Just bought into Rivera DVC, thinking of cancelling and buying non-direct.

[Noodlez]

Who said anything abut releasing personal info? To the buyer one contract looks just like another. They can steer you toward putting a bid in on a different contract if they think that will be a smoother transaction. The on-line form can't do that. After all, we've all seen contracts that are listed below the others but still don't immediately sell.

I think the situation between my husband and myself is personal! I should choose who knows if we are divorcing, and how amicable we are about it! If the reseller, who should be working on my behalf, encourages people to offer lower because I’m going through a bad situation I’d be very unhappy. They have every right to suggest to me that I may want a lower asking price for a quick sale, but not to encourage anyone else to offer lower.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

One thing that has not been mentioned is that RIGHT NOW is a great time to buy resale. The ROFR's have slowed to a trickle, meaning you can make an offer below asking and there is a good chance it will pass ROFR. That was certainly not the case this time last year when Disney knew the resale restrictions were going to be implemented.

One piece of advice on resale we stumbled onto; do your research on-line, but then CALL to put in the offer. Reason being, the reseller you are buying through knows a bit about the seller and can help you avoid pitfalls like a contentious divorce or a seller who is slow to respond. Could be they even have info about who is more motivated and would be more likely to accept a reduced offer or maybe pay dues on points.

Brokers are the obstacle. They dont even want to present the offers.

 

[mustinjourney]

I never even thought of that option of splitting accommodation across different resorts. Something to definitely consider.

whatever you decide to do -- if you are going to buy 250 points direct, I would highly recommend having it broken up into several smaller contracts. The added expense is something like $215 per contract, but you will make that money up if you need to sell b/c smaller contracts fetch a premium. I would consider doing 1x100 and 3x50 or 2x75 -- or 2x100 and 1x50. This will give you a lot more flexibility if you want to downsize later and still maintain your "blue card" status by still holding onto 100 points direct.

Also -- DON'T BUY AULANI DIRECT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. You can buy resale at Aulani for about $100 a point.

 

[mustinjourney]

We stayed outside the resort in California and in Florida stayed in the Wilderness lodge with room that just overlooked the parking lot, not the Savannah and it was still very expensive. If it were my choice alone we would stay outside the park but my better half likes to stay in the park.

We have a 19 month old and a 5 year old so we'll be going lots over the next 20 years. My thoughts are the DVC is worth it if you pretty much know for sure you'll be going 10 times.

If you're ok with split stays -- then I could see getting 150 points at Riviera direct (current incentives bring the cost down per point quite a bit) and then buying ~100 points at VGF/BLT resale. That will give you easy transportation to DHS/Epcot for a few days -- and then on your hotel switch day -- you have bell services pick up your bags (or drop them off). You then head to DAK for the whole day (or at least until 4 pm) and then catch the bus to VGF and check-in. Your bags should already be waiting for you and you just call and have them sent up. MK fireworks that night! and then MK for the last few days of the trip.

 

[mustinjourney]

Yes I did rescind just about hour ago.

I bought for December but wonder if this is a problem as we like to travel during Thanksgiving week since our school aged child gets that week off from school ( Fall break ). What would be the ideal month to have if we will be traveling during that time period ? 11 months seems that December is best, but I'm not 100 percent sure.

September/october would be best.

 

[mustinjourney]

Thanks for the info. After thinking about things for a while we are leaning either towards Polynesian or Grand Floridian with CCV a possibility as well. I like Grand Floridian because the 2 bedroom villas are not that much more expensive than the 1 bedroom ones, downside is Poly is better for kids. Poly would be hard if we wanted grandparents to come because then we would need two rooms and I'm not sure what the availability would be 7 months out. I wonder about if Poly always has balcony lakeside room available 11 months out, as all rooms don't have balconies. I'm thinking of 200 points at Grand Floridan ( which we would go once every 2 years so could get 1 bedroom villa ), or 100 points at Poly to get studio once every 2 years. The amount spent is not that important too us, but getting value for the amount is what we are most concerned about.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...-bd-charts-september-2019-2-bd-added.3689931/
haven't read through the whole thread -- but the link above is absolute gold when trying to decide the necessity of home resort advantage.

