New pamphlet handed out yesterday...3/3/2012

[KPeveler]

Yes I get that she may have been cut off from her family by someone, but why can't people in an ECV just be nice and say "could you get out of my way" instead of leaning on the horn.

Something else to remember is that those of us with wheels are at "hiney height." I am a full time manual/power wheelchair user, and I say "excuse me" politely 3 times to a person before I am more forceful and just tell them to MOVE! I am speaking generally to their rear ends, so in a crowded park with lots of noise, it is often difficult for them to hear me. This is another reason a person wheeling through a park may seem "rude." People may not have heard the polite requests...

 

[SueM in MN]

Something else to remember is that those of us with wheels are at "hiney height." I am a full time manual/power wheelchair user, and I say "excuse me" politely 3 times to a person before I am more forceful and just tell them to MOVE! I am speaking generally to their rear ends, so in a crowded park with lots of noise, it is often difficult for them to hear me. This is another reason a person wheeling through a park may seem "rude." People may not have heard the polite requests...

And, many people, whether walking or wheeling, are in their own little world at a Disney park.

 

[bidnow5]

Well if I had 10 cents for every excuse me I said in Disney I could go to Disney every week. Many times I have to say it 4 or 5 times I do admit after the third time I get louder. I have horns on both of my scooters I never use them. If they ignore a polite excuse me a horn is useless

I do know someone that uses her horn a lot but it's just to let people know she is there she has been hurt several times by people not seeing her and falling over her. She is tiny and so is her scooter

 

[icouldlivethere]

Many ECVs don't even have a horn and many people using an ECV that does have a horn have never used it, so 'ECV people leaning on the horn' is the exception, not the rule.

Tell you what, next time you go to WDW, rent an ECV. Say "could you get out of my way" and see what happens. Quite a few people will probably think you are rude and quite a few won't move.

We travel with DD who uses a manual wheelchair - so no horn. When someone is in our way, which happens quite frequently, we politely say, "Excuse me. Can you move so we can get by."
About half look embarrassed and move. About 1/4 do nothing and about 1/4 act like we are asking for their first born child. This even happens when they are standing in the curb cut, with nothing preventing them from moving or when they are walking 3 or 4 abreast on a path and blocking the path. We've even had people force us off the sidewalk at resorts, so they can stay walking side by side.

People who have asked many times nicely and gotten no response do get frustrated and may use the horn if they have one. And, people who have gotten separated from the rest of their party may get scared, panic and use the horn, if they have one.

So, courtesy needs to go both ways.

Boy can I relate to everything you said!!

I have a horn on my scooter but don't ever use it but there have been lots of times I wanted to. I don't want to appear rude so I don't use it.

I do believe that every Disney employee should be made to spend one full day in each park in a scooter to see what it is like. I also think that they should not be allowed to wear their uniform while doing so and should be in regular clothes and not be allowed to tell anyone they are an employee so they get no special treatment. They should have to make an attempt to ride every ride and see every show.

I know my sister used to complain to me that she thought there were people using scooters that didn't need them and that she hated having to wait for them to get on the bus. I told her that I didn't think people would use scooters if they didn't have to because they are a pain to get around in but she was convinced we were all getting some kind of "special treatment".

Then last year she met us at DW and she went around the parks with us and was shocked to discover that she would have been better off going by herself. She got to see first hand that yes I was the first on the bus but the last to get off and she did NOT like having to sit and wait for the entire bus to empty and then wait some more while the driver helped me off the bus. Then she saw how I kept getting cut off from my family by people stepping out in front of me. She also saw that for some of the rides we get funneled off into another line that can actually move slower than the regular line. After a few hours of this her and her husband decided to split up from us and go around the parks by themselves. It was a real eye opener for her and she never complains to me anymore about thinking that some people are in scooters that don't need them. Now she knows how stupid that would be to do.

