8 days until our trip...and I think we have chicken pox

[twinboysmom]

I have been trying not to get into this debate much. I will say this for those reading that maybe haven't picked a "side". I have been an RN for 14 years. I have spent many years in the ER and a good bit in critical care areas. I have had the unfortunate experience to see a previously healthy infant die from complications of chicken pox. It wasn't pretty people. It is a memory that I can never get rid of. I have never, and I mean never, taken care of a child that had a serious complication from a vaccine. I have seen children sick from measles who were not vaccinated and traveled overseas. Not something I would wish on any child. Since this thread has been around a while, I asked nurses that have been around for longer than I have. Not one could remember taking care of a child that had a serious reaction to a vaccine either. My point is that these so called life threatening complications from vaccines are extremely rare and no where near what the anti vax people try to make others believe.

 

[princessmom29]

I have been trying not to get into this debate much. I will say this for those reading that maybe haven't picked a "side". I have been an RN for 14 years. I have spent many years in the ER and a good bit in critical care areas. I have had the unfortunate experience to see a previously healthy infant die from complications of chicken pox. It wasn't pretty people. It is a memory that I can never get rid of. I have never, and I mean never, taken care of a child that had a serious complication from a vaccine. I have seen children sick from measles who were not vaccinated and traveled overseas. Not something I would wish on any child. Since this thread has been around a while, I asked nurses that have been around for longer than I have. Not one could remember taking care of a child that had a serious reaction to a vaccine either. My point is that these so called life threatening complications from vaccines are extremely rare and no where near what the anti vax people try to make others believe.

THANK YOU for posting this! Sometimes real world experience can make things more real to poeple than numbers on a page.

 

[ZehnJahren]

\.

 

[herdtoDisney]

It may not scare you while they are children but if they *don't* catch it when they are young you really really ought to strongly consider getting them vaccinated when they are a bit older. The older you get, the greater the risk of a bad case.

I wanted my kids to get it as kids-to get the hard immunity. Unfortunately, they never did get it, so I did end up getting them the vaccine. I was worried about them getting it as teens or adults and possibly impacting their fertility.

They didn't have any side effects from the vaccine, but I truly hope that it will offer lifetime protection, and not wear off...leaving them vulnerable as adults. I really worry about future shingles. Time will tell, and I don't know what else I could have done-my oldest was exposed repeatedly as a young child and still didn't get it. As parents, we just make the best decisions we can. I still wish they had just gotten it, as dh and I did as kids.

 

[bwilcox]

I really worry about future shingles.

There IS a shingles vaccine.

 

[princessmom29]

I wanted my kids to get it as kids-to get the hard immunity. Unfortunately, they never did get it, so I did end up getting them the vaccine. I was worried about them getting it as teens or adults and possibly impacting their fertility.

They didn't have any side effects from the vaccine, but I truly hope that it will offer lifetime protection, and not wear off...leaving them vulnerable as adults. I really worry about future shingles. Time will tell, and I don't know what else I could have done-my oldest was exposed repeatedly as a young child and still didn't get it. As parents, we just make the best decisions we can. I still wish they had just gotten it, as dh and I did as kids.

Agian, "hard immunity" is really a myth. Immunity is immunity, wether it comes form the vaccine or catching the disease. There is no difference becuase the vaccine is live. Either you build enough immunity when exposed to fight the disease the next time or you don't. Vaccines are designed to deliver enough of the virus to build proper immunity without getting you sick. Getting a disease DOESN'T always make you immune. There is a small chance you won't be, just like with vaccines.

 

[herdtoDisney]

Then why would I have to get another measles shot if I enrolled in any college in my state? You have to if you were born after they started shots (1957 I believe is the age). They say the immunity wore off

I'm not saying the chicken pox immunity will necessarily wear off. I'm saying I hope it does not.

 

[MommyBell08]

There is a difference in the evidence of Immunity from the disease itself and the vaccine, in particular, the CP Vax. Check out this info on shingles, if you have a cup of coffee and five minutes to read this article.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/05/29/chickenpox-vaccine-part-three.aspx

Also read this from the CDC website.

