What do you think school will be like in the fall? UPDATE page 29 for Mass.

[mi*vida*loca]

No that is not what he or that chart says. Its talks about testing and contact tracing and treatment OR vaccine.

K-12 higher education at reduced capacity is stage 3. Then it goes to New normal Which isn’t until there’s a vaccine or cure.

Also, how are people supposed to work if child care, school and summer camps are closed or at limited capacity? (Not asking you directly. Just typing out loud lol)

 

[greg9x]

Haven't read all the post here yet... but my son loves distance learning, or rather the fact he doesn't have to go to physical school..but he is still doing well with the distance learning. Our school district transitioned fairly well to the distance learning as they had some plans in the works already, but it is obvious a lot of other districts were in no way prepared to do this and kids are not getting any real instruction. But I really like that the students can work at their own pace without disruptive students slowing them down, have flexibility of when to start the learning, and have the freedom to take breaks as needed.

Will have to see what happens in the fall...but this has been interesting to show an alternate way of learning. Even if it only gets used on snow days or if a school has a maintenance issue, that school can still continue...even if a kid is mildly sick or on vacation that they could still keep up. Yes, there will be many rages against losing the 'fun' of a snow day.

One of the biggest financial issues across the country has been building and upkeep of physical school buildings... I think this will show that in the future that those buildings may not be needed.

One complaint against that will be social interaction... but that can occur outside the learning time, especially if school days are shortened due to not having to travel to school, move between classes, etc. Even in a world where the virus isn't rampant, there could be organized field trips. I don't think being forced to sit in a room with other kids is necessarily beneficial social interaction, especially with all the bullying that happens in schools. The flip side to that being kids who come from not great home lives, where school is an escape from that.

And of course is the 'daycare' aspect of schools so that parents can work and have younger kids supervised for a large portion of the day.. but if physical schools are reduced/eliminated, then the tax money from those could go towards child care of some kind for those who need it.

Extracurricular activities can all be done at the community level.... again, maybe funded by the freed up tax dollars.

Of course, none of that is going to happen very soon, but think this outbreak has shown the possibilities of what could happen.


As to the coming fall, it will be a wait and see. These re-openings will tell what is going to happen over next few weeks. No one really knows how it is going to play out, despite the number who think they do. I don't like the theory that infection rate is low for kids, so it's ok to be crammed together in schools.... we see how colds/flu propagate rampantly in schools as it is.. sure don't want my son in potential epicenter of outbreak.

 

[sweetpeama]

Montana here just outside one of our larger population areas. K-8 school of an average class size of 14 students though a number of the classrooms can easily hold 35 students as they were built when all grades were in one room, then split into 2-4 grades per room. Work is being finished on a new axillary campus for grades 6-8 just across the street from the main campus where K-5 will have classes. This is going to prevent classes from having to move to a 20-25 state limit on classroom size in the near future due to housing growth in the area.
High school attend a larger district that has an average of 30 students per classroom for some of the required subjects that every student takes. Some courses in an area such as foreign language may have smaller classes due to lower number of students taking say German opposed to Spanish. This district is a K-12 and has an average class size of 28-30 students in the elemenary classrooms district wide.
My kids are currently in 6th and 9th grade and have been homeschooled all the way through so we are not effected other than our group activities with other homeschoolers have been cancelled. We recently had our homeschool seniors graduate and due to space limitations at the facility used each was able to have only 10 guests and tickets were required. A couple of smaller schools in my county are also allowing 10 guests at an outdoor ceremony and the larger districts are doing from 4 guests per student and graduation is on the school football field or 2 guests per student in a large multipurpose stadium without the normal school bands playing promp and circumstance. Multiple schools have their graduation on the same day with a normal time spacing of 4 hours apart to allow for cleaning and sanitation graduations will be 5 hours apart. All schools are holding some sort of celebration for the alchoal free grad party which were started back when I finished high school in the early 1990s in response to several graduating seniors being lost to drunk driving. Some of the schools are just doing a prize give away with each student getting something. One school is doing a parade of students on a route that is over 5 miles in length so people can socially distance but come cheer the students on as they are driven in a collection of vintage and collector edition cars by an enthusiasts volunteer group. This particualar school has one of the highest numbers of familes on some sort of assistance and as a result is a high poverty level school so it is neat that those kids are getting such a special send off. All of the larger town graduations are going to be televised on local media. At one point they were looking at graduations being over 4-7 days per school with 10 students at a time coming in the auditrium at the individual schools to listen to a recording of the speaches and walk acoss the stage to pick up their diploma. As you can imagine it did not go over well with parents or with students so the district superintendent consulted with medical officials at a local hospital, with the staff at the location where graduations are normally held, and with the county health officer to work out the new plan. Personally I wish they would go back to 1 school graduates on day in the early evening, another school anther day like it was when I graduated instead of holding them all on the same day. The classes today are not able to have the time to decorate the stage and the arena that we did years ago.

