The Intersection of FIRE and Disney

Wow, thank you so much for this and the breakdown. I had no idea. I could find the % of what the target fund was made up off lol. I’m so clueless.

Are you not worried about diversifying a bit more? I know VTSAX is the total market but you don’t want any international?

Also, are you AllinVTSAX on Reddit?
Also should add - Clueless is not the word I'd use to describe you... You just hadn't learned yet! Target Date Funds are perfect for 95%+ of investors, many of whom barely understand why they'd want to invest in the first place. You know the folks...the ones who aren't even taking advantage of the full match at their company's 401k.

@speedyfishy - you are here. You are taking your financial destiny into your own hands. You aren't clueless - you are CURIOUS! I don't think anybody here (or anywhere for that matter) has all of the right answers but by taking the time to have a dialogue and then follow up with personal research - you are well ahead of almost all your peers in your age group!

Vanguard's 2060 target fund (VTTSX) is just a fund of funds...with a 0.15% expense ratio (which is still pretty awesome). But it costs money to manage a fund of funds...so if you just figure out the breakdown and invest in those funds directly you actually can cut that exp. ratio by over half! And I know 0.08% sounds minuscule (and it is) but over the course of 15 years of saving and a 40 year retirement it could amount to an entire year's living expenses being saved in expense ratios. And that's nothing to laugh at.
 
Also should add - Clueless is not the word I'd use to describe you... You just hadn't learned yet! Target Date Funds are perfect for 95%+ of investors, many of whom barely understand why they'd want to invest in the first place. You know the folks...the ones who aren't even taking advantage of the full match at their company's 401k.

@speedyfishy - you are here. You are taking your financial destiny into your own hands. You aren't clueless - you are CURIOUS! I don't think anybody here (or anywhere for that matter) has all of the right answers but by taking the time to have a dialogue and then follow up with personal research - you are well ahead of almost all your peers in your age group!

Vanguard's 2060 target fund (VTTSX) is just a fund of funds...with a 0.15% expense ratio (which is still pretty awesome). But it costs money to manage a fund of funds...so if you just figure out the breakdown and invest in those funds directly you actually can cut that exp. ratio by over half! And I know 0.08% sounds minuscule (and it is) but over the course of 15 years of saving and a 40 year retirement it could amount to an entire year's living expenses being saved in expense ratios. And that's nothing to laugh at.

Aww thanks. I had no idea about investing until like 2 years ago. It’s a process learning and you have been a great help. I do want to lower my expense ratios. It’s almost half if I just do it myself and since we are still young the expenses will add up over the years. I’m adding to my goals for this year to research and get out of that fund. lol you have been a huge help and I really appreciate you taking the time to explain and give me some resources to look at.
 
I was 100% in equities until March 2017.

Asset allocation is hard, and many theories exist for portfolio allocation. You have to do what works best for your particular situation. But it’s nice to hear what other people are doing.

You could buy total stock or S&P or whatever index you want. But pay attention to fees. Jack Bogle does a great job of covering this in his book. He founded Vanguard.
 
Nice.

I’m buying PE firms and REITs for the higher dividends and distributions. I don’t know when this market is going to turn. I have 35% in 3 and 6 month Treasuries that I bought at auction through my broker. It gives me dry powder for when this market turns.

It’s tough being at the end of the cycle.

You are investing for the long term, patience is a virtue. I've been hording cash - and spending it. We are investing in solar for the house this Summer - its a long term investment in the Earth's future. And I have two in college, so we are in a drain down mode.
 


Most of mine is in Vanguard funds as well (VFIAX), but I also "collect" stock. If a company I know is fundamentally sound and I think it has a good price and I have $1000 to put into it, I'll buy $1000 worth of shares. I own Berkshire so I can go to the meetings. I own some Disney as a sentimental pick (bought at a "sale" point). I own some utilities and telecoms for the dividends (and a utility based ETF). I've owned the same bond fund for 30 years - it isn't a great one, but I don't want the taxes on selling it just to move into a better one.
 
You are investing for the long term, patience is a virtue. I've been hording cash - and spending it. We are investing in solar for the house this Summer - its a long term investment in the Earth's future. And I have two in college, so we are in a drain down mode.

I hate hearing about long term. I have been working for 20 years. Half of those years the S&P has been flat.

