Advice needed - teenage son

[lovemygoofy]

I have some completely different questions.

Is this new behavior? Did your son wake up one day and become a hellion? Was this something that has been gradually getting worse? Did he get new friends? Has he been doing other stupid things but now getting caught?

I'm confused if he just started all these actions or his actions have been getting worse and you are at the reap and sow part of letting things go by?

Why did you bother to get his truck of impound? Does he have a bank account? He wouldn't have a bank account card or access to any money. I would carry his drivers' license in my wallet and get him a generic id card.

You should not be on the hook for the damage your kid did to your other son's car. Why should you pay for something he did? Make him own his actions. Quit letting him get by so easy! Doing everything for him now, will not do him any favors as an adult. If he screws up, make him take responsibility. He knows what is right and wrong.

 

[mousefanmichelle]

Everyday that his truck sat in impound was costing money - and it was better to get it out while the fee was somewhat reasonable vs. letting it sit there til we couldn't afford to pay it. He can't drive it - we have taken it away from our house to sell, plate is off of it, insurance is off of it. No driving it.

We have tried counseling - as a family several times. He never wanted to be there. I think he probably could benefit from some more. I just have to get him there.

I do not want to enable him - I don't want him to end up a loser and not able to hold a job, a drunk, a druggie or anything else. I want him to be a productive member of society and not in and out of jail.

We've had a couple heart to hearts this past week and I thought I might have made some impact. Guess not. He is impulsive and is making bad decisions. I don't know that he stole the rims, I have a suspicision. Don't know for a fact though. I hope not. I want to be wrong. I will never really know.

If he gets into trouble with the police again, he is going to juvie. That may or may not be the best thing for him. He could come out worse than when he went in. Just like adults who are jailed - they don't all rehabilitate.

I'm at a loss.

 

[usnuzuloose]

I need some ideas on how to help my out of control 16yr old son. I am not sure counseling will do anything since he is becoming a master minipulator.

Here are some details of whats been going on -
He lies. Lies all the time even when we catch him he still lies. I have told him that there is no point in it since we already know the truth and yet...he lies. He has been caught with beer in his backpack. He skips college (enrolled in our middle college program). He was caught stealing a manhole cover and last week we went to court over it. His hand was slapped and that was it besides the fines we had to pay. He can't pay them since he doesn't have a job. We took the truck away from him that he bought with his money becuz he was caught racing it. We made him put it up for sale.

He is home every day from school at noon. We work an hour away and can't babysit him to keep him home while we are away. He leaves. He is not supposed to. We took all the keys out of our 3 dirtbikes so he can't ride them and today he went to take his sisters little 50cc dirtbike and go over a friends. My oldest son (18) took the key away and my 16yr old kicked and dented his older brothers car. My oldest son wanted me to call the cops on his little brother bcuz he is sick of him. I didn't because it's going to cost me, not my 16yr old, financially speaking. I can't afford that. I just paid to get his truck out of impound, court fee and lawyer fee.

I think my dh is ready to kick him out or choke him out. Not sure which. I don't know what to do anymore.

Advice from those that have BTDT?

When did all these issues start? They have to been in the works for a while. They did not just start. I am not trying to be rude. What kind of kids his he hanging out with. Bailing him out of anything will not do anything for him. It really does not hold him accountable. If it were me, I would be explaining to the judge that I don't have the money to pay any fines he created and that the judge needs to set something in motion for him to make restitution. It is not easy. My ex husband would always bail my son out trying to be his friend and I can't begin to tell you the heart ache I have been through. I wasn't even allowed to set boundaries with him. But it does sound like you and your husband are working together. But I would let your son face the consequences. Your certainly are in my prayers. Let us know how things are going.

 

[Christine]

Everyday that his truck sat in impound was costing money - and it was better to get it out while the fee was somewhat reasonable vs. letting it sit there til we couldn't afford to pay it. He can't drive it - we have taken it away from our house to sell, plate is off of it, insurance is off of it. No driving it.

