Riviera Resale

[Sandisw]

I totally agree. I think the right price is $100 to $125 resale and they want a 50% up charge for direct, and the restrictions do justify that. To your point, an add on of 25-125 resale buy has a premium over a primary 200/300+ contract. Meaning, I will stay there 2-3 days per year and elsewhere the rest. I doubt someone will make a first time resale contract above 200 points.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander here!!! Look at literally every other DVC resort. Remove the restrictions, help the avid resale people, and help direct buyers retain their value.

or disenfranchise the base Disney Fans...

LOL. Who knows what Disney thinks other than whatever moves they make will because it makes them the most money in the long term not because it is a benefit to resale.

 

[i<3riviera]

͏

 

[EM Lawrence]

I wonder if its someone who thinks there is optimism right now that the resale restrictions will be lifted and wants to capitalize on decent resale prices while they can.

Although the most likely explanation is that this is someone that had a life circumstance change and just needs to sell their points now, and will take a financial hit as a result. Anyone who buys direct and then needs to resell quickly would take a similar hit, but this seller is probably selling before RIV resale settles lower. So, if you need to get out of a RIV contract, now is probably a better time than two years from now.

 

[CP3uhoh]

I wonder if its someone who thinks there is optimism right now that the resale restrictions will be lifted and wants to capitalize on decent resale prices while they can.

Although the most likely explanation is that this is someone that had a life circumstance change and just needs to sell their points now, and will take a financial hit as a result. Anyone who buys direct and then needs to resell quickly would take a similar hit, but this seller is probably selling before RIV resale settles lower. So, if you need to get out of a RIV contract, now is probably a better time than two years from now.

if you thought the resale restrictions were going to be lifted, you wouldn't be selling, 75 point contracts would be worth 160 easy in that scenario and the two that have sold have been 140ish. Nobody has guessed right about what happened with those contracts, that seller has 10 BTW, 2 have sold (one with 73 this year and another with 75) and now the 5 listed. 3 will remain, not sure how many 2020 points are on those. Didn't ask. They originally bought 10, 75 point contracts. He doesn't like the dues and is taking a bath on the sales, supposedly, which isn't hard to imagine being correct.

 

[EM Lawrence]

Yes, but if you thought the market believed resale restrictions would be lifted, it would be a good time to sell. If you had inside knowledge that they were going to be lifted, you would wait.

 

[CP3uhoh]

Yes, but if you thought the market believed resale restrictions would be lifted, it would be a good time to sell. If you had inside knowledge that they were going to be lifted, you would wait.

I don't think the market believes they're going to be lifted, I think people bought direct, decided they needed more points after staying and see 75 points contracts for $55 less than what they paid during pre-construction or before March.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

DVD isn’t selling a contract that is restricted anywhere. So that option remains when you buy from them.

Then plan has been to diminish what you get if you buy resale from a private owner.

Long range it makes perfect sense for the product they want to sell.

IMO, the restriction bother current owners more than new owners I would guess is because it’s a different products then what was originally bought

Over time, resorts like RIV or new ones with resale restrictions will appeal to fewer resale buyers for sure because you will be locked in.

However I know plenty of friends and family who always stay at the same Disney resort as cash guests. So, again, there may be some who are okay with one resort and RCI trades as the only option.

Also, they can change the 7 month window as well for trading out. They could make it 5 and give home resort owners more priority. There is a question if they can legally apply different to direct VZ resale points so I’m not going to comment on that, but you are only guaranteed stays at your own resort Unless it stays part of BVTC.

ETA. They can also create a non home resort points chart that does not have to balance. So there are ways to adjust things to make trading out less appealing.

While it is true that DVC is not selling a restricted contract direct, the resale value is no longer there. RCI timeshares make more sense on resale as RCI is allowed to trade into DVC. While true you might not get your first choice resort, it is more affordable and has better flexibility. Can you imagine if Marriott or Hilton said - sorry you can only book your home resort to resale buyers? I think as the public becomes more informed, DVC will become a tough swallow direct if this is the direction they are moving. Part of what has maintained the value of DVC is the robust resale market. DVC was unique in that there was a pool of resorts to choose from. I can understand their minimum purchase for the blue card, but the resale restrictions on RIV are devastating to families who find they need to sell and sell at a large loss. However, if they implement a change fee for new resale buyers that would be more inline with timeshare standards. I do think there will be resale buyers who are locked out of using their points.

 

[RoseGold]

if you thought the resale restrictions were going to be lifted, you wouldn't be selling

Even if they were lifted, the language would let them add it back. So, even lifting them for now doesn't help RIV buyers.

I guess it could help future RIV buyers if they changed the contracts, but I doubt they can do that.

 

[DVCsloth]

As long as the economy doesn't collapse, I don't see Riviera dropping all that much. I know a lot of people on here know a lot more about this than I do, but I think this resort is going to do pretty well for itself. The resale restrictions don't bother me all that much, I actually enjoy the moonlight magic events and I believe they are payed for with money from direct purchases. I think the smaller contracts should hold up pretty well with the popularity of H.S. EPCOT and the Skyliner. I am a Florida resident so I already get most of the same discounts as DVC members get. I usually by the Silver pass becuse we can usually make it work for 10 days or so each year.