I want more diversification across asset classes at this point in the cycle.

It’s easy to say you won’t sell when the market turns. However, I saw a lot of people get laid off in the last recession that were forced to sell off their equity positions while they hunted for jobs.

I’ll give up some returns for peace of mind. I’m still saving 30-40% of my gross income each year, so I feel good about that.
 
I am trying to read and learn, but I am truly clueless. Like way under @speedyfishy. lol When I stopped working we rolled my 401k into an IRA (and I am saying that because I think that is what we did, lol, like I hear people saying those words so I guess that's what I did). We have it at Metlife because we were talking to a guy from there at that time and we haven't looked at it since. I have zero idea what it is in. Should I move it somewhere else, like a different company? It is a small portion compared to my DHs 401K, so we really just kind of forgot about it. And if I should move it, how do I move it? Talk to me like a 3 year old. DH generally knows about this stuff, but like I said, we just have kind of ignored this money. We have 3 small accounts at Met Life, totaling about $100k at this time. One is the 401K rollover, and then we each have a separate IRA? I am not sure what they are, but I have 2 separate accounts and DH has 1. Can it even be moved or is that considered a withdrawal? I am clueless.
 


I am trying to read and learn, but I am truly clueless. Like way under @speedyfishy. lol When I stopped working we rolled my 401k into an IRA (and I am saying that because I think that is what we did, lol, like I hear people saying those words so I guess that's what I did). We have it at Metlife because we were talking to a guy from there at that time and we haven't looked at it since. I have zero idea what it is in. Should I move it somewhere else, like a different company? It is a small portion compared to my DHs 401K, so we really just kind of forgot about it. And if I should move it, how do I move it? Talk to me like a 3 year old. DH generally knows about this stuff, but like I said, we just have kind of ignored this money. We have 3 small accounts at Met Life, totaling about $100k at this time. One is the 401K rollover, and then we each have a separate IRA? I am not sure what they are, but I have 2 separate accounts and DH has 1. Can it even be moved or is that considered a withdrawal? I am clueless.

These questions are too advanced for me. lol But i will ask what are the fees Met Life is charging? I know generally Vanguard, Fidelity, and Schwab have the lower fees.
 
I am trying to read and learn, but I am truly clueless. Like way under @speedyfishy. lol When I stopped working we rolled my 401k into an IRA (and I am saying that because I think that is what we did, lol, like I hear people saying those words so I guess that's what I did). We have it at Metlife because we were talking to a guy from there at that time and we haven't looked at it since. I have zero idea what it is in. Should I move it somewhere else, like a different company? It is a small portion compared to my DHs 401K, so we really just kind of forgot about it. And if I should move it, how do I move it? Talk to me like a 3 year old. DH generally knows about this stuff, but like I said, we just have kind of ignored this money. We have 3 small accounts at Met Life, totaling about $100k at this time. One is the 401K rollover, and then we each have a separate IRA? I am not sure what they are, but I have 2 separate accounts and DH has 1. Can it even be moved or is that considered a withdrawal? I am clueless.

When I moved my money from my 401k to my broker, I received instructions from my broker on how to do the transfer, so I’d start out with figuring out where you want all the money to end up first.
 
I am trying to read and learn, but I am truly clueless. Like way under @speedyfishy. lol When I stopped working we rolled my 401k into an IRA (and I am saying that because I think that is what we did, lol, like I hear people saying those words so I guess that's what I did). We have it at Metlife because we were talking to a guy from there at that time and we haven't looked at it since. I have zero idea what it is in. Should I move it somewhere else, like a different company? It is a small portion compared to my DHs 401K, so we really just kind of forgot about it. And if I should move it, how do I move it? Talk to me like a 3 year old. DH generally knows about this stuff, but like I said, we just have kind of ignored this money. We have 3 small accounts at Met Life, totaling about $100k at this time. One is the 401K rollover, and then we each have a separate IRA? I am not sure what they are, but I have 2 separate accounts and DH has 1. Can it even be moved or is that considered a withdrawal? I am clueless.

And this is why it took me 3 years to finally roll my old 401 into my new one. You should be able to move the accounts to wherever you want, you just need to pull the money out and redeposit it within 60 days, or it will be considered a withdrawl. You may need to be able to document that the origination of the 401 account was a valid pre-tax 401k, but the IRAs should not be too hard to move.