Evidence of immunity includes any of the following:

Documentation of two doses of varicella vaccine
(Keep in mind the second dose of the vax is not administered until the ages of 4-6)
Blood tests that show you are immune to varicella or laboratory confirmation of prior disease

Born in the United States before 1980, excluding health-care workers, pregnant women, and immunocompromised persons. These individuals need to meet one of the other criteria for evidence of immunity.

Receipt from a healthcare provider of a) a diagnosis of chickenpox or b) verification of a history of chickenpox

Receipt from a healthcare provider of a) a diagnosis of herpes zoster (shingles) or b) verification of a history of herpes zoster (shingles).

You do NOT need the chickenpox vaccine, if you meet any of the above criteria for evidence of immunity.

 

[kacaju]

hmmm...that is interesting. I wonder if that can also include an increase in childhood shingles....due the kids not being around other who are breaking out in CP??

I am wondering because my dd12 had CP at age 6 months, it was a very mild case and she was exposed to it again at age 3 and never got them. At age 9 I had the blood titer taken and showed she was immune. A year later at age 10 she broke out with Shingles.

There were a few others here on the DIS who also had children break out with shingles.

 

[MommyBell08]

hmmm...that is interesting. I wonder if that can also include an increase in childhood shingles....due the kids not being around other who are breaking out in CP??

I am wondering because my dd12 had CP at age 6 months, it was a very mild case and she was exposed to it again at age 3 and never got them. At age 9 I had the blood titer taken and showed she was immune. A year later at age 10 she broke out with Shingles.

There were a few others here on the DIS who also had children break out with shingles.

The comments under the article in the link I posted had similar "Real World" experiences too.

THANK YOU for posting this! Sometimes real world experience can make things more real to poeple than numbers on a page.

...I just want to add, I am not trying to be rude to anyone. I am just asking people to do their research, then make a decision. At the end of the day, its a loosing battle to think everyone will agree with the conclusion you come to.

 

[twinboysmom]

MommyBell08, I noticed that the link you posted is to the mercola.com site. Curious, but have you done any research regarding the physician that this website is affiliated with? This "physician" believes that microwaves are dangerous, that the HIV virus does not cause AIDS, and that homogenized milk is a bad thing. For others, I would urge you to do your research on this man before taking any advice from this site. As I read through articles on this site it clearly Stated that chicken pox does not kill children. I know this is false as I have seen it happen and it wasn't due to any kind of medical error.

As for real world experiences, yes, I will stand behind my experience of being an RN for 14 years. I have two young children and do vaccinate my kids. I would never do this if the risks outweighed the benefits. I do not know a physician or a nurse that does not vaccinate their own children. And I know a lot as that's my circle of friends and acquaintances.

Every person is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. I would recommend though as a health care professional that people consider the recommendations of the American academy of pediatrics over controversial physicians that believe that HIV doesn't cause AIDS.

 

[MommyBell08]

MommyBell08, I noticed that the link you posted is to the mercola.com site. Curious, but have you done any research regarding the physician that this website is affiliated with? This "physician" believes that microwaves are dangerous, that the HIV virus does not cause AIDS, and that homogenized milk is a bad thing. For others, I would urge you to do your research on this man before taking any advice from this site. As I read through articles on this site it clearly Stated that chicken pox does not kill children. I know this is false as I have seen it happen and it wasn't due to any kind of medical error.

As for real world experiences, yes, I will stand behind my experience of being an RN for 14 years. I have two young children and do vaccinate my kids. I would never do this if the risks outweighed the benefits. I do not know a physician or a nurse that does not vaccinate their own children. And I know a lot as that's my circle of friends and acquaintances.

Every person is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. I would recommend though as a health care professional that people consider the recommendations of the American academy of pediatrics over controversial physicians that believe that HIV doesn't cause AIDS.