 

[Sandisw]

While it is true that DVC is not selling a restricted contract direct, the resale value is no longer there. RCI timeshares make more sense on resale as RCI is allowed to trade into DVC. While true you might not get your first choice resort, it is more affordable and has better flexibility. Can you imagine if Marriott or Hilton said - sorry you can only book your home resort to resale buyers? I think as the public becomes more informed, DVC will become a tough swallow direct if this is the direction they are moving. Part of what has maintained the value of DVC is the robust resale market. DVC was unique in that there was a pool of resorts to choose from. I can understand their minimum purchase for the blue card, but the resale restrictions on RIV are devastating to families who find they need to sell and sell at a large loss. However, if they implement a change fee for new resale buyers that would be more inline with timeshare standards. I do think there will be resale buyers who are locked out of using their points.

Anyone who is concerned about resale value should not buy RIV if going in they are worried

For me, it is as simple as that because you do have other options. But, I also don’t think resale value should play a role and one should go in assuming at least a 50% value loss if not more and determine how long one must own to make DVC better than cash

As someone who didn’t think I’d like RIV well enough to buy with restrictions, I can honestly say the pros outweigh the cons.

The fact that people have bought Resale contracts for what I consider a decent amount for such a restrictions tell you that so far, RIV has something that people are deciding is more important than trading elsewhere.

DVC cares about sales and based on things so far, prior to pandemic, they were decent enough for them to keep going with the new product.

I guarantee if they build a new resort next to GF close to walking path with restrictions, it would sell as well.

Now I’m not saying DVD May never remove them but honestly, I see no valid reason for them to do so because resale value for owners is not, IMO, something they care about, especially given how forceful the language was in RIV POS to not buy expecting that. Different from what I remember from previous ones.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Anyone who is concerned about resale value should not buy RIV if going in they are worried

For me, it is as simple as that because you do have other options. But, I also don’t think resale value should play a role and one should go in assuming at least a 50% value loss if not more and determine how long one must own to make DVC better than cash

As someone who didn’t think I’d like RIV well enough to buy with restrictions, I can honestly say the pros outweigh the cons.

The fact that people have bought Resale contracts for what I consider a decent amount for such a restrictions tell you that so far, RIV has something that people are deciding is more important than trading elsewhere.

DVC cares about sales and based on things so far, prior to pandemic, they were decent enough for them to keep going with the new product.

I guarantee if they build a new resort next to GF close to walking path with restrictions, it would sell as well.

Now I’m not saying DVD May never remove them but honestly, I see no valid reason for them to do so because resale value for owners is not, IMO, something they care about, especially given how forceful the language was in RIV POS to not buy expecting that. Different from what I remember from previous ones.

There are concerns for resale which still make me pause, one of which being resale buyers will have no choice but to move their points to RCI which means more RIV contracts will be with RCI hence more RIV rooms open to RCI which brings me back to my premise that RCI is a better resale buy for RIV than RIV.

 

[EM Lawrence]

There are concerns for resale which still make me pause, one of which being resale buyers will have no choice but to move their points to RCI which means more RIV contracts will be with RCI hence more RIV rooms open to RCI which brings me back to my premise that RCI is a better resale buy for RIV than RIV.

Will they have to trade out RIV? Or can they trade out another resort like SSR for RIV resale owners? I have to admit, this is an angle I had not considered before.

 

[CarolynFH]

Will they have to trade out RIV? Or can they trade out another resort like SSR for RIV resale owners?

They (Disney) can trade out any DVC resort they choose. For the last couple of years, about the only DVC exchanges offered to RCI members have been 1-bedroom villas at SSR with an occasional OKW or AKV. Very rare to see anything else. This fall has been anomalous, of course, with even BWV being available.

 

[CP3uhoh]

There are concerns for resale which still make me pause, one of which being resale buyers will have no choice but to move their points to RCI which means more RIV contracts will be with RCI hence more RIV rooms open to RCI which brings me back to my premise that RCI is a better resale buy for RIV than RIV.

I don’t think people staying at Riviera are going to be staying at RCI in large numbers .....slightly different. The more resales that go through in the next few years the more owners who will have to own direct to stay there. I’ve seen people say it should settle at $120/pt in a few years. Totally possible, and if you have no plans to take a trip in the next few years that might make some sense but if you pay 140ish today and have the points for three years, what are you “saving” by waiting 3 years which will encompass WDW/MK 50 and Epcot 40. The answer is nothing. Start with $16/pt for 3 years and add in the dues....Then multiply 20 by the points. People are very emotional for whatever reason over these resale restrictions, I get it, but the math on what they’re worth once you own doesn’t change . If you stay at deluxe resorts and go to the resort on a fairly regular basis, the savings are still there. It’s great if your “principal” holds the value or increases but the savings on trips remains and once that resort sells out, and it will at some point, it’s going to be fairly hard to stay there without being a member unlike every other resort on property .

