College entrance cheating scandal

[bcla]

This is seemingly a much more significant situation and it's no harm, no foul, a victimless crime because they can't stand up and specifically name someone in this fraud as the reason they didn't get to attend the school of their choice, one they actually were legitimately qualified to matriculate into?

It’s a numbers game. I’d venture that the majority of applicants to Yale could probably graduate if accepted/enrolled. But the acceptance rate is under 10%. The other issue is that there aren’t many more spaces compared to 40 years ago even though the student age population had doubled.

Of course the value is often less about the quality of the education than about the exclusivity.

 

[lifesavacation]

The article I read says that bribes were also paid to people with the ACT and SAT organizations so that the guy in Florida could submit a test he did with the applicants name on it. Some of the bribes paid were pretty ridiculous. A rowing coach got $400 k. A Tennis Coach nearly the same. I can imagine that they get paid very little (being non revenue sports) and that those kinds of numbers could certainly get them to do things. Paying money to get your kid into USC seems like a waste. (I know i will get bashed for that one)

As others have pointed out the value of an Ivy League Education is not in the education part, it is in the opening of doors, the connections, the possibilities it creates. I am from Texas and the two big schools are University of Texas and Texas A&M. There is tremendous value in degrees from either of those with limitations. If you want to work and live in Texas upon graduation they are the best degrees to have. Move out of state and they carry much less weight. I am sure that is applicable all over the country for certain state schools. Ivy League transends them because it is nationally and internationally valued.

I just laugh as these things happen because they will always happen. The rich will always use there wealth, power and position to their advantage. It has always been this way and nothing I see moving forward will change that. I am just a little happier and a little satisfied today that this has been exposed. It won't mean a thing to any kid that didn't get their school of choice but it at least knocks a little shine off some elites.

Yeah, I'm having a hard time figuring out why USC would be worth a 500K fee. Maybe it has a really good acting program?

 

[bcla]

As others have pointed out the value of an Ivy League Education is not in the education part, it is in the opening of doors, the connections, the possibilities it creates. I am from Texas and the two big schools are University of Texas and Texas A&M. There is tremendous value in degrees from either of those with limitations. If you want to work and live in Texas upon graduation they are the best degrees to have. Move out of state and they carry much less weight. I am sure that is applicable all over the country for certain state schools. Ivy League transends them because it is nationally and internationally valued.

At least in my field, at least the UT and TAMU flagship campuses are well respected. I don’t know if they would exactly bring in an Ivy League level of connections or door opening, but they would help somewhat with the 5 second resume scan - especially if it’s a recent graduate looking at an entry level job.

I’ve dealt somewhat in recruiting - at least I was drafted into representing my company at a campus job fair. It was open to anyone and not all attendees were attending this school. Before I handed the resumes to our HR, one coworker wanted a look at the resumes. He was definitely critiquing resumes according to the reputation of the school. He had attended a school in Canada before grad school in the US, and he saw one Canadian school listed which he dismissed as a lower tier.

 

[bcla]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time figuring out why USC would be worth a 500K fee. Maybe it has a really good acting program?

I hear they’ve been working hard in recent years to try and improve their reputation and how they do in rankings. But when I was looking at college applications decades ago, USC was seen as a jock school as well as one that rich families sent their kids when they couldn’t get into other schools (including some public schools). Certainly the reputation of other schools in Southern California (Caltech, UCLA) we’re higher.

However, one of the schools in this scandal is UCLA.

 

[disneypharm]

I keep reading comments about USC here. Many are confused why these people have been paying so much money to get their kids to USC. USC is one of the top (probably number 1) film school in the country. Going to USC opens a lot of doors for graduates in Hollywood. If you already have parents or family members in the film industry and education from USC, then that is even better. So, I can see why these parents were willing to pay a lot of money to get their kids in USC.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

My goodness, what an unlikeable person.



Edited to add: I wonder if Olivia Jade will be scrutinized by professors who initially thought their hands were tied when the princess didn't show up for class? I feel this gives a bit more freedom to the instructors. Because I am sure people like Olivia Jade are allowed to do whatever they want and somehow still receive a good grade. Perhaps those days are over? One can only hope.

