Why I Gave Up on Walt Disney World

[Beer Me]

A very good point, I suppose yes, it's supply and demand and there is a huge demand for Disney resorts.

But apart from better grounds and decor, guests are getting no other benefits than those at any of the value resorts - it's only when you upgrade to Club level that you get extra benefits. So that's a lot of extra money to pay for nicer surroundings and more expensive restaurants.

IMO, the biggest benefit of deluxe is proximity to parks. Club level benefits are not worth it to me but staying at an Epcot resort gives me hours of vacation time where I’m not on a bus or otherwise traveling from place to place.

That being said, while proximity of deluxe is a huge perk (along with other Disney hotel perks) it’s always been a splurge and the cost benefit ratio is getting worse. I’m looking at all options for our next trip and off-site looks better and better.

 

[Lashed34]

IMO, the biggest benefit of deluxe is proximity to parks. Club level benefits are not worth it to me but staying at an Epcot resort gives me hours of vacation time where I’m not on a bus or otherwise traveling from place to place.

That being said, while proximity of deluxe is a huge perk (along with other Disney hotel perks) it’s always been a splurge and the cost benefit ratio is getting worse. I’m looking at all options for our next trip and off-site looks better and better.

For the time we are in Orlando the EMH benefits are very poor indeed. 1 hour extra in MK & AK and 1 later night at Epcot. Nothing at all for HS.
We thought the whole point of staying onsite was for those EMH but they seem to be really cutting back on them this December.

 

[nickg420]

Again, as an AP holder that visits the parks multiple times per year and never stay On Property I almost never not find a FP for something I want to ride.

Does it mean I may have to leave the current park I am in? Sure!
Is it at the exact time I would like for it to be? Of course not!
Have I had to cancel dining for a FP I really wanted? Yup!

But this notion that you can't do what you want because you didn't pay to stay on site is just false. I wasn't up at 7am or staring at my MDE App for hours. I just literally check what's available while I'm in line for my current FP. That takes almost 0 effort.

By the way I have absolutely 0 problem with Disney giving more to those who want to pay for it. I mean lets be real if you wanted to pay for the VIP Service you could ride whatever you wanted all day with basically unlimited FPs at a rate of like $400 per hour. So there's always going to be more for those that can afford it.

Disney isn't in the business to be "fair", they are in the business to make money. You can either support that and visit the parks however you can afford to do so, or you can stay at home and vote with your wallet, but to be mad because Disney isn't "fair" is just a ridiculous stance to take IMO.

 

[RamblingMad]

Again, as an AP holder that visits the parks multiple times per year and never stay On Property I almost never not find a FP for something I want to ride.

Does it mean I may have to leave the current park I am in? Sure!
Is it at the exact time I would like for it to be? Of course not!
Have I had to cancel dining for a FP I really wanted? Yup!

But this notion that you can't do what you want because you didn't pay to stay on site is just false. I wasn't up at 7am or staring at my MDE App for hours. I just literally check what's available while I'm in line for my current FP. That takes almost 0 effort.

By the way I have absolutely 0 problem with Disney giving more to those who want to pay for it. I mean lets be real if you wanted to pay for the VIP Service you could ride whatever you wanted all day with basically unlimited FPs at a rate of like $400 per hour. So there's always going to be more for those that can afford it.

Disney isn't in the business to be "fair", they are in the business to make money. You can either support that and visit the parks however you can afford to do so, or you can stay at home and vote with your wallet, but to be mad because Disney isn't "fair" is just a ridiculous stance to take IMO.

And it’s the guest that go to these different parks that drive the economics. I see far more conspicuous consumption on the east coast than the west, so I’m not surprised how the economics work out in WDW. And that’s another reason for me to stick to DL. I get more for my dollars. It’s a much better value.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Again, as an AP holder that visits the parks multiple times per year and never stay On Property I almost never not find a FP for something I want to ride.

Does it mean I may have to leave the current park I am in? Sure!
Is it at the exact time I would like for it to be? Of course not!
Have I had to cancel dining for a FP I really wanted? Yup!

But this notion that you can't do what you want because you didn't pay to stay on site is just false. I wasn't up at 7am or staring at my MDE App for hours. I just literally check what's available while I'm in line for my current FP. That takes almost 0 effort.

