Coach Holden
James… Sonny… Crockett
- Joined
- May 18, 2018
Sounds like we need Gordon Gecko to give another Teldar Paper speech regarding the over-compensation of executive and vice-presidents
No, I did not say he should be paid the same salary as his lowest paid employee. I said he is only worth as much. If his employees all stop doing their jobs, he won't be worth squat (and your shares will rocket to the bottom too) to the Disney company. Of course he should be compensated for his education and his experience and knowledge.
Those alone would make his pay quite a bit more than most of his employees. But the fact remains he would not be successful with this company or any company if not for the people below him.
False. He should be paid the lowest amount that he is willing to work, which is where he is now. The board has a duty to shareholders to find the best CEO; if they could have found a better CEO that would work for less, then they would have done so. Which is what we all do, right? When we hire handymen, or other workers? Negotiate for the best value at the lowest price? It turns out that he is an excellent CEO, and he would be extremely difficult to replace. There are currently only a handful of truly great CEOs who can generate billions of dollars of wealth for their shareholders. Bezos, Musk, Iger, Nadella, Buffet, Zhang, not a lot more than that.
Also false. If they stopped working, the workers would be replaced, right? And they are adequately payed right? If they could do better, they would have walked by now. No one is holding a gun to their heads.
No they are not adequately paid. Not at all. They are paid below the poverty level for a family of four. (going by the amount listed by a pp).
The CMs are saying it's adequate, right? By not leaving?How do you assume that is "adequate"? IF they could do better? Wow. A bit elitist are we?
If they quit, who will serve you on your vacations? Clean after you? Entertain you? Attitudes like that are the number one problem. Guess what? You aren't better than them.
Everyone that does a job and does it well, deserves to be paid a living wage.
What they make is NOT a living wage. Especially in the high col areas they live in.
A very large percentage of CMs are young, single, and glad to have the experience working at Disney. If they thought they were underpaid, they have other options, but they choose to stay, which means they agree to their salary. If they weren't happy, they would do what all of us do when we can do better: we enter the job market.
The CMs are saying it's adequate, right? By not leaving?
I never said I was better than anyone.
Interesting. So people that don't do their job well don't deserve your "living wage"?
Socialism was discredited a lot of years ago. Paying someone more than their services are worth doesn't make sense. Do you pay your hair cutter more if she has a baby? I know you think you can force those greedy executives to support those poor souls who somehow unlucked themselves into four kids on a CM salary, but the making the salary higher would only really hit Disney investors, the majority of which are elderly retirees on fixed income.
It seems to me that the problem with this (not ethical or moral but just simple practical problem) is that what happens with these marginalized people as we go forward. All that many people can provide to the economy are labor or simple services. If they are compensated at poverty wages for that which they are capable of providing then what options do they have?A very large percentage of CMs are young, single, and glad to have the experience working at Disney. If they thought they were underpaid, they have other options, but they choose to stay, which means they agree to their salary. If they weren't happy, they would do what all of us do when we can do better: we enter the job market.
The CMs are saying it's adequate, right? By not leaving?
I never said I was better than anyone.
Interesting. So people that don't do their job well don't deserve your "living wage"?
Socialism was discredited a lot of years ago. Paying someone more than their services are worth doesn't make sense. Do you pay your hair cutter more if she has a baby? I know you think you can force those greedy executives to support those poor souls who somehow unlucked themselves into four kids on a CM salary, but the making the salary higher would only really hit Disney investors, the majority of which are elderly retirees on fixed income.
A very large percentage of CMs are young, single, and glad to have the experience working at Disney. If they thought they were underpaid, they have other options, but they choose to stay, which means they agree to their salary. If they weren't happy, they would do what all of us do when we can do better: we enter the job market.
The CMs are saying it's adequate, right? By not leaving?
I never said I was better than anyone.
Interesting. So people that don't do their job well don't deserve your "living wage"?
Socialism was discredited a lot of years ago. Paying someone more than their services are worth doesn't make sense. Do you pay your hair cutter more if she has a baby? I know you think you can force those greedy executives to support those poor souls who somehow unlucked themselves into four kids on a CM salary, but the making the salary higher would only really hit Disney investors, the majority of which are elderly retirees on fixed income.
You don’t think that they are worth more than they are paid? You must not think much of what they do.
And I am not talking about socialism. I am talking about an employee being paid a living wage. They are, in fact, working for their paycheck. Not talking about a handout here.
I find it hilarious how many times, right here on this site, it’s said how WDW is one of Florida’s biggest employers. And you think all of those are college kids? Those bus drivers sure are old college kids. And a lot of those working the janitorial staff. And many of those working the hotel desks. And in many other jobs around those parks.
Paying for his education, knowledge and experience would be paying him for the job he has done. That’s where experience and knowledge comes in.
If those folks you don’t think are worth much didn’t do their jobs well, he wouldn’t have the success he does. It’s simply a fact. No business on the planet will succeed without good employees.
Saying that because someone doesn’t go looking for a job must mean they are happy with their pay is unrealistic and completely out of touch. There are many reasons why someone may stay at a job they have.
If you want to avoid socialism you need to make sure capitalism is working for a majority of people that can vote. If it isn’t then socialism becomes increasingly likely.
