A horrible rumor to spread

[starlite_]

That's a good point. A lot of fans don't understand why they make these things for kids. I remember when Seven Dwarves Mine Train opened and people were complaining that it was a "kiddie coaster." Yeah, a roller-coaster in Fantasyland is kid friendly - I'm shocked! It's like some wouldn't be happy unless it was a 20-story mega-coaster with inversions where the riders pull 5 Gs!

There's nothing wrong with this stuff being for kids. You can eitehr still appreciate it or not, but i fnot, then it's not for you. As a single adult without kids I've never done a Disney Cruise. I sometimes kinda want to, but I know they are very kid focused. The parks are a little more appealing, but they still have stuff just for kids, like the Disney Junior show or The Boneyard - and that's all good.

Star Wars is for kids anyway...

...The kids inside us all!

100% agree, I don't need it to be for me. But I do wish their marketing reflected and embraced that instead of trying to appeal to 3-4 clashing audiences. It's like they can't make up their minds.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Luke... I mean we will just have to disagree. Like I get what you are saying about it being right out of the Jedi playbook, but Luke never followed that playbook. He always had too much of his father in him. Just look at how he ran off to confront Vader despite the pleadings and warnings of both Yoda and Ben. I'm sorry - but your dead mentor just came back to life only to tell you to follow the playbook and train and stay hidden and not run off on some damn fool rescue mission like his father did. YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO HIM. But that was never Luke. That was never in the Skywalker blood. His father was the same way.

Yeah gotta agree here as well. So much of what they did for the sequels seems to have been subverting expectations but at the same time doing exactly the same things in the OT which just clashed everywhere. The characters were one dimensional with ZERO growth and no arch. I mean as flat as a damn pancake. I'm all about great writing and great stories and 7-9 had none of that. The aesthetics were lovely I'll give you that. The worlds were very rich and detailed but it's like the storytelling of it and any originality...which in my opinion is what makes Star Wars...Star Wars...was sorely lacking. I think now that the "trilogy" is over they can start fresh hopefully and I think Mandalorian and Boba Fett are great starts as we have a connection to the universe but we're now clear of the Skywalkers...sort of except for cameos.

PS I hate it when posters hijack threads and turn it into something else and that's literally what we've done with our nerdiness. So sorry to the OP.

 

[dd316]

This is DISNEYFIED Star Wars which is why it's such a colossal mess.

I listened to Jackie talk about it on the podcast recently and her POV is positive because she's looking at it FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.

There are different levels of Star Wars fans. We are NOT one size fits all.

And Disney has shown that they do NOT understand the core fanbase.

I am ONLY speaking to what I see in the parks as I have fewer issues with the TV/Movies and Rogue One is now my 2nd favorite of the entire saga.

The Star Wars Universe is not a choice between Frosty Blue Milk and Frosty Green Milk. It's not Kat Saka's fancy popcorn and a Ronto Wrap.

It's Darth Vader wiping out an entire ship of people in search of stolen plans. It's Han shooting Greedo first. It's the HERO of Rogue One killing a man who is ON HIS SIDE to prevent his capture by the Empire and protect the Rebellion. It's dirty. Gritty. And messy.

So whatever they do in the parks should only reflect that side of Star Wars? Not everything in the Star Wars universe is dirty, gritty and messy.

Star Wars is also an ex-smuggler realizing there are things other than himself worth fighting for. It's a kid risking his life in a race to help strangers. It's a couple of robots having reluctant adventures with each other. It's a princess awarding medals to heroes.

You don't think people in the Star Wars universe choose between blue and green milk, or snacks and sandwiches? You don't have to pretend you're Darth Vader killing a bunch of rebels to be in that universe. It's a BIG universe.

 

[BrianL]

So whatever they do in the parks should only reflect that side of Star Wars? Not everything in the Star Wars universe is dirty, gritty and messy.

