New pamphlet handed out yesterday...3/3/2012

[sharadoc]

I have used an ECV when I was having really rough arthritis flare-ups, but I have since learned to do a lot of preventative medication and steroids in advance, so have not used an ECV since 2010 but I always know it's there for me. so, I'll respond as if I'm a user.

How dare you Disney!

Now, I wonder if some young management type in Florida monitors discussion boards and is using the same sort of "math" that is used in polls. Like take the opinion of a couple hundred people and extrapolate that into a general population opinion.

So, if you look at our DISboards hot topics, what's been done:
1. Using old refillable mugs - instituting a chip system
2. Using old Fastpasses - no more!
3. Expecting room discounts - none, less or limited times
4. ECV users run people over, take advantage of the system - rule pamphlet

I'm sure there's other things that I've missed, but it really feels like all of the complaining and entitlement that goes on here seems to really impacting our lives, and not in a good way.

Or I think we're more important than we really are

 

[bouncycat]

Ok, have to comment again, not on the pamphlet, but what I witnessed yesterday. My step daughter is down from Jacksonville for her spring break this week, so we took her to Sea World yesterday. They are VERY nice dealing with people in chairs, the one thing I noticed that they were lacking was sitting people in the shows in chairs. That part was like a free for all, especially at the shamu show.

Anyways, on the way out of the sea lion show, we witnessed an older lady on a SW rented scooter run over a little boy. She just kept driving while her party with her tried to get her to stop. She kept going faster. Now, I know we all have these stories, but let me share what I saw after the fact. The mom blew her top, of course, but stopped before the F bomb came out, and then I didn't see her again. The old lady was in front of me, and after they got the kid up, she wouldn't move! She was terrified after that incident, that she just wanted out of the chair. Se went slowly out of the show area, and we followed. Saw her a bit later, and she was still shaking. I don't know if this kid walked in front of her, and when she realized the hit was imminent, she panicked, I don't know. But the poor woman was really sorry, and shaken up about it. Her family was rubbing her back and consoling her. Which at that point, I was glad she had someone there to help get the shakies out.

I know when i hit my DH's foot, I felt SOOO bad. I had a friend and her hubby with our family, and she reads these boards, my first word was "rental" And we felt pretty bad for the child, but he didn't seem to be hurt too bad. The chairs that are rented from the parks are big, and probably the heaviest ones you wll come across. My chair weighs a whopping 75lbs empty. Add my 190 lbs, and yea, it can cause some damage. But come on, how many of us run people totally over where they're on the floor? I may clip a foot, or the back of a foot, and it's not a big deal. I practice with my chairs before I take them to the parks so I know what my machine is capable of. These people just getting their chair that morning, a bunch have been on chairs before, but I know the few that I have been on, they all have a different feel. Anyways, just wanted to share what we saw. We hardly ever seen it from a third party, and we felt bad for the poor old woman.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Also keep in mind not everyone is expecting an ECV to come up behind them. It's just like at home the one thing I can't stand is someone who honks a horn at you from an ECV or yells at you move out of the way as if they are more important then you. People in ECV's need to look out for pedestrians not the other way around.

If you are in Disney you should expect an ECV to come up behind you. You should also not walk backwards unless you look first.

Sometimes they are honking or yelling at you because you are walking like a drunk person and they are trying to let you know to "please stop stepping in front of me again and again". Walk straight and we both will be safer. Or maybe they are saying " Do you really have to walk 4 breast with your group. I am one person and I really would like to pass you so that you don't stop suddenly in front of me again so that you can read your park map".


All guests need to look out for each other! More people need to take some personal responsibility. "I don't need to watch for you" is the exact attitude that creates problems.
BTW-It is scary enough in this day and age worrying about some money grubbing nut case who may suddenly step front of an ECV them blame the driver for being hit. Thank Goodness that a lot of cameras are around to help prevent this. If anyone tried this stunt on me they would face a big time counter suit. Maybe for defamation , extortion, or aggravation of my condition. (And I am a person who does not believe in BS lawsuits over minor injuries.)

I agree with you that all guest need to look out for you but also people in ECV need to realize they do not always have the right of way. There may be times when someone can't get out of the way of an ECV, because of something in front of them or someone else doing something stupid in front of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjSwL-9Bzf8

for example in the above video from Youtube are people supposed to make way and push other people so that the person in the ECV can get by?