Schools here are expected to start as they normally would on time. If needed they will go back to distance learning for a period of time and reevaluate if all students can return to class or if they need to do an alternating schedule. I think our K-8 grade district could do this with those who are on the same bus routes as well as those who live close enough that they are not bused (technially my area is but we are also where students would have to walk along a US Highway so they are bused due to safety reasons) being assigned depending which direction they live from the school as to which group they are in for class room instruction. This would allow K-5th grade space to spread out and 6th-8th grade could be kept in groups of students who are taking the same level in each subject with teachers switching rooms and not students.

The larger K-12 high school district we are in I do not see this happening. Even if they sent the students who are taking university level cooperative program courses onto the university campus or had them attend online at home instead of online in a high school classroom there is not the space plus finding a classroom of students in junior or senior year especially taking the same math class out of 5-7 they can take in each year, the same science class if they are taking one of the 3 offered, the same language and level of forgeign language depending when they started and if they are taking beyond the 2 required years, the same level and for some levels even the type of English Course such as British Lit, advanced compostion and creative writing,Early American Lit, ect to find even 10 students that all subjects are identical and keep them in a group so that teachers can rotate to the rooms and not have over a thousand plus students in the halls at a time for passing. Due to the layout of the multi level buildings where there is a single elevator for students who need acess to it having one way movement in halls is not able to be set up.
At Best in this district if classes can continue under social distancing there is a high chance of seeing 2-3 elementary buildings sharing with either K-2 in one and 3-5 in another or if 3 divided by K-1, 2-3, and 4-5. Assigned days based on their normal school attended. Expanded day for before and after school care as those spaces normally used for this would be providing care for those not in school that day. Families that can encuraged to do distant learning again. Either a shorter school day or one day a week for tutoring appointments to be made for online learners.

Reports I am getting from those who have students who were tossed into online school are it has gone surprising well and was organized. I think part of it is school officials here from district to state level saw this happening in other parts of the country in particular along the pacific coast and started making plans for what would be done regarding sanitation and making plans to move to online instruction if necessary in the two to three weeks prior to our schools shutting down. Schools have been able to get devices issued to students usually in the form of chrome books. Internet companies have offered where possible free internet to families who did not have internet and could not afford to obtain it on their own. Places kept hot spots open so those could be used as well especially for older students who could drive if there was too much traffic at their homes to do class work.
The larger public library was converted into childcare for children of medical workers complete with school work help. Other essential workers were able to place a high number of school age children at the Y and Boys and Girls Club. This helped free up daycares for infants-preschool age as enrollment numbers had to be reduced in order to have distancing based on the license and space. Spaces were held in daycares for non essential workers children on state assistance so they did not have to worry about loosing their spot. In addition the daycares were paid at least part of the normal payment they would have gotten from those families for holding that spot. (not the part paid by the families but some of the state pay amount).

 

[barkley]

Non essential subjects and assignments will be eliminated. Let’s now provide good quality education that will benefit students throughout their life. Yes, I know, how is that defined? Well, we now have a unique opportunity in these extraordinary times to have thoughtful educators, parents, and some government leaders to engage in serious discussions in this area.

since my youngest graduated in '15 our district overhauled it's graduation requirements to what it and the state believe are essential subjects. doing this has resulted in students who attend 7 classes per day so 28 over 4 years. of those 28 units over 4 years students are only permitted to have 2 electives and 2 physical education classes so there's not much that could be eliminated.

