Sending Kids to School Today

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Three schools in Jax went on lockdown today because of a shooting outside the elementary school. The kid (who attends the high school 2 blocks away) ran into the school parking lot to hide behind cars, but was shot multiple times. It was a drive by type shooting. One bullet struck the elementary school office window. Not a school shooting, but it will probably be listed as one as it technically happened on school property.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/shooting-reported-near-3-arlington-schools-prompts-safety-lockdowns


Our superintendent did a robocall today, letting parents know they are doing everything they can to keep our kids safe, and to remind our kids it's ok to tell if someone says or does something they think is unsafe.
That is really great that they reiterate that. Always trust your gut!

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I was mildly irritated that it was a discussion in my children's 5th grade classrooms today(they told me about it when they got home). It only bothered me because my son is having some anxiety issues that we are already working through. I didn't want to add to that.
 
My 9yo was pretty rattled, I think because they've done drills and the staff recently went through active shooter training. Her teacher did ask permission to speak to the kids about it, in a reassuring way (not "it can't happen here", but stressing the safety precautions in place and the nature of the school/parish community) and to ask the children to pray for the victims. Her teacher has a friend in FL whose son was among the injured. :(

My high schooler probably knew about it as soon as I did - she has almost as many news apps on her phone as I have on mine - but really, this is so "normal" for her generation that it just doesn't seem to have the impact on them that it does on us as parents.
 
My kids are grown, and I feel bad for the parents today sending their kids to school, because these shootings can happen at any school. My grandson is 4 now, and I’m already worried about his safety for when he starts school.

ETA Seeing pictures on TV of the kids who were killed, really brought it home for me. They aren’t just names, they were living, breathing, human beings who are no longer alive. Their lives were cut short, and it’s just so unfair. Prayers for their friends and families.
 
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We discussed it last night at dinner. 9th and 6th graders who have been on perimeter lockdown twice already this school year due to police activity in the area. Middle and high schools are on the same campus. My kids seem desensitized to it all at this point. After all, what is their alternative? They have to go to school everyday.

I was alone while watching the news early this morning and saw the cell phone footage. I wept. Those kids. I cannot even imagine and I fear for all the kids in the US.



You could move to Hawaii instead of leaving the US. The "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument falls flat there. Amazingly low gun ownership, amazingly little gun violence there. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Two weeks after we moved back to the mainland the Aurora theater shooting happened. I was like, well, we're back to all this now.

I really thought we might see changes after Sandy Hook. But no one, I mean no one, is willing to take on the NRA.

No one is willing to take on the mental illness epidemic that is rampant now. The NRA and 2nd Amendment have nothing to do with this at all. We used to help the mentally ill or at least institutionalize them. We didn't use to drug our kids. We used to monitor people who have been through the LE system, as this adult male was since he was a child, but apparently we don't anymore.
 
No one is willing to take on the mental illness epidemic that is rampant now. The NRA and 2nd Amendment have nothing to do with this at all. We used to help the mentally ill or at least institutionalize them. We didn't use to drug our kids. We used to monitor people who have been through the LE system, as this adult male was since he was a child, but apparently we don't anymore.

At some point, the rights of the mentally ill/criminals became more important than the rights of the "normal" human being. We became more concerned with letting big John have the right to not be locked up or drugged to stop aberrant behavior than being concerned with little Susie's right to live and grow without being attacked.

I understand that the system was widely abused. People were put into hospitals and treatments performed that were unnecessary. People were treated inhumanely. That had to stop.

But there has to be a balance in there somewhere. We have revamped the rules on what it means to be mentally ill; it's time to revamp the rules on treatment of these individuals.

And sometimes, it's not about being mentally ill. It's about being a bad person.

I saw there were claims that the shooter was "hearing voices"; he is the age where schizophrenia is often diagnosed. Hearing voices an easy thing to claim (true or untrue) because you can't prove the voices are really being heard. It's not something tangible that you have video of or can hold in your hand.