 

[Friendly Frog]

I agree with you that all guest need to look out for you but also people in ECV need to realize they do not always have the right of way. There may be times when someone can't get out of the way of an ECV, because of something in front of them or someone else doing something stupid in front of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjSwL-9Bzf8

for example in the above video from Youtube are people supposed to make way and push other people so that the person in the ECV can get by?

Great Example.

I think the first thing most people, (and both of us) see is an ECV user who is constantly on a very annoying horn! Not a pleasant sound.

BUT, you see her as someone trying to push her way through the crowd and expecting people to make way for her.I see a person who is trying to stay with her other party on the ECV in front of her. I see someone who is using the horn in an attempt to keep people from placing themselves between two moving ECVs!

I know for a fact that people are CONSTANTLY stepping in front of ECV's at a busy park exit. ( Seriously, some walkers are like moths to a flame when they walk next to an ECV) I have seen them JUMP OVER the front of moving ECV's to get to a faster moving section of a crowd! The only reason IMO that you are not seeing that here is because she IS on that annoying horn.


Anyway, TURN OFF THE SOUND on the video. Now watch again and notice has she is following the path of the other ECV? She is also only moving at crowd speed. As guests coming in pass her you see at approx 0:07 someone stop in the middle of the road, but focus on the far left side and she is still at the same speed as the other guests. At at approx 012, pay attention to the people on the far left, the lady in the green shirt, still same low speed. You will see her move slightly right to avoid the two women holding hands, but once she passes them, she returned to her spot directly behind the other ecv. At no point do you see the user trying to push around people. Again, I see the horn as being used to keep people from stepping out between the two ECV'S.

(Sadly, I also think that if this woman had looked like a model, some of the people on you tube might have felt a little different about what she is doing.)

 

[BroganMc]

Great Example.

I think the first thing most people, (and both of us) see is an ECV user who is constantly on a very annoying horn! Not a pleasant sound.

BUT, you see her as someone trying to push her way through the crowd and expecting people to make way for her.I see a person who is trying to stay with her other party on the ECV in front of her. I see someone who is using the horn in an attempt to keep people from placing themselves between two moving ECVs!

I know for a fact that people are CONSTANTLY stepping in front of ECV's at a busy park exit. ( Seriously, some walkers are like moths to a flame when they walk next to an ECV) I have seen them JUMP OVER the front of moving ECV's to get to a faster moving section of a crowd! The only reason IMO that you are not seeing that here is because she IS on that annoying horn.


Anyway, TURN OFF THE SOUND on the video. Now watch again and notice has she is following the path of the other ECV? She is also only moving at crowd speed. As guests coming in pass her you see at approx 0:07 someone stop in the middle of the road, but focus on the far left side and she is still at the same speed as the other guests. At at approx 012, pay attention to the people on the far left, the lady in the green shirt, still same low speed. You will see her move slightly right to avoid the two women holding hands, but once she passes them, she returned to her spot directly behind the other ecv. At no point do you see the user trying to push around people. Again, I see the horn as being used to keep people from stepping out between the two ECV'S.

(Sadly, I also think that if this woman had looked like a model, some of the people on you tube might have felt a little different about what she is doing.)

Oh dear heaven, I wanted to smack some of those pedestrians so badly. Did you see how close they were getting to her ECV? Those two ladies at the end hovering over her were far too close for comfort. When people are crowding around me that bad, I usually get whacked in the head with a purse or backpack. Nothing worse than getting whacked with someone's heavy turtle-shell backpack bursting to the gills with snacks and souvenirs.

Reminds me of the NYE I tried to get through EPCOT's World Showcase to the International Gateway after early bird fireworks. The crowd came to a standstill with people coming out and going in. No one could move forward at all. Instead people just kept getting closer and closer to each other.

I had horrible time trying to protect my joystick from those swinging backpacks. One lady rammed my hand so hard, I had to push off and let the joystick go to a "dead man stop" to save the people in front of me.

Then one particularly brilliant pedestrian latches onto the handlebars behind me and decides he's going to use me as a battering ram. "Just push through them!" he barks at me, mindless to the fact that my feet would get crushed along with all the other pedestrians he wanted to mow down.

Then whenever I had a little space around me to move, those same pedestrians filled up the gap and glared at me.

I swore off ever leaving a park during the grand exodus times. Now I wait until the crowd leaves before I move. Better to have security chase me out than get crushed to death.

Sorry but that video does not make pedestrians look good. ECV lady was doing what she could to keep moving and warn others of her presence. The last thing you want a wheelie to do in a crowd is to stay put. Then they become a brick wall people crash into.

