A question for Indiana parents/teachers

[WL Fan]

We're planning a February 2012 trip. My sister-in-law and her family were planning on joining us, until she found out last week that the day we get back is the day before her 3rd grader will start taking the ISTEP. She talked briefly with a kindergarten teacher who told her the week before wouldn't be a good time to go, as the kids are busy practicing to take the test during the week we would be gone.

Any thoughts? Is there any way we could practice with him before or during our trip? I would assume that most of the review goes on at different times during the preceeding year, not crammed into the week before, so how much review would he actually be missing? I should add, he's a good student, so no problems there.

Thanks so much!

 

[readytogotodisney]

We're from IN, and I really don't think there is much review at all. I know my niece (currently in the 3rd grade) just took the test a few weeks back I could ask her if you'd like.

 

[1osfan]

As an Indiana teacher and parent, I'll give you my thoughts from both sides. First, the ISTEP is very important to the school. ISTEP results are one of the top evaluating tools that the state uses to assess schools. The school will take the test very seriously. Most likely, the teacher will spend the week before preparing the class for the test. Not just the material - they have been doing that all year - but, also, the test itself. I would imagine they will spend some time showing the class what to expect - what the questions will look like, the format, etc. Since you said the student is in 3rd grade, that will probably add to the preparation. 3rd grade is the first time the kids take the ISTEP.

As a parent and also as an individual teacher, I'll tell you this. The best thing you (or your family) can do is talk to the teacher. Since you are talking about missing the week BEFORE the test and being home in time for the test, the teacher may be able to give you material to take with you.

 

[andymattmom]

Indiana here also. We went the week AFTER it was taken when my boys were in 1st and 3rd (now 10th and 8th grade). It was no issue then because we made sure they were at school that day.

I sub at the elementary where my boys used to go north of Indy. I can tell you that they do practice lots the week before as 1osfan stated. They get sample questions, etc and work them. They review and more importantly discuss HOW TO TAKE THE TEST. It is one thing to get the answer right or wrong, but in the writing you have to answer specific questions or you get points off. On the math problems you have to show work or explain your answer. Taking it for the first time is going to be a new experience for your child. She will have just come back from a vacation and probably be tired and not really wanting to go to school or get back into the swing of things. I would go the week after if that is an option. The tests are important and being a newbie taking it will be stressful...adding just returning to school, excited to tell friends about trip and having to take a state test. I wouldn't.

 

[npcougar]

My wife is a elementary teacher and we would never pull our student out the week before ISTEP, especially in the third grade. If I'm not mistaken, the third grade is the first time they take the test. Not only is the week before a chance to review, but a chance to prepare how to take the test. The ISTEP is a critical test and schools can make many decisions based on its results.

 

[WL Fan]

We're from IN, and I really don't think there is much review at all. I know my niece (currently in the 3rd grade) just took the test a few weeks back I could ask her if you'd like.

That would be great! My husband and I were (are) pretty laid back parents, and took our kids out several times for Disney trips. If it was me, I'd have no problem taking my third grader out before the test, but I don't want to encourage my sister in law to do the same without knowing more about the test.

Thanks for the replies, it's nice to get a bunch of different opinions.

 

[andymattmom]

We're from IN, and I really don't think there is much review at all. I know my niece (currently in the 3rd grade) just took the test a few weeks back I could ask her if you'd like.

Honestly, have you been in the school during the week prior to ISTEP? They do so much review it is amazing! My junior high son had no homework BUT everyday they were reviewing for ISTEP. I was subbing the entire week prior to ISTEP due to a death in a teacher's family. This was 4th grade. Each day we reviewed most of the day---these are actual sample problems for math, they do writing prompts so they learn how to answer the questions correctly. IMHO asking a 3rd grader how much they reviewed isn't going to be much help. There is a post by a teacher a few above this stressing how much they review for the tests. Especially for a third grader who has never taken a test.

OP in the end will do what she wants. She posted and asked opinions and that is what she is getting. The majority think taking a third grader out the week prior to ISTEP is a bad idea. That child is NOT going to be ready when she returns to school. Going from being at Disney one day to in school IN YOUR SEAT NOT ABLE TO TALK one or two days later is a lot to ask of any child OR adult!