We have tried counseling - as a family several times. He never wanted to be there. I think he probably could benefit from some more. I just have to get him there.

I do not want to enable him - I don't want him to end up a loser and not able to hold a job, a drunk, a druggie or anything else. I want him to be a productive member of society and not in and out of jail.

We've had a couple heart to hearts this past week and I thought I might have made some impact. Guess not. He is impulsive and is making bad decisions. I don't know that he stole the rims, I have a suspicision. Don't know for a fact though. I hope not. I want to be wrong. I will never really know.

If he gets into trouble with the police again, he is going to juvie. That may or may not be the best thing for him. He could come out worse than when he went in. Just like adults who are jailed - they don't all rehabilitate.

I'm at a loss.

I just want to say I'm sorry for you. I can really feel your pain. It's so hard and sometimes it is truly "just the kid."

You have had counseling before. Has there every been any assessment of his mental status: bipolar, undiagnosed ADHD (not treated, many ADHD kids end up behavining as your son is now). I'm not trying to say that every kid who acts up has a disorder, that's just not true, but it's best to look for all that before you pull out the big guns.

The disciplined program I referred to in my first post was the military school. We seem to have a ton of them in this area where I live, but maybe not so much where you are. Do you have any there? Could you afford to pay for that? That puts him in a controlled environment until he's 18. They can also work on discipline and help him with why he does what he does.

 

[disneydee6]

I don't have advice to offer, but to you! Sorry your family is going through a rough time. About a year ago, I posted about a friend who was completely manipulating and lying to friends and family, and all because of a bad drug habit. The lies, and lying while caught in a lie, is beyond frustrating to the people who KNOW they are lying. You know your son, and know whether or not drugs are involved.

While he is young, he is being enabled by you when he shouldn't be. When he got slapped with a fine, he should be responsible for the costs. Your other son SHOULD have called the cops. He won't learn if you don't let them consequences happen. Your instincts are to protect him, but you are also protecting his bad behaviors. It's not easy watching someone you love make bad life decisions, and I wish you all the best!

 

[Tiger926]

Everyday that his truck sat in impound was costing money - and it was better to get it out while the fee was somewhat reasonable vs. letting it sit there til we couldn't afford to pay it. He can't drive it - we have taken it away from our house to sell, plate is off of it, insurance is off of it. No driving it.

We have tried counseling - as a family several times. He never wanted to be there. I think he probably could benefit from some more. I just have to get him there.

I do not want to enable him - I don't want him to end up a loser and not able to hold a job, a drunk, a druggie or anything else. I want him to be a productive member of society and not in and out of jail.

We've had a couple heart to hearts this past week and I thought I might have made some impact. Guess not. He is impulsive and is making bad decisions. I don't know that he stole the rims, I have a suspicision. Don't know for a fact though. I hope not. I want to be wrong. I will never really know.

If he gets into trouble with the police again, he is going to juvie. That may or may not be the best thing for him. He could come out worse than when he went in. Just like adults who are jailed - they don't all rehabilitate.

I'm at a loss.

So here are my questions as someone with expertise in this area (some have been asked, but you haven't answered yet):

1. When did these problems start?

2. Any mental, emotional or behaviour issues from the past that you didn't mention? eg. ADHD, bipolar, personality issues, depression, ODD

3. Could he be abusing drugs or alcohol? Self medicating?

4. Why is he in a high school/combination college program? What are his grades like? How does he handle school?

5. Why do you keep bailing him out? THIS IS KEY He needs to spend some time in jail, picking up garbage in city parks, handing out food at mission, etc.

6. Why hasn't he been sent to juvenile detention already? Who is paying his legal fees?

7. When did you go to counselling? How old was he? Individual or just family?

I need more information in this situation. If I were sitting down to counsel a student, these are important pieces of the puzzle that I would need answered before we could go further.