Worst collision I ever had was in a crush like that but in front of the Castle. I was going with the crowd and trying to stay close to my dad's ECV. I had my foot touching his bumper to keep people from cutting between us. We are moving at a snail's pace, slower than the pedestrians because the pedestrians kept sucking up all the available space. Well one "princess" decides she's going to be a salmon swimming upstream against the crowd and dragging her little kid behind her. She approaches me at a diagonal and puts hee precious foot between my wheels and stops. Only warning I had was the "bump" I felt as my wheel landed on her toe. I immediately stopped and that put me unfortunately right on her foot. So I tried to get off as quickly as possible. I apologized profusely and asked about her injury. I honestly didn't mean to hurt her and had no idea she was going to approach me like that. She glares at me and chews me out for driving recklessly. I lost my compassion then.

Pedestrians need to be taught that you cannot walk that close to an ECV or powerchair. Sometimes the only way they learn is to get run over or clipped.

Reckless driving is when you speed fast into a crowd and knock people down. Honking your horn or trying to move with a crowd is normal behavior.

 

[SueM in MN]

Great Example.

I think the first thing most people, (and both of us) see is an ECV user who is constantly on a very annoying horn! Not a pleasant sound.

BUT, you see her as someone trying to push her way through the crowd and expecting people to make way for her.I see a person who is trying to stay with her other party on the ECV in front of her. I see someone who is using the horn in an attempt to keep people from placing themselves between two moving ECVs!

I know for a fact that people are CONSTANTLY stepping in front of ECV's at a busy park exit. ( Seriously, some walkers are like moths to a flame when they walk next to an ECV) I have seen them JUMP OVER the front of moving ECV's to get to a faster moving section of a crowd! The only reason IMO that you are not seeing that here is because she IS on that annoying horn.


Anyway, TURN OFF THE SOUND on the video. Now watch again and notice has she is following the path of the other ECV? She is also only moving at crowd speed. As guests coming in pass her you see at approx 0:07 someone stop in the middle of the road, but focus on the far left side and she is still at the same speed as the other guests. At at approx 012, pay attention to the people on the far left, the lady in the green shirt, still same low speed. You will see her move slightly right to avoid the two women holding hands, but once she passes them, she returned to her spot directly behind the other ecv. At no point do you see the user trying to push around people. Again, I see the horn as being used to keep people from stepping out between the two ECV'S.

(Sadly, I also think that if this woman had looked like a model, some of the people on you tube might have felt a little different about what she is doing.)

Yes.

It's all about the perspective. If you look at it, expecting to see 'annoying ECV lady' that is what you see.

If you REALLY look though, you see a woman just trying to stay with the rest of her party. She keeps getting cut off - which is very scary when the rest of the guests are walking and tower above you. Unless she is behind the other person on a scooter, she can't see it at all to follow. Even if you know the way, it can be very scary to get cut off.
Getting cut off happens all the time to us. We expect it and have been to WDW many times, but we know the parks very well. If we get separated, we each go on to our destination - our whole party knows that.
But, if the person following does not know the way, or had not prearranged where to meet up, it is very scary and the follower starts to panic. That's what I see in that video.

 

[bidnow5]

After using an ECV in Disney for years I have learned to watch all around to look for people walking sideways or looking for the ones that start to walk fast side of me because I know they will be cutting in front of me instead of just crossing behind me.

At times when the crowds are bad my family stays behind me because it's easier to stay together

It's very hard to keep a safe distance between an ECV and people walking in front of you. I try to leave a couple of feet between my scooter and walkers but you can't even with 1 foot between people step in front of me. I had an idiot father grab his sons hand pick him up swing him over the front of my scooter and plop him down right in front of me. If I hadn't noticed him I would have hit the boy real hard fortunately I stopped before the boy was put down about 2 inches in front of me.

I would be very upset if I was singled out with a pamphlet. I would however be pleased to get one that also includes telling walkers how to be safe around ECV's

 

[icouldlivethere]

After using an ECV in Disney for years I have learned to watch all around to look for people walking sideways or looking for the ones that start to walk fast side of me because I know they will be cutting in front of me instead of just crossing behind me.

At times when the crowds are bad my family stays behind me because it's easier to stay together

It's very hard to keep a safe distance between an ECV and people walking in front of you. I try to leave a couple of feet between my scooter and walkers but you can't even with 1 foot between people step in front of me. I had an idiot father grab his sons hand pick him up swing him over the front of my scooter and plop him down right in front of me. If I hadn't noticed him I would have hit the boy real hard fortunately I stopped before the boy was put down about 2 inches in front of me.