Music, art, athletics as well as all other activities, such as band, chorus, dancing, clubs...are important parts of our students education.

i agree but even when i went to high school back in the late 70's much of the above was not done during traditional instructional time. band, choir and art were offered during during regular school hours but athletics was done before and/or after school as was dancing (i'm guessing this is like cheer? with a squad or team?). clubs were strictly during lunch or after school.

i'm wondering if choir will even be offered at this point what with the situation on the west side of our state where a single ill choir member who attended a practice has been traced as the source of infecting 52 of 61 participants at a practice resulting in 2 deaths. granted, the choir members were older and higher risk but it shows how proximity can be dangerous.

 

[EveDallas]

Haven't read all the post here yet... but my son loves distance learning, or rather the fact he doesn't have to go to physical school..but he is still doing well with the distance learning. Our school district transitioned fairly well to the distance learning as they had some plans in the works already, but it is obvious a lot of other districts were in no way prepared to do this and kids are not getting any real instruction. But I really like that the students can work at their own pace without disruptive students slowing them down, have flexibility of when to start the learning, and have the freedom to take breaks as needed.

Will have to see what happens in the fall...but this has been interesting to show an alternate way of learning. Even if it only gets used on snow days or if a school has a maintenance issue, that school can still continue...even if a kid is mildly sick or on vacation that they could still keep up. Yes, there will be many rages against losing the 'fun' of a snow day.

One of the biggest financial issues across the country has been building and upkeep of physical school buildings... I think this will show that in the future that those buildings may not be needed.

One complaint against that will be social interaction... but that can occur outside the learning time, especially if school days are shortened due to not having to travel to school, move between classes, etc. Even in a world where the virus isn't rampant, there could be organized field trips. I don't think being forced to sit in a room with other kids is necessarily beneficial social interaction, especially with all the bullying that happens in schools. The flip side to that being kids who come from not great home lives, where school is an escape from that.

And of course is the 'daycare' aspect of schools so that parents can work and have younger kids supervised for a large portion of the day.. but if physical schools are reduced/eliminated, then the tax money from those could go towards child care of some kind for those who need it.

Extracurricular activities can all be done at the community level.... again, maybe funded by the freed up tax dollars.

Of course, none of that is going to happen very soon, but think this outbreak has shown the possibilities of what could happen.


As to the coming fall, it will be a wait and see. These re-openings will tell what is going to happen over next few weeks. No one really knows how it is going to play out, despite the number who think they do. I don't like the theory that infection rate is low for kids, so it's ok to be crammed together in schools.... we see how colds/flu propagate rampantly in schools as it is.. sure don't want my son in potential epicenter of outbreak.

So what about kids who don't do well with online classes? Or special needs kids who need to be taught in person by qualified teachers? Just because it works for your kid doesn't mean it's time to shutter schools.

 

[HeatherC]

So what about kids who don't do well with online classes? Or special needs kids who need to be taught in person by qualified teachers? Just because it works for your kid doesn't mean it's time to shutter schools.

No where did the poster say schools should be shuttered. She was pondering how schools could possibly operate and or change in some ways going forward. Every post you reply to comes across as very accusatory in nature. Why is that?

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

No where did the poster say schools should be shuttered. She was pondering how schools could possibly operate and or change in some ways going forward. Every post you reply to comes across as very accusatory in nature. Why is that?

Actually he kind of did. He discussed how well his own kid is doing (which is great, btw! I'm happy to hear stories where it's working) and how school buildings may not be needed in the future. I took that post in the same way @EveDallas did - that because remote learning is working for his kid, it should be the wave of the future. And what many of us have said across this thread is that it is NOT working for many of us. So whether that was the intent of the post or not, I took it entirely the same way.

 

[Wendy1985]

@EveDallas can you look at it like your profession is one of the few that are essential, by going to work you allow other estail workers to work

 

[EveDallas]

No where did the poster say schools should be shuttered. She was pondering how schools could possibly operate and or change in some ways going forward. Every post you reply to comes across as very accusatory in nature. Why is that?

Maybe I read it wrong because it sounds like this poster is saying in person school is not needed. Show me where I misunderstood. And I'm not trying to sound accusatory, but I'm worried about the kids that are falling behind and everything I read seems to focus on online learning - which doesn't work for a large number of students.