Star Wars is also an ex-smuggler realizing there are things other than himself worth fighting for. It's a kid risking his life in a race to help strangers. It's a couple of robots having reluctant adventures with each other. It's a princess awarding medals to heroes.

You don't think people in the Star Wars universe choose between blue and green milk, or snacks and sandwiches? You don't have to pretend you're Darth Vader killing a bunch of rebels to be in that universe. It's a BIG universe.

Yeah, I don't think of Star Wars as "gritty" at all. It was always basically a live-action cartoon. Even the grittier aspects were pretty clean. Also, as much as people don't want to accept it, Han didn't shoot first, and honestly, I never understood why that matters so much. It didn't materially change the story at all.

 

[SkyGuy]

Yeah, I don't think of Star Wars as "gritty" at all. It was always basically a live-action cartoon. Even the grittier aspects were pretty clean. Also, as much as people don't want to accept it, Han didn't shoot first, and honestly, I never understood why that matters so much. It didn't materially change the story at all.

In the original version (the one I saw in theaters) Han actually shot Greedo down in cold blood, so not only did he shoot first, he was the only shooter.

 

[Skywalker3]

DH and I have been die hard SW fans since back in the day. I was 7 in 77, and DH was 6. We relate to Cassian saying 'I've been in this fight since I was 6 years old.' I was even in the fan club in the early 80s, have my old Bantha tracks, etc.
My reminder that SW is for kids, is when I saw Phantom Menace the third time. By then, I'd developed a deep, seething hatred for Jar Jar, even now , when I watch, I like to skip all the Gungan scenes when possible. But there were 2 kids laughing and laughing at all the Jar Jar stuff, and it hit me, 'this is for them.'

My kids' favorites are the prequels and the Clone wars series, where DH and I are OT fanatics, BUT we also love CW, REbels,Solo (we just watched Solo last night) , , ROgue one, Mandalorian, etc. I liked RoTS. We're mixed on the sequels. I liked Force Awakens, love Rey ,. we both dislike TLJ , and both are of the mind that Rian Johnson ruined it. However, I LOVE the scenes w Rey and Kylo Ren. I watch those, skipping ALL the rest.

When they announced the SW hotel, DH and I knew it wasn't going to be for us, or really intended for the serious SW fans. From the start, it looked like what Disney-fied, like it was geared toward Disney fans, who also happen to like SW, OR families, whose kids are into SW, and the parents are just there because they have to be, or people who just have extra money to blow. We don't want to get all decked out in our costumes, trying to immerse ourselves, and then have the experience ruined by other folks who are not into it, or denigrating the folks who are. I've been to 2 SW Celebrations, (hope to go to more.) and being surrounded by, fans who love it as much as you, who all want to be there, is just beyond awesome. I hope the hotel will end up offering some things for the die hard fans. Maybe experiences/set ups/role playing etc for some, and the more casual fans can do something else. Can always tweak it all as time goes by.

Yeah, I don't think of Star Wars as "gritty" at all. It was always basically a live-action cartoon. Even the grittier aspects were pretty clean. Also, as much as people don't want to accept it, Han didn't shoot first, and honestly, I never understood why that matters so much. It didn't materially change the story at all.

Will agree to disagree.....Han shot first! Love that scene in Solo!
I think people do like gritty nowadays, which is why Rogue One was so well accepted. That scene where Cassian shoots/kills a fellow rebel, that's gritty. That's mostly not in Solo, which is more light-hearted, like feel good Ron Howard fare, but we still enjoy Solo, it's just different.

 

[BrianL]

In the original version (the one I saw in theaters) Han actually shot Greedo down in cold blood, so not only did he shoot first, he was the only shooter.

Yes, but that was revised. Really, it wasn't "in cold blood" as he was being held at gunpoint, but people were interpreting it that way and seeing Han as a murderer, so they changed it. That's the official story now, even though some can't accept it.

