Vaccine- Autism link proven to be a FRAUD!

[pospisil]

!!! BREAD IS DANGEROUS !!!

Research on bread indicates that:

1. More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread users.

2. Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests.

3. In the 18th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 50 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, yellow fever, and influenza ravaged whole nations.

4. More than 90 percent of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread.

5. Bread is made from a substance called "dough." It has been proven that as little as one pound of dough can be used to suffocate a mouse. The average American eats more bread than that in one month!

6. Primitive tribal societies that have no bread exhibit a low incidence of cancer, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's disease, and osteoporosis.

7. Bread has been proven to be addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and given only water to eat begged for bread after as little as two days.

8. Bread is often a "gateway" food item, leading the user to "harder" items such as butter, jelly, peanut butter, and even cold cuts.

9. Bread has been proven to absorb water. Since the human body is more than 90 percent water, it follows that eating bread could lead to your body being taken over by this absorptive food product, turning you into a soggy, gooey bread-pudding person.

10. Newborn babies can choke on bread.

11. Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit! That kind of heat can kill an adult in less than one minute.

12. Most American bread eaters are utterly unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling.

In light of these frightening statistics, it has been proposed that the following bread restrictions be made:

1. No sale of bread to minors.

2. A nationwide "Just Say No To Toast" campaign, complete celebrity TV spots and bumper stickers.

3. A 300 percent federal tax on all bread to pay for all the societal ills we might associate with bread.

4. No animal or human images, nor any primary colors (which may appeal to children) may be used to promote bread usage.

5. The establishment of "Bread-free" zones around schools.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

!!! BREAD IS DANGEROUS !!!

Research on bread indicates that:

1. More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread users.

2. Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests.

3. In the 18th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 50 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, yellow fever, and influenza ravaged whole nations.

4. More than 90 percent of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread.

5. Bread is made from a substance called "dough." It has been proven that as little as one pound of dough can be used to suffocate a mouse. The average American eats more bread than that in one month!

6. Primitive tribal societies that have no bread exhibit a low incidence of cancer, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's disease, and osteoporosis.

7. Bread has been proven to be addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and given only water to eat begged for bread after as little as two days.

8. Bread is often a "gateway" food item, leading the user to "harder" items such as butter, jelly, peanut butter, and even cold cuts.

9. Bread has been proven to absorb water. Since the human body is more than 90 percent water, it follows that eating bread could lead to your body being taken over by this absorptive food product, turning you into a soggy, gooey bread-pudding person.

10. Newborn babies can choke on bread.

11. Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit! That kind of heat can kill an adult in less than one minute.

12. Most American bread eaters are utterly unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling.

In light of these frightening statistics, it has been proposed that the following bread restrictions be made:

1. No sale of bread to minors.

2. A nationwide "Just Say No To Toast" campaign, complete celebrity TV spots and bumper stickers.

3. A 300 percent federal tax on all bread to pay for all the societal ills we might associate with bread.

4. No animal or human images, nor any primary colors (which may appeal to children) may be used to promote bread usage.

5. The establishment of "Bread-free" zones around schools.

I have a degree in math and work in a profession where I deal with statistics. As the saying goes, there's lies, damn lies, and statistics. It's unfortunate that so many people can be misled by the use of statistics and cannot discern fact from fraud.

 

[tlbwriter]

There is also no absolute scientific evidence that vaccines are not linked to autism.

Well, you're asking to prove a negative, which is usually not possible. The scientific community generally considers it adequate to show that one can not prove there IS a link. Because if there was a link, someone would be able to prove it. How would you suggest someone prove there is no link? Beyond, of course, the studies showing that statistically, autism rates are no greater in vaccinated populations than in non-vaccinated populations? What other evidence could there be? A group of anecdotes is not evidence, because I could very easily find the same number of anecdotes that do not support your theory.

 

[princessmom29]

Big pharma does not make money on vaccinesYou are sadly very naive. You really need to start educating yourself beyond the mainstream media dialect. Unfortuanatly the most educated people do not have any critical thinking skills. By the way my kids have had all the major vaccines. Some of us are capable of seeing both sides and looking at things on deeper level. Do I think vaccines are safe no, but there are some disease such as polio I thought the risk was worth it. Would I give my kids the flu shot or chicken pox or hep b. Not in a million years. Not worth the risk. Like I said before if you don't think there is big money in vaccines you need to stop getting your education from msnbc and fox news.

Obviously YOU have not done your research using reputible sources or actual numbers because I have seen them when wouking on grant funding proposals. The profit margin on vaccines is almost non-existant and getting smaller, which is why more and more American pham companies have stopped producing them.