I will say that I got reams of paper from my prior employer's plan - all kinds of documentation of the kind of plan my money had originally been held in, letters from the IRS certifying that it was a valid 401k etc. Crazy amounts of info. I plan to keep copies of everything - who knows what I will need down the road!

These questions are too advanced for me. lol But i will ask what are the fees Met Life is charging? I know generally Vanguard, Fidelity, and Schwab have the lower fees.

Seems like the fee thing is what most FIRE folks focus on - makes sense, esp. because the whole FIRE thing is reducing your expenses everywhere you can to facilitate saving/investing. I agree with the discussion that trying to beat the market is mostly a losing game, so focusing on minimizing fees is a good way to set yourself up for success.

I'm still mostly in institutional plans, my non-401k savings are mostly in CDs because college is coming up quick. But I was looking and there seems to be discounts on managed funds through my company with Fidelity (which runs the company's 401k plan), so I'm looking into whether that makes sense for us, since I'm maxing out 401k contributions these days and need to look at some other vehicles.

I also found out that I have a few thousand dollars in this weird annuity based plan that my old company was running for the first couple of years I worked there. In order to roll it over, I have to get something notarized (with DH's signature too!) I'm torn between dealing with it (so that everything would be in one place) or letting it ride as an outlier alternative investment. Its not enough money to make a difference one way or another.
 
I am trying to read and learn, but I am truly clueless. Like way under @speedyfishy. lol When I stopped working we rolled my 401k into an IRA (and I am saying that because I think that is what we did, lol, like I hear people saying those words so I guess that's what I did). We have it at Metlife because we were talking to a guy from there at that time and we haven't looked at it since. I have zero idea what it is in. Should I move it somewhere else, like a different company? It is a small portion compared to my DHs 401K, so we really just kind of forgot about it. And if I should move it, how do I move it? Talk to me like a 3 year old. DH generally knows about this stuff, but like I said, we just have kind of ignored this money. We have 3 small accounts at Met Life, totaling about $100k at this time. One is the 401K rollover, and then we each have a separate IRA? I am not sure what they are, but I have 2 separate accounts and DH has 1. Can it even be moved or is that considered a withdrawal? I am clueless.

I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad. I don't know if it would be the wrong advice or not, but I think even if you don't know what you are investing in, don't know what fees you are paying, you are still probably way ahead than if you hadn't done anything. And who knows by just leaving it alone you may have more money than if you messed around with it. I would start with looking at your statement and see how much the account is making. Sometimes right on the statement they have a comparison to the different indexes, so that could give you an idea if you want to move it. Or do you have a financial advisor who could help you sort through that? As far as moving it, when you "rollover" something, that really just means moving it. The only you want to make sure of is that you never see the money or you would have to pay taxes and possible penalty maybe because it is looked at as a withdrawal, even if you turn around and put it into an IRA. So you would just initiate a transfer directly from the new company that you are starting an IRA with.
 
With CD rates and Treasury rates nearly the same, I wonder why folks that live in states with state taxes aren’t opting for Treasuries over CDs for the same duration?
 
I am trying to read and learn, but I am truly clueless. Like way under @speedyfishy. lol When I stopped working we rolled my 401k into an IRA (and I am saying that because I think that is what we did, lol, like I hear people saying those words so I guess that's what I did). We have it at Metlife because we were talking to a guy from there at that time and we haven't looked at it since. I have zero idea what it is in. Should I move it somewhere else, like a different company? It is a small portion compared to my DHs 401K, so we really just kind of forgot about it. And if I should move it, how do I move it? Talk to me like a 3 year old. DH generally knows about this stuff, but like I said, we just have kind of ignored this money. We have 3 small accounts at Met Life, totaling about $100k at this time. One is the 401K rollover, and then we each have a separate IRA? I am not sure what they are, but I have 2 separate accounts and DH has 1. Can it even be moved or is that considered a withdrawal? I am clueless.

Okay--apologies in advance if I talk slow (ha ha!), but I want you to get this.

First off, you're doing fine. Some of us love to get into the nitty-gritty details of investing. It's PERFECTLY OKAY if you don't. I'm an electrical engineer--I do math for sport--so this stuff is like catnip for me. The rest of my family--not so much, although there's hope for DS13 (he tracks several stocks he likes on his phone--it warms my heart!).