On that note, you as his mom are enabling his bad behaviour as well. Glad to hear his car is being sold, as that is the least that should be done. He also needs to be personally accountable for much more than he is. Your protection of him is teaching him that he can manipulate you to cover his problems. His motivation is that you keep bailing him out...so he will continue down this path. Especially if he is abusing drugs or alcohol (and I suspect he is).

He is in protective mode...cover his butt at all costs, but if you don't take action now, it may cost you your family, house (I've had parents go into debt to protect their lying kids), etc.

Good luck, OP. Your son is definitely in trouble, and at-risk for a non-productive future, as his mistakes now, could cost him not only in the short term, but the long term as well.

Tiger

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

What are your plans for him for the summer when he has no school? You can't expect your other 2 kids to watch him. It's not their responsibility. Plus, given that he hit his other brother's car when he didnt get to drive it or whatever, it sounds like he is approaching the point of being a physical danger.

 

[wdwmom0f3]

No advice, but Being a parent is hard! Who knew that our tiny cute infants would grow up to talk back and be crazy teens?

Amen!! We love them with all of our heart and they can break our hearts faster than anything.

I agree that it's time to get him some help outside of your home. I would look into a military school that will also offer counseling for him while he is there.

Second, I would take a close look at his friends. Chances are since he is not involved in school sports or holding down a job, he is bored and looking for things to do, and that could be hanging out with the wrong friends who drink and do drugs. Not always, of course, but I have seen this way to many times be true.

Third, if you choose to let him stay, he would be required to get a job somewhere and pay you back for all of your expense a little at a time.

I wish you the best. Parenting is the hardest job I have ever had!

 

[Minnesota!]

Your son sounds just like my brother. He didn't "wake up" until he became a dad in his early 20's. Lying liar that lies. Thieving, sneaking, underhanded, always in trouble. Would never own up to anything, no matter how busted he was.

He went thru the juvenile detentions like crazy - got his 8th grade education and his GED in one. Then he graduated to the prison system.

My parents tried everything. Honestly, the only thing that, looking back, would have worked, was sending him away - military or something.

He is now 31 and while he is still a punk - he is pretty helpless since my parents and the system did "EVERYTHING" for him - he is a good dad, stable job and can function without the drugs, gangs, thieving, and sketchiness that once ruled all our lives.

My advice - change things QUICK! At 18 it will be out of your hands. Honestly, going thru what I did with my brother - it was hell for my family. I would never, ever let my child ruin my family. It would be military school all the way. Like, tomorrow.

I would get the information, show it to him, and tell him he has 2 weeks to clean up his act or it's sayonara. Harsh? Yes. Needed? Oh yeah.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Lots of my at-risk teens in my alternative high school are like your son. I deal with hundreds of him each day. So here are my questions as someone with expertise in this area (some have been asked, but you haven't answered yet):

1. When did these problems start?

2. Any mental, emotional or behaviour issues from the past that you didn't mention? eg. ADHD, bipolar, personality issues, depression, ODD

3. Could he be abusing drugs or alcohol? Self medicating?

4. Why is he in a high school/combination college program? What are his grades like? How does he handle school?

5. Why do you keep bailing him out? THIS IS KEY

6. Why hasn't he been sent to juvenile detention already? Who is paying his legal fees?

7. When did you go to counselling? How old was he? Individual or just family?

I need more information in this situation. If I were sitting down to counsel a student, these are important pieces of the puzzle that I would need answered before we could go further.

On that note, you as his mom are enabling his bad behaviour as well. Glad to hear his car is being sold, as that is the least that should be done. He also needs to be personally accountable for much more than he is. Your protection of him is teaching him that he can manipulate you to cover his problems. His motivation is that you keep bailing him out...so he will continue down this path. Especially if he is abusing drugs or alcohol (and I suspect he is).