Keep it going ladies. I'm so glad to see the personal attacks flying now, maybe this thread will get shut down quicker. I might as well put in my two sense, the know-it-all(ness) and condescension from the vaxxers on this thread is appalling. Don't start calling "boo hoo" on the personal attacks when those with differing opinions were called "stupid" by some of you from the get-go.
Say whatever you like, but your opinion is exactly that...an opinion because after 8 years of solid research that is what mine is, apparently to you.

NO one has called anyone stupid here. Just because YOU have a problem with what is being said you want the thread shut down so no one else can see it. Nice.

Well, you're asking to prove a negative, which is usually not possible. The scientific community generally considers it adequate to show that one can not prove there IS a link. Because if there was a link, someone would be able to prove it. How would you suggest someone prove there is no link? Beyond, of course, the studies showing that statistically, autism rates are no greater in vaccinated populations than in non-vaccinated populations? What other evidence could there be? A group of anecdotes is not evidence, because I could very easily find the same number of anecdotes that do not support your theory.

Exactly. You cannot prove a negative, and after extensive research by many different groups of scientists, no one can prove a link. In fact they find that NO evidence exists for a causal link between vaccines and autism. That is sufficient in the scientific community to prove that one doesn't exist. The [rpblem is that some refuse to believe what is staring them in the face. It has happened before in history. Many have been killed for propsing something that is now accepted as scientific fact.

 

[crisi]

It does not mean it doesn't. This thread is nothing but opinion. Nobody really knows. By the way your ice cream analogy is really stupid and insulting to anybody that has a kid with autism.

I think you are mistaking opinion with "theories established through repeatable scientific studies and found to be statistically valid or invalid."

Could these studies be wrong? Possibly, science keeps that door open. But Wakefield's results were NEVER repeated and we now know his sample size was insignificant and his data faked. In the following years many many people tried to replicate his results without success.

I don't think people who believe this are stupid. I do think they are scientifically illiterate and dangerous. 624 people have died in the past five years of vaccine preventable illness. 73,205 have been ill.


On another topic...
The flu and chickenpox do kill, btw. Chickenpox tends to be minor if you get it when a kid, but it's much riskier as an adult. It often leads to sterility in males if contracted post puberty. Since many kids are vaccinated - but its still optional and was released during the heydey of the "don't vaccinate" movement, chicken pox may be one people who don't vaccinate will regret. Herd immunity keeps most people from getting measles, but chicken pox we don't yet have great herd immunity. It is, however, better than it used to be so it no longer is the case the the entire first grade is out sick at the same time. If kids don't get it before they are twelve - especially boys - some people might want to rethink the risks of chicken poxs post puberty and get the vaccine.

 

[clanmcculloch]

It does not mean it doesn't. This thread is nothing but opinion. Nobody really knows. By the way your ice cream analogy is really stupid and insulting to anybody that has a kid with autism.

Please do not presume that you can speak for me. I'm a parent of a child with autism and I happen to agree with the ice cream analogy. If you wish to state that YOU are insulted by something then say that; don't say that everybody in a certain category will feel the same way that you do.

 

[jodifla]

I think you are mistaking opinion with "theories established through repeatable scientific studies and found to be statistically valid or invalid."

Could these studies be wrong? Possibly, science keeps that door open. But Wakefield's results were NEVER repeated and we now know his sample size was insignificant and his data faked. In the following years many many people tried to replicate his results without success.

I don't think people who believe this are stupid. I do think they are scientifically illiterate and dangerous. 624 people have died in the past five years of vaccine preventable illness. 73,205 have been ill.


On another topic...
The flu and chickenpox do kill, btw. Chickenpox tends to be minor if you get it when a kid, but it's much riskier as an adult. It often leads to sterility in males if contracted post puberty. Since many kids are vaccinated - but its still optional and was released during the heydey of the "don't vaccinate" movement, chicken pox may be one people who don't vaccinate will regret. Herd immunity keeps most people from getting measles, but chicken pox we don't yet have great herd immunity. It is, however, better than it used to be so it no longer is the case the the entire first grade is out sick at the same time. If kids don't get it before they are twelve - especially boys - some people might want to rethink the risks of chicken poxs post puberty and get the vaccine.

And mumps is another one that can lead to sterility in males. Some of these boys are going to likely be very sorry their parents made the decision not to protect them against these diseases.

My father had mumps as a 30something adult. He was SO sick, and he'd had mumps once before, on the other side. And he never had a biological child of his own.

 

[Hannathy]

And mumps is another one that can lead to sterility in males. Some of these boys are going to likely be very sorry their parents made the decision not to protect them against these diseases.