Will agree to disagree.....Han shot first! Love that scene in Solo!
I think people do like gritty nowadays, which is why Rogue One was so well accepted. That scene where Cassian shoots/kills a fellow rebel, that's gritty. That's mostly not in Solo, which is more light-hearted, like feel good Ron Howard fare, but we still enjoy Solo, it's just different.

Han does shoot first in Solo, but they added a lot more context around it. It doesn't really change anything though. Even if Han HAD shot Greedo first int eh cantina, it would have been in self defense. Han was not that much of a scoundrel - never was. Some fans seem to want him to be though, which is why the misinterpreted scene changed. To me, it makes little difference, but I accepted the original context as well as the new version. Star Wars is still not very gritty by any measure, though Rogue One is the closest thing to it I guess.

 

[Nabas]

Yeah, I don't think of Star Wars as "gritty" at all. It was always basically a live-action cartoon. Even the grittier aspects were pretty clean. Also, as much as people don't want to accept it, Han didn't shoot first, and honestly, I never understood why that matters so much. It didn't materially change the story at all.

There are 2 different cuts of the scene. In the original, Han shoots first. See:

Like you, I don’t think it particularly matters. Han clearly was in great peril and shooting first is completely in character.

Relating this back to this thread, what distinguished Star Wars from so many other science fiction movies in 1977 was that, except for the Empire ships, everything looked used and worn. The Milenium Falcon, x-wings, etc. did not look like new props made for a film.

As a “cruise ship”, it makes sense for the Starcruiser to look clean and new. However, from what we’ve seen, the Starcruiser lacks the detail/texture we have come to expect from Star Wars films and live action shows.

 

[SkyGuy]

Double post with weird formatting

 

[SkyGuy]

Sorry - not really sure why my comment appeared to be within your post BrianL so I’ll add it here:

Yes, I have the archive book in which Lucas explains his reasons for changing it. In fact I have two copies for some reason…anyway, I don’t think SW fans can’t accept it; I think they know it’s a good and proper edit. I think SW fans as a whole like to be a divisive bunch - if you’re not with me, then you’re my enemy. Just fall down the rabbit hole that is SW Twitter or Reddit. I’m actually enjoying this thread even though it is waaay off topic (sorry OP) because, so far, it has been very congenial

 

[BrianL]

There are 2 different cuts of the scene. In the original, Han shoots first. See:

Like you, I don’t think it particularly matters. Han clearly was in great peril and shooting first is completely in character.

Relating this back to this thread, what distinguished Star Wars from so many other science fiction movies in 1977 was that, except for the Empire ships, everything looked used and worn. The Milenium Falcon, x-wings, etc. did not look like new props made for a film.

As a “cruise ship”, it makes sense for the Starcruiser to look clean and new. However, from what we’ve seen, the Starcruiser lacks the detail/texture we have come to expect from Star Wars films and live action shows.

I agree with you about Han, it really doesn't chnge much which is why I never understood the hangup with it. I will admit that the origianl Special Edition cut looked kind of goofy jsut because of the editing, but they actually corrected that in later releases. They now actually almost shoot at the same time and it looks better. That's the official version now.

Yeah, the point was that the people were suffering under The Empire - the Empire had the nice and shiny stuff, while the citizens didn't. The prequels show the opposite, where at least the denizens of the inner systems like Naboo and Coruscant have the good stuff.

 

[Boski]

I agree with you about Han, it really doesn't chnge much which is why I never understood the hangup with it. I will admit that the origianl Special Edition cut looked kind of goofy jsut because of the editing, but they actually corrected that in later releases. They now actually almost shoot at the same time and it looks better. That's the official version now.

Yeah, the point was that the people were suffering under The Empire - the Empire had the nice and shiny stuff, while the citizens didn't. The prequels show the opposite, where at least the denizens of the inner systems like Naboo and Coruscant have the good stuff.