OP really think hard, take advice from adults rather than a third grader. Ask the 3rd grade teachers in your child's school system their opinions---that is the best option. I would honestly be wondering about the quality of a school system IF they do little or no review for ISTEP! Asking the teachers at your school is going to get you the best advice. Is there any way to schedule the week after ISTEP is done. It only takes one week (schedule shows 2, but second is for make-up from absences--only issue might be if there is a snow day in there and they have to go into second week).

 

[ceemys]

As others have said, 3rd grade is the first time for the ISTEP. There is so much pressure put on these kids. The teachers and principals talk about it many times and put a lot of stress on reviewing and not missing out the week before and the week of the ISTEP. These tests give the schools ratings, which counts towards the funding the schools receive. The actual test is what they have already gone over and sometimes something that they haven't reviewed yet. Since it is next year, you obviously don't know the teacher. I would see if she can talk to a current 3rd grade teacher and get her thoughts.

 

[AJRitz]

To be blunt, there is nothing about ISTEP tests that is particularly beneficial to your child. The test isn't about your child. It's about the school. The school will discourage absences, because they are trying to game the test results to make themselves look as good as possible (and I don't blame the schools for this - I blame the silly obsession with standardized testing. The schools are stuck with the testing regime, they didn't ask for it). But the bottom line is that the timing of those tests shouldn't play any role whatsoever in your decisions about when to partake in family activities.

Bottom line - Your child receives zero benefit from doing well on the ISTEP, and suffers zero detriment if he or she performs poorly. It is one measure that can be used for initial placement, but particularly since it's the first time the test would be taken, other evaluations can also provide evidence for more appropriate placement if initial placement is improper for that child's skill/ability level.

 

[amym2]

I have a 3rd grader this year and he just took the ISTEP a couple of weeks ago. He wasn't stressed about it, but I do think that if we had been gone the week before the test, he might have worried about it more. He's an excellent student, and there's no reason to think that being gone would have impacted his score, but I think removing any possible stressors is important. As a former teacher, I can tell you that having a student out the whole week before the first time they took the ISTEP would have given me some stress as well. I wouldn't have told a parent not to do it, but I would have encouraged them to think about it seriously. Also, I agree that after being on vacation for a week the child might need some "recovery" time. I know as an adult, I always feel like I need a vacation from our vacation! Jumping right into testing after vacation might be tough on the child.

And BTW, I've found that preparation for testing in Indiana is not nearly as time consuming as it is in states like Texas- and that's a good thing!

 

[readytogotodisney]

Honestly, have you been in the school during the week prior to ISTEP? They do so much review it is amazing! My junior high son had no homework BUT everyday they were reviewing for ISTEP. I was subbing the entire week prior to ISTEP due to a death in a teacher's family. This was 4th grade. Each day we reviewed most of the day---these are actual sample problems for math, they do writing prompts so they learn how to answer the questions correctly. IMHO asking a 3rd grader how much they reviewed isn't going to be much help. There is a post by a teacher a few above this stressing how much they review for the tests. Especially for a third grader who has never taken a test.

Yes, I have actually been in the school prior to testing and honestly, this test is all about the teachers and how they teach. To quote an article that I recently read "ISTEP is how Indiana public schools weigh success in teaching methods, detect problem schools, and determine just how well certain districts stack up against one another."

If this were not this case, you would not need to cram a year's worth of academic learning into one week prior to testing IF the teaching methods we worthwhile. The student should be able to answer the questions correctly if they had been taught successfully throughout the school year, without coaching from the teacher the week prior.

And I do think that my niece would be a person that would be able to answer how much time they spent on review, seeing how she just has finished taking the ISTEP and went through school the week prior to testing. Furthermore, the time your 10th grader spent preparing for the ISTEP is completely different then a 3rd grader considering that he would need to pass this test in order to graduate.

But this is not a debate on the validity of standardized testing so I will stop there.