I would be very upset if I was singled out with a pamphlet. I would however be pleased to get one that also includes telling walkers how to be safe around ECV's

I agree with everything you said!!

I have my own ECV and have used ECV's for many years now. It reminds me of people on the highway who drive really fast to pass you and once they get in front of you they slow way down. I have that happen to me all the time in the parks. People will look right at me and speed up with their entire group to go by me and then step in front of me and slow way down or worse yet come to a stop and I have to quickly take my hand off my lever and hope my scooter stops in time not to run them over.

When we leave a show or enter some other crowded area it is impossible to see because of being so much closer to the ground than the people around me so I have my husband get out in front of me so I can follow him and then all kinds of people will step in between us. Then my husband will turn around and wonder where I'm at. When he finally finds me he tells me to stay right on his heels so nobody can get between us and I tell him that's not possible without running into him. It's really amazing how small of a space people will manage to squeeze their entire party into. You leave a foot for safety reasons and suddenly somebody has squeezed themselves into that space. Not only that they will stop and grab the rest of the family by the hand or arm or whatever else they can grab and shove them all into the space as well. Now I can't even see my husband anymore because of all the people between us.

I can't believe how many times I have read on the boards people saying that it is up to the ECV user to watch out for walkers and that walkers always have the right away. Really???? Would you let your kids play in a parking lot and expect the cars to see them and not run them over. I don't know about you but I wouldn't even step out into a cross walk without looking carefully in both directions to make sure any cars coming saw me and were coming to a stop. Even if you have the right away if the approaching car doesn't see you or isn't going to stop it doesn't matter who had the right of away. If you get run over by a car you are just as dead whether you had the right of way or not.

Bottom line both sides have an obligation and responsibility to watch where they are going. Allowing toddlers to run willy nilly and twirl around in circles in front of everyone is not cute, it is stupid. I see people pushing those big huge double wide strollers at much higher rates of speed than any ECV user I've ever seen. Some people seem to think they are invincible when they have a huge stroller in front of them. I can't tell you how many times I've been rammed into by one of those.

My scooter only weighs about 75 pounds. My scooter and me together still weigh less than most adults do. I wish Disney used smaller rental scooters like the one I have. The big clunky ones they have are harder to maneuver, especially for someone who is not used to it. My little scooter is much easier to handle and maneuver. It's sad that they are making more and more ride lines inaccessible to scooters because of people with the big clunky scooters not being able to maneuver their way through them. Doing that makes it impossible for someone like me to ride those rides alone because I am unable to push myself in a wheelchair.

 

[Friendly Frog]

It's sad that they are making more and more ride lines inaccessible to scooters because of people with the big clunky scooters not being able to maneuver their way through them. Doing that makes it impossible for someone like me to ride those rides alone because I am unable to push myself in a wheelchair.

Yes it is! They have stopped letting scooters into lines that I have driven Disney's big chunky scooters into before.

Anyone know if power chairs are allowed into the lines that scooters are not allowed through?

 

[icouldlivethere]

Kaytieeldr, Did I say that?

Doesn't matter, it is true and it is not the only ride entrance they have changed from ECV access to manual transfer access. I travel alone to WDW and I can not push my self in a chair. When I have approached CM's telling them that my ECV will fit just fine , I will not bump into their posts, ( though I wish some of the walkers could move their feet, and bums off of my side of the roap) and that I can not push myself in a chair, I have been told " Sorry, then you can not ride"


ECV ride access is shrinking and I am getting more and more pushed out of the ability to ride. I have traveled some of those lines in THEIR ECV's and still did not have a problem with the line, so I am not convinced on the real motive to limit ECV ride line access. I think this is something that we need to question and call them on. Or at least request that they provide an alternative that would allow us to access to the load area. Let me wait in the line, or provide me a quick access method to load, please.


Do not remove roads because some people can not drive.

I've noticed this too!! The latest one for me was the Buzz Lightyear ride in MK. This last trip they wouldn't allow me to bring my scooter in telling me that the lines weren't big enough. That's funny, I've been bringing my scooter in there since it first opened with no problems whatsoever.

I was wondering the same thing. Is it because of the big clunky scooters they rent and inexperienced drivers having trouble making their way through? Or have people been complaining about scooters in the line? Perhaps somebody got their heels bumped into by an inexperienced driver and complained.

The thing they don't take into consideration is that most people in scooters don't have the upper body strength to push themselves in a wheelchair. So if you don't have somebody with you that can push you then you are out of luck. This is happening at more and more rides. If you find somebody to complain to, please let me know. This isn't really providing equal access now is it??