I think part of the problem is that because there are far more walkers than scooter and wheelchair users that their voices get heard the loudest. So the voices of those of us who need wheels to get around get drowned out by the voices of the walkers. So if the walkers complain about some perceived special treatment they think they see ECV/WC people getting or some behavior they don't like then they get heard more. That is why I think we need to make sure our voices get heard too.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

How many times? How many times can you say that? I'd like to still have a voice when I get home from vacation...

I've actually never had anybody pay attention to the ECV horn, and no, I don't "lay on it". I don't bother with it any longer, since it seems so ineffective.

I guess the main problem with it is sometimes the person that you are honking at can't actually go anywhere. I know at home when I've' been honked at by someone in one my only choice has been the street or someones lawn, which isn't always possible.

I disagree. The people who complain about ECV users need to see what it's like. Walk a mile (or ten) in our shoes, as it were. You need the first-hang experience, including the butt-level POV, the being invisible, the snide remarks, the people on foot blaming you when they step in front of you... before you're qualified to give advice.

Some of that does make seance, but at the same time even if a few people actually did that they probably still wouldn't give a care. I get that it can be hard navigating in a crowd. it's even hard for us walking too especially if it's at the end of the day. Trust me even being able to see above peoples heads doesn't give you much of a good prospective in a crowd and being told to move for someone in an ECV, can only make you mad as there may not be anywhere for you to go.

While I didn't copy your suggestion that we/somebody else pay for your rental - the posters who own power chairs or ECVs paid for those; the posters who rent already pay a premium. Education isn't free. If you're truly compassionate and not just being contrary, invest the extra money for a day, it's eye-opening.

Don't worry about that it was only meant as joke. I just don't fell that, that is really a good solution to the problem. We just all need to look out for each other, but it's hard to do sometimes if your not excepting someone from behind.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Something else to remember is that those of us with wheels are at "hiney height." I am a full time manual/power wheelchair user, and I say "excuse me" politely 3 times to a person before I am more forceful and just tell them to MOVE! I am speaking generally to their rear ends, so in a crowded park with lots of noise, it is often difficult for them to hear me. This is another reason a person wheeling through a park may seem "rude." People may not have heard the polite requests...

I think maybe sometimes people walk may ignore the request of someone to move when they are in front of an ECV/power chair is because they don't really except someone to come up from behind them or they may not have seen you coming when they steeped in front of you. Also when it's crowded it hard for anyone to navigate anywhere. If you really want to see a bad crowd go to Disneyland after Fantasmic. They actually create one way paths in the parks by putting up ropes and using benches, to create them.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You've said a couple of times that people walking don't expect someone to come up from behind them. But that doesn't really make sense in a crowd, does it? There'll always be someone - lots of someones - behind you. They're just on foot. It sounds like what you mean is someone on wheels.

But generally that person isn't coming up behind a guest on foot. They're already there, and trying to stay with their party (just like the guests on foot - how is it reasonable that guests on wheels are treated less fairly by other guests?).

That's not the issue, though. Problem come when adults on foot see what looks like an empty space because the person in that space is actually at honey level, or even does see the guest on wheels, and thinks/feels/believes they themselves can fit or should be in that space or can move through that space faster than the person in it.

THAT'S why each person who's critical of scooter use/users, or thinks they know what's best for us, needs to experience a day of park touring in an ECV first - ideally with an experienced user.

 

[Tinker Bell Fan]

I personally think that Disney should give Air Horns to anyone coming into the parks with an ECV of Wheelchair and they should be built into the rentals.
.

Funny you should say that - DH told me the other day that he wants one of those to use while he's using an ECV at WDW! I was thinking along the lines of a bicycle horn.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Bike horn - Yes. Air horn - No. Years ago I was thinking of getting one of the portable boat air horns to carry with an ECV. However, one I read the specifications I decided against it. They are designed the be easily hears several hundred yards away. It would not only terrorize the person intended, but at least 500 nearby innocent people.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Have you ever seen the youtube videos of people who have put a train horn on their pickup truck?