 

[EM Lawrence]

They can trade out any DVC resort they choose. For the last couple of years, about the only DVC exchanges offered to RCI members have been 1-bedroom villas at SSR with an occasional OKW or AKV. Very rare to see anything else. This fall has been anomalous, of course, with even BWV being available.

I imagine because so many points got deposited into RCI.

But I wonder if this will hold true even for owners of RIV resale that choose to deposit into RCI. Because those owners could not book at another resort, I wonder if DVC will still be able to trade out another resort for those points.

 

[Sandisw]

There are concerns for resale which still make me pause, one of which being resale buyers will have no choice but to move their points to RCI which means more RIV contracts will be with RCI hence more RIV rooms open to RCI which brings me back to my premise that RCI is a better resale buy for RIV than RIV.

Much of this assumes a few things though. First, it assumes RIV resale buyers are not going to be able to book or understand to book at 11 months and second, that people want to be able to trade out of RIV and are stuck,

I think after one year of having trouble getting what they want, the resale buyer will quickly learn to book right at 11 months,

I also think anyone buying RIV this way wants it for RIV because they can only stay there, I have said many times there are plenty of cash guests who stay At the same resort, year after year,

Yes, one great aspect of DVC is trading and getting a chance to experience other resorts, But, I don’t think we should assume that everyone is like that,

I would never buy into RCI for Disney. If it was buy one resort and stay there, I’d still buy. The only thing that would have changed in my current plan is I never would have bought SSR, but simply owned the resorts I enjoy.

So, I think worrying about how resale buyers will impact the system now is a little premature because until there are a lot of them...it Is not going to be a big deal for anyone.

 

[Sandisw]

I imagine because so many points got deposited into RCI.

But I wonder if this will hold true even for owners of RIV resale that choose to deposit into RCI. Because those owners could not book at another resort, I wonder if DVC will still be able to trade out another resort for those points.

I don’t think it matters because if the contract between DVC and RCI right now gives Disney the right to deposit whatever room they want, I don’t know why it would be different for RIV points.

Once deposited, they are not DVC points anymore. Again, I don’t know why people assume so many resale buyers will not be using points at RIV. They will, It just may be look different for then and I am going to predict the number who don’t will be rare.

 

[EM Lawrence]

I don’t think it matters because if the contract between DVC and RCI right now gives Disney the right to deposit whatever room they want, I don’t know why it would be different for RIV points.

Once deposited, they are not DVC points anymore. Again, I don’t know why people assume so many resale buyers will not be using points at RIV. They will, It just may be look different for then and I am going to predict the number who don’t will be rare.

Correct me if I‘m wrong about this @Sandisw, but don’t the resale restrictions mean that RIV resale buyers are not members of the Disney Vacation Club? I thought I had seen wording to that effect somewhere, but I could be mistaken. If that is true, I do wonder if those points being traded into RCI will be handled differently. I agree it probably won‘t be a sizable number either way, but there will be times people need to change plans last minute and have no other choice between RCI and losing points.

*Edited to add, do we know for sure that RIV resale buyers will have the option to trade into RCI if needed?

 

[Sandisw]

Correct me if I‘m wrong about this @Sandisw, but don’t the resale restrictions mean that RIV resale buyers are not members of the Disney Vacation Club? I thought I had seen wording to that effect somewhere, but I could be mistaken. If that is true, I do wonder if those points being traded into RCI will be handled differently. I agree it probably won‘t be a sizable number either way, but there will be times people need to change plans last minute and have no other choice between RCI and losing points.

*Edited to add, do we know for sure that RIV resale buyers will have the option to trade into RCI if needed?

They are members of DVC, What they do not hsve is trading rights with those points in the BVTC.

The points owned are still valid to be used in RCI. The deal with DVC and RCI applies to all owners per the contract,

The only language in the POS regarding points is for trading with BVTC. All other things are the same.

 

[RivShore]

There are concerns for resale which still make me pause, one of which being resale buyers will have no choice but to move their points to RCI which means more RIV contracts will be with RCI hence more RIV rooms open to RCI which brings me back to my premise that RCI is a better resale buy for RIV than RIV.

So many assumptions in this. Sandi covered most of what I was going to say but I'll add that the biggest assumption is that there's going to be some giant amount of resale owners. I believe most of the data I've seen on the boards points to just 10-20% of all points since the beginning, being resale - that's what, 30 years of DVC and only 20% max has been resold. It will be a very long time before RIV resales cause any issues with RCI and it may never happen - if the bottom falls out of the Riviera resale price, DVC will just take them back at ROFR and make them full benefit points again.

Also, I remember years ago trying to book a Dis resort with a friends RCI points. It was impossible to find anything during most of the year. Things may have changed now but we never bothered looking again after that annoying experience.