I'd wager that the majority of people who choose not to vaccinate have no family history of adverse reactions to vaccines.

Sorry if this post is kind of rambling, I kept having to leave & come back to it. But I hope I got my points across. I just feel we are sliding down a slippery slope of not vaccinating children because of the "what ifs." There are "what ifs" in every part of life & parenting. However, we can look back at history, or at current conditions in other countries, to see the outcome of epidemics of disease without vaccinations to prevent them.

The bolded part is true. My mom is allergic to codeine, my sister is allergic to sulfa drugs, I am allergic to penicillin, and my brother has no allergy. My kids are not currently allergic to any medicine and to say I was scared when I first gave the them a cillin medicine is not an exaggeration. I knew what my medical records and my mom told me my reaction to penicillin was and I was so scared. The kids had no problems at all.

While there is a chance, there isn't a guarantee either.

 

[tlbwriter]

Those of you who look down upon those of us who don't vaccinate should put yourselves in the shoes of a parent who's child had a vaccine injury or even died from a vaccine.

Actually, many pro-vac posters are agreeing with you. They're saying children who can't/shouldn't be vaccinated are protected to some extent by herd immunity, but herd immunity will go away when more parents whose children do not have specific risk factors choose not to vaccinate.

 

[princessmom29]

I have the opinion that the safety of MY child(ren) is more important than "the greater good", as they'd like us to believe. Those of you who look down upon those of us who don't vaccinate should put yourselves in the shoes of a parent who's child had a vaccine injury or even died from a vaccine. For example, if your first child had a severe reaction to a vaccine, would you honestly subject your following children to vaccines... HIGHLY unlikely. My first son was vaccinated up until 6 months and our 2nd son has not been vaccinated at all. I dare anyone to say something stupid to me about why I should vaccinate my boys and put them at risk again because it would maybe help their child or "the greater good".

Also, if you all want to dig into the statistics of vaccine injuries compared to the rate of actually getting any one particular disease... I'm sure you'd be surprised. Children are more likely to get a vaccine injury than most diseases. I have done HOURS of research on vaccines. These statistics are right on the CDC website.

I honestly do not want to offend anyone here. I have the view that parents need to make their own educated decisions about what to or not to do with their children. Don't just follow the herd because that is what everyone else is doing, actually do the research and look at both sides of the issue.

Herein lies the problem. You are making the decision you feel is best for your children right now. Would you honestly make the same decision if NO ONE else was vaccianting and there was no mass immunity to protect your children? You are counting on others to do the right thing so that your children can be protected with no risk to them. If everyone thought like you, no one's children would be safe. Taht is why EVERONE has a voice in this and it is not an issue where "your child, your choice" should apply. What one parent chooses effects the safety of everyone else's children, but apparently there are those out there that just don't care. For those who son't care aboiut the grater good, when enough people start thinking like you, it is going to end up putting everyone's children, including yours, at risk. It is not something I can keep quiet about and sit back and say your child your choice, becuase YOUR choice is putting MY child at risk. Disregarding the grater good for the safety of your own children will eventually come back to bite you, with drastic consequences.

 

[princessmom29]

Not all parents that choose not to vaccinate their children are wackos that have no idea what they are talking about.

Some, have done extensive research (books, medical articles from respected journals, consulted w/ their medical providers,etc) on both sides of the issue. They have looked at historical data, researched the diseases including their risks of injury/mortality, the vaccines and their efficacy as well as their risks of injury/mortality.

Then these same parents have looked at their medical history as well as that of their extended family.. looking at the types of diseases that their children may be genetically linked to.

After taking ALL of that into consideration...sometimes these parents decide that vaccinating is the best option for them and their family, others choose to selectively vaccinate (since they have looked up each individual disease/vaccine pair and weighed the info separately), others make the decision to not vaccinate at all. And still others will decide one way and then at some point change that decision based upon events that occur along the way.

Don't assume that all parents that choose a different path than yourself, do so in an uneducated or misdirected way.

At the core of this entire debate, I would like to believe that every parent is doing what they believe is best for THEIR child, THEIR family, in THEIR situation.

You don't know all the ramifications that went into their decision so PLEASE don't berate someone else for doing their homework and making a decision that is different from yours.

