Wanna buy a Fastpass? It will cost ya $50

[LSUmiss]

Maybe I should have been more clear, but I totally agree with you. I think that this will become more widespread and will definitely affect those of us who choose not to do it. Absolutely it will. And I hate it too for that very reason. At some point we may be "forced" to do it just to feel like we're having a decent experience, and that stinks.

And that’s where everyone is different. I would not want to pay for exactly what I get now. But, I would be willing to pay for more, or no tier system, or an overall improved system. What I would ideally like to pay for is a certain amount of anytime fps like the ones you get when they give you them for a problem. For us, we would probably come out similar financially depending on the cost b/c part of why our trips are so long is to make sure we have adequate time to do things. I would prob shorten trips by 2-3 days.

 

[Planogirl]

Reading this thread i can see why Disney keeps pushing this stuff. Many people are truly willing to pay for just about anything Disney-wise. No criticism from me but it is fascinating.

I agree with those who say that is likely just the beginning of monetizing FP+.

 

[LSUmiss]

Reading this thread i can see why Disney keeps pushing this stuff. Many people are truly willing to pay for just about anything Disney-wise. No criticism from me but it is fascinating.

I agree with those who say that is likely just the beginning of monetizing FP+.

For us, it’s that we are sick of the mass crowds yr round now. There is nothing much disney can or would want to do to change that. I look at all of these extras as a way to mitigate those crowds.

 

[bryanb]

Plug any old prices (including the ticket books) or even any prices pre-2006 into an inflation calculator and you'll see how more recent prices have far outpaced inflation. Walt always wanted the park in general and the rides to be generally affordable and in line with inflation, under Iger they've far outpaced inflation much more than any time in their past.

Walt was the creative genius of the family, but he wasn't necessarily the business genius. Former Disneyland president, Jack Lindquist, is quoted in several accounts as saying: “Everyone thinks Disney was a tremendous success right from day one. It was from a public standpoint, but not financially. For the first two-and-a-half years, we operated 34 weeks of the year in the red and 18 weeks in the black. Not a good business plan." If there is a financial genius in the early days, it was Roy Disney, who always echoed his brother's dreams in public but imposed the fiscal discipline in private. Without him, Disneyland would never have been built --and it certainly wouldn't have survived, and WDW would've never been completed. He is the one who channeled Walt's vision into profitability. After Roy's death, the company deteriorated quickly. The company was only keeping prices up with inflation, but it was falling apart.

When ticket books were sunsetted around 1980, the price of an E Ticket was $0.90 (same as opening day), and the price of an A Ticket was a dime. Just in case anyone wants to do an inflation study.

By the 1980s, the company was in really bad shape. Ticket prices had lagged seriously. The company was so timid about increasing prices that it wasn't generating enough cash to justify the land that Disneyland was built on. Corporate raiders set their sights on hostile takeovers, seeking to tear down the theme park and build tract housing. For a moment, the company was about to be broken up and sold off into pieces. The danger only passed when the Disney family brought (the oft hated, by fans) Michael Eisner into the company, who took a heavy hand in finally pricing Disney parks based on what guests were willing to pay. But it saved the company. It ensured that Comcast would not successfully take over in the 2000s. And now Disney is very strong and buying up other companies like ABC, Marvel, Lucasfilms, Fox (instead of being bought).

 

[Magic_Man]

My comment was in response to the pp who said that the parks are crowded despite prices b/c the general public is trying to hurry up & go to WDW before it’s out of their prices range. So, in that case, it does matter what they know.

I guess I see what you are saying, but it seems like the term "general public" is being misused (with the concession that you are not the one who introduced the term.)

 

[Magic_Man]

I am not up on all things DVC, not being an owner myself. Do DVC owners get to use their points toward CL rooms or does this initiative leave DVC folks out of luck?

 

[zebrastreyepz]

Sure, but that isn't to say everyone has the same resources.

Or the same motivations. I sometimes buy items at Whole Foods. It isn't to be pretentious, it is because they carry some items, like spices, that other nearby stores don't carry.

As I said, I used to know folks who'd drive around to different gas stations to save fifty cents. It wasn't really to save money. It was just about the thrill of the hunt.

I think any of us who are WDW regulars have probably rationalized away WDW expenses in some way.

There used to a running DISboards joke about magical Disney-math. (the ways we rationalized WDW expenses.)

There is no spice I can think of that would cause me to go to Whole Foods and pay their prices.

I'm extremely frugal...not cheap, but frugal.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

Disney tries to squeeze more profit out of everything. Ninety days? We chose to stay at a Disney resort on our upcoming trip partly because of the 60 day FP window. Now, I know how the people who stay off-site feel.

It changes the game. What angers me is that people (families) that have planned for a trip this summer will be impacted without warning.

I waited too long to go back to Italy in 2016. Looking more and more like we will be going back there (and other places) in 2019.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

I am not up on all things DVC, not being an owner myself. Do DVC owners get to use their points toward CL rooms or does this initiative leave DVC folks out of luck?