One of the biggest financial issues across the country has been building and upkeep of physical school buildings... I think this will show that in the future that those buildings may not be needed.

One complaint against that will be social interaction... but that can occur outside the learning time,

And of course is the 'daycare' aspect of schools so that parents can work and have younger kids supervised for a large portion of the day.. but if physical schools are reduced/eliminated, then the tax money from those could go towards child care of some kind for those who need it. Extracurricular activities can all be done at the community level.... again, maybe funded by the freed up tax dollars.

These quotes all sound like advocating for no more physical school. YMMV.

 

[EveDallas]

@EveDallas can you look at it like your profession is one of the few that are essential, by houng to work you allow other estail workers to work

I fully realize that daycare is needed. But so is school. Teachers are just as essential as daycare workers.

 

[greg9x]

So what about kids who don't do well with online classes? Or special needs kids who need to be taught in person by qualified teachers? Just because it works for your kid doesn't mean it's time to shutter schools.

I'm sure there will be 'centers' and programs for kids with issues... this is in my possible future of no physical schools, not the current pandemic distancing. Obviously kids will have different requirements, which is another reason a single school building doesn't work for all students attending. Those who can do distance learning do that, those who have trouble go to places they can get help..but those places will be smaller and more specialized than full on schools.

But the opposite is also true, that what about kids who have issues slowing down the rest of the class ? Yes, I am grateful my son is handling it so well, part of that I believe is he can focus on the work and not be distracted by other kids acting up in class... when was going to school it seems that a significant portion of his classes the teacher is constantly trying to get kids to pay attention, not act up or disturb others.

At home he can concentrate on his school work and knock it out.. it takes him about 1 1/2 hours each day to complete the lessons (which again he does well in, not just half trying). Know some other students have issues and takes them 5 hours. They are both able to work at their own pace to finish the lessons, which seems much better way to do it than both being in the same class trying to accomplish the same thing at the same pace. Since my son doesn't need much help from teacher, she is more available to kids having problems and can give her time there.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't think they know quite what they will do yet because the governor hasn't either, way back in mid-March when all the school buildings were closed in the state the governor did at least set it up as "IF schools..come fall". Anywho my college alma mater has said they have a projected enrollment loss of 12% at this point year over year. I suspect they'll know more come late June/early July but we shall see.

Online I was totally fine with as a short-term solution really in the absence of anything else it seemed feasible. But online long-term for the masses I'm just not behind that for schooling not normally set up that way and with no choice being given. Online education is perfect for some and not for others, one of my sister-in-law's got her diploma through online K-12 program after switching in her sophmore or junior year of high school (can't remember) and she did well enough but I can't imagine the other sister-in-law and my husband having had the same experience knowing them and in college both of them were in aerospace engineering and were frequently in the labs and several courses had them going at various times to have hands on experience with planes.

My school district assigned to me has a program in each other their high schools that students can go for if they qualify. In the assigned high school it's public safety and green tech. The high school is several years old and when they built it it was built with room inside for a police car and then a concrete pad that is extended outside for a firetruck to come. Students are also taught conversational spanish as part of their learning. For greentech it's a lot of renewable energy where they take field trips to wind farms, solar arrays, and hydroelectric power plants, they even build their own wind turbines and electric vehicles, as well as grow their own food.

How can you transition these 15 programs available at the high schools online and still offer the same or even equivalent experience without degrading it significantly? And really that's just a high level but small point being spoken about. So many other more basic things throughout elementary, middle or junior high and high school as well as college that one could go over.

 

[EveDallas]

I'm sure there will be 'centers' and programs for kids with issues... this is in my possible future of no physical schools, not the current pandemic distancing. Obviously kids will have different requirements, which is another reason a single school building doesn't work for all students attending. Those who can do distance learning do that, those who have trouble go to places they can get help..but those places will be smaller and more specialized than full on schools.

But the opposite is also true, that what about kids who have issues slowing down the rest of the class ? Yes, I am grateful my son is handling it so well, part of that I believe is he can focus on the work and not be distracted by other kids acting up in class... when was going to school it seems that a significant portion of his classes the teacher is constantly trying to get kids to pay attention, not act up or disturb others.