By the way I have absolutely 0 problem with Disney giving more to those who want to pay for it. I mean lets be real if you wanted to pay for the VIP Service you could ride whatever you wanted all day with basically unlimited FPs at a rate of like $400 per hour. So there's always going to be more for those that can afford it.

Disney isn't in the business to be "fair", they are in the business to make money. You can either support that and visit the parks however you can afford to do so, or you can stay at home and vote with your wallet, but to be mad because Disney isn't "fair" is just a ridiculous stance to take IMO.

Having to leave the park you’re in because of a desirable FP is not a good argument in favour of the system IMO. Different if you were to say you’re leaving already, so you were able to snag something at another park.

Day of is definitely an option, with the caveat that it doesn’t work well for larger parties, at certain times of year, and for those three problematic attractions that are the ones that sell out prior to 60 days. I’ve been able to find FoP day of a fair amount for a party of 2, but surprisingly I’ve had worse luck with 7DMT and not surprisingly have never seen a day of SDD. Day of works well for the middle of the road (considering their wait times) attractions, but again those are the ones that used to not have FP and you could ride them with reasonable waits for most of the day so that’s kind of a wash.

Disney is not in the business to be fair, and money does talk, but I don’t think there’s anything inaccurate about saying one method was a more level playing field than the other. Disney is not outside of their right to operate that way, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. I think that you *can* get most of the ADRs you want and ride all the attractions you want on a Disney trip without large amounts of planning, however it’s usually going to require knowledge as to how best game the system as well as good touring plans, meaning it’s pretty much reserved for those who are putting in the effort to learn and isn’t happening for those people who just show up and wing it.

Your experience and my experience as frequent guests who post on Disney boards for fun is not going to reflect the general public IMO. A friend of a friend just went down, stayed onsite and texted me for tips while she was there. They had FP booked in advance that we’re not great options, and ended up waiting in alllllll the long lines at the wrong times of day, skipping headliners, and leaving for the pool because it was too crowded. I did my best trying to teach her refresh over texting, but I think she was overwhelmed by it all and gave up lol. I honestly think a Disney planning experience is way more complicated than us frequent guests give it credit for.

 

[Lashed34]

Having to leave the park you’re in because of a desirable FP is not a good argument in favour of the system IMO. Different if you were to say you’re leaving already, so you were able to snag something at another park.

Day of is definitely an option, with the caveat that it doesn’t work well for larger parties, at certain times of year, and for those three problematic attractions that are the ones that sell out prior to 60 days. I’ve been able to find FoP day of a fair amount for a party of 2, but surprisingly I’ve had worse luck with 7DMT and not surprisingly have never seen a day of SDD. Day of works well for the middle of the road (considering their wait times) attractions, but again those are the ones that used to not have FP and you could ride them with reasonable waits for most of the day so that’s kind of a wash.

Disney is not in the business to be fair, and money does talk, but I don’t think there’s anything inaccurate about saying one method was a more level playing field than the other. Disney is not outside of their right to operate that way, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. I think that you *can* get most of the ADRs you want and ride all the attractions you want on a Disney trip without large amounts of planning, however it’s usually going to require knowledge as to how best game the system as well as good touring plans, meaning it’s pretty much reserved for those who are putting in the effort to learn and isn’t happening for those people who just show up and wing it.

Your experience and my experience as frequent guests who post on Disney boards for fun is not going to reflect the general public IMO. A friend of a friend just went down, stayed onsite and texted me for tips while she was there. They had FP booked in advance that we’re not great options, and ended up waiting in alllllll the long lines at the wrong times of day, skipping headliners, and leaving for the pool because it was too crowded. I did my best trying to teach her refresh over texting, but I think she was overwhelmed by it all and gave up lol. I honestly think a Disney planning experience is way more complicated than us frequent guests give it credit for.

I agree with a great deal of what you say.

The vast majority of visitors to WDW (especially from outside the U.S) expect to enter the parks, walk around, enjoy the atmosphere, go in and out of the shops and stores, meet some characters and ride the rides.

