Will this end up being the pandemic that cried wolf?

[mnrose]

So let the old people die? That’s cruel.

All lives matter? Not so much apparently.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

But we must ask the question when have we achieved the original goal of flattening? Are we fine with 26 million Americans looking for food to put on the table, who had no trouble affording food before these lockdowns.

No, we are not fine with it. We knew when we started down this road that there would be two separate crises to manage. We are doing so. Let's see where this takes us if we open back up gradually, when a state or area has reached safe new infection levels vs. doing what Georgia is doing. Doing what GA is doing might work - I am hopeful that it will. But science suggests that it won't, and that they are going to be locked down again in a few weeks while the rest of the country is opening back up.

 

[xuxa777]

I’m all in for the discussion. Is there another disease anywhere near as contagious that can be transmitted by asymptomatic carrier? Can we agree that other afflictions have at least treatments that can be employed? Seriously every doctor and scientist in this country is studying this thing can we provide them a bit more runway?

How about the flu, you do know that there are asymptomatic cases spread with it as well. we have a vaccine but only 50% or so of people take it. Also flu kills a lot more children and healthy people. But no point in going down that road.

ETA to be clear not saying Covid is not as bad or the same as the flu

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I agree response should be regional. I also think “suck it up” is an appropriate phrase for some of the complaining I’ve seen. There are some folks that are in complete denial Regarding the facts here and utterly dismissive of reality. Sorry you were offended.

Please don't assume people are offended simply because they disagree with your choice of words. I'm certainly not. One is able to both point out the curt choice of words and yet not be actually offended by them. That's all I was attempting to do. Apologies if you interpreted that differently.

I don't lump everyone together. Do I think complaining about wanting a partial refund because the city's community center is closed is missing the mark? Sure. Do I think complaining that one's own business is unable to be open, monies cannot be made, employees are let go, free lunches impacted for those in need, etc is right on the mark? Sure. Do I think those countercomplaining against those seemingly concerned about their partial refunds because the city's community center was closed is right on the mark? Sure. All of these and many more are what I've seen in just my surrounding neighborhoods.

I guess I end up separating out different complaints and weigh that in opinions. I don't think a place should consider removal of stay at home order or the reintroduction of this or that because there are those upset over the community center being closed. But that's also far from what the bulk of what I see people even being concerned about so it doesn't merit in my mind such a broad statement of "suck it up for a few more weeks". Maybe we're just seeing radically different majority complaints I guess. And for clarification I'm not saying you were saying people are complaining about community center being closed, that is something I've seen in my area albeit that was in mid-late March when things were different in the area.

 

[Jfldis]

How about the flu, you do know that there are asymptomatic cases spread with it as well. we have a vaccine but only 50% or so of people take it. But no point in going down that road.

How many medical experts do you need to hear tell you that this is no way comparable to the flu? In terms of mortality as well as how contagious it is? Let me ask you this way: do you think the world undertook the most drast drastic, unprecedented measure ever, tanking economies everywhere for what, kicks? The shutdowns in this country were annnounced in mid March, then extended through April. We are not yet brought April. Let’s evaluate the data and decide at that point if we start to open. If some parts of the country are better than others, if some parts of a state are better than others open them wider. Here in NYC we are closed until May 15. And the numbers support that.

 

[Bunnyma]

Comparing Covid-19 to the flu is the same as comparing the flu to the common cold. They are similar but nowhere near the same and one is much more deadly than the other.. Covid-19 is more contagious, lasts longer on surfaces and it kills more people than the flu. And there is no vaccine and probably won't be for at least a year. Not the same thing at all.

 

[cabanafrau]

I just think it’s sadistic to throw our elderly to the wolves, so that I can go out to eat at a restaurant or watch a movie in a theatre.

Are you laboring under the mistaken belief I have at all suggested it's appropriate or humane to throw the elderly to the wolves so I can go out to eat or to the movies? I'll save you some time searching for even a single post from me that suggests anything whatsoever like that, because you won't find one. You're quite free not to take me at my word, seek out where I have suggested otherwise and prove to everyone I think the old folks should accept their day has passed, step off and be plowed under for the good of everyone? the economy? corporate bonuses, stock prices and profit margins perhaps?