At home he can concentrate on his school work and knock it out.. it takes him about 1 1/2 hours each day to complete the lessons (which again he does well in, not just half trying). Know some other students have issues and takes them 5 hours. They are both able to work at their own pace to finish the lessons, which seems much better way to do it than both being in the same class trying to accomplish the same thing at the same pace. Since my son doesn't need much help from teacher, she is more available to kids having problems and can give her time there.

That's why I think parents should have the choice. If online learning works for you and yours, that's great. But eliminating school and sending kids with issues to "centers" (which sounds a lot worse that you probably meant) isn't the answer.

 

[greg9x]

Maybe I read it wrong because it sounds like this poster is saying in person school is not needed. Show me where I misunderstood. And I'm not trying to sound accusatory, but I'm worried about the kids that are falling behind and everything I read seems to focus on online learning - which doesn't work for a large number of students.

One of the biggest financial issues across the country has been building and upkeep of physical school buildings... I think this will show that in the future that those buildings may not be needed.

One complaint against that will be social interaction... but that can occur outside the learning time,

And of course is the 'daycare' aspect of schools so that parents can work and have younger kids supervised for a large portion of the day.. but if physical schools are reduced/eliminated, then the tax money from those could go towards child care of some kind for those who need it. Extracurricular activities can all be done at the community level.... again, maybe funded by the freed up tax dollars.

These quotes all sound like advocating for no more physical school. YMMV.

Yes, I do envision a system different than what we currently have... one in which giant school buildings that all kids have to go to ARE eliminated with specialized centers for those who need them and distance learning for the rest.. This doesn't mean everything is done from home...there would still be field trips, etc. But the need to build and fund buildings then cram kids in to small classes would be eliminated. Not saying it will happen soon, but in time.
Seems everyone is caught up in "This is the way we have always done it." mentality... technological and societal changes will open up vastly different ways of doing things.

 

[amylevan]

K-12 higher education at reduced capacity is stage 3. Then it goes to New normal Which isn’t until there’s a vaccine or cure.

Also, how are people supposed to work if child care, school and summer camps are closed or at limited capacity? (Not asking you directly. Just typing out loud lol)

Ugh. I’m on the other side of Delaware River, but I suspect that Gov Wolf will follow along with this. It goes from Stage 3 with “limited capacity” to normal with a widespread vaccine or treatment. So potentially years of a substandard education? No, hey the cases have gotten so low let’s get back to school?

Even if a vaccine was approved today (spoiler, it won’t be) it’s months until production is ramped up and we start giving the vaccine to everyone. We’re looking at minimum another year of this, more likely until winter 2021/22. Guess I really am homeschooling next year, and likely the next.

 

[EveDallas]

Yes, I do envision a system different than what we currently have... one in which giant school buildings that all kids have to go to ARE eliminated with specialized centers for those who need them and distance learning for the rest.. This doesn't mean everything is done from home...there would still be field trips, etc. But the need to build and fund buildings then cram kids in to small classes would be eliminated. Not saying it will happen soon, but in time.
Seems everyone is caught up in "This is the way we have always done it." mentality... technological and societal changes will open up vastly different ways of doing things.

Then you have much more faith in our leaders that I do. Because when I see an idea of centers for kids with problems being floated, it reminds me of the days that we hid those kids away so "normal" people wouldn't be bothered.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I'm sure there will be 'centers' and programs for kids with issues... this is in my possible future of no physical schools, not the current pandemic distancing. Obviously kids will have different requirements, which is another reason a single school building doesn't work for all students attending. Those who can do distance learning do that, those who have trouble go to places they can get help..but those places will be smaller and more specialized than full on schools.

But the opposite is also true, that what about kids who have issues slowing down the rest of the class ? Yes, I am grateful my son is handling it so well, part of that I believe is he can focus on the work and not be distracted by other kids acting up in class... when was going to school it seems that a significant portion of his classes the teacher is constantly trying to get kids to pay attention, not act up or disturb others.

At home he can concentrate on his school work and knock it out.. it takes him about 1 1/2 hours each day to complete the lessons (which again he does well in, not just half trying). Know some other students have issues and takes them 5 hours. They are both able to work at their own pace to finish the lessons, which seems much better way to do it than both being in the same class trying to accomplish the same thing at the same pace. Since my son doesn't need much help from teacher, she is more available to kids having problems and can give her time there.