 

[Friendly Frog]

I bet an air horn would clear that path of people walking 5 deep!

No I wouldn't do it, but really....secretely....just think about the purely self indulgent pleasure of saying excuse me -twice- then laying on an air horn.

 

[Friendly Frog]

You've said a couple of times that people walking don't expect someone to come up from behind them. But that doesn't really make sense in a crowd, does it? There'll always be someone - lots of someones - behind you. They're just on foot. It sounds like what you mean is someone on wheels.

But generally that person isn't coming up behind a guest on foot. They're already there, and trying to stay with their party (just like the guests on foot - how is it reasonable that guests on wheels are treated less fairly by other guests?).

That's not the issue, though. Problem come when adults on foot see what looks like an empty space because the person in that space is actually at honey level, or even does see the guest on wheels, and thinks/feels/believes they themselves can fit or should be in that space or can move through that space faster than the person in it.

THAT'S why each person who's critical of scooter use/users, or thinks they know what's best for us, needs to experience a day of park touring in an ECV first - ideally with an experienced user.

YES!^^^^^^^^^YES! ^^^^^^^^^YES!^^^^^^^^


I don't think people on ECV's honking at the parks is an issue. Chairs don't normally have horns, and almost every rental ECV I have used has had a horn button, but it did not actually work. Even those who have horn buttons that work don't bother using them. The video linked has to be rare? I have never witnesses anything like it in all my years at WDW. And IMO even she was not trying to get people to move into a space. She was trying to keep people out of her space.

If you have people honking at you more than once on a trip, I think that you need to review what you are doing when you are honked at, and consider not going it anymore.

 

[buffettgirl]

I don't really think the problem is limited to walkers interfering with ECVs. I can't tell you how many times as a walker I've been stepped on, pushed over, cut off by another walker to the point where my kids have fallen or we've had near falls. Just from other people on foot. And I can't tell you how many times I've said excuse me and you still can't move. I can't tell you how many times I've been sitting somewhere waiting for a parade and had someone decide that I simply wasn't there and try to walk over me because for that instant they thought they could do it. Or didn't see me. Or whatever. People are in their own universe while at Disney.

So I don't think it's really anything personal. But this whole blowing a horn at people just seems a little uncivilized doesn't it? The bad behavior in the parks isn't limited to one group of people, but given that there are far more walkers then yeah, they cause more problems. But blowing horns at other people because of some perceived slight, or suggesting it, simply seems like more rudeness.

 

[Tinker Bell Fan]

I don't really think the problem is limited to walkers interfering with ECVs. I can't tell you how many times as a walker I've been stepped on, pushed over, cut off by another walker to the point where my kids have fallen or we've had near falls. Just from other people on foot. And I can't tell you how many times I've said excuse me and you still can't move. I can't tell you how many times I've been sitting somewhere waiting for a parade and had someone decide that I simply wasn't there and try to walk over me because for that instant they thought they could do it. Or didn't see me. Or whatever. People are in their own universe while at Disney.

So I don't think it's really anything personal. But this whole blowing a horn at people just seems a little uncivilized doesn't it?

First of all - let me say the air horn idea was a joke. DH & I would never use one of those especially while at the parks. The bike horn - maybe - only because the "horn" on the ECV can hardly be heard (and I think folks have gotten so "used" to it they just ignore it). So I'm thinking a bike horn or even one of those bike bells might help.

I do think honking (when done nicely) is ok. Sometimes folks (whether they are walking or driving) are so focused on what they want to do that they sometimes might forget there are other people out there and by giving a honk (not LAYING on the horn - big difference there), but by giving a honk, it might jar the focused person back to reality and make them aware that they are not the only one at that location. And it might prevent an accident. Just my opinion.

As I've said DH is the ECV user and I'm the walker - I have had to move out of someone's way quickly so I don't get my feet stepped on or rolled on by an ECV.