Now, when you leave a company, there are typically 3 things that you can do with a 401k: leave it there, cash it out, or roll it over into an IRA. It looks like you rolled it over. Now, you can't roll it into an existing IRA, you have to set up a new one, which it looks like you did (hence the three different accounts with Met Life).

These accounts are probably fine where they are, but I have a couple of concerns. The first is, you don't seem to know how much is in them. You should be getting statements, at least annually. You might be getting them via email. We get paper ones, for two reasons: (1) our assets/accounts are fairly complex, and (2) DH would rather hold the piece of paper in his hand. He has a ton of accounts all over, and it just helps him to keep track of them. This is very much personal preference.

My second concern is that you don't seem to know what the fee structure is, where you currently have these accounts. You need to find this out. For all I know they could have low fees, but I tend to doubt it. Among investors who are into this kind of thing, the low-fee companies are well known--Vanguard is excellent. It was founded by John Bogle. You hear Bogleheads mentioned on here, and there's a whole website with its own forums and articles which might help educate you. I will warn you that these are people who also love this kind of thing, so you might feel a little weird over there, but you could read and gain knowledge, if you're interested.

At any rate, you might be better off switching from Met Life to Vanguard or another less-fee company. If you do a switch, you need to get established at the new company. They'll set up the three accounts, then you can file paperwork to transfer your money over to them. A check should never touch your hands. If one does, you have 60 days to get it into a new, tax-deferred account, but it shouldn't happen.

We've been going through this--my MIL died in 2017, and DH has had to handle (and split with his brother) 7 inherited IRAs, a couple CMAs (cash-management accounts) a bunch of individual stocks, insurance proceeds, 529s, regular checking, a revokable trust, and several trusts for our children. Whew! The only checks that landed in our hands were from life insurance payouts--everything was handled by our financial advisor and rolled from the estate accounts into the various counterparts under DH's control. I don't want to go into too much detail because your head is probably already spinning. I will say that, barely 20 months later, the final transfer finally took place (the 529 for our kids was the holdout).

Also, I use a financial planner. yes, they cost money, and not everyone is a fan. We're happy (we use Northwest Mutual, FYI). If you decide to look for one, stay away from Edward Jones. If you're curious or bored, go to the Bogleheads forum and type in "Edward Jones". They aren't trained in getting a good deal, more in churning your accounts and racking up fees.
 
I hate hearing about long term. I have been working for 20 years. Half of those years the S&P has been flat.

I want more diversification across asset classes at this point in the cycle.

It’s easy to say you won’t sell when the market turns. However, I saw a lot of people get laid off in the last recession that were forced to sell off their equity positions while they hunted for jobs.

I’ll give up some returns for peace of mind. I’m still saving 30-40% of my gross income each year, so I feel good about that.

Its easy for me to say because I can live off my cash on hand for a year or longer if zero money is coming in, its unlikely I'd have to sell off my equity positions. I'm not sure who would do this any other way - if you have to sell off in a down market because you are unemployed - you are doing it wrong.
 
Thanks for all the help! But I am still clueless. lol I know how much is in the accounts, but the fees, I have no idea. How do I find that? I looked all over my log in, but I guess I don't know what I am looking for, besides the word fee. lol And I don't see that. I started out with @$40k in Jan 2006 and now have slightly more than $80k in my 401k one. I just want to say my DH is not as clueless as me, lol. But I think he said a long time ago this is my money and I should decide what to do with it. And doing nothing but status quo is what I have been doing.

This is what it says I am in, kind of confused on the 101%
MetLife Mid Cap Stock Index Portfolio (Class B) 10.0%
MetLife MSCI EAFE Index Portfolio 20.0%
MetLife Russell 2000 Index Portfolio (Class B) 10.0%
MetLife Stock Index Portfolio (Class B) 61.0%
 
Hmmm, I may have found something that says 0.25%. Is that it? Gosh, I am feeling really not smart.