 

[Chickenlady]

I was also complaining about the lose of scooter accessible rides in my posting a couple of weeks ago. I stopped at GS and complained. The only thing they could come up with was a GAC to use an alternative entrance. They (GS) didn't know if this would work or not. I didn't get a chance to try it as we were leaving for home.

 

[Deesknee]

I admit I didn't read the majority of this thread, but wanted to add my 2 cents. My means of transport is a manual wheel chair. my own. I am usually pushed by either DH or one of my adult children. I can not tell you how many times they have "screeched" me to a stop because someone either unknowingly, or otherwise cut us off.
I have no problem being advised, both myself & my ...lack of a better word...pushers. But I agree, the CM's should start paying attention to the other pedestrians who are not paying attention to other guests, in chairs or other walkers.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Great Example.

I think the first thing most people, (and both of us) see is an ECV user who is constantly on a very annoying horn! Not a pleasant sound.

BUT, you see her as someone trying to push her way through the crowd and expecting people to make way for her.I see a person who is trying to stay with her other party on the ECV in front of her. I see someone who is using the horn in an attempt to keep people from placing themselves between two moving ECVs!

I know for a fact that people are CONSTANTLY stepping in front of ECV's at a busy park exit. ( Seriously, some walkers are like moths to a flame when they walk next to an ECV) I have seen them JUMP OVER the front of moving ECV's to get to a faster moving section of a crowd! The only reason IMO that you are not seeing that here is because she IS on that annoying horn.


Anyway, TURN OFF THE SOUND on the video. Now watch again and notice has she is following the path of the other ECV? She is also only moving at crowd speed. As guests coming in pass her you see at approx 0:07 someone stop in the middle of the road, but focus on the far left side and she is still at the same speed as the other guests. At at approx 012, pay attention to the people on the far left, the lady in the green shirt, still same low speed. You will see her move slightly right to avoid the two women holding hands, but once she passes them, she returned to her spot directly behind the other ecv. At no point do you see the user trying to push around people. Again, I see the horn as being used to keep people from stepping out between the two ECV'S.

(Sadly, I also think that if this woman had looked like a model, some of the people on you tube might have felt a little different about what she is doing.)

Yes I get that she may have been cut off from her family by someone, but why can't people in an ECV just be nice and say "could you get out of my way" instead of leaning on the horn.

 

[SueM in MN]

Yes I get that she may have been cut off from her family by someone, but why can't people in an ECV just be nice and say "could you get out of my way" instead of leaning on the horn.

Many ECVs don't even have a horn and many people using an ECV that does have a horn have never used it, so 'ECV people leaning on the horn' is the exception, not the rule.

Tell you what, next time you go to WDW, rent an ECV. Say "could you get out of my way" and see what happens. Quite a few people will probably think you are rude and quite a few won't move.

We travel with DD who uses a manual wheelchair - so no horn. When someone is in our way, which happens quite frequently, we politely say, "Excuse me. Can you move so we can get by."
About half look embarrassed and move. About 1/4 do nothing and about 1/4 act like we are asking for their first born child. This even happens when they are standing in the curb cut, with nothing preventing them from moving or when they are walking 3 or 4 abreast on a path and blocking the path. We've even had people force us off the sidewalk at resorts, so they can stay walking side by side.

People who have asked many times nicely and gotten no response do get frustrated and may use the horn if they have one. And, people who have gotten separated from the rest of their party may get scared, panic and use the horn, if they have one.

So, courtesy needs to go both ways.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

First of all I don't think it is a good idea when people keep suggesting that someone rent an ECV to get some perspective on the mater. That's the last thing we need more of in the parks is people who are inexperienced with them.

Next up yes I get it can be annoying when you get cut off by someone, it happens to people walking in the parks too. I have been in the Disneyland and DCA with both people with an ECV and a stroller, and sometimes the dissociation between cutting them off or walking into a wall comes up.I just think we all need to watch out for everyone else no mater how we are getting around the parks.

Also I always try to not cut in between other people and there families.

But if you stiil insist I should rent one, I will if you want to pay for it (lol).

 

[Michigan]

We travel with DD who uses a manual wheelchair - so no horn. When someone is in our way, which happens quite frequently, we politely say, "Excuse me. Can you move so we can get by."
About half look embarrassed and move. About 1/4 do nothing and about 1/4 act like we are asking for their first born child. This even happens when they are standing in the curb cut, with nothing preventing them from moving or when they are walking 3 or 4 abreast on a path and blocking the path. We've even had people force us off the sidewalk at resorts, so they can stay walking side by side.