"Like, like, like, like"

"People like to attack me because I've grown up a different life"

"I just want to be real with you guys, I guess"

"Be back tomorrow with a clothing haul"

 

[cabanafrau]

The article I read says that bribes were also paid to people with the ACT and SAT organizations so that the guy in Florida could submit a test he did with the applicants name on it. Some of the bribes paid were pretty ridiculous. A rowing coach got $400 k. A Tennis Coach nearly the same. I can imagine that they get paid very little (being non revenue sports) and that those kinds of numbers could certainly get them to do things. Paying money to get your kid into USC seems like a waste. (I know i will get bashed for that one)

As others have pointed out the value of an Ivy League Education is not in the education part, it is in the opening of doors, the connections, the possibilities it creates. I am from Texas and the two big schools are University of Texas and Texas A&M. There is tremendous value in degrees from either of those with limitations. If you want to work and live in Texas upon graduation they are the best degrees to have. Move out of state and they carry much less weight. I am sure that is applicable all over the country for certain state schools. Ivy League transends them because it is nationally and internationally valued.

I just laugh as these things happen because they will always happen. The rich will always use there wealth, power and position to their advantage. It has always been this way and nothing I see moving forward will change that. I am just a little happier and a little satisfied today that this has been exposed. It won't mean a thing to any kid that didn't get their school of choice but it at least knocks a little shine off some elites.

Seems like being an SMU alum is also a pretty fabulous calling card, including in the lucrative engineering arena.

 

[asta]

My goodness, what an unlikeable person.



Edited to add: I wonder if Olivia Jade will be scrutinized by professors who initially thought their hands were tied when the princess didn't show up for class? I feel this gives a bit more freedom to the instructors. Because I am sure people like Olivia Jade are allowed to do whatever they want and somehow still receive a good grade. Perhaps those days are over? One can only hope.

"Like, like, like, like"

"People like to attack me because I've grown up a different life"

"I just want to be real with you guys, I guess"

"Be back tomorrow with a clothing haul"

How gullible are the people who watch this garbage. “I just woke up” but she is in full make up. She obviously woke up and put on a lot of eye makeup and then got back in bed to film.

 

[asta]

Small brag here on my school. Vanderbilt was mentioned in the FBI as documents as being too difficult to cheat:

But a key witness and co-conspirator said Vanderbilt's requirements for incoming football players were too stringent to "hide" a student with low grades, according to an affidavit submitted by an FBI agent in the case.

Maybe that explains why our football team is so bad.

 

[cabanafrau]

How gullible are the people who watch this garbage. “I just woke up” but she is in full make up. She obviously woke up and put on a lot of eye makeup and then got back in bed to film.

More significantly she seemed to be continually seeking out prompts from someone else off camera.

A friend told me that this little princess has been on spring break when this all blew up -- with her friends, including longtime friend that is the daughter of the chair of the USC board of trustees, on his yacht no less. If only someone in the family had had the nerve to call up the dear old daddy of longtime friend and ask him to pull strings to get the girls admitted. Not only would they have saved a pile of money, but they would have avoided this whole mess.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

How gullible are the people who watch this garbage. “I just woke up” but she is in full make up. She obviously woke up and put on a lot of eye makeup and then got back in bed to film.

I thought the same thing. But this is the Kardashian era. People like this are somehow worshipped.

More significantly she seemed to be continually seeking out prompts from someone else off camera.

A friend told me that this little princess has been on spring break when this all blew up -- with her friends, including longtime friend that is the daughter of the chair of the USC board of trustees, on his yacht no less. If only someone in the family had had the nerve to call up the dear old daddy of longtime friend and ask him to pull strings to get the girls admitted. Not only would they have saved a pile of money, but they would have avoided this whole mess.

More significantly she seemed to be continually seeking out prompts from someone else off camera.

Yep. And Princess doesn't really, like, seem like, she wants to, like, even apologize. Basically like, someone is forcing her. I am very surprised "literally" wasn't said over and over.

A friend told me that this little princess has been on spring break when this all blew up -- with her friends, including longtime friend that is the daughter of the chair of the USC board of trustees, on his yacht no less.

Holy smokes if that is true!!!

 

[maddiel]

I’ve dealt somewhat in recruiting - at least I was drafted into representing my company at a campus job fair. It was open to anyone and not all attendees were attending this school. Before I handed the resumes to our HR, one coworker wanted a look at the resumes. He was definitely critiquing resumes according to the reputation of the school. He had attended a school in Canada before grad school in the US, and he saw one Canadian school listed which he dismissed as a lower tier.

Really? That seems odd to me. Although there are some schools that are generally seen as better than others in Canada and some schools offer specialized programs that others don't, the field in Canada is a lot more level. There aren't schools that are way way better than others and there don't tend to be schools that are far far worse. It makes the whole application process much easier!

 

[bcla]

Really? That seems odd to me. Although there are some schools that are generally seen as better than others in Canada and some schools offer specialized programs that others don't, the field in Canada is a lot more level. There aren't schools that are way way better than others and there don't tend to be schools that are far far worse. It makes the whole application process much easier!