He is in protective mode...cover his butt at all costs, but if you don't take action now, it may cost you your family, house (I've had parents go into debt to protect their lying kids), etc.

Good luck, OP. Your son is definitely in trouble, and at-risk for a non-productive future, as his mistakes now, could cost him not only in the short term, but the long term as well.

Tiger

These are all excellent questions that need to be addressed.


As far as counseling--even if he will not go, the rest of you should be in family counseling. Your other kids deserve the help in dealing with the stress he is causing in your life--and the counselor may be able to give you some parenting advice as they learn more and more that might work better than what you re doing now. (I also agree with the PP who said that if your son will see a therapist, a good one who works with teens will know full well when they are being manipulative).

I, personally, feel that your older son and younger daughter need to be much more protected than they currently are. Your son had every right to call the police and he should have been allowed to do so. I would say that if you would call the police if someone else did it, your brother gets no special consideration and you call when he does it too. Honestly, and I know you do not mean to do this, but it sounds like right now your other kids are paying the price for you bailing out your son.

Personally, I think you should have left his truck the 20 days and let the police sell it (per MI abandoned vehicle laws) and handed over fines for penalties in the meantime to your son.

It is too late on the truck--but in the future, whatever trouble he causes himself, let him deal with it. Don't get angry, jut shrug and say "oh, that's rough. I hope you can manage" and let HIM manage. If he has a court hearing and you feel he will get a "slap on the wrist" contact the court ahead of time to let them know of his past and ask them NOT to take this lightly. Tell them you hope he can see real consequences while he is still under age and hopefully it will have an effect. Etc.

Also, if it is not too late to enroll him and you or your husband cannot take the summer off to e home with him, have you looked into Outward Bound type summer camps? Something aimed at troubled teens? He may get a lot out of it and you and your other children will have a much needed break from the stress he creates. and while he is gone you can go to therapy and learn parenting skills.

 

[mousefanmichelle]

Ok to answer some of your questions:

Lots of my at-risk teens in my alternative high school are like your son. I deal with hundreds of him each day. So here are my questions as someone with expertise in this area (some have been asked, but you haven't answered yet):

1. When did these problems start? They started when he got his drivers license this past fall when school started.

2. Any mental, emotional or behaviour issues from the past that you didn't mention? eg. ADHD, bipolar, personality issues, depression, ODD - Nothing ever diagnosed.

3. Could he be abusing drugs or alcohol? Self medicating? While he is at home no. I can't speak to when he is at school.

4. Why is he in a high school/combination college program? What are his grades like? How does he handle school? He is a decent student, although this year he has tanked grade wise.

5. Why do you keep bailing him out? THIS IS KEY He needs to spend some time in jail, picking up garbage in city parks, handing out food at mission, etc. - It wasn't an option for him to go to juvie or get community service. The judge said that he gets a 1x ticket on the good bus. If he does anything in the next 6 months then his punishment will be stiffer.

6. Why hasn't he been sent to juvenile detention already? Who is paying his legal fees? Because that wasn't an option by the judge. He legal fee will be paid back to us once his truck is sold.

7. When did you go to counselling? How old was he? Individual or just family? - It was family counseling and I have had him see the therapist 1x alone.

I need more information in this situation. If I were sitting down to counsel a student, these are important pieces of the puzzle that I would need answered before we could go further.

On that note, you as his mom are enabling his bad behaviour as well. Glad to hear his car is being sold, as that is the least that should be done. He also needs to be personally accountable for much more than he is. Your protection of him is teaching him that he can manipulate you to cover his problems. His motivation is that you keep bailing him out...so he will continue down this path. Especially if he is abusing drugs or alcohol (and I suspect he is).

He is in protective mode...cover his butt at all costs, but if you don't take action now, it may cost you your family, house (I've had parents go into debt to protect their lying kids), etc.

Good luck, OP. Your son is definitely in trouble, and at-risk for a non-productive future, as his mistakes now, could cost him not only in the short term, but the long term as well.