 

[Lumpy1106]

I think the situation between my husband and myself is personal! I should choose who knows if we are divorcing, and how amicable we are about it! If the reseller, who should be working on my behalf, encourages people to offer lower because I’m going through a bad situation I’d be very unhappy. They have every right to suggest to me that I may want a lower asking price for a quick sale, but not to encourage anyone else to offer lower.

DIdn't say that either. Look, if I'm the broker and a buyer calls looking for a contract, which one do you think I'm going to steer them towards?
Contract 1 - Seller easy to deal with, returns calls within the hour, single point of contact can make all the decisions, seller motivated and flexible on price
or
Contract 2 - Seller hard to contact, must get approval from multiple parties, one or both of which may have a history of taking days to respond, seller(s) firm on price, or unable to negotiate reasonably

I don't know about you, but if I'm the broker, Contract 2 could be listed a couple of bucks less than contract 1 and I'm still going to advise a buyer to put in an offer on contract 1, and maybe match the price of contract 2.

The point is, you're not going to know that just looking at the details on-line - you're going to want to call.

 

[Sandisw]

Who said anything abut releasing personal info? To the buyer one contract looks just like another. They can steer you toward putting a bid in on a different contract if they think that will be a smoother transaction. The on-line form can't do that. After all, we've all seen contracts that are listed below the others but still don't immediately sell.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with you that a broker selling a contract should be giving a buyer any information to steer them to one contract over another for any other reason expect facts related to the actual contact.

I have dealt with a few brokers and when I have called to put in an offer, they have simply said they’d pass it along. If I had asked them to share anything like you suggest, even if they had a suggestion on which seller might be easier to deal with, and they did, I’d find it wrong. Any seller expects them to act in their best interest and that means remaining neutral.

 

[Sandisw]

DIdn't say that either. Look, if I'm the broker and a buyer calls looking for a contract, which one do you think I'm going to steer them towards?
Contract 1 - Seller easy to deal with, returns calls within the hour, single point of contact can make all the decisions, seller motivated and flexible on price
or
Contract 2 - Seller hard to contact, must get approval from multiple parties, one or both of which may have a history of taking days to respond, seller(s) firm on price, or unable to negotiate reasonably

I don't know about you, but if I'm the broker, Contract 2 could be listed a couple of bucks less than contract 1 and I'm still going to advise a buyer to put in an offer on contract 1, and maybe match the price of contract 2.

The point is, you're not going to know that just looking at the details on-line - you're going to want to call.

If a buyer calls and seeks guidance, the only thing the broker should inquire about is what the buyer wants, and share with them the contracts they have that fit those needs and then let the buyer decide which one to put the offer on.

In no way should a broker be suggesting to a buyer to go with one vs the other unless the resort, UY, and number of points in one contract seems to be a better fit for the buyer, based on what the buyer indicates they want.

To me, any broker who acts in this manner, IMO, is one whose practices I personally find unethical. Obviously, you disagree.

 

[sethschroeder]

Riviera is the cheapest place to buy from Disney if direct is your preferred way of buying.

I just want to point out that this is not correct. Let me know if I am missing something though.

• Other resorts have lower upfront purchase prices
• Every WDW resort has lower maintenance fees (majority of total cost)
• Other resorts will have total lower cost
• Other resorts will have lower point requirements for rooms

We will take the example of SSR as I believe its the cheapest right now:

• $165/point vs RIV $188/point
• Studio Point Requirement (1 week, October '21): SSR (95 Std/113 P) vs RIV (123 Std/155 P)
• Week costs upfront: SSR $15675-$18645 vs RIV $23,124‬-$29,140
• Maintenance fees: $6.76 vs RIV $8.30

The only way you could say its cheaper is if you try and account for a 2054 repurchase in to DVC which is wild guesswork since that's longer from now than DVC has been around. I am almost thinking you could get CCV to come out cheaper even with a higher upfront cost because of lesser point requirements for rooms and lower maintenance fees.

 

[mustinjourney]

I just want to point out that this is not correct. Let me know if I am missing something though.