 

[dhardawa]

I never realized how much preparation there was for ISTEP as a parent. This could explain why every. single. time. my daughter has had testing she has been out at least a day with anxiety, nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting. The kids are put under such pressure to perform from the school system that it makes some of them sick.

 

[DCbride]

Not from Indiana but like almost every state we test each year too. While the test results do reflect on a school or district as a whole, check to see if the scores are also not used for individual identification- basic skills/gifted program, etc. We do use them in my district to help identify at risk and gifted (although in both cases it is not the only, even the primary identification, just a piece of the puzzle)

And I am not even positive that we do any type of test prep exactly the week before- as the pp said, the teachers spend all year talking about the terms used and create their subject matter tests in a similar format so the kids are used to the format.

 

[WL Fan]

Thanks for everyone's answers and suggestions. I'm sad that they probably won't be able to come with us because the schools place so much emphasis on the tests that really primarily benefit their own pocketbooks, not so much the individual educational needs of the kids. It's also a shame that the schools have so much power over what families feel like they can do with their own kids.

Like I said (somewhere, maybe it was just to myself!), I wouldn't have a problem taking my own third grader out of school, but everyone has to make that decision themselves.

 

[scrapquitler]

To be blunt, there is nothing about ISTEP tests that is particularly beneficial to your child. The test isn't about your child. It's about the school. The school will discourage absences, because they are trying to game the test results to make themselves look as good as possible (and I don't blame the schools for this - I blame the silly obsession with standardized testing. The schools are stuck with the testing regime, they didn't ask for it).

This is what I always told my daughter when she was in elementary school enduring the CMT (CT Master Tests)...my mommy friends were telling their children that if they rated in proficient or mastery they'd buy them a reward or whatever. Instead, I explained to my DD that she should do as well as possible on the tests because I always expect her best effort, but that the test is NOT designed to evaluate HER, the test was meant to evaluate the school's curriculum, teaching methods and teachers. Because she is a good concientious student, she wanted to do well on it, but she didn't feel the pressure that so many other children felt because she knew that she wasn't being graded herself, it was an overall thing. And she always scored very high.

For a third grader who has never taken these tests before, I'd probably not schedule a vacation for the week prior to the testing. A child who has taken the tests in the past and was familiar with the format, maybe not so much depending on the child.

 

[andymattmom]

Thanks for everyone's answers and suggestions. I'm sad that they probably won't be able to come with us because the schools place so much emphasis on the tests that really primarily benefit their own pocketbooks, not so much the individual educational needs of the kids. It's also a shame that the schools have so much power over what families feel like they can do with their own kids.

Like I said (somewhere, maybe it was just to myself!), I wouldn't have a problem taking my own third grader out of school, but everyone has to make that decision themselves.

This statement hit me the wrong way. Do you not realize all the budget cuts our wonderful governor Mitch Daniels has made to the school system. The schools are not placing emphasis on these tests for their own pocketbooks. It is placed on these tests because teachers are going to be held accountable for their class test scores. Budgets are being slashed all the time for schools, sports programs cut, no more field trips, art, music, ,p.e. cut because our governor would rather spend money elsewhere. Near where I live there is a bypass going around a bypass....cost millions AND IT SAVES DRIVERS LESS THAN 5 minutes. Our kids are hurting and because the schools have less and less money so yes, these tests are important.

Our kids need that money for their education. The teachers have been at the statehouse protesting...democrats did their 5 week walkout. That is a whole other issue...but education cuts are being made. Our teachers spend so much out of pocket money on their class, are under paid and over worked. I am not directing this at you but to every parent...I think every parent should spend a day in the school system where their child goes. See how much work teachers have, how much they take home, how hard it is when there are 2-3 disruptive kids who take time away from learning, all that they are expected to teach. How many parents complain when that supply list comes out in the fall asking for kleenex and hand sanitizer---if people don't send in teacher buys out of pocket. I can't tell you how many kids I see get up to get a kleenex..touch their non-runny nose and sit down after throwing out tissue. There are parents who don't send in supplies...like the tissue boxes we are asked for. Then January-February roll around and there are no boxes left. Teachers have to beg beg beg for more tissues from parents or buy for themselves. I can tell you our school is using NASTY NASTY scotch tape. Might not seem like a biggie but when you try and tape stuff it takes twice as much. Even at middle and high school level we are asked to send in tissues---- I send mine in each year. No, the supply lists are fun but if we all plan and shop the sales we might even be able to pick up a few things for the teachers to help. Instead of the candle or mug or 'teacher' item at end of year, Xmas, etc. get them a giftcard to a store where they can buy school stuff. It would be much more appreciated...no matter how small. I can tell you as a sub I see all the mugs in the back of the closets--yes they like but you can only get so many.Teachers jobs are being cut because there is no money to pay ....classes are getting larger, aides are being cut, etc. The school is concerned about tests so they get what little money they do. That is their concern.