So, is he a bad person or is he mentally ill or is he both? And how do we, as a society, find a way to balance his rights against the rights of the other 1,000 people he came in contact with that day?

I don't know, just like I don't know how to fix the gun issue in America. I do know, though, that the only way we are going to fix things is if we stop fighting each other, and start fighting the problem, together. People need to listen to others opinions, and give them the courtesy of trying to understand them; and we need to find a way to meet in the middle. We need to find a way to help those that are mentally ill, protect and care for our citizens, and keep the law balanced so that we all are represented and protected. Until we do that...nothing will change.
 
I do know, though, that the only way we are going to fix things is if we stop fighting each other, and start fighting the problem, together. People need to listen to others opinions, and give them the courtesy of trying to understand them; and we need to find a way to meet in the middle. We need to find a way to help those that are mentally ill, protect and care for our citizens, and keep the law balanced so that we all are represented and protected. Until we do that...nothing will change.

And that's why I have absolutely no hope this is getting better any time soon. I don't think we're capable as of that as a nation any longer. And it goes for both sides.
 
Let's not stigmatize the mentally ill too much. They seem to be the convenient scapegoat of both sides. The reality is that the vast, vast majority of the mentally ill, even those seriously mentally ill, are very unlikely to commit violent crimes. They are much more likely to be the victims of violent crime. It does not help to simply say "get rid of the mentally ill and institutionalize them." How about we get rid of domestic terrorist organizations instead? That's what a lot of these shooters seem to have in common...affiliation and affinity with white nationalists, whom we seem to conveniently ignore.
 
Let's not stigmatize the mentally ill too much. They seem to be the convenient scapegoat of both sides. The reality is that the vast, vast majority of the mentally ill, even those seriously mentally ill, are very unlikely to commit violent crimes. They are much more likely to be the victims of violent crime. It does not help to simply say "get rid of the mentally ill and institutionalize them." How about we get rid of domestic terrorist organizations instead? That's what a lot of these shooters seem to have in common...affiliation and affinity with white nationalists, whom we seem to conveniently ignore.
Exactly. Crack down on those organizations whose purpose is to hurt those who oppose them.
 
Let's not stigmatize the mentally ill too much. They seem to be the convenient scapegoat of both sides. The reality is that the vast, vast majority of the mentally ill, even those seriously mentally ill, are very unlikely to commit violent crimes. They are much more likely to be the victims of violent crime. It does not help to simply say "get rid of the mentally ill and institutionalize them." How about we get rid of domestic terrorist organizations instead? That's what a lot of these shooters seem to have in common...affiliation and affinity with white nationalists, whom we seem to conveniently ignore.
On the other side...
Let's not stigmatize the guns too much. They seem to be the convenient scapegoat of both sides. The reality is that the vast, vast majority of gun owners, are very unlikely to commit violent crimes. They are much more likely to be the victims of violent crime. It does not help to simply say "get rid of the guns."
 
It is a fact that most mentally ill will never do something like this. And they do seem to have the common factor of these horrible groups they end up being a part of. But don't you think becoming a part of those groups is, in fact, a symptom of their mental illness? They are loners for whatever reason (NOT saying that all loners are mentally ill) and are looking for somewhere to belong Unfortunately they find it in these groups.

The fact is the system failed this kid. Plain and simple. Its not just about guns. Its not just about the mentally ill. Its about fixing those cracks that these kids are falling through.
 
On the other side...
Let's not stigmatize the guns too much. They seem to be the convenient scapegoat of both sides. The reality is that the vast, vast majority of gun owners, are very unlikely to commit violent crimes. They are much more likely to be the victims of violent crime. It does not help to simply say "get rid of the guns."

Gun control doesn't have to black and white.
The NRA and it's supporters seem to reject ANY attempt at common sense restrictions.

May I ask you, are you against the ban of assault weapons? If so, how do you justify that?
This is not a gun for hunting or self defense, it's obviously for causing mass casualties.