Well - I'll just say this coworker had a lot of opinions. He also got his Ph.d at Stanford. It was just his opinion of the relative worth of one school. However, he was actually looking over the resumes longer than just 5 seconds. However, it was pretty interesting how he was dismissing certain candidates simply on the basis of what school they went to. And apparently there was a buzz about this job fair such that people around the area who had nothing to do with the campus attended. He wasn't the final arbiter because most of these resumes indicated interest in a different department, but it was kind of interesting how he was able to dismiss certain resumes almost immediately based on the college - even for experienced candidates.

I do remember some doozies though. I was pretty new but understood a little about my company. I was told by our HR director to hand over her business card and tell everyone to separately submit an electronic version of their resume in addition to a paper copy that I would collect. One person was kind of indignant about it, asking "So it's pretty much useless for me to give you a paper copy?" I probably should have marked her resume with "bad attitude". I was under the impression that job candidates weren't supposed to act all bratty and everything.

 

[disney4us2002]

Just another example of Hollywood hypocrisy. Some of those mentioned have been on tv lamenting about honesty and integrity from our government all the while knowing they themselves were full of crap. It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. Sadly, money talks and I doubt much of anything actually happens to them. They will hire big-name, expensive lawyers and pay big fines. Whoopie! Clearly, they have more money than brains so what will actually be the result?

 

[NotUrsula]

More significantly she seemed to be continually seeking out prompts from someone else off camera.

A friend told me that this little princess has been on spring break when this all blew up -- with her friends, including longtime friend that is the daughter of the chair of the USC board of trustees, on his yacht no less. If only someone in the family had had the nerve to call up the dear old daddy of longtime friend and ask him to pull strings to get the girls admitted. Not only would they have saved a pile of money, but they would have avoided this whole mess.

I think that was probably tried. The dad is apparently OJ's dad's golf partner.

I suspect that in this particular case, part of the problem with her applications may have been her Instagram fame. Yes, she was well-known, but not precisely in a good way. Admissions officers routinely check applicants' social media presence, and will rule people out for things like documented evidence of underage drinking or drug use, or as might be possible in this case, something like an on-camera statement that "I really don't care about school".

IME, board members tend to have somewhat limited influences in iffy cases like this one, and they seem to prefer it that way. Unlike actual members of the school administration, they don't have direct authority to just admit (or hire) the kid, and most of them make it a policy to do no more than ask if something can be done. The influence will almost always work in a case like the one described upthread, where the kid had stellar credentials and got wait-listed, but IME, if the admissions office can come back and offer a concrete reason why admission was directly denied, board members will usually withdraw the request.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Just another example of Hollywood hypocrisy. Some of those mentioned have been on tv lamenting about honesty and integrity from our government all the while knowing they themselves were full of crap. It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. Sadly, money talks and I doubt much of anything actually happens to them. They will hire big-name, expensive lawyers and pay big fines. Whoopie! Clearly, they have more money than brains so what will actually be the result?

People were arrested from several walks of life and all over the country. 2-3 of them out of 50 happened to be stars. And you go on a political rant against Hollywood?

 

[DisneyOma]

Imho...It IS a different Overall education experience. The Professors, lecturers, the Caliber of the education is different.

Ever hear students tell u that their professor does not even have Command of the English language? Unable to actually “teach” and has their students read to learn on their own the entire semester?
Not an an Ivy.
Or professors that use their Own publications to “allegedly” teach .. students basically forced to buy their book/s yet never open it for class? Cha Ching, Sale made. Not seeing that at an Ivy. Their books are actually worthy.
Plus....
The Name recognition alone at the Elites Opens doors, networking, contacts.. it’s endless!
Ever think about the students who take a gap and then get admitted to an Ivy...
They often could not get in... but alas, their “ notable” name affords them the ability to
Get in the following year... after experiencing “ life”. Hmmmmm

You’re not asked ur grades at that Interview post Ivy graduation.
You wouldn’t have Gotten that Interview without that Ivy name attached to yours.

I find the actions of these Rich, famous, entitled people ...Despicable.

Any University with these students enrolled should be fully Investigating their Applications for Fraud.

Fraudulent applicants should be Removed. They ve done it before with cheaters.
The Reputations of these Universities and the Hardworking Attendees deserve nothing less.

Amazing how far some will go to cheat the System. And the IRS... a field day!

For all those that do it the correct way and the Universities that demand it...continue to set the Example of Excellence.