My father had mumps as a 30something adult. He was SO sick, and he'd had mumps once before, on the other side. And he never had a biological child of his own.

Yep you beat me to it!

And Mumps is one of the M's in the MMR which seems to be a very popular one for the anti-vacs to shun.

 

[crisi]

And mumps is another one that can lead to sterility in males. Some of these boys are going to likely be very sorry their parents made the decision not to protect them against these diseases.

My father had mumps as a 30something adult. He was SO sick, and he'd had mumps once before, on the other side. And he never had a biological child of his own.

The thing with mumps is that we do have pretty good herd immunity towards mumps. It isn't likely to be the case (in most areas of the country) that mumps hits a freshman dorm and takes out all the unvaccinated kids. Its more likely that will happen with chicken pox, since fewer parents have chosen to vaccinate.

Also, people who have had chicken pox should still get the vaccine - especially as they get older. It tends to respawn itself at some point (often when you are over 60) as shingles - which can be very painful.

 

[palavra]

There is also no absolute scientific evidence that vaccines are not linked to autism. It goes both ways. There seems to be too many parents seeing a timing pattern to be just happenstance. I don't believe in happenstances. I also know how much money is invloved in vaccines, who is behind it, and where the money goes. You are obviously very passionate about your view. It pays your bills. You may get some kickbacks out of it. I still say disregarding parents point of view is very arrogant. I wish you luck. I hope some day you will expand your research and open your mind to the other side. The world is not black and white. There is a lot of grey areas.

But you can't prove a negative. It is virtually impossible to prove that vaccines have nothing to do with autism because a child does not live in a vacuum. You can't negate all the other factors that might have something to do with autism.
These parents often see a timing pattern because of the power of suggestion. It has been suggested, due to things such as this fraudulent study, that vaccines can cause autism. What is a parent were told that chocolate milkshakes might cause autism? You can bet there would be all kinds of parents who would say something like about noticing a child's symptoms shortly after they had a chocolate milkshake.

Facts are facts, and there aren't gray areas in factual situations. There really are only three possibilities here. 1. vaccines cause autism 2. vaccines do not cause autism. 3 vaccines can precipitate the onset of autism in a child that was already genetically predisposed to autism.

I am not in any way trying to be insulting to someone whose child has autism. My daughter has ADHD and and a sensory disorder. She was tested for Asberger's syndrome, which is on the autism spectrum. I cannot imagine how difficult emotionally and physically it must be for families who have autistic children. One of the things that I most hope will come from this from the exposure of this fraudulent study is that research can now go forward on the real causes of autism.

 

[MistressMerryweather]

NO one has called anyone stupid here. Just because YOU have a problem with what is being said you want the thread shut down so no one else can see it. Nice.

Obviously you missed my quotes of the offenders from only the first few pages. Saying that "you can't cure stupid", I would definitely presume is calling someone stupid.
I don't have a problem with what is being said in this thread, I have a problem with the condescending disrespectful way it's being said. I have an open mind and I deal with all sides, and what a crock. I have no problem with others seeing this thread. Unlike you, I am open minded. I am not so far wrapped into fear that I refuse to see any other side...whether to disagree or not.

 

[Scurvy]

Lets hope the mods shut this down. I think they should stick to disney topics on this board. These kind of boards always get out of hand. Its difficult for people including myself to keep the sarcasm and jabs under control when they feel strongly about something. enough said.

I always wonder why people bother to post repeatedly on a thread that they feel ought to be shut down and that they think doesn't belong on these boards. Wouldn't it make more sense just to not post and let the thread die off?

There were also nasty emails sent to a person responding on this thread with an opposite opinion than yours and others. There are more examples, those are just from the first few pages. I don't have time to scan the whole thread at once, though I have read from the beginning.

Am I the only one who finds it funny that one of the people quoted as having called anti-vaccination people stupid was actually defending anti-vaccination people? She was basically saying saying that they weren't stupid enough to base their opinion on the fraudulent study, and that they actually tend to have well thought out reasons for their opinion. I guess she shouldn't have bothered.

 

[MistressMerryweather]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that one of the people quoted as having called anti-vaccination people stupid was actually defending anti-vaccination people? She was basically saying saying that they weren't stupid enough to base their opinion on the fraudulent study, and that they actually tend to have well thought out reasons for their opinion. I guess she shouldn't have bothered.

Oh, dear...that's so funny. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (read sarcasm) What I said is that this thread is littered with condescension and disrespect. I said, "keep the personal attacks coming "ladies". That would apply to both sides.