I'm truly curious how someone supports the sale of assault weapons, it's mind boggling to me.
If this isn't your position, sorry I misunderstood.
 
On the other side...
Let's not stigmatize the guns too much. They seem to be the convenient scapegoat of both sides. The reality is that the vast, vast majority of gun owners, are very unlikely to commit violent crimes. They are much more likely to be the victims of violent crime. It does not help to simply say "get rid of the guns."
No one is stigmatizing guns, just assault rifles. Why must someone own one of these. What is the purpose of owning an AR-15. I know you will say any gun could have done this which is true but the sole purpose of an AR-15 is to kill another person. No one is going to take your gun.
 
It is a fact that most mentally ill will never do something like this. And they do seem to have the common factor of these horrible groups they end up being a part of. But don't you think becoming a part of those groups is, in fact, a symptom of their mental illness? They are loners for whatever reason (NOT saying that all loners are mentally ill) and are looking for somewhere to belong Unfortunately they find it in these groups.

The fact is the system failed this kid. Plain and simple. Its not just about guns. Its not just about the mentally ill. Its about fixing those cracks that these kids are falling through.


Do I think everyone who supports white nationalists organizations is mentally ill? No. I think they are evil, but not mentally ill. Those organizations have no reason to exist, except to support the marginalization of groups of people and/or to advocate for the eradication of such groups. They are terrorist organizations, and it is mind boggling to me how we treat them differently than ISIS in our minds. To me, they are exactly the same. And, in the last decade, your chances of being murdered by these organizations in the US far exceeds your chances of being killed by ISIS. Yet, which one do we try to do something about? One we completely ignore. To the point that no one is calling the Florida attack for what it was...terrorism.
 
At some point, the rights of the mentally ill/criminals became more important than the rights of the "normal" human being. We became more concerned with letting big John have the right to not be locked up or drugged to stop aberrant behavior than being concerned with little Susie's right to live and grow without being attacked.

I understand that the system was widely abused. People were put into hospitals and treatments performed that were unnecessary. People were treated inhumanely. That had to stop.

But there has to be a balance in there somewhere. We have revamped the rules on what it means to be mentally ill; it's time to revamp the rules on treatment of these individuals.

And sometimes, it's not about being mentally ill. It's about being a bad person.

I saw there were claims that the shooter was "hearing voices"; he is the age where schizophrenia is often diagnosed. Hearing voices an easy thing to claim (true or untrue) because you can't prove the voices are really being heard. It's not something tangible that you have video of or can hold in your hand.

So, is he a bad person or is he mentally ill or is he both? And how do we, as a society, find a way to balance his rights against the rights of the other 1,000 people he came in contact with that day?

I don't know, just like I don't know how to fix the gun issue in America. I do know, though, that the only way we are going to fix things is if we stop fighting each other, and start fighting the problem, together. People need to listen to others opinions, and give them the courtesy of trying to understand them; and we need to find a way to meet in the middle. We need to find a way to help those that are mentally ill, protect and care for our citizens, and keep the law balanced so that we all are represented and protected. Until we do that...nothing will change.
I agree with you.

I just want to say, though (and I know it wasn't just you that mentioned it), that a lot of what happened with the "mental institutions" wasn't just about the niceties of not wanting to do bad things to the mental ill anymore. It was largely that they didn't have the money to care for the people or these types of institutions any longer. Many of the buildings were very old and decrepit, as they were built originally to contain contagious diseases like tuberculosis and leprosy, so they were falling apart. Money just wasn't there to sustain them.

As a nursing student in the 1980s we studied this issue of "de-institutionalizatio" and how it was and would be affecting public health. It's been a big issue, and even back then, lots of our homeless were people that formerly would've been in these institutions as they were unable to cope with living in society, holding a job, etc. Today we can add addictions to the growing list of problems that this population suffers.