I said nothing about what they are worth. I said they should be paid the value of their services. If they clean toilets at Disney all day, they probably should be paid about the same as someone who cleans toilets all day at a nearby office building, right? And if the businesses are told "you have to pay them much more because of their financial situation", those businesses would probably revisit whether it is worth it have their toilets cleaned as often, right? Work has a value to the buyer, and if you ask someone to pay more than the work is worth, then they will find something else. That's what anyone would do. As the steward of my family's money, I have an obligation to get the best value for the money I spend, so I can keep some for my children.
It's not unrealistic at all! If you truly have the talents and energy to get a better job than your current position but don't seek another position, you are a fool! So if you stay in your job you are admitting that you can't do better.
Spoken as someone who has never been in a situation where changing jobs is not feasible.
You> "They are paid below the poverty level for a family of four"I didn’t say they should be paid more because of their financial situation. Where do you even get that? I said they should be paid a living wage.
AgreedDisney cannot NOT have the person to clean the toilets. If they do, there is going to be a mess in the parks. Are you going to continue paying the ridiculous amount of money we all pay to visit parks with messy bathrooms? Nor can they do without wait staff or cooks or bus drivers.
Disney needs these people to do these jobs. Goes back to the fact that Iger is only successful because of the people under him.
Yes, work has value to the employer. I ran a small business for years. Child care center. I could match the pay of other centers and pay minimum and get minimum employees. But I had people whose job it was to take care of children. I wanted the best caregivers I could get. So I paid above what other centers paid. As such, I had little turn over in a business that is well known to have a huge turnover. And as such, I had a successful business. But I was successful because of my employees. In business, the best value of your money isn’t always spending less.
Minimum wage was supposed to go up years ago. It was supposed to be a living wage. Now Disney is raising the pay of the employees. I think it will be at $13 an hour in September. But how many have noticed cuts in numbers of CMs? Or how many have had their hours cut? Full time is 32 hours. Not what full time should be. So while their hourly wage may be up, how many are actually bringing home more?
In America we are blessed with an extremely fluid and high-wage job market (thanks to capitalism). So, yes, if you have the talents and energy for a higher paying, you can get one.
You> "They are paid below the poverty level for a family of four"
Agreed
Here's where your argument breaks down. It's true Disney needs people, but it doesn't need _these_ people, it just needs people willing and able to do the job. If everyone quit today, Disney would be stuck for a few days, but they could announce a small pay raise (because they're desperate), and have more than enough applicants beat a path to their door.
Awesome, bully for you. You sound like a 1 in 20 CEO. But Iger is a 1 in a billion CEO. And he has created huge amounts of wealth (created, not moved) for millions of people (the majority of whom are elderly retirees on fixed incomes) while paying a wage you disagree with.
Hey, that may suck in the short term for CMs. But the market is always evolving, and in America, it's always improved. 100 years ago, 90% of us were farmers. If you had told all the farmers 100 years ago that most farming jobs would go away, I'm sure they would have panicked.
Once again, nothing can or should be assumed. Part time at WDW does NOT mean automatically you are being paid minimum wage. Many of the part time employees are part of union representation. WDW has also agreed to increase minimum wage to $15 an hour in the next year or so.
Percent of workers that make minimum:
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2016/home.htmMany of the represented workers are getting a raise:
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-bz-disney-union-contract-20180822-story.htmlTo make the discussion fair, we have to agree or disagree that there ARE non-represented workers, head of household, with four kids, attempting to cover life expenses by working part time at WDW.
The argument is not so simple, when you start getting specific. Can someone support a family of four on $7.25 (federal minimum) or $8.46 (Florida minimum), working 20 hours a week at WDW? No. Should they be able to? No.
At 20 hours? No. At full time hours? Yes. At what minimum wage is? Of course they can't. They can't even pay rent for one person let alone a family. But they should be able to at least take care of one person.
Full time at Disney is said to be 32 hours, not 40. Does a 32 hour person get full time benefits?
I do commend Disney for raising their pay. I think it will be at $13 an hour in September and then rise from there. But if they are raising their hourly pay and cutting their hours, then they are only trying to LOOK good not actually doing anything.
Socialism was discredited a lot of years ago.
Not worried about this. Anyone who has tried socialism can testify how miserable it is.
Actually, all Disney cast members can have benefits in FL (not sure about the CT's but FT and CR do). part time or full time. The plans and company contributions are a bit different but workers who work under 32 hours a week and over 32 hours a week qualify for benefits.
Pay does depend on role, as a bus driver we got more to start than an attractions CM. Back in 2006, my starting pay was $12.94 an hour as a CR bus driver. We were also limited by DOT to only 60 hours in an 8 day period where other CM's could work more.
Those CM's who had hours cut can easily get more hours thru the shift exchange. There was always shift availability there so you had the ability to make more money if you wanted to.
Where do you draw the line for a living wage? Some people work for Disney for the perks, some for the benefits and some because they are trying to make a living. However, no one has to work for any employer. If you don't like the wage, look elsewhere. Did I want to make more money? Sure, who doesn't. Did I think I was unfairly compensated, no. DW and I lived on what WDW paid me for 6 months until I found another IT position (and I stayed CR after getting that position). Was it hard, Hell yes. Was it doable, yes, it was.
Is this serious? You are claiming that every person that lived under socialism will testify how miserable it is? Sounds like a typical ideologue but on the right rather than the typical left wing ideologue. Very simple black and white model of life you have there. A poor model of reality but at least it is simple.Not worried about this. Anyone who has tried socialism can testify how miserable it is.
I don’t think Walt would approve of much of the messaging.