And that's exactly what they should be able to do, but because of the crowd levels (now all year round) these people will be lost as "Disney planners and Veterans" fly through the turnstiles at rope drop and race around the parks trying to get in all they have booked just so that they can book more once their FPs have been used.

It's a crazy system IMO and any system that can be beneficial to some but very beneficial to others simply isn't a fair system.

 

[Tormania]

That's a good point. FP+ is far less fair. As a result, we often don't get on the most in-demand attractions at all. Before, we could rope drop and get FPs. Now, that's not a thing anymore. Since we stay offsite, we can't get them 60 days out even if we wanted to try and by 30 days out, they're gone. So we just don't get to do those rides.

Just curious but what is the big difference between doing rope drop to race to grab FPs in previous years to doing rope drop and just going straight to the stand-by line and getting straight onto an attraction? If you are going at a less busy time of year even without FPs you can get several attractions done in short order if you arrive at rope drop. Maybe you can't end up grabbing 5 or more FPs throughout the day that could be accomplished before, but some people were never able to do that anyway.

No matter what WDW does concerning how they administer FPs, some people are going to like it and others aren't because they simply do the parks in a different fashion. WDW is in a no-win situation cause there are plenty of vocal folks in every camp who will voice their displeasure at any changes made that they feel undermines how THEY were able to work the previous system to their max benefit. I doubt WDW is trying to anger their loyal fan base, but by the same token they can't JUST cater to a vocal minority of their fan base in every decision they make. I've only been a couple times and some things that have been changed even over that short period of time I have been a bit dismayed by, but it is what it is.

And please don't think my response is directed at you or any single person, it's more of a general observation of the various responses I have seen from many people on changes at WDW through the years, both those in favor of and against those same changes.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Just curious but what is the big difference between doing rope drop to race to grab FPs in previous years to doing rope drop and just going straight to the stand-by line and getting straight onto an attraction? If you are going at a less busy time of year even without FPs you can get several attractions done in short order if you arrive at rope drop. Maybe you can't end up grabbing 5 or more FPs throughout the day that could be accomplished before, but some people were never able to do that anyway.

No matter what WDW does concerning how they administer FPs, some people are going to like it and others aren't because they simply do the parks in a different fashion. WDW is in a no-win situation cause there are plenty of vocal folks in every camp who will voice their displeasure at any changes made that they feel undermines how THEY were able to work the previous system to their max benefit. I doubt WDW is trying to anger their loyal fan base, but by the same token they can't JUST cater to a vocal minority of their fan base in every decision they make. I've only been a couple times and some things that have been changed even over that short period of time I have been a bit dismayed by, but it is what it is.

And please don't think my response is directed at you or any single person, it's more of a general observation of the various responses I have seen from many people on changes at WDW through the years, both those in favor of and against those same changes.

I agree with you, they’re never going to please everyone but it’s because of the underlying issue. Crowds and capacity. They can tweak the system a million different ways but the point remains that there’s a finite amount of hours the parks are open and a finite amount of people that can get on the most popular attractions.

It all leads back to, more hours! I really feel like so many of the common complaints could be helped with longer hours. Real hours, not at an extra cost. Think of what MK crowds would be like if the parties were knocked down to 1-2 nights a week, if DAH didn’t exist and instead the park was just open until midnight on those nights, if DHS always had early openings allowing people to get the big things done and clear out by lunch for the later day crowds, etc. It would do so much to alleviate the feeling of having to FP everything possible.

 

[RamblingMad]

I agree with you, they’re never going to please everyone but it’s because of the underlying issue. Crowds and capacity. They can tweak the system a million different ways but the point remains that there’s a finite amount of hours the parks are open and a finite amount of people that can get on the most popular attractions.

It all leads back to, more hours! I really feel like so many of the common complaints could be helped with longer hours. Real hours, not at an extra cost. Think of what MK crowds would be like if the parties were knocked down to 1-2 nights a week, if DAH didn’t exist and instead the park was just open until midnight on those nights, if DHS always had early openings allowing people to get the big things done and clear out by lunch for the later day crowds, etc. It would do so much to alleviate the feeling of having to FP everything possible.

And that’s more like DL on the weekends. I really feel like WDW up sells far more than DL. Again, this is where DL is a better value.

