Las Vegas Shooting

[sam_gordon]

They have technology to track how many chips someone has at a table, so figuring out something as simple metal in a suitcase can't be that hard.

Put RFID in the chips and this is easy.

i think the most interesting one is the 4th floor shooter, there was a video of someone recording the Mandalay Bay, shows flashes from a lower floor.

Has anyone seen windows on the 4th floor knocked out? Do they open? If both answers are "no", then there could be no 4th floor shooter. Seems simple to me.

 

[soccerdad72]

I read that he had 10 bags in the room. He could easily bring in a couple at a time without anyone noticing. Truthfully even if he brought them all in at once it probably wouldn't raise flags. We're taking about a huge hotel with a huge lobby with thousands of people coming and going. There's nothing unusual about a person entering a hotel with a lot of luggage.

Yeah, I mean it's Vegas - you have to be pretty outrageous to draw any attention in a casino in Vegas.

 

[bcla]

The sheriff's faux pas to the side, various news agencies, are now reporting that he has been buying guns for approx. 20 years with the bulk of them purchased in one year between 4 or 5 different states. Since there is no national registry of guns there really was no one to realise what he was doing. Further at least one expert said the purchases wouldn't have rung any bells since he had no criminal back ground or known mental health issues.

Something I've thought about for the multiple shootists theorists who wonder how he could possibly have brought that many guns to the suite w/o help. How about large rolling luggage? There are a lot of specialist pieces of luggage that could allow him to bring it into the hotel over several trips. This is only a thought at this point since the hotel's surveillance tapes have not been released and I'm not even sure if they have been fully reviewed by law enforcement.

You can find pictures of disassembled firearms, like this one:

It might not even need to be disassembled beyond just removing the butt to fit in a 28" piece of rolling luggage. I've seen police AR-15s and M4s from close distance, and it would be less than 24" with the butt/handle removed. Reports are that he had maybe 10 pieces of luggage, which was more than enough to carry his arsenal.

 

[Hikergirl]

I listened to audio of someone who has there and she was talking about the different sounds she was hearing, and that the police officer she was with radioed in that they had "multiple shooters". This was all during the chaos of her and her husband trying to get out of there and make it to safety.
At that point, police had no idea whether it was one or more shooters, so him saying that doesn't mean anything.
I also think acoustics can play tricks on your ears, and when you are in a situation like that you aren't thinking rationally and clearly about what is happening, you are thinking about getting the hell out of there.

I really hate how those in the media roll with these conspiracies. I don't want to pay attention to anything they say, but I do want to know what is going on and they are the public's only choice.

 

[cabanafrau]

Put RFID in the chips and this is easy.


Has anyone seen windows on the 4th floor knocked out? Do they open? If both answers are "no", then there could be no 4th floor shooter. Seems simple to me.

Maybe the 4th floor shooter brought along replacement window panes in their luggage and made the swap while everyone was distracted and no one's the wiser?

Next you're going to tell me there wasn't a bogeyman under my bed when I was five either, even though I heard him.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Personally I'm finding the reports of him "buying guns for over 20 years" nothing more than journalistic hype. Considering he had many recent purchases of guns, seemingly at a much greater rate than prior to a year ago, and apparently hadn't used those earlier purchases to attack anyone I think it's much more reasonable to look at the more recent flurry of purchases as indicative of a plan to harm.

Would the luggage have to have been that large to get the guns into his room? Don't many of those weapons break down? Presumably he would have understood how to break them down himself and reassemble them if in fact he purchased and installed these infamous bump stocks that enabled him to commit this atrocity?

I don't see any hype if they are reporting using credible documentation that he has been buying guns for an extended period of time and that most of them were purchased over one year; sounds like good journalism to me.

I really know nothing about whether the guns he purchased could be broken down into parts and as I said am merely surmising on this point in particular along with the rest of us.

 

[msjprincess]

I listened to audio of someone who has there and she was talking about the different sounds she was hearing, and that the police officer she was with radioed in that they had "multiple shooters". This was all during the chaos of her and her husband trying to get out of there and make it to safety.
At that point, police had no idea whether it was one or more shooters, so him saying that doesn't mean anything.
I also think acoustics can play tricks on your ears, and when you are in a situation like that you aren't thinking rationally and clearly about what is happening, you are thinking about getting the hell out of there.

I really hate how those in the media roll with these conspiracies. I don't want to pay attention to anything they say, but I do want to know what is going on and they are the public's only choice.

I heard people say that too, but it's now thought it was due to him switching guns.

 

[msjprincess]

Yeah, I mean it's Vegas - you have to be pretty outrageous to draw any attention in a casino in Vegas.

This is true.

 

[bcla]

I don't see any hype if they are reporting using credible documentation that he has been buying guns for an extended period of time and that most of them were purchased over one year; sounds like good journalism to me.

I really know nothing about whether the guns he purchased could be broken down into parts and as I said am merely surmising on this point in particular along with the rest of us.

You've never seen a movie with a trope of someone breaking down and/or reassembling a rifle (sometimes blindfolded)? At the very least, it's easy to notice that the butt of these modern ones are made of plastic that's attached as a separate piece with the receiver. There are folding stocks, adjustable stocks or sometimes even the stock completely removed.