We do not own a microwave. Food is much more yummy in the toaster oven anyways I think that is is awesome that you have been an RN for 14 years. I do, I am in no way being sarcastic. There are LOTS of MD's in the medical field that do not believe in the CP vaccine, google it. There is REAL information on the internet, even if it doesnt support your side of the story. I happen to take my children to a MD that agrees with me on this. Its alot deeper than HIV doesnt cause AIDS, but to state it that way does sound crazy, like you want it to. Regardless of this, that has nothing to do with the article or the information I posted.

 

[princessmom29]

We do not own a microwave. Food is much more yummy in the toaster oven anyways I think that is is awesome that you have been an RN for 14 years. I do, I am in no way being sarcastic. There are LOTS of MD's in the medical field that do not believe in the CP vaccine, google it. There is REAL information on the internet, even if it doesnt support your side of the story. I happen to take my children to a MD that agrees with me on this. Its alot deeper than HIV doesnt cause AIDS, but to state it that way does sound crazy, like you want it to. Regardless of this, that has nothing to do with the article or the information I posted.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the article nad information you are posting. This guy is not basing any of his conclusions on solid science or real research. His has NO credibility. I personally wouldn't take anything he siad seriously. That goes to EVERYTHING he voices his opinion on. I cannot beleive anyone would take the word of a supposed "scientist" who claims that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Bottom line: The guy is crackpot and I cannot believe any reasonable person would believe anything he says. Just becuase someone is an MD, that doesn't mean they are practicing sound medicine. There are MANY out there that DO NOT. If this is where you are getting your information, I understand now why your perspective is what it is.

AS to the CDC info:
They still don't make a distinction between sources of immunity. They are just listing different was to document that immunity. You can be immune form having the disease OR from getting the vaccine EITHER still means you are immune.

 

[princessmom29]

Then why would I have to get another measles shot if I enrolled in any college in my state? You have to if you were born after they started shots (1957 I believe is the age). They say the immunity wore off

I'm not saying the chicken pox immunity will necessarily wear off. I'm saying I hope it does not.

No, there is a POSSIBILITY that the immunity is not strong enough. This is not true for everyone, and you can have am immune titer done and forgo that shot if you have lasting immunity. Reasearch is showing that some meseals vaccine may not have included enough live virus to build a lasting immunity. The fraction is very small, but enough that snother booster is being given.

That doesn't mean the immunity given by a vaccine is any different however. It is still the same immune response. You could have the same thing happen if you had a mild case of meseals. Your body did not have to fight hard enough against the invaded to establish a healthy level of immune cells. It is still the same type of immune cell. The body's response to vaccine is the exact same mechanism it would use to respond to the disease itself. It is a matter of getting enough cells to respond. If you do that, wether through a vaccine or though contracting the disease, you will have lasting immunity.

 

[twinboysmom]

We do not own a microwave. Food is much more yummy in the toaster oven anyways I think that is is awesome that you have been an RN for 14 years. I do, I am in no way being sarcastic. There are LOTS of MD's in the medical field that do not believe in the CP vaccine, google it. There is REAL information on the internet, even if it doesnt support your side of the story. I happen to take my children to a MD that agrees with me on this. Its alot deeper than HIV doesnt cause AIDS, but to state it that way does sound crazy, like you want it to. Regardless of this, that has nothing to do with the article or the information I posted.

Sorry but it has everything to do with the article and the information you posted. Do not post links from an anti vax website from a DO (he's an osteopath although I don't differentiate, they're just as good IMO) who has views such as he does. While what you post may or may have merit,when posted from a website such as this it is difficult for those in the scientific community to take it seriously.

I read the real information on the internet but I also read the medical journals and the studies that are not. The Internet comtains a lot of "opinions" misrepresented as factual information. Yes, there is some real scientific research out there. I haven't seen any link you have posted in this very long thread that I would meet that criteria. Post something from websites that are not affiliated with any anti vax movements and I will take it as science.

As for your doctor that has practicing for 40 something years, perhaps his views are outdated. I will take the advice from my 42 year old pediatrician and those of my peers in the medical community.