Rant Over..
Proud Parent

This is so untrue, it's laughable. The ur in there just sells it, BTW, Yes, going to an Ivy League is all about prestige and making connections. The education isn't any better though. It's just the name. I've had relatives that graduated from Harvard. That place does not impress me. The books aren't any better, the professors aren't either. My aunt worked there and the stories she would tell about the "good old Harvard boys" and how they treated others would make you feel the same way.

Legacy admission is a problem as well. You think some of our presidents would have gotten into Yale, Penn or Harvard on their own merits.

This is just how the old school guard has worked for over a century - entitled, rich, white males sending their entitled, rich, white sons to network for 4 years or so until they were old enough and hopefully mature enough to either join the family business of making more money or head off to law school or med school. Pretty much what the original colleges were all about.

 

[DisneyOma]

My goodness, what an unlikeable person.



Edited to add: I wonder if Olivia Jade will be scrutinized by professors who initially thought their hands were tied when the princess didn't show up for class? I feel this gives a bit more freedom to the instructors. Because I am sure people like Olivia Jade are allowed to do whatever they want and somehow still receive a good grade. Perhaps those days are over? One can only hope.

"Like, like, like, like"

"People like to attack me because I've grown up a different life"

"I just want to be real with you guys, I guess"

"Be back tomorrow with a clothing haul"

Did she drink antifreeze or somesuch? Where are the headphones telling her to inhale and exhale? I couldn't watch more than a few seconds, too painful.

 

[mnrose]

This is so untrue, it's laughable. The ur in there just sells it, BTW, Yes, going to an Ivy League is all about prestige and making connections. The education isn't any better though. It's just the name. I've had relatives that graduated from Harvard. That place does not impress me. The books aren't any better, the professors aren't either. My aunt worked there and the stories she would tell about the "good old Harvard boys" and how they treated others would make you feel the same way.



This is just how the old school guard has worked for over a century - entitled, rich, white males sending their entitled, rich, white sons to network for 4 years or so until they were old enough and hopefully mature enough to either join the family business of making more money or head off to law school or med school. Pretty much what the original colleges were all about.

My experience is the same. I worked with quite a few Harvard educated lawyers (one of the premier law schools in the country, clearly), and they (a) made sure you knew they went to Harvard within 2 minutes of meeting them (all in a professional context, so education was at least somewhat relevant) and (b) they were (as a group) not that impressive to me. I supervised a whole bunch of 'em, with my "fair to middling" public law school degree. Pretty sure they weren't all that happy about that. LOL.

 

[slpeters]

This is so untrue, it's laughable. The ur in there just sells it, BTW, Yes, going to an Ivy League is all about prestige and making connections. The education isn't any better though. It's just the name. I've had relatives that graduated from Harvard. That place does not impress me. The books aren't any better, the professors aren't either. My aunt worked there and the stories she would tell about the "good old Harvard boys" and how they treated others would make you feel the same way.

This is just how the old school guard has worked for over a century - entitled, rich, white males sending their entitled, rich, white sons to network for 4 years or so until they were old enough and hopefully mature enough to either join the family business of making more money or head off to law school or med school. Pretty much what the original colleges were all about.

I guess all I can say is that was not my experience. Yes, a lot of the people I went to school with were very wealthy and some of them made a great deal of that--I certainly knew some of the "good old Harvard boys". But that certainly wasn't the norm. In fact if you said something particularly boneheaded that was the standard joke: "what library did your family donate?" I had a friend who it eventually came to light was spectacularly wealthy. You would never have known it. I think it sort of embarrassed him to be honest. I certainly wasn't. My family not only couldn't afford the tuition we couldn't really afford the room and board. Most of that and all the tuition were picked up by the school--plus I was given a job (ten hours a week, they thought more than that would interfere with my education). I felt really astonishingly blessed to get to be there. And it seemed to me that the educational experience really was different. Certainly a lot of that has to do with the fact that there is so much money behind a school like Harvard, but, well there just is. I guess in a way I don't really know how different it was. After all I never went to undergrad anywhere else, after all. But you just hear stories of perfunctory teachers that the students hardly even knew and, well, it just wasn't like that for me as an undergrad. You were really there interacting in a daily way with people who were really central to their fields. Plus there was the student body which frankly I think made the biggest difference. Most of my classmates were a big deal where they came from in some way or another--valedictorians, champions in this or that. And then you get to college and everyone's like that. Your extraordinary is completely and utterly normal. And you kind of have to claw your way back from that, all the while surrounded by people who have really managed to do something with their life by the time they're eighteen. It's an extraordinary experience and frankly the notion that someone else who might have been plucked out of their little life like I was and given this amazing experience might have missed out because someone else cheated saddens me...