You did however prove my point. It is impossible to express any thought whatsoever without it being co opted as some type of call for or against some agenda. I find it offensive that anyone wouldn't think it's important to try to keep as many people alive and healthy as possible. I find it ridiculous that everyone doesn't think it's important that people are able to economically maintain the means of obtaining the necessities of life, housing, food, clothing, etc. I feel it's vital we not allow this invisible enemy that we don't yet understand, aren't completely sure how to fight and cannot yet crush be used by some as cover to remove basic rights and freedoms that we have the privilege to enjoy because of generations of sacrifice and hardship

Common sense says we're bound to be most successful in the quickest amount of time if everybody pulls together to use their talents and abilities to achieve as many good results as possible for as many people as possible all the way around the wheel and keep it turning as smoothly as humanly possible. Do the best we can each day with what we know, adapting and adjusting as we learn more in an attempt to keep the wheel doing what wheels do.

 

[RamblingMad]

Are you laboring under the mistaken belief I have at all suggested it's appropriate or humane to throw the elderly to the wolves so I can go out to eat or to the movies? I'll save you some time searching for even a single post from me that suggests anything whatsoever like that, because you won't find one. You're quite free not to take me at my word, seek out where I have suggested otherwise and prove to everyone I think the old folks should accept their day has passed, step off and be plowed under for the good of everyone? the economy? corporate bonuses, stock prices and profit margins perhaps?

You did however prove my point. It is impossible to express any thought whatsoever without it being co opted as some type of call for or against some agenda. I find it offensive that anyone wouldn't think it's important to try to keep as many people alive and healthy as possible. I find it ridiculous that everyone doesn't think it's important that people are able to economically maintain the means of obtaining the necessities of life, housing, food, clothing, etc. I feel it's vital we not allow this invisible enemy that we don't yet understand, aren't completely sure how to fight and cannot yet crush be used by some as cover to remove basic rights and freedoms that we have the privilege to enjoy because of generations of sacrifice and hardship

Common sense says we're bound to be most successful in the quickest amount of time if everybody pulls together to use their talents and abilities to achieve as many good results as possible for as many people as possible all the way around the wheel and keep it turning as smoothly as humanly possible. Do the best we can each day with what we know, adapting and adjusting as we learn more in an attempt to keep the wheel doing what wheels do.

I’m all for universal basic income and healthcare. I also support raising the minimum wage. But since we don’t have those things, some people are going to be screwed. They can only blame themselves if they were against public policies that would protect them. The helicopter money and additional unemployment will have to do. That’s our reality given the pandemic. Maybe in the future people will care more for other people. Temporary unemployment is better than dying. That’s the trade off we are making. We are staying home to save lives.

 

[mom2rtk]

I’m all for universal basic income and healthcare. I also support raising the minimum wage. But since we don’t have those things, some people are going to be screwed. They can only blame themselves if they were against public policies that would protect them. The helicopter money and additional unemployment will have to do. That’s our reality given the pandemic. Maybe in the future people will care more for other people. Temporary unemployment is better than dying. That’s the trade off we are making. We are staying home to save lives.

Too bad you have no idea whether the people you would be punishing with this approach are the same people who were against your suggested plans.

 

[Jfldis]

Please don't assume people are offended simply because they disagree with your choice of words. I'm certainly not. One is able to both point out the curt choice of words and yet not be actually offended by them. That's all I was attempting to do. Apologies if you interpreted that differently.

I don't lump everyone together. Do I think complaining about wanting a partial refund because the city's community center is closed is missing the mark? Sure. Do I think complaining that one's own business is unable to be open, monies cannot be made, employees are let go, free lunches impacted for those in need, etc is right on the mark? Sure. Do I think those countercomplaining against those seemingly concerned about their partial refunds because the city's community center was closed is right on the mark? Sure. All of these and many more are what I've seen in just my surrounding neighborhoods.