Here in Boston we have a massive problem since one of these buildings, which was out on an island, closed a few years ago. Many of the city's homeless used to be bussed to this island nightly, where they got food, a warm bed, clothing, social services, and even medical care. (Our class spent time there to learn about the medical services.) Not only were the buildings in disrepair, the bridge to the island was literally falling apart, so it was torn down. So now, that entire population is on the mainland and it's a public health issue for the city.

But people are right, not all of these people are going to be school shooters. BUT not everyone with mental illness will be connected with all the services they need, for a whole bunch of reasons. Even more so, perhaps, children or young adults, if they don't have anyone to support them in doing so. This young man seems like a perfect storm of problems that led him to where he wound up. I've read that he possibly had fetal alcohol syndrome which affects the brain. I'm sure we'll be hearing lots more about him as the weeks and months go forward. I'm not sure we can always plan with 100% accuracy how to help someone who's mentally ill, but that's where others come in, as well. It takes a village.

I think we also need to look very critically at social media, something everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring. We know that our young people are very affected by it. Depression and anxiety have become very common now in our young folks as a result of this 24/7 culture of pressure of how to look, how to act, what others have that you don't, perfect skin, fun and excitement - sometimes doing things they shouldn't, etc. And also violent video games and movies. Hollywood has plenty to say about a lot of things, but then they go and make movies that are just horrificly violent, line their pockets with the profits, then criticize everyone else. To me, that's hypocritical.
 
Do I think everyone who supports white nationalists organizations is mentally ill? No. I think they are evil, but not mentally ill. Those organizations have no reason to exist, except to support the marginalization of groups of people and/or to advocate for the eradication of such groups. They are terrorist organizations, and it is mind boggling to me how we treat them differently than ISIS in our minds. To me, they are exactly the same. And, in the last decade, your chances of being murdered by these organizations in the US far exceeds your chances of being killed by ISIS. Yet, which one do we try to do something about? One we completely ignore. To the point that no one is calling the Florida attack for what it was...terrorism.

But, THIS kid is mentally ill. I don't think everyone who supports nationaists organizations are mentally ill. But not everyone that supports these organizations goes around shooting up schools and churches (still agree they are evil). Most spend their time exercising their freedom of speech (as hateful and evil as the message they are spewing is).

We have to look at the combination of the two.

Do I think these organizations should exist? No. But if we take away their rights as Americans to do this distasteful stuff (rallies, protesting, speeches), what else do we lose in the process?
 
Gun control doesn't have to black and white.
The NRA and it's supporters seem to reject ANY attempt at common sense restrictions.

May I ask you, are you against the ban of assault weapons? If so, how do you justify that?
This is not a gun for hunting or self defense, it's obviously for causing mass casualties.

I'm truly curious how someone supports the sale of assault weapons, it's mind boggling to me.
If this isn't your position, sorry I misunderstood.
I don't know much about guns. I know people who do.

I don't see a need for those types of weapons in the hands of civilians, myself, either.

I do support the right for people to own guns as part of their constitutional rights, and for self protection, if that's what they choose, and for sporting and hunting.

I imagine there are many people who feel similarly.
 
Local law enforcement is saying that he had no ties to white nationalist group.
http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...ist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/
Law enforcement visited his home 39 times in the last 7 years
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/shooter-profile-invs/index.html

Cruz's attorneys referred to as a chronic battle with mental illness and depression exacerbated by the recent death of his adoptive mother, which left him without parents.

I don't think you can deny that this specific incident is the result of a known mentally ill person.
 
OP here. I usually don't mind at all when topics diverge in all sorts of interesting directions, but the news thread about the tragedy was already closed because it got into politics. This one was just supposed to be a parenting discussion about helping our kids to deal with their fears as they went back to school. I'm hoping we can keep it that way.
 
My high-school DS did hear about the tragedy in school yesterday, and has been very thoughtful - asking me questions about when these sort of incidents started happening, that sort of thing.

He seems to be doing OK, but I'm definitely glad we're on break next week.
 
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