We are out of the loop for participating but not for the impact.

 

[Dan Murphy]

I agree with those who say that is likely just the beginning of monetizing FP+.

Likewise here.

 

[MrInfinity]

Hi. You wrote "...as long as it doesn't negatively impact the visit for those that don't choose to pay it..." and I think that may be what some of us are upset about. The fact is, that if some people are able to pay extra in order to essentially 'skip' the line, doesn't this mean that the rest of us who DONT pay the extra will basically have a line to wait in that is this much longer?

Yes. This goes back to the FP- arguments, and is human nature. Everyone is fine with systems that benefit one group more than another as long as you're in the group benefitting.

FP-, you could get more FPs by being faster or more prepared. People who got more called it fair because anyone could try to be "rich" by copying those who were able to do it. Skip ahead to today. You can get more FPs by paying for Deluxe accommodations and an extra fee. It is great for those that will do so. But if you won't, you are now one of the people you would have been racing by while they stood in line before.

Give an advantage to someone else that doesn't play to one's natural strength and it's unfair. If they had said something like "more Fast Passes will be awarded to those who sign up for a special promotion" the Dis would be cheering because we'd be the most educated and our small subset of guests would detail it out to the tee and we'd all score it. We would not be thinking it's unfair, we'd be delighted to be passing others in line one more time. The unfairness would not be spoken of.

 

[Magic_Man]

We would not be thinking it's unfair, we'd be delighted to be passing others in line one more time. The unfairness would not be spoken of.

I'll take it one step further. Under that scenario, there would be many on the Dis who would be name-calling the non-participants as lazy, uninformed pinheads. "Who could be so stupid as to not do research and take advantage of the promotion? Oh well. More for me!" Can't you just see it?

 

[Hikergirl]

Reading this thread i can see why Disney keeps pushing this stuff. Many people are truly willing to pay for just about anything Disney-wise. No criticism from me but it is fascinating.

I agree with those who say that is likely just the beginning of monetizing FP+.

I'm not willing to pay for this because it is "Disney-wise", I'd pay for it at any other park if I felt it was worth it.
I don't RD, I don't get to the parks until the early afternoon, I won't wait in a stand-by line for more than 30 minutes (20 ideally) so if I can pay extra to make sure that I don't have too in order to ride the few rides I want to ride I have no problem doing that. That doesn't matter if I'm at WDW or Six Flags.
We've paid for express passes at other FL parks long before WDW offered this so for me it is more of a it's about time they jumped on the bandwagon type thing. At this price point with the 3 day minimum it isn't worth it for my whole family, but dh and I are planning another F&W trip this fall and if we stay CL we'd probably do this for the 2 of us.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I'm not willing to pay for this because it is "Disney-wise", I'd pay for it at any other park if I felt it was worth it.
I don't RD, I don't get to the parks until the early afternoon, I won't wait in a stand-by line for more than 30 minutes (20 ideally) so if I can pay extra to make sure that I don't have too in order to ride the few rides I want to ride I have no problem doing that. That doesn't matter if I'm at WDW or Six Flags.
We've paid for express passes at other FL parks long before WDW offered this so for me it is more of a it's about time they jumped on the bandwagon type thing. At this price point with the 3 day minimum it isn't worth it for my whole family, but dh and I are planning another F&W trip this fall and if we stay CL we'd probably do this for the 2 of us.

Ditto. We went to Universal Hollywood last Jan for one day only — with no intention of coming back anytime soon. Did the VIP tour and would do it again in a heartbeat. Did everything we wanted to at a reasonable pace, and didn’t have to research the heck out of the trip.

It’s not just a Disney thing.

 

[epcotty]

Walt was the creative genius of the family, but he wasn't necessarily the business genius. Former Disneyland president, Jack Lindquist, is quoted in several accounts as saying: “Everyone thinks Disney was a tremendous success right from day one. It was from a public standpoint, but not financially. For the first two-and-a-half years, we operated 34 weeks of the year in the red and 18 weeks in the black. Not a good business plan." If there is a financial genius in the early days, it was Roy Disney, who always echoed his brother's dreams in public but imposed the fiscal discipline in private. Without him, Disneyland would never have been built --and it certainly wouldn't have survived, and WDW would've never been completed. He is the one who channeled Walt's vision into profitability. After Roy's death, the company deteriorated quickly. The company was only keeping prices up with inflation, but it was falling apart.



By the 1980s, the company was in really bad shape. Ticket prices had lagged seriously. The company was so timid about increasing prices that it wasn't generating enough cash to justify the land that Disneyland was built on. Corporate raiders set their sights on hostile takeovers, seeking to tear down the theme park and build tract housing. For a moment, the company was about to be broken up and sold off into pieces. The danger only passed when the Disney family brought (the oft hated, by fans) Michael Eisner into the company, who took a heavy hand in finally pricing Disney parks based on what guests were willing to pay. But it saved the company. It ensured that Comcast would not successfully take over in the 2000s. And now Disney is very strong and buying up other companies like ABC, Marvel, Lucasfilms, Fox (instead of being bought).