I had no problem finding "scientific data" from the anti vax community on the dangers of the tetanus vaccine but have yet to see any other reaction than a seriously sore arm (they hurt for a few days) and very rarely, a mild rash. I have probably given in the thousands of these. As I said previously, do what you wish with your children. Do I agree with you, nope. I only hope to help anybody on the fence with my "real world" experience. I stand behind what I stated previously that the anti vax community has grossly overestimated the amount of serious reactions to vaccines.

 

[M5ward]

Wow, wow, and wow! I just finished reading all 20 pages of this thread...and WOW! This has been one of the most (if not THE most) contentious discussions I have seen on a forum. I can't believe how judgmental and nasty people can be to each other. Yes, I've seen it in other threads, but this one goes above and beyond. It seems like many people don't bother to actually read a comment through before making a nasty, scathing response. I can't believe that there actually seemed to be posters who had NO sympathy for the sick child; their only reaction was to show derision and disdain for the OP.
As a child I had measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox...that fact should make my approximate age apparent. My children had whatever immunizations that were available as they grew up; three got chicken pox and two did not, but the vaccine didn't become available until the mid 90s and by then my youngest was about 15. As an adult, I have had tetanus boosters, the Zostavax vaccine for shingles, and the pertussis vaccine; the point of this being that obviously I am pro vaccinations. I do not, however, like the fact that it is so common now to give four and five immunizations at a time to babies and toddlers. Two of my children have opted to space their children's immunizations so that they are never getting more than two injections.
While I might not agree with the OPs decision not to immunize her children against chicken pox, I totally agree that it is HER decision to make, not mine...or yours. The fact that some posters were outright hostile and condemning is disheartening. The "horse" was dead long before the twentieth page. Reports, data, information, journal articles, scientific percentages, etc. are all open to interpretation and are based on some expert's research which is often colored by that expert's own biases. That there were some who actually derided the way the OP and her family choose to vacation (maybe parks, maybe not) was rude and ignorant.
To the OP...I hope your children are all healthy now and that you have a wonderful Christmas. WDW will be there when you can enjoy the trip with your family.
Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas!

 

[Svhadden]

You do know there are two sides to this story right, because you talk so matter of fact. Many Doctors as well as people in the medical field choose to opt out of vaccines for many reasons.

From what I have read in recent studies of the CP vaccine, after the age of ten the the immunity from the vaccine is severely compromised, and ppl are questioning its effectiveness without a booster. If this is true, the time when children would usually get the disease and it is the least dangerous to them, is the time the vaccinated children are immune from it. They then get the disease at a more dangerous time in life.

Also, I have read that if you get the disease naturally, and nurse your children, you give natural immunities in your breast milk. Apparently you do not give these same immunities through your milk if you get the vaccine and not the pox. Just sayin'.

I realize you feel strongly that ppl should vaccinate, but not every country has the CP vaccine as a regularly recommended vaccine. You may want to avoid Disney World because people visit from lots of other countries!

Everyone that decides to vaccinate or not is making the choice that they feel is right. Hopefully they do their research, and feel peace with that decision. I know your response will be that their choice effects your child, but I'm pretty sure everyone (yourself included) is more concerned about their own children either way.

Good for you, MommyBell, for taking the initiative to educate yourself and make an informed decision for your family. Recent surveys have shown that the more educated a parent is, the less likely they are to vaccinate. But it's apparent that you can't force someone to pull their head out of the sand, no matter how many facts you show them. I'm willing to bet that most of the parents who vaccinate their children and themselves have never even read the package insert that comes with the vaccines. That's all it took to start me on my own journey 11 years ago to learn the facts.

You're right...everyone has to make their own decision, hopefully based on facts, not fear, not just what a pediatrician or pharmaceutical company asserts, and not based on what their hair-dressers next door neighbors sister-in-law says. If other people want to believe that a vaccine is a miracle panacea, they have every right. But, after having educated myself, I have every right NOT to believe.