 

[NYCgrrl]

You've never seen a movie with a trope of someone breaking down and/or reassembling a rifle (sometimes blindfolded)? At the very least, it's easy to notice that the butt of these modern ones are made of plastic that's attached as a separate piece with the receiver. There are folding stocks, adjustable stocks or sometimes even the stock completely removed.

Can't think of any I've seen but but I'm a TCM fan who is driven by plot and credible acting.

 

[bcla]

Yeah, I mean it's Vegas - you have to be pretty outrageous to draw any attention in a casino in Vegas.

There was the "Bellagio Bandit". He got in on a motorcycle, walked into the high limit room with a helmet on, and robbed them of maybe $2 million worth of chips. It was pretty much useless though because cashing in the high value ($5000 to $25,000) ones is hardly something that is easy to do. I also heard that he dropped one in a Salvation Army kettle. However, nobody really batted an eye when someone walked in wearing full motorcycle gear and a helmet.

 

[msjprincess]

There was the "Bellagio Bandit". He got in on a motorcycle, walked into the high limit room with a helmet on, and robbed them of maybe $2 million worth of chips. It was pretty much useless though because cashing in the high value ($5000 to $25,000) ones is hardly something that is easy to do. I also heard that he dropped one in a Salvation Army kettle. However, nobody really batted an eye when someone walked in wearing full motorcycle gear and a helmet.

Why would they?

 

[Magpie]

Perhaps, but he was high up there, technically shooting down across the street...

Totally different angle and he may had yo use a different gun, a long range sniper style one I'm thinking.

Bullets (at least in my personal experience, as someone with a terrible ability to aim) have a way of going in very unexpected directions.

I would think, if he was planning to try to blow up the tanks (which almost certainly wouldn't have worked, since fuel needs both air and heat to explode and a single bullet hole isn't terrific at delivering either), he'd have chosen a weapon with more penetrating power. Don't gun owners usually know the effective distance and power of their weapons? And he clearly didn't watch that MythBusters episode about it.

Possibly, he spotted the tanks from his window and tried a shot or two. I imagine law enforcement is going over every bullet, and every angle, with a fine toothed comb. It's going to take awhile to get a complete picture (and to be quite honest, I'm not all that interested in the details). It way too soon to be second guessing the facts, when we don't even know what they are.

I try to stay well clear of anything that even remotely sounds like a conspiracy theory.

 

[Magpie]

You can find pictures of disassembled firearms, like this one:

It might not even need to be disassembled beyond just removing the butt to fit in a 28" piece of rolling luggage. I've seen police AR-15s and M4s from close distance, and it would be less than 24" with the butt/handle removed. Reports are that he had maybe 10 pieces of luggage, which was more than enough to carry his arsenal.

I suddenly have a very strong urge to put that thing back together!

It's the only thing I ever liked about firearms - taking them apart and reassembling them and then taking them apart again. It's more fun than playing with Transformers!

 

[Hikergirl]

I heard people say that too, but it's now thought it was due to him switching guns.

Yes that is what I figured about the different pitches. The woman I heard was talking about how the sounds of bullets were coming from different directions. I think she was just confused about that.

 

[wenrob]

Why would they?

Most people who ride bikes leave the helmet with the bike. Even if you don’t you’d take it off right before walking into a dim casino. That really should have been a huge, red flag. As a clerk in just a regular store anyone walking in wearing a helmet or a jacket when it’s not remotely cold outside made me extremely nervous.

 

[bcla]

Can't think of any I've seen but but I'm a TCM fan who is driven by plot and credible acting.

Ever saw Full Metal Jacket? They show a M14s being assembled several times. One character being able to break down and reassemble his rifle quickly is a turning point in the movie that he's becoming a competent Marine.

And since Vegas is mentioned, there's Jack Black in Mars Attacks!.

However, from the leaked photo, I think that at least that weapon could have easily been placed in a standard airline-sized check-in with the butt removed. Even someone without weapons training should be able to take the butt off and put it back on.

 

[msjprincess]

Most people who ride bikes leave the helmet with the bike. Even if you don’t you’d take it off right before walking into a dim casino. That really should have been a huge, red flag. As a clerk in just a regular store anyone walking in wearing a helmet or a jacket when it’s not remotely cold outside made me extremely nervous.

My husband owns several bikes we ride all the time. You're right I do leave the helmet on the bike but if I saw someone else with a helmet on I really don't think I would pay any attention or suspect anything.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I heard people say that too, but it's now thought it was due to him switching guns.

Yes, there was a veteran on the 29th floor who reports all the shooting from one locale, and that he could tell when the guy changed weapons.

As for the mass purchase of firearms causing a red flag, I doubt even if anyone had noticed that it would point to something like this. When have we ever had a mass shooter who used 20 different guns, particularly in different ammo types? Typically, they have one or two and loads of ammo.

 

[nd5056]

I agree with everything you wrote accept for this:

...Possibly, he spotted the tanks from his window and tried a shot or two...

He was well organized to act on an impulse. A ricochet or something would be more believable. But, just speculating, that's all.