Good history. But the point still remains that under every previous CEO the prices stayed a lot more in line with inflation in regards to what the price would have to be at the time to roughly equal what people were paying earlier on. Under Eisner later on, the prices were still going a bit past inflation with the increases, but absolutely nothing like the outpacing of inflation we've gotten in the past 12 years (and now it's the accumulation of all that)

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Good history. But the point still remains that under every previous CEO the prices stayed a lot more in line with inflation in regards to what the price would have to be at the time to roughly equal what people were paying earlier on. Under Eisner later on, the prices were still going a bit past inflation with the increases, but absolutely nothing like the outpacing of inflation we've gotten in the past 12 years (and now it's the accumulation of all that)

Have you compared Disney price increases with competitors’? With other luxury/leisure items? Time series data for one company doesn’t provide enough info to analyze.

 

[Magic_Man]

Have you compared Disney price increases with competitors’? With other luxury, leisure items?

Perhaps I am the proverbial frog in the pot of water as it boils. I've been going to WDW since 1972 and never really considered it to be a luxury vacation. We paid $49 per night for a room at the Contemporary when a typical roadside Howard Johnson's was $25. Yes, the Contemporary was an "upgrade". But not a leap to luxury. WDW was filled with middle America (and I don't mean that in any negative way whatsoever.) If you asked the average guy walking down Main Street in 1978 if he thought he was taking a luxury vacation, the answer would be be an easy "no". But I guess that stems from the fact that there was only the MK back then and a trip to WDW was a two or three day diversion (at most--for many it was a day visit with a one night hotel stay out by Xanadu: Home of the Future) with park food and not an 8 day vacation replete with Signature Dining. So I think we need to be mindful of the notion that WDW can't be tracked over time as a luxury vacation. It wasn't always such. Somewhere along the line it became one. It was just six years ago that I booked a park view tower room in the Contemporary for $240 per night. Still not "luxury" in my book. Now, it is almost impossible to find that same room for less than $550 and in most cases, $700 which certainly counts as luxury for me now.

 

[LSUmiss]

Perhaps I am the proverbial frog in the pot of water as it boils. I've been going to WDW since 1972 and never really considered it to be a luxury vacation. We paid $49 per night for a room at the Contemporary when a typical roadside Howard Johnson's was $25. Yes, the Contemporary was an "upgrade". But not a leap to luxury. WDW was filled with middle America (and I don't mean that in any negative way whatsoever.) If you asked the average guy walking down Main Street in 1978 if he thought he was taking a luxury vacation, the answer would be be an easy "no". But I guess that stems from the fact that there was only the MK back then and a trip to WDW was a two or three day diversion with park food and not an 8 day vacation replete with Signature Dining. So I think we need to be mindful of the notion that WDW can't be tracked over time as a luxury vacation. It wasn't always such. Somewhere along the line it became one. It was just six years ago that I booked a park view tower room in the Contemporary for $240 per night. Still not "luxury" in my book. Now, it is almost impossible to find that same room for less than $550 and in most cases, $700 which certainly counts as luxury for me now.

IMO, vacation itself is a luxury & was back then too. It’s not that WDW is/was a luxury vacation. There are many families that cannot or could not afford to vacation anywhere. No one is entitled to a vacation. I went to WDW once as a kid, but it with an aunt/uncle & cousin. My dad couldn’t afford to take us or to take off of work to take us. We were not impoverished by any means, but that was a luxury he couldn’t afford. I think it is still largely middle income ppl who visit. There are now just a large variety in the levels of things available. So you can make luxury if you want, but you don’t have to.

 

[Magic_Man]

So you can make luxury if you want, but you don’t have to.

I agree completely with this. But somehow there is a tangent on this thread that assumes as fact that a trip to WDW is by definition a luxury.

 

[bryanb]

I agree completely with this. But somehow there is a tangent on this thread that assumes as fact that a trip to WDW is by definition a luxury.

I thought your note about the $49/night rooms at the Contemporary was really interesting and illustrative. According to some random website I found on Google (http://www.usinflationcalculator.com) that is equivalent to about $289.16 in 2018 dollars. But of course, $289.16 would be a "bargain" since most nights, rooms at the Contemporary go for $400 or higher. The Contemporary strikes me as a nice, innovative design in a great location, but not a "high-end" hotel.

I guess it depends on how one defines luxury. Most Disney resorts don't fit my stereotypical idea of a luxury place, with high-end cars valeted in front, with butlers and fine wines and caviar on offer. But being able to drop a $2,000+ on a vacation is a "luxury" that most median-income Americans don't take for granted.