 

[Lashed34]

I agree with you, they’re never going to please everyone but it’s because of the underlying issue. Crowds and capacity. They can tweak the system a million different ways but the point remains that there’s a finite amount of hours the parks are open and a finite amount of people that can get on the most popular attractions.

It all leads back to, more hours! I really feel like so many of the common complaints could be helped with longer hours. Real hours, not at an extra cost. Think of what MK crowds would be like if the parties were knocked down to 1-2 nights a week, if DAH didn’t exist and instead the park was just open until midnight on those nights, if DHS always had early openings allowing people to get the big things done and clear out by lunch for the later day crowds, etc. It would do so much to alleviate the feeling of having to FP everything possible.

I agree with a lot of what you say here. It's also worth pointing out that by having the "after hours" events DISNEY is cutting down the time guests have in the parks who don't attend these events.
Although they add an hour here or an hour there most guests just want to visit a park and enjoy their day/night - but having to leave around 4 or 5 means people go to another park that's already crowded and this just encourages longer lines and longer waits.

If the whole point of "after hours" events is to give people a chance to ride without long lines AND get something extra such as MVMCP that's fine - but they're still getting long lines by the sound of it.

For AKAH the reports have been great for getting on FOP and other rides, but people are paying a huge premium for these events, so JUST to have less line time they are paying twice for the park (for overseas guests who have 7,14,21 day hoppers).

 

[RamblingMad]

I agree with a lot of what you say here. It's also worth pointing out that by having the "after hours" events DISNEY is cutting down the time guests have in the parks who don't attend these events.
Although they add an hour here or an hour there most guests just want to visit a park and enjoy their day/night - but having to leave around 4 or 5 means people go to another park that's already crowded and this just encourages longer lines and longer waits.

If the whole point of "after hours" events is to give people a chance to ride without long lines AND get something extra such as MVMCP that's fine - but they're still getting long lines by the sound of it.

For AKAH the reports have been great for getting on FOP and other rides, but people are paying a huge premium for these events, so JUST to have less line time they are paying twice for the park (for overseas guests who have 7,14,21 day hoppers).

Instead of having longer hours like DL, WDW up sells the longer hours. The take away is that guests are willing to pay for the up sell.

 

[rteetz]

And that’s more like DL on the weekends. I really feel like WDW up sells far more than DL. Again, this is where DL is a better value.

That’s due to who they target. WDW upsells because it’s a destination vacation. DL doesn’t because it’s a locals or weekend getaway destination. Two different types of guest.

 

[Lashed34]

Instead of having longer hours like DL, WDW up sells the longer hours. The take away is that guests are willing to pay for the up sell.

Oh absolutely - but it leaves the people, who have a day ticket with less hours, less time and more out of pocket. People plan ahead, who know this from this very thread - but then Disney shortens the hours for these pay for events. A bit unfair in my opinion, especially for these people planning a full day/night in a park.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Oh absolutely - but it leaves the people, who have a day ticket with less hours, less time and more out of pocket. People plan ahead, who know this from this very thread - but then Disney shortens the hours for these pay for events. A bit unfair in my opinion, especially for these people planning a full day/night in a park.

The parties and events frustrate me to no end.

It’s not as simple as don’t go if you don’t like it, because they have somewhat artificiality manufactured a need for these events, so if you can afford to go and choose not to out of protest the only person you’re hurting is yourself.

 

[Lashed34]

The parties and events frustrate me to no end.

It’s not as simple as don’t go if you don’t like it, because they have somewhat artificiality manufactured a need for these events, so if you can afford to go and choose not to out of protest the only person you’re hurting is yourself.

We looked at going to MVMCP in December. We have already paid for a 14 day hopper so I read reviews, watched videos etc and although it looks fun virtually every report said that it was oversold and therefore so crowded that it was no different to a regular evening - more so in many cases.
So weighing it all up we decided not to go. Having already paid for a hopper pass we were also quite frustrated that no discount could be made for the evening, which may have made the difference of us attending just to experience something at this festive time of year.

I appreciate that many people with AP and those local to the area love these events and attend and have a great night. But for those (like us) coming from overseas and have ticket packages we have to pay AGAIN for these events and I just don't feel thats fair.