Maybe you and I have a different vision of what "working" looks like. My kids are moving quickly through their work as well and are done in under two hours (this is 3rd-10th grades). But that is not how I judge a well rounded education. Are the kids being given the same amount of work they would be if they were in class? Are they following their syllabus from the beginning of the year? I know in my ODD's Honors English class they are not. In fact they had to drop 2 books they were supposed to read this semester. They aren't getting any of their extras right now (library, music, science lab, real PE). Maybe if schools had time to get a well thought out process down, I'd feel differently, but there is no way they are getting the same quality education they would be in the classroom. And this is not a dis at teachers because I know teachers are feeling the same way. And I'm sorry, but a lot of that in the classroom distractions, while frustrating, are learning life skills.

It sounds like online learning may be a good answer for your son and you should definitely explore that. But I do not think it's an answer across the board. How do you even begin to deal with the technology accessibility and divide? How to parents work outside the home? Having issues isn't always academic. My kids are all well above grade level and I am telling you this isn't working, despite them having good grades and getting their work done. As I told our school on a recent survey; don't equate good grades with this being successful.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Ugh. I’m on the other side of Delaware River, but I suspect that Gov Wolf will follow along with this. It goes from Stage 3 with “limited capacity” to normal with a widespread vaccine or treatment. So potentially years of a substandard education? No, hey the cases have gotten so low let’s get back to school?

Even if a vaccine was approved today (spoiler, it won’t be) it’s months until production is ramped up and we start giving the vaccine to everyone. We’re looking at minimum another year of this, more likely until winter 2021/22. Guess I really am homeschooling next year, and likely the next.

I think he will follow along with NJ. Substandard education is exactly right. And who has years of time to homeschool ???

My daughter is a great student. Straight As since kindergarten. She has been getting better grades with online schooling but she constantly tells me she isn’t learning anything.

next year she is set to be in multiple Honors courses as she starts 9th grade. I work full time at a hospital. I don’t have the time to devote hours to supplement what she’s missing with online learning.

DD is self sufficient with the online learning. Her grades are in the 95-98 range per class. I just check her grades to make sure she’s doing what she’s supposed to but it worries me when she says she’s actually not learning anything. Especially when she finishes everything in 1-2 hours.

She needs to be in school learning and interacting with other human beings.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Maybe you and I have a different vision of what "working" looks like. My kids are moving quickly through their work as well and are done in under two hours (this is 3rd-10th grades). But that is not how I judge a well rounded education. Are the kids being given the same amount of work they would be if they were in class? Are they following their syllabus from the beginning of the year? I know in my ODD's Honors English class they are not. In fact they had to drop 2 books they were supposed to read this semester. They aren't getting any of their extras right now (library, music, science lab, real PE). Maybe if schools had time to get a well thought out process down, I'd feel differently, but there is no way they are getting the same quality education they would be in the classroom. And this is not a dis at teachers because I know teachers are feeling the same way. And I'm sorry, but a lot of that in the classroom distractions, while frustrating, are learning life skills.

It sounds like online learning may be a good answer for your son and you should definitely explore that. But I do not think it's an answer across the board. How do you even begin to deal with the technology accessibility and divide? How to parents work outside the home? Having issues isn't always academic. My kids are all well above grade level and I am telling you this isn't working, despite them having good grades and getting their work done. As I told our school on a recent survey; don't equate good grades with this being successful.

you said it much better than I did!

 

[Primeval Princess]

I'm sure there will be 'centers' and programs for kids with issues...

What a horrible suggestion. Put all of the kids with learning issues and disabilities together in some kind of center, where they won't be around normal peers. That is not going to help spectrum children, or any other children, learn to function in the normal world.

For many special needs kids, school serves the huge function of teaching them to socially function by observing and interacting with normal peers. No, this isn't realistically going to happen after school, as many of these kids can barely manage school, let alone extra curriculars that are not led by professionals who know how to work with special needs children.

Eliminating brick and mortar schools would ghetto-ize special needs kids, taking away a major avenue of promotion to normal socialization, education and success. It would also deprive typical children of the opportunity to grow up knowing special needs peers, which is an important part of their learning, as well.