Tiger

Yes, I have covered his butt to a point, but I am not doing that anymore. Whatever trouble he gets into he will have to pay the consequences for. I am not going to bail him out of jail or pay any fines for him. I wish the judge would've given him community service. I wish he would have done more than slap his hand but I don't control what punishment he dishes out.

My son is grounded and has been since March. He can have a friend over, but he can't go over his friends houses. I think he has learned who his friends are and who are not through this situation. No one comes over except 1 kid I actually like. The other friends he has had are awful and I think they are trouble makers - and they no longer come around anyway.

Summer is going to be difficult. He needs a job or something to be busy with. I agree.

 

[Pigeon]

I'm so sorry. Teenagers can be so infuriating.

I don't have any answers. My dd isn't getting into the kind of trouble your son is in, but she is manipulative and dishonest. Counseling hasn't been helpful at all. In fact, I think she's got her therapist snowed, and she just reinforces dd's placing the blame on us for every bad decision she makes.

I would definitely try to make sure he gets a job over the summer, hopefully something physically demanding to burn off some energy.

 

[Tiger926]

So here are my questions as someone with expertise in this area (some have been asked, but you haven't answered yet):

1. When did these problems start? They started when he got his drivers license this past fall when school started. I would definitely get him some professional medical assistance, as these are pretty extreme behaviours to start out of the blue. Could be drugs or another mental issue at play.

2. Any mental, emotional or behaviour issues from the past that you didn't mention? eg. ADHD, bipolar, personality issues, depression, ODD - Nothing ever diagnosed. See above.

3. Could he be abusing drugs or alcohol? Self medicating? While he is at home no. I can't speak to when he is at school. Chances are, he is probably using drugs/alcohol as that is the hallmark of behaviour troubled kids. But the only way for you to know for sure is to check his room or drug test.

4. Why is he in a high school/combination college program? What are his grades like? How does he handle school? He is a decent student, although this year he has tanked grade wise. Not a surprise at all. Is he supposed to graduate? Will you lose any money for the college courses? Is he manifesting problems at school? We can mandate that kids go to counselling or they aren't allowed back into my school.

5. Why do you keep bailing him out? THIS IS KEY He needs to spend some time in jail, picking up garbage in city parks, handing out food at mission, etc. - It wasn't an option for him to go to juvie or get community service. The judge said that he gets a 1x ticket on the good bus. If he does anything in the next 6 months then his punishment will be stiffer. So you are saying he has only been in front of the judge 1x? If you and your children would have called the police more often, they would be tracking him, and this is crucial in painting a profile of his behaviour.

6. Why hasn't he been sent to juvenile detention already? Who is paying his legal fees? Because that wasn't an option by the judge. He legal fee will be paid back to us once his truck is sold. Good that you will take back the money for the legal fees.

7. When did you go to counselling? How old was he? Individual or just family? - It was family counseling and I have had him see the therapist 1x alone. When was it? Recently or years ago? It is hard to find a therapist that kids can click with, but he doesn't sound ready, so not sure that would work anyway.


Yes, I have covered his butt to a point, but I am not doing that anymore. Whatever trouble he gets into he will have to pay the consequences for. I am not going to bail him out of jail or pay any fines for him. I wish the judge would've given him community service. I wish he would have done more than slap his hand but I don't control what punishment he dishes out.

My son is grounded and has been since March. He can have a friend over, but he can't go over his friends houses. I think he has learned who his friends are and who are not through this situation. No one comes over except 1 kid I actually like. The other friends he has had are awful and I think they are trouble makers - and they no longer come around anyway.

Summer is going to be difficult. He needs a job or something to be busy with. I agree.

 

[AntePrincess]

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

I have not personally BTDT, but our extended family definitely has. One cousin (girl) started acting out at 16, it was never really dealt with and we don't expect her to live to see her 30s at this point. There have already been near misses. On the other side of the family three cousins (all boys) also began to act out at about the same age as your son, and they were all read the riot act. In short, they joined the military. Are they still hellions? Well, they aren't angels, but they are productive members of society and maturing.