 

[Scurvy]

Oh, dear...that's so funny. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (read sarcasm) What I said is that this thread is littered with condescension and disrespect. I said, "keep the personal attacks coming "ladies". That would apply to both sides.

Sarcasm? How disrepectful.

 

[MistressMerryweather]

Sarcasm? How disrepectful.

It seems the only thing most of you can understand.

 

[SueM in MN]

I was born in 1960 and like all those of my age group, am vaccinated against small pox. I have the scar on my upper left arm to prove it. I don't get why they stopped vaccinating against it. My sons (24 and 27) aren't vaccinated either and that is a concern to me as it was a vaccine with very few side effects. Once again, I know of no one that I knew that had any reaction to it.

One of the big reasons they stopped giving the Smallpox vaccine was that the disease was eliminated as a naturally occurring disease. Because of that, the small chance of a reaction was bigger than the chance of getting the disease (risk was greater than benefit).

I think you are mistaking opinion with "theories established through repeatable scientific studies and found to be statistically valid or invalid."

Could these studies be wrong? Possibly, science keeps that door open. But Wakefield's results were NEVER repeated and we now know his sample size was insignificant and his data faked. In the following years many many people tried to replicate his results without success.

I don't think people who believe this are stupid. I do think they are scientifically illiterate and dangerous. 624 people have died in the past five years of vaccine preventable illness. 73,205 have been ill.


On another topic...
The flu and chickenpox do kill, btw. Chickenpox tends to be minor if you get it when a kid, but it's much riskier as an adult. It often leads to sterility in males if contracted post puberty. Since many kids are vaccinated - but its still optional and was released during the heydey of the "don't vaccinate" movement, chicken pox may be one people who don't vaccinate will regret. Herd immunity keeps most people from getting measles, but chicken pox we don't yet have great herd immunity. It is, however, better than it used to be so it no longer is the case the the entire first grade is out sick at the same time. If kids don't get it before they are twelve - especially boys - some people might want to rethink the risks of chicken poxs post puberty and get the vaccine.

Most of the links I have to the stories discrediting Wakefield’s ‘studies’ are on Medical Journal and Medical field websites that require a log in.
I found one on briandeer.com (he is the investigative reporter who brought the whole incident to public attention) - you can click to see the different parts of the report .
Some of the information about Wakefield’s faked studies is in this thread already, but even more in the 3 articles by Brian Deer:

• - Wakefield’s ‘study’ of 12 children was meant to prove the existence of a bowel condition called autistic enterocolitis (AE). Other researchers trying to prove or disprove his claim in larger well done studies found that children with autism are no more likely to have bowel problems than other children who do not have autism.
• - Wakefield was planning to develop and market a diagnostic test for AE (which he claimed his study showed was found in children with autism). The marketing plans for his products existed before the ‘study' was completed.
• - The diagnostic test was estimated to bring in yearly sales of 28 million pounds (43 million US dollars).
• - One of the planned uses of the test was marketing to parents who were planning lawsuits against drug companies and the work was actually funded by a lawyer who hoped to use the information in lawsuits against the vaccine companies that made MMR vaccine.
• - Another planned use for the test was to prove which children tested positive for AE so that they could get immunotherapeutic medications (which were also being developed by Wakefield.)
• - Wakefield also had plans for a ‘safer’ MMR vaccine.
• - The articles by Deer claim that Wakefield’s work was meant to discredit and cause fear of the MMR vaccine because that was the only way his companies would make money.
• - A study of 12 people could serve as a pilot study to prepare for future larger studies, but Mr. Wakefield's test subjects were not chosen in a random way which is needed for a valid study. Although his study report said they were consecutive patients who were referred to the GI service, they were not.
• - Deer’s investigations found that the facility he was working at offered Mr. Wakefield a year’s paid leave of absence to try to replicate his study with a careful study of 150 patients. He never did the study and claimed the reason was “academic freedom."

 

[princessmom29]

Obviously you missed my quotes of the offenders from only the first few pages. Saying that "you can't cure stupid", I would definitely presume is calling someone stupid.
I don't have a problem with what is being said in this thread, I have a problem with the condescending disrespectful way it's being said. I have an open mind and I deal with all sides, and what a crock. I have no problem with others seeing this thread. Unlike you, I am open minded. I am not so far wrapped into fear that I refuse to see any other side...whether to disagree or not.

Presuming is your problem here. You are presuming way too much. "you can't fix stupid" is the tag line of a very popular comedian. I dson't think that poster ment to actually call anyone stupid, but rather to reference that particular comedian's act, which, strangely enough, mirrors this thread.