But Disney are earning a fortune from such events, and even more from AKAH etc.

Money is king here...guests are no longer special, it's their wallets and purses that are special.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

We looked at going to MVMCP in December. We have already paid for a 14 day hopper so I read reviews, watched videos etc and although it looks fun virtually every report said that it was oversold and therefore so crowded that it was no different to a regular evening - more so in many cases.
So weighing it all up we decided not to go. Having already paid for a hopper pass we were also quite frustrated that no discount could be made for the evening, which may have made the difference of us attending just to experience something at this festive time of year.

I appreciate that many people with AP and those local to the area love these events and attend and have a great night. But for those (like us) coming from overseas and have ticket packages we have to pay AGAIN for these events and I just don't feel thats fair.

But Disney are earning a fortune from such events, and even more from AKAH etc.

Money is king here...guests are no longer special, it's their wallets and purses that are special.

We skipped the Halloween party when we were there in October, even with the AP discount I find it to be a hard one to justify. In a 6 night stay we had literally ONE night where MK was open past 6. One. We were there the week Disney decided to allow a private party to be held in the MK on the only other evening it would have been open.

I know people will say well that’s what you get for going in party season, but my goodness party season is a little less than half the year at this point. Plus AH events for the other part. Craziness.

 

[rteetz]

We looked at going to MVMCP in December. We have already paid for a 14 day hopper so I read reviews, watched videos etc and although it looks fun virtually every report said that it was oversold and therefore so crowded that it was no different to a regular evening - more so in many cases.
So weighing it all up we decided not to go. Having already paid for a hopper pass we were also quite frustrated that no discount could be made for the evening, which may have made the difference of us attending just to experience something at this festive time of year.

I appreciate that many people with AP and those local to the area love these events and attend and have a great night. But for those (like us) coming from overseas and have ticket packages we have to pay AGAIN for these events and I just don't feel thats fair.

But Disney are earning a fortune from such events, and even more from AKAH etc.

Money is king here...guests are no longer special, it's their wallets and purses that are special.

I don’t put the Halloween or Christmas parties on the same level as say disney after hours or stuff like that. The holiday parties have been around for well over a decade. Yes crowded but I find them enjoyable. I went to a Halloween party this year and got everything I wanted to do done.

 

[Lashed34]

We skipped the Halloween party when we were there in October, even with the AP discount I find it to be a hard one to justify. In a 6 night stay we had literally ONE night where MK was open past 6. One. We were there the week Disney decided to allow a private party to be held in the MK on the only other evening it would have been open.

I know people will say well that’s what you get for going in party season, but my goodness party season is a little less than half the year at this point. Plus AH events for the other part. Craziness.

I would have been so mad at that. In a thread where everyone talks about planning and planning and planning, to finally arrive, looking forward to a great time and finding the parks closing early every night would be a nightmare.

So sorry to hear about your experience. That really sucks.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I would have been so mad at that. In a thread where everyone talks about planning and planning and planning, to finally arrive, looking forward to a great time and finding the parks closing early every night would be a nightmare.

So sorry to hear about your experience. That really sucks.

I should be clear, it wasn’t a surprise and it was in the calendar early enough to plan around it, but it’s just frustrating that MK in particular has so few regular evening hours for a good chunk of the year.

They could have planned one less Halloween party that week for their private party instead . Yeah right.

 

[Lashed34]

I don’t put the Halloween or Christmas parties on the same level as say disney after hours or stuff like that. The holiday parties have been around for well over a decade. Yes crowded but I find them enjoyable. I went to a Halloween party this year and got everything I wanted to do done.

I have to be honest, we did look at AKAH and didn't book it for one reason. Every review I read stated that before the park closes (regular hours) people hit the line at FOP which Disney then honours so everyone can ride it. If you've paid extra for AH (and it's not cheap) you still have to queue, usually in the FP queue - but it's not an empty park you're getting and with only 3 hours and lines for FOP usually exceeding that I may as well stay in AK, join the line at close and do what everyone else does without paying the AH cost.

There are no HSAH for December - for that I really would have got a ticket because my 2 favourite rides are there and RotR would be open. Alas, it's the one thing Disney aren't selling in December.