I guess I end up separating out different complaints and weigh that in opinions. I don't think a place should consider removal of stay at home order or the reintroduction of this or that because there are those upset over the community center being closed. But that's also far from what the bulk of what I see people even being concerned about so it doesn't merit in my mind such a broad statement of "suck it up for a few more weeks". Maybe we're just seeing radically different majority complaints I guess. And for clarification I'm not saying you were saying people are complaining about community center being closed, that is something I've seen in my area albeit that was in mid-late March when things were different in the area.

Ok Fair enough. CDC says there should be 2 weeks of a decline in cases so I guess I could rephrase to say I wish people would see clear to tolerate the status quo until your are meets that criteria and the formulate a reopening plan. Peace out

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I’m all for universal basic income and healthcare. I also support raising the minimum wage. But since we don’t have those things, some people are going to be screwed. They can only blame themselves if they were against public policies that would protect them. The helicopter money and additional unemployment will have to do. That’s our reality given the pandemic. Maybe in the future people will care more for other people. Temporary unemployment is better than dying. That’s the trade off we are making. We are staying home to save lives.

It is amazing to me just how many of the people negatively impacted by the loss of jobs from this are the same people who do not support universal healthcare or a living wage minimum. I do not wish ill of them through this crisis for their beliefs, but maybe this will help them see the why so many see another path forward.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Too bad you have no idea whether the people you would be punishing with this approach are the same people who were against your suggested plans.

As individuals - hard to say. But as states - we can see very clearly which states have been most drastically impacted, and they are almost all red states.

 

[TLSnell1981]

[

I live in the desert. We are breaking a 100 degrees this weekend. Our cases have been going up all month while we were in the 80s and 90s.

Humid or dry?

 

[mom2rtk]

As individuals - hard to say. But as states - we can see very clearly which states have been most drastically impacted, and they are almost all red states.

And if we hurt some random individuals along the way, no biggie, right?

 

[BuckeyeBama]

And if we hurt some random individuals along the way, no biggie, right?

I'm for not hurting anyone - at least, not on purpose.

 

[RamblingMad]

Humid or dry?

It’s the desert. Humidity today is 17%. It was around 25% most of this month.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Ok Fair enough. CDC says there should be 2 weeks of a decline in cases so I guess I could rephrase to say I wish people would see clear to tolerate the status quo until your are meets that criteria and the formulate a reopening plan. Peace out

Well that's a way different way of explaining your viewpoint than saying sucking it up for a few more weeks so thank you for clarifying what your position was as it makes it more understandable to me personally

 

[TLSnell1981]

It’s the desert. Humidity today is 17%. It was around 25% most of this month.

R&D is showing the virus doesn’t like humidity, heat and sunshine.

 

[cabanafrau]

I’m all for universal basic income and healthcare. I also support raising the minimum wage. But since we don’t have those things, some people are going to be screwed. They can only blame themselves if they were against public policies that would protect them. The helicopter money and additional unemployment will have to do. That’s our reality given the pandemic. Maybe in the future people will care more for other people. Temporary unemployment is better than dying. That’s the trade off we are making. We are staying home to save lives.

Once again, show me where' I'm advocating against stay home? You clearly have zero idea what I am saying, much less so what I think if this is your response to what I've said.

I think a common sense approach needs to be taken to try and achieve the goals of keeping every person it's humanly possible to keep alive and healthy alive and healthy. Common sense needs to be used in an effort to make it possible for as many people who can safely return to the business of earning a living doing so by doing everything humanly possible to make sure they're able to both earn and stay safe. I'm also not eager to blindly and complacently allow anyone who wants to use any aspect of this horror as a means to take real freedoms away from people. When I'm talking about real freedoms I'm not talking about the ability to go to the movies tonight or visit Disney next week or next month. I'm talking about basic constitutional fundamentals of freedom, period.

We don't have the knowledge or resources necessary to achieve all of the objectives right now. That's just a cold, hard, awful to comprehend fact. That means we focus on doing the very best we can with what we have and know, and continue to adapt to what we learn and the resources we acquire along the way to continue to try and do the very best for as many as possible all along the way until we can either eventually eliminate or at least master this virus.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm for not hurting anyone - at least, not on purpose.

Intent has nothing to do with it. If waiting too long to open things up hurts people, they are hurt whether you intended it or not.