• Other resorts have lower upfront purchase prices
• Every WDW resort has lower maintenance fees (majority of total cost)
• Other resorts will have total lower cost
• Other resorts will have lower point requirements for rooms

We will take the example of SSR as I believe its the cheapest right now:

• $165/point vs RIV $188/point
• Studio Point Requirement (1 week, October '21): SSR (95 Std/113 P) vs RIV (123 Std/155 P)
• Week costs upfront: SSR $15675-$18645 vs RIV $23,124‬-$29,140
• Maintenance fees: $6.76 vs RIV $8.30

The only way you could say its cheaper is if you try and account for a 2054 repurchase in to DVC which is wild guesswork since that's longer from now than DVC has been around. I am almost thinking you could get CCV to come out cheaper even with a higher upfront cost because of lesser point requirements for rooms and lower maintenance fees.

at 250 points -- the current incentives drop RIV to $168 a point.

 

[sethschroeder]

at 250 points -- the current incentives drop RIV to $168 a point.

So still more upfront than SSR with higher maintenance fees. If the gap in fees remains consistent then in 33 year you would have spent $12,705 more on RIV than SSR for the maintenance fees. So again overall more expensive.

Like I stated before only way its coming out cheaper is with trying to do math around a new contract in 2054.

 

[Sandisw]

So still more upfront than SSR with higher maintenance fees. If the gap in fees remains consistent then in 33 year you would have spent $12,705 more on RIV than SSR for the maintenance fees. So again overall more expensive.

Like I stated before only way its coming out cheaper is with trying to do math around a new contract in 2054.

Are your figures taking into consideration that RIV ends in 2070? If not, then it’s not a fair comparison. You can not discount the extra years.

So, on 250, it’s costing you $750 extra for a contract that has an extra 16 years,

Assume an extra $1.50 more per year, so it costs an extra $375 per year.

So, yes, it will cost $375 more per year to own RIV than SSR. However, due to the extra years, RIV is cheaper in the long run.

 

[sethschroeder]

Are your figures taking into consideration that RIV ends in 2070?

Well that's been my point about how you would need to try to do some vudu math. Here is why when you buy a new contract in 2054 that will then be longer than Riviera and have resale value when RIV expires.

Case is the statement of Riviera is the cheapest is inaccurate.

I would rather pay more for RIV than less for SSR though personally if I had to choose.

 

[Sandisw]

Well that's been my point about how you would need to try to do some vudu math. Here is why when you buy a new contract in 2054 that will then be longer than Riviera and have resale value when RIV expires.

Case is the statement of Riviera is the cheapest is inaccurate.

I would rather pay more for RIV than less for SSR though personally if I had to choose.

Yes, the purchase price of RIV costs $750 more. But if you are going to consider the extra MFs, you then have to consider you are getting 16 extra years worth of points in the equation when deciding which provides the cheapest option in the long run,

So, RIV is the cheaper option when taking everything into consideration. However, it will cost you an additional $750 to purchase the same number of points from Disney for RIV than it will SSR,

 

[sethschroeder]

If you disregard the extra years, then yes, RIV costs $750 more. But you can’t because if you are going to consider the extra MFs, you have to consider you are getting 16 extra years worth of points.

Except its not $750 more. You have to buy 250 points to get that price difference which I pointed out will end up costing you $12705 more in MFs.

I am not accounting for the MFs past when SSR expires for RIV. Sorry if I misunderstood. The extra MFs of $12k is just until 2054 when the SSR expires.

 

[Sandisw]

Except its not $750 more. You have to buy 250 points to get that price difference which I pointed out will end up costing you $12705 more in MFs.

I am not accounting for the MFs past when SSR expires for RIV. Sorry if I misunderstood. The extra MFs of $12k is just until 2054 when the SSR expires.

But how can you compare and then stop when SSR ends, and RIV doesn’t?

If you take purchase price and divide by years left, your purchase price for SSR is about $5/pt. For RIV, it’s $3.36/point.

So, in reality, RiV is cheaper based on # of total points you are buying. Now, the extra MFs for RIV will eat up some that difference over time, but in the long run, it’s going to be pretty close since we don’t know that the difference between the two resorts MFs won’t close.