I just think if a little common courtesy amoung EVERYONE (walkers, strollers, & ECVers) would go a long way. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Piper]

I don't really think the problem is limited to walkers interfering with ECVs. I can't tell you how many times as a walker I've been stepped on, pushed over, cut off by another walker to the point where my kids have fallen or we've had near falls. Just from other people on foot. And I can't tell you how many times I've said excuse me and you still can't move. I can't tell you how many times I've been sitting somewhere waiting for a parade and had someone decide that I simply wasn't there and try to walk over me because for that instant they thought they could do it. Or didn't see me. Or whatever. People are in their own universe while at Disney.

So I don't think it's really anything personal. But this whole blowing a horn at people just seems a little uncivilized doesn't it? The bad behavior in the parks isn't limited to one group of people, but given that there are far more walkers then yeah, they cause more problems. But blowing horns at other people because of some perceived slight, or suggesting it, simply seems like more rudeness.

First--how many posts have you read ranting at walkers for bumping into other walkers? Didn't think so.

 

[Deesknee]

Unfortunately, I think people judge before they think. Perhaps a few seconds later they regret that word/thought/action.

 

[bouncycat]

My son keeps wanting to get me an air horn, and gets really upset if someone else besides family gets close to me. He's got Aspergers, and he has this type of MD that's in our family, he just isn't deteriorating yet, so he's VERY protective.

I don't use my horn either. Sometimes, when I do meetups in the parks with kids, they like to play with it, but that's the only use it gets, unless I wanna get the attention of my 13 yr old!! LOL He's about the only one who hears it, and knows mom means business!! LOL

 

[bidnow5]

I don't really think the problem is limited to walkers interfering with ECVs. I can't tell you how many times as a walker I've been stepped on, pushed over, cut off by another walker to the point where my kids have fallen or we've had near falls. Just from other people on foot. And I can't tell you how many times I've said excuse me and you still can't move. I can't tell you how many times I've been sitting somewhere waiting for a parade and had someone decide that I simply wasn't there and try to walk over me because for that instant they thought they could do it. Or didn't see me. Or whatever. People are in their own universe while at Disney.

So I don't think it's really anything personal. But this whole blowing a horn at people just seems a little uncivilized doesn't it?

I would gladly trade my scooter for the ability to walk. Right now I can walk 50 to 100 feet before I start having a lot of pain. I am overweight but can't exercise due to pain.

People have to think about what they say and think you don't know that person on the ECV so have no idea what issues they may have

 

[ttintagel]

Comparing walkers trying to get through a crowd with people in ECV's doing the same is apples and oranges. If you're walking and need to get around, you have many options, like slipping between two people, tapping the person on the shoulder, trying to make eye contact, or saying, "excuse me." On an ECV, you don't have those options, with the added challenge that you're not in anyone's peripheral vision they way you would be standing up.

 

[buffettgirl]

Look at what you're suggesting: that every walker be aware of you and that every walker has plenty of options to move quickly because on your ECV you can't move quickly out of the way nor can you stop quickly. What about the vision impaired walker? what about the person who is walking but can't move fast because of issues with his legs? Or the teen with some invisible issue that makes him not want to move unless he wants to move?

There are SO many reasons why a walker (evil as we are) cannot move as quickly as you assume we can. It would be rude in any situation to go honking at someone. And maybe you're not all paying attention, but there are thousands of instances every day in Disney where someone get their foot steeped on, gets bumped, gets jostled, or walked over, or otherwise has a brief interaction with someone else. It's almost so common as to not even be post worthy. You're all saying "spend some time in the ECV" well I don't need to. It's a jungle out there in Disney. For real. It's crazy. People are NUT. It's not just you. Yes, your challenges are unique. No doubting that. But some people in Disney are freaking rude. Just how it is.

I have a child with so many medical issues that none of you could even begin to imagine, yet he looks perfectly fine and most of the time he behaves perfectly fine. I am QUITE aware that no one should be judged on how they look because there are so many reasons - more than the average person understands - for why things are the way they are.