From the prospectus:
This charge has two components. The first pays the investment managers for managing money in the Portfolios. The second consists of Portfolio operating expenses and 12b-1 Plan fees. The percentage You pay for the investment-related charge depends on which Divisions You select. Each class of shares available to the Deferred Annuities has a 12b-1 Plan fee, which pays for distribution expenses. The class of shares available in Brighthouse Trust I and Brighthouse Trust II is Class B, which has a 0.25% 12b-1 Plan fee (except for the American Funds® Balanced Allocation, American Funds® Growth Allocation, American Funds® Growth and American Funds® Moderate Allocation Portfolios of Brighthouse Trust I, which are Class C and have a 0.55% 12b-1 Plan fee). Class 2 shares of the available American Funds® have a 0.25% 12b-1 Plan fee. Investment-related changes for each Portfolio for the previous year are listed in the “Table of Expenses.”
 
This is what it says I am in, kind of confused on the 101%
MetLife Mid Cap Stock Index Portfolio (Class B) 10.0%
MetLife MSCI EAFE Index Portfolio 20.0%
MetLife Russell 2000 Index Portfolio (Class B) 10.0%
MetLife Stock Index Portfolio (Class B) 61.0%

I’m confused too by the percentages.

You’re basically all in equities domestic and international. I’m sure there is overlap across some of those funds.

I’d look at the details behind those funds. Also, why that mix?

I’d also read Bogle’s book on Common Sense investing. It starts from the ground up, so it’s very accessible.
 
The 101% is just due to rounding.

Yeah, it looks like your fee is 0.25%. They sure don't make it easy to figure out, though, do they? That's not horrible--probably, you could do better, but I wouldn't be in a rush to switch unless/until you have a solid idea of where you want to go.

Your mix of funds is interesting. I'm not seeing the logic, but it's not my money. It does look like there's overlap--sometimes, this can't be avoided, but you have to be aware. I don't know why you have those specific ones, or what your investing strategy is--I'm moderately aggressive, my DH is more so. You also have to look at your allocations over all of your investments, which Met Life may or may not have done.

Quick example--DS22 has a few different investments. He and I talked to our financial planner last week, and the planner pointed out that, due to the different investments/funds, DS22 was too heavily weighted in large cap stocks. This happened because his grandmother put him in some (at T. Rowe Price), then we had put him in some (American Funds). Now that Grandma isn't controlling the one trust anymore, we'll balance across his portfolio. When MIL first died, we just kept everything where she had it (Vanguard, T. Rowe Price, and Merrill Lynch were her choices). We've been gradually moving stuff as we get a handle on things. You know, inheriting mmoney seems so much more fun and easy when they show it on tv!
 
The 101% is just due to rounding.

Yeah, it looks like your fee is 0.25%. They sure don't make it easy to figure out, though, do they? That's not horrible--probably, you could do better, but I wouldn't be in a rush to switch unless/until you have a solid idea of where you want to go.

Your mix of funds is interesting. I'm not seeing the logic, but it's not my money. It does look like there's overlap--sometimes, this can't be avoided, but you have to be aware. I don't know why you have those specific ones, or what your investing strategy is--I'm moderately aggressive, my DH is more so. You also have to look at your allocations over all of your investments, which Met Life may or may not have done.

Quick example--DS22 has a few different investments. He and I talked to our financial planner last week, and the planner pointed out that, due to the different investments/funds, DS22 was too heavily weighted in large cap stocks. This happened because his grandmother put him in some (at T. Rowe Price), then we had put him in some (American Funds). Now that Grandma isn't controlling the one trust anymore, we'll balance across his portfolio. When MIL first died, we just kept everything where she had it (Vanguard, T. Rowe Price, and Merrill Lynch were her choices). We've been gradually moving stuff as we get a handle on things. You know, inheriting mmoney seems so much more fun and easy when they show it on tv!

I got worried about overlap after reading Bull!: History of the boom and bust, 1982-2004. Buffett recommended it in one of his letters. It’s fascinating how these fund companies work, how analysts set price targets, and how the media reports on this circus.
 
Also should add - Clueless is not the word I'd use to describe you... You just hadn't learned yet! Target Date Funds are perfect for 95%+ of investors, many of whom barely understand why they'd want to invest in the first place. You know the folks...the ones who aren't even taking advantage of the full match at their company's 401k.

This is my DS to a T! He has been working at his company 4.5 years, didn't invest in the 401k at first because he wasn't sure he would be there long enough for the match to vest, still hasn't done it! Drives me nuts! I did set him up in a Target date 2060 at Vanguard, and I go in every month and transfer funds into it from his checking account. Not a sustainable model, I may set him up for an automatic transfer soon.
 

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