So true! Friday my youngest and I stopped at Hollywood Studios to celebrate the fact that she had her wound vac removed and there were several times when there would be 4 or 5 people between us. I always walk in front of her when the crowds are heavy so I can create a path and she would have to stop before she ran into people because they would cut her off and walk in front of her.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Yes I get that she may have been cut off from her family by someone, but why can't people in an ECV just be nice and say "could you get out of my way" instead of leaning on the horn.

How many times? How many times can you say that? I'd like to still have a voice when I get home from vacation...

I've actually never had anybody pay attention to the ECV horn, and no, I don't "lay on it". I don't bother with it any longer, since it seems so ineffective.

First of all I don't think it is a good idea when people keep suggesting that someone rent an ECV to get some perspective on the matter. That's the last thing we need more of in the parks is people who are inexperienced with them.

I disagree. The people who complain about ECV users need to see what it's like. Walk a mile (or ten) in our shoes, as it were. You need the first-hang experience, including the butt-level POV, the being invisible, the snide remarks, the people on foot blaming you when they step in front of you... before you're qualified to give advice.

While I didn't copy your suggestion that we/somebody else pay for your rental - the posters who own power chairs or ECVs paid for those; the posters who rent already pay a premium. Education isn't free. If you're truly compassionate and not just being contrary, invest the extra money for a day, it's eye-opening.

 

[mrsksomeday]

So true! Friday my youngest and I stopped at Hollywood Studios to celebrate the fact that she had her wound vac removed and there were several times when there would be 4 or 5 people between us. I always walk in front of her when the crowds are heavy so I can create a path and she would have to stop before she ran into people because they would cut her off and walk in front of her.

I walk in front of Bill, who uses a power wheelchair as well to create a path. We would love it if I could walk beside him but most people either don't see him or act like they don't and if frustrates us.

 

[Friendly Frog]

.

But if you stiil insist I should rent one, I will if you want to pay for it (lol).

If we hadn't just been told this week that hubby will be unemployed soon, I would chip in for part of it!

I bet a few of us would like to make it a meet and watch even. (OK maybe that is just my sense of fun.) I would not want in anyway to be unkind to you, just to watch you get the " Holy crap" look when the 1000th person walks in front of you. Once you make it to the exit, will you please take it on the bus too.

Honestly, you can't imagine what it is like unless you see for yourself. Usually, no amount of "excuse me", or "may I pass", or "please be careful you are drifting my way"...is heard. People have vacation ears on. Unless you shout at them, forget it, and no one wants to shout at people all day.

 

[cmwade77]

I personally think that Disney should give Air Horns to anyone coming into the parks with an ECV of Wheelchair and they should be built into the rentals.

I have seen too many get run into, even when they are completely out of the way. And no, saying excuse me doesn't work either. Sometimes the only option is to indeed get in front and clear a path, otherwise a person in a wheelchair or ECV could be stuck in one spot for an hour. Tell me, is it fair that they can't go an enjoy the rest of the park when you can, just because you don't want them laying on the horn? NO, it is NOT.

I am lucky that I do not need a wheelchair or ECV, but I know many people that are not so lucky and I have seen what they go through. I also know I have done my fair share of waling in front of wheelchairs or ECVs and even sustained minor injuries on occasion, but it was MY FAULT, so how can I complain about that? The answer is that I can't and others need to realize that wheelchairs and ECVs cannot stop on a dime, especially on hills.

In addition, in many cases a person that is in a wheelchair going up hill may not be able to continue going up hill if they are forced to stop part way up. They end up having to turn around, go back down the hill and then start again. Now, if they have to try to stop while going down hill to keep from hitting someone, they can risk serious injury to themselves. At Disneyland there are two places where this problem is very bad. These are the entrance/exit to Toon Town and Critter Country. These hills are really steep and someone in a manual chair that is by themselves have limited options to get up and down these hills. I also say that the hill by California Screamin' at Paradise Pier is a problem as well; however, that case has a work around, although it is a longer distance. Now, I know most of these posts have been about Disney World, but the point is that there are even worse hills there than at Disneyland, so I would encourage all people who are not in a wheelchair or ECV to consider these issues.

I strongly feel that everyone should be required to be in a manual wheelchair for one week prior to graduating High School and be required to go to a major theme park in one (or the closest they can get to a major theme park near them). I think people would be a lot more understanding if they had to do this.