 

[MommyBell08]

Good for you, MommyBell, for taking the initiative to educate yourself and make an informed decision for your family. Recent surveys have shown that the more educated a parent is, the less likely they are to vaccinate. But it's apparent that you can't force someone to pull their head out of the sand, no matter how many facts you show them. I'm willing to bet that most of the parents who vaccinate their children and themselves have never even read the package insert that comes with the vaccines. That's all it took to start me on my own journey 11 years ago to learn the facts.

You're right...everyone has to make their own decision, hopefully based on facts, not fear, not just what a pediatrician or pharmaceutical company asserts, and not based on what their hair-dressers next door neighbors sister-in-law says. If other people want to believe that a vaccine is a miracle panacea, they have every right. But, after having educated myself, I have every right NOT to believe.

THANK YOU for saying this. It honestly makes me tear up. I am very passionate about vaccine information. Also, I am very, very passionate about MY KIDS! LOL! I have been flamed over and over on this thread, and was over trying to respond. When I saw the email notification that someone commented here again, I was bracing myself for another attack, and your post was a breath of fresh air. I cant wait til DH gets home so I can tell him someone actually was nice to me here.. LOL.. Thanks, Seriously.

 

[princessmom29]

Good for you, MommyBell, for taking the initiative to educate yourself and make an informed decision for your family. Recent surveys have shown that the more educated a parent is, the less likely they are to vaccinate. But it's apparent that you can't force someone to pull their head out of the sand, no matter how many facts you show them. I'm willing to bet that most of the parents who vaccinate their children and themselves have never even read the package insert that comes with the vaccines. That's all it took to start me on my own journey 11 years ago to learn the facts.

You're right...everyone has to make their own decision, hopefully based on facts, not fear, not just what a pediatrician or pharmaceutical company asserts, and not based on what their hair-dressers next door neighbors sister-in-law says. If other people want to believe that a vaccine is a miracle panacea, they have every right. But, after having educated myself, I have every right NOT to believe.

This is true in the liberal arts, but the statistics go COMPLETELY in the other direction for those in the SCIENCES. The people who actually UNDERSTAND the science behind what they are reading. The higher the level of education in the sciences, the more likely that parents choose to vaccinate. This also holds true of those in the mediacl profession. The more advanced the degree, the more likley that paretns vaccinate. Coming from a biochemist, I can understand why someone with a doctorate in English might think they are doing the right thing by following along with all of the propganda and not vaccinating their kids. It seems like the latest "I'm smarter and more enlightened than you" trend amoung the liberal arts set. The university I researched at was divided on this issue almost exclusively along department lines. Math and Science chose to vaccinate, liberal arts did not. Personally, I think the biology, virology, and epidimology are more qualified to evaluate the studies.

 

[MommyBell08]

This is true in the liberal arts, but the statistics go COMPLETELY in the other direction for those in the SCIENCES. The people who actually UNDERSTAND the science behind what they are reading. The higher the level of education in the sciences, the more likely that parents choose to vaccinate. This also holds true of those in the mediacl profession. The more advanced the degree, the more likley that paretns vaccinate. Coming from a biochemist, I can understand why someone with a doctorate in English might think they are doing the right thing by following along with all of the propganda and not vaccinating their kids. It seems like the latest "I'm smarter and more enlightened than you" trend amoung the liberal arts set. The university I researched at was divided on this issue almost exclusively along department lines. Math and Science chose to vaccinate, liberal arts did not. Personally, I think the biology, virology, and epidimology are more qualified to evaluate the studies.

WOW! Seriously? YOU ARE THE SMARTEST WOMAN ALIVE~ Its really nice to meet you. Can I get an autograph? Who are you again? Oh, the only person to have a degree in biochemistry the world. That's right. Ill send you my Disney autograph book. Do you honestly feel that ppl choose to opt out of a vaccine are just not understanding the science behind it? People devote their ENTIRE lives researching this, and have multiple degrees, as well as the complete capacity to understand the "science" behind it, and choose NOT TO VACCINATE. Its spelled epidemiology. Unreal.