But they are NOT. Many, many people make the decision not to vaccinate based on emotion, hearsay, or bad information. We have seen lots of all of this posted here, and little solid fact. The decisons people make on this don't just effect thier children, they effect us all. Once enough people choose not to vaccinate, we will ALL be at risk, so we all have a vested interest in seeing as many children vaccinated as possible so that NO CHILD has to suffer needlessly. Children who have a condition that indicates not vaccinating are protected by the mass immunity of everyone else. Yes, ther are rare tragic cases of a child with no prior indicators having major complications from a vaccine, but that is true for any drug, or food for that manner, and none of us have resorted to tube feeding our kids. My problem is not with anyone who has a valid reason for not vaccinating a child, but with those who do so with the attitdue that they are not willingto take the miniscule risk of a complication. They are counting on mass immunity to protect their child. If enough poeple take this route, then ther will be no mass immunity ot do that, and EVERYONE is then at risk.

 

[Minniemouse07]

But they are NOT. Many, many people make the decision not to vaccinate based on emotion, hearsay, or bad information. We have seen lots of all of this posted here, and little solid fact. The decisons people make on this don't just effect thier children, they effect us all. Once enough people choose not to vaccinate, we will ALL be at risk, so we all have a vested interest in seeing as many children vaccinated as possible so that NO CHILD has to suffer needlessly. Children who have a condition that indicates not vaccinating are protected by the mass immunity of everyone else. Yes, ther are rare tragic cases of a child with no prior indicators having major complications from a vaccine, but that is true for any drug, or food for that manner, and none of us have resorted to tube feeding our kids. My problem is not with anyone who has a valid reason for not vaccinating a child, but with those who do so with the attitdue that they are not willingto take the miniscule risk of a complication. They are counting on mass immunity to protect their child. If enough poeple take this route, then ther will be no mass immunity ot do that, and EVERYONE is then at risk.

I NEVER said that every parent makes the choice based upon a tragic event...what I said is that not every parent that has chosen the less than traditional path has done so without great amounts of thought and research.

Yes there probably are those that read one or two internet sites and said I'm not doing anything, but IME most parents that have chosen to either selectively vaccinate or not vaccinate at all did so after multiple hours of research (some 20-30 if not more) and countless hours of thought and discussion.

Not everyone agrees about everything. I could pull up study after study that will show pro or con about almost any vaccination topic...even the "experts" aren't in agreement on this.

If they can't agree...there is no way a bunch of WDW aficionados are going to agree about it!

...in regard to the herd immunity thing. Yes, in a perfect world vaccines would be 100% safe and effective, everyone would get them, and we would achieve herd immunity.

Unfortunately, the safety and efficacy of vaccines is what is under debate. There are some data that says vaccines are safe and efficacious, other data disagree (see above where I point out that there are studies that will show either side).

Some parents have decided that the safe and efficacious data are correct and others believe the data that says vaccines aren't safe and efficacious.

If you are a parent that believes they are safe, then you want herd immunity. You believe that the vaccine will protect your child and want every child around you to assist in that protection.

Unfortunately, those parents that don't believe that vaccines are safe and efficacious (again, pointing out that data are available supporting BOTH sides) are making their decision to protect their child. Yes, I understand that by them protecting their child it messes up the other parent's sphere of protection...but this is what they TRULY believe....and really, you aren't going to find a parent that is altruistic enough to place their child in harms way (again they TRULY believe it is dangerous), just to protect someone else's child.

It just isn't going to happen.

Here is an example. If I told you that by placing YOUR child on the train tracks every day for 30 minutes was going to save the lives of people in your neighborhood... would you do it?

What if I changed that to may or may not save people?

Would you do your research, find out why placing your child on the train tracks would protect everyone? Would you look up all the train schedules so you could find the 30min window when no trains were planning to be there?

Or would you maybe do the research, find it flawed, then look at the person like they were a four headed octopus from space and tell them they were nuts and no way were you letting your child on the train tracks?

Yes I understand that it is a clumsy analogy but it is essentially that these parents truly believe that the vaccines could be just as dangerous as standing on the train tracks. It doesn't matter what YOU believe to be true, or what the CDC or AAP is saying, that is what these parents believe, so they aren't going to change their minds and put their kids on the tracks.

So we are at an impasse.

Everyone is doing what they believe is the right thing.