Sorry but that hit me the wrong way. I apologize and am not ranting at you...just get tired of seeing all the cuts being made, stupid spending by government (seriously hope we do see the democrats pay their huge fine--hope they don't get re-elected AND I VOTE DEMOCRAT!!).

Anyway--go when is best for you---I say this cause I pulled my kids out twice...once in 1st and 3rd grade and second when 5th and 7th grade. Just prepare your daughter for test if you do go. Ask for materials if the do review and let teacher know ASAP. Ask for any homework ahead of time and have completed when return. That is what we did and boys were fine.

Think we all need to take the time and appreciate our teachers....

 

[robinsegg]

Hi!
I homeschool my kids in a state where testing is not currently mandatory, but I may be able to help a bit.
We tested our dd for the 1st time last year for 4th grade. Since we don't utilize tests in any of our schooling, I did get practice tests online so she would have an idea of what it would look like and how to take such a test. However, I was very casual about it, explaining that it was a way for me to find out how I'm doing as her teacher and it was not a test of how good a student she was. I used these methods maybe a total of a couple of hours over 2 weeks, just so she would know what to do with a test. She tested just fine, having a rather high average score with some very high and a couple of things our curriculum was behind by a few months.

The scores were useful to me, so I could know if I was an effective teacher and what subjects I needed to adjust for her. If I were in such a positiion, I would see if we could get a previous years' test to practice on the way there and back, but go on the vacation.

 

[taitai]

Thanks for everyone's answers and suggestions. I'm sad that they probably won't be able to come with us because the schools place so much emphasis on the tests that really primarily benefit their own pocketbooks, not so much the individual educational needs of the kids. It's also a shame that the schools have so much power over what families feel like they can do with their own kids.

Like I said (somewhere, maybe it was just to myself!), I wouldn't have a problem taking my own third grader out of school, but everyone has to make that decision themselves.

What do you think the schools do with the money they get thru these tests? Go to Vegas? They use it to fund the education of the students. As a member of the school community, it is your role to help the school in any way possible so they can access every resource they can to educate your child. I think the parents who participate should be commended for doing what they can to help the school. It isn't the best way to fund but until a different one is initiated, you gotta play within the rules.

 

[MSSANDRA]

Here is what I recommend. Get the facts. Call the school system office. Ask specific questions about how they use the results of these particular test. Ask how the score of a child directly effects that child.Does it help with placement of classes? Promotion to the next grade? Ask how the overall scores of the school effect the school. Funding? Grants? After you have these answers, only you can decide (well your sister) what is and what is not worth planning a vacation around.

Remember however, these test address a WIDE range of children and if your child is a very good student, chances are they will do just fine without intensive review. I might try to get home from the trip a little earlier that night before the test, but I would not postpone my trip for the week before the test!
I would not plan a trip the week of the testing, but if the week was an extended family vacation, set in stone...we would go.

 

[daaasmith]

You may have already made a decision, as I am a late responder to this post; but just thought I would add a little more. I took my daughter out of school during her 3rd grade ISTEP test. The school is alotted a 2 week period for testing so they can make up for absences, etc. when the testing is actually only about 4 days. I addressed this with the principal as we already had our trip scheduled when I realized the testing dates. They had no problem working with her before we left, and then her taking the tests after our return during the "make up period" alotted. Granted she is a good student and did not need a lot of additional prep, but it all worked out . I hope it all works/ed out for you also.