In the case of your son, you can't be there 24/7 to police him and he's starting to tank in school. He needs the riot act. In your shoes I would tell him that we were going to give him the benefit of the doubt one more time, expecting him to do his chores, go to school, etc. If he slipped up one more time, as defined clearly by you, I'd withdraw support. No college assistance, transportation, subsidization, co-signing, etc. I'd help him into military school as a last resort (a real military school, not one of these abusive for profit nuthouses you hear about), but that would be it. If you think he might run away or severely act out if given that sort of deal, you might have to skip giving him a second chance.

As to what's going wrong with him, he sounds like a 16yo boy to me. It's not that every 16yo boy I've ever known has acted out until they landed in court, but I can't think of a single one that didn't develop some rough edges around that age. I think it's hormones, they get aggressive (and horny). It seems like boys need a rigid hierarchy to find themselves in and plenty of structure in the day.

 

[canadianjovigirl]

I feel your pain as going thru a lot with my 14 almost 15 year old son. In the last 6-8 months he has started failing classes, skipped class, not completed assignments as he has determined they are not worth the extra effort, gotten zeros on assignments as he choose not to do them as he thought they were dumb, been sent to the office for defiant grand standing to his teachers, smoking pot and cigarettes, stolen from us, lied, detention for smoking on school property and over all bad defiant behavior at home as well.

All we have gotten out of him is that he "dont care". He has been to see the school counsellor but promptly walked out when he found out it was voluntary. He has been on constant grounding (no going out, no phone, no video games, no tv) as he gets off grounding and within 36 hours he has made another bad choice and is grounded again. I am fighting to get him into see a mental health counsellor as again that is voluntary and if they dont want to participate there is not much they can help with. He does go this week dispite his protests, but i'm not confidant he will continue if its voluntary.

He does not qualify for any troubled youth programs near me as he is not into "hard" drugs nor is he in trouble with the law. Its very frustrating trying to stop the downward slide before he gets to that point......

He also quit all sports he used to be involved in as his friends all quit and cant force him to play or practice if he chooses not to. He is very much a follower and sadly his friends are making terrible choices (lots of home drama - parents separating, cancer treatment, etc etc) so he just goes along with what ever they do despite all our talks, all the punishment etc.

It just sucks as a mom feeling like you have failed them and no longer have any trust in them. Hoping this phase is short lived as i'm at the end of my rope as well. I have never seen such an unmotivated lazy teen in my life uggggggg

I have looked into behavior wilderness camps etc and they start at $12,000 for a 31 day program!!!

 

[ILUVALASKA]

Have you looked into one of those outdoor programs where they mix the out-of-doors with some tough love?

 

[AntePrincess]

Let me revise what I said about military schools (since I did a little more homework on it...). Real military schools don't want kids on the verge of juvie, so the options available would be expensive private 'boot camp' schools, many of which fall into that abusive category that I'm concerned about. You'd have to be very careful in selecting one so that you'd be helping him rather than traumatizing him.

Perhaps you could give him more of an ultimatum: shape up and enroll in high school ROTC (a military program) or similar program such as a fire fighter cadet program or junior EMS, AND participate in good standing, or lose out on things that really matter to him. The trick is identifying something he'd really care about that you have some say in. Pulling financial support for college, kicking him out at 18 (which would probably push him into the military if he isn't crazy and willing to go on the street), or whatever else comes to mind are options. You'll have to be willing to push the envelop and, honestly, you have to TRUST him to catch himself if he is pushed out of the nest one way or the other.

 

[TLuvsD]

Several other posters have good ideas about behavior, therapy, call the police when needed. I'd just add, call the high school and ask about summer programs. Check the internet for summer online classes. It will give him something to