I guess George had a hangup with it later in life lol. It didn't need to be changed and I agree his actions were totally justified in shooting Greedo. My thing is the edit makes Greedo, a bounty hunter, look so incompetent to miss Han from point blank range.

 

[BrianL]

I guess George had a hangup with it later in life lol. It didn't need to be changed and I agree his actions were totally justified in shooting Greedo. My thing is the edit makes Greedo, a bounty hunter, look so incompetent to miss Han from point blank range.

Yeah, but how do we know Greedo isn't incompetent? I mean, he's maybe not the cream of the crop like Boba Fett or something. There aer plenty of characters like that in the Star Wars galaxy. He's a bit goofy if you ask me. Also, in the final cut, the shots are more-or-less at the same time, so he may have been thrown off.

 

[Pickles516]

Honestly, I hope it tanks just enough to get Chapek and D’amaro out and then hopefully some new execs will turn it into something special.

 

[Jrb1979]

Honestly, I hope it tanks just enough to get Chapek and D’amaro out and then hopefully some new execs will turn it into something special.

Not likely as this wasn't their project. It was created under Iger.

 

[Pickles516]

Not likely as this wasn't their project. It was created under Iger.

A guy can hope.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

I agree with you about Han, it really doesn't chnge much which is why I never understood the hangup with it. I will admit that the origianl Special Edition cut looked kind of goofy jsut because of the editing, but they actually corrected that in later releases. They now actually almost shoot at the same time and it looks better. That's the official version now.

Yeah, the point was that the people were suffering under The Empire - the Empire had the nice and shiny stuff, while the citizens didn't. The prequels show the opposite, where at least the denizens of the inner systems like Naboo and Coruscant have the good stuff.

I'm going to have to also disagree about the original being him not shooting first only because I have the old VHS and I can watch right now that confirms he did in fact shoot Greedo simply as a proactive measure to save his own life. HOWEVER...that said, I really don't care. But if you're saying that he didn't shoot first because of Lucas revisionism then I'm not the type of person who cares or believes in that kind of thing. Something was written and filmed and released and it then entered the public domain. Lucas wants to go back and change it for some reason...I don't have to buy it because that's not what I know to be the way it actually happened. That's why I'm also the type of fan that doesn't care about all the extra books and cartoons and canon that's released as a way to shore up loose ends and plot holes simply because that's exactly why it's created and not for any other purpose. Big pet peeve.

Your point about the prequels is spot on though. We needed to see why and how the Empire became what it became. Just like...unfortunately...many real life example...evil and darkness has to have the support of the people for it to actually succeed. AND THAT'S EXACTLY where the sequels failed. How, after the Empire is absolutely annihilated, do they become bigger and badder than ever before within a matter of years with no viable reason for it to have happened. OK OK forget that. Let's just ASSUME somehow someway that happened. Wouldn't the better storytelling have been a shift back to way it was in the prequels. Perhaps showing how the good guys didn't learn their lessons? Perhaps oh I don't know, giving some sort of sympathy to the First Order so as to build complex characters instead of flat 1 dimensional good vs. evil tropes. Yes they sort of tried to do that with Kylo at the very end...meh too little too late. So many people poopoo the naysayers of the Sequels for so many reasons but in reality the Sequels were bad because the STORY was bad. All of it very poorly written and characters that gave you no reason to care about any of them or their story archs.

Happy New Year all

 

[BrianL]

I'm going to have to also disagree about the original being him not shooting first only because I have the old VHS and I can watch right now that confirms he did in fact shoot Greedo simply as a proactive measure to save his own life. HOWEVER...that said, I really don't care. But if you're saying that he didn't shoot first because of Lucas revisionism then I'm not the type of person who cares or believes in that kind of thing. Something was written and filmed and released and it then entered the public domain. Lucas wants to go back and change it for some reason...I don't have to buy it because that's not what I know to be the way it actually happened. That's why I'm also the type of fan that doesn't care about all the extra books and cartoons and canon that's released as a way to shore up loose ends and plot holes simply because that's exactly why it's created and not for any other purpose. Big pet peeve.