 

[jarestel]

There have been 3-4 known resales of Riviera already and all I can say is if you had to sell tomorrow you'd take quite a hit. It would sell but it wouldn't be pretty.

This is true but also quite typical for any DVC resort purchased within the first stages of direct sales. The price does tend to go up the longer you hold onto the contract.

 

[sethschroeder]

But how can you compare and then stop when SSR ends, and RIV doesn’t?

If you take purchase price and divide by years left, your purchase price for SSR is about $5/pt. For RIV, it’s $3.36/point.

So, in reality, RiV is cheaper based on # of total points you are buying. Now, the extra MFs for RIV will eat up some that difference over time, but in the long run, it’s going to be pretty close since we don’t know that the difference between the two resorts MFs won’t close.

Its easy I can expect to buy SSR in 2054 and then resell in 2069 for a profit to off set the contract cost to some extent. Like I said you have to do crazy math if you really want to get to the bottom of it. It doesn't make Riviera cheaper though just potentially a better value with a longer term contract. Your total output of cost until 2054 will be less with SSR.

What we also didn't account for is that RIV and SSR are likely to go up at the same increase rate meaning the MF gap is likely to be much larger by the end of the SSR contract. So I will have way over $12.7k in purchasing a new 50 year contract from SSR. Lets assume a modest 3% increase after an initial 3 flat years from RIVs MFs. We are left with a $45k difference in maintenance fees. That being said it likely is somewhere between $12.7k and $45k but likely closer to the $12.7k number.

We also didn't account for the fact you could reduce your point requirement with SSR compared to RIV. With 250 points (since you want to account for that discount) then you likely are looking at a 1BR-Std which is 260 points at RIV in October (under the new charts). On the flip side SSR is going to be 199 points for that same week in October. That is a 20% reduction.

A 20% reduction on the RIV MFs (using a flat yearly MF even though we know they will increase around 3%) would be a $54,780 difference by the time the SSR contract ends. Again we are left with a gap at the end of the contract. The assumption is though you can buy a SSR contract in 2054, resell it in 2069, and make up for a good portion of the buy-in cost. Plus have flexibility midway through your RIV contract to buy a different resort than SSR if you so are inclined since you are rebuying in.

Now we could try to make an assumption of selling RIV as well when we hit 2054 which would buy back possibly some of that MF difference. It would be highly dependent on the MF difference between the two if you could make back the difference though.

In the end though I don't see how someone can honestly say today its cheaper to get RIV. As money in 2054 and what might happen there is much less valuable than money today over the next 5 years when you will be saving money. Remember I responded to the simple comment "Riveria is the cheapest".

I would take my risk on RIV if I had to choose between the two but thats because of other aspects and how nice RIV will be not which one is cheaper.

 

[ray3127]

But if you are going to consider the extra MFs, you then have to consider you are getting 16 extra years worth of points in the equation when deciding which provides the cheapest option in the long run,

Speaking from a strictly financial standpoint, this is not entirely true.

Trying to assign a financial value TODAY to benefits that will be received 35 years from now is simply not rational. Not a personal attack, I'm just telling you that nowhere else on Earth does any business count on benefits or cash flows that are occuring in 2054 and beyond. This DVC Board is literally the only place people bring this up as a factor to consider.

Further, the fact that a contract has an earlier end date may be appealing to some... A shorter commitment means less overall risk. Does anybody have the foggiest idea what the world will look like in 2054? I didn't think so. How anybody can be certain they would rather own a DVC contract for 16 additional years come 2054 is beyond my comprehension.

So looking at things today, in 2019, the fact that a timeshare expires in 2070 versus 2054 is not necessarily a positive factor.

In fact, in most of the calculations I've done, people are better off (financially) taking the shorter expiration, paying less upfront, less in MFs over the life of the contract, investing all of those savings, and having a lump sum of cash in 2054/2042/pick your expiration, compared to buying Riviera.

If you love Riviera, then you should own there. That's outstanding. But to argue it is the least expensive resort to own direct, or that the years 2054-2070 make up the difference... Those are not real arguments.