Your point about the prequels is spot on though. We needed to see why and how the Empire became what it became. Just like...unfortunately...many real life example...evil and darkness has to have the support of the people for it to actually succeed. AND THAT'S EXACTLY where the sequels failed. How, after the Empire is absolutely annihilated, do they become bigger and badder than ever before within a matter of years with no viable reason for it to have happened. OK OK forget that. Let's just ASSUME somehow someway that happened. Wouldn't the better storytelling have been a shift back to way it was in the prequels. Perhaps showing how the good guys didn't learn their lessons? Perhaps oh I don't know, giving some sort of sympathy to the First Order so as to build complex characters instead of flat 1 dimensional good vs. evil tropes. Yes they sort of tried to do that with Kylo at the very end...meh too little too late. So many people poopoo the naysayers of the Sequels for so many reasons but in reality the Sequels were bad because the STORY was bad. All of it very poorly written and characters that gave you no reason to care about any of them or their story archs.

Happy New Year all

No, I am not saying that in the original Han didn't shoot first - I know that. I've seen the original many, many times. The Special Edition is where they changed that, but in the first version where tey added Greedo's shot it looked a little silly because of the jump-cut. They fixed that later. Me, I can accept that because who knows what han Solo would do more than George Lucas. It's his character and his decision and it is still the official version as of right now. Also, it changes absolutely nothing about Han's character - it was only changed because of people misinterpreting it. For some reason there are a lot of fans who want Han to be a cold-blooded killer - they like him that way for some inexplicable reason. If her were sucha cold-blooded killer, he wouldn't be a worthy hero.

I will admit that the sequels left out some of the politics that explain it. The New Republic didn't believe that the Firs tOrder could ever rise to challenge them, and wouldn't fully fund the fight against them. Leia knew better and fought for it, but was forced out, so she started her REsistance, which is basically a PMC, and receoved scant funding from some worlds that backed her. To me it would have been more interesting to see, but fan's whined so much about the politics in the prequels, that they were afraid to show it. The Force Awakens practically eschews the prequels, and when you have avowed prequel haters liek Simon Pegg helping with the script, it were bound to go in the direction of an OTlove-fest. The Last Jedi touched on it a little more, some of the war profiterring sutff, but it's still glossed over. That said, for me, I still enjoy the sequels and like the characters without all that - it just plays differently. I wouldn't have hated more of that back-story though.

I don't follow any of the books really, but I do love the cartoons. They do exist as more than to fill in plot details, that's just a side benefit. The Clone Wars gave us Ahsoka and Rebels gave us, well, all of them, and they were fantastic!

 

[Grasshopper2016]

I wonder how many of the cancellations are pandemic related, rather than being precipitated by the shoddy videos. If I could afford to do this, I would definitely wait until the experience was not tainted by Covid. Masks already make it hard to fully escape at Disney. (I'm definitely pro-mask, and wore mine constantly on my recent trip. But it's hard to deny that they make the experience a little less escapist and magical. And, of course, many people are avidly opposed to wearing masks or find them very uncomfortable.) I suppose that Disney could work a "galactic epidemic" into the story. But presumably, they wouldn't, and the suspension of reality will be that much harder. Plus, being fully indoors without even a window for two full days with hundreds of strangers is not the safest Covid vacation. Maybe a lot of the people who have canceled originally booked assuming (or at least hoping) that the pandemic would be over by 2022. Now that that seems unlikely, maybe they are just holding off.

 

[Monorail_Man_NJ]

That hotel looks like a BUST. No creativity anymore with Bob Chapek at the reigns. He's got to be Disney's WORST Ceo of all time. Eisneer made some poor decisions as well but he was WAY BETTER than Chapek.

Did anyone notice that D23 was sponsored by TOPPS. The current CEO of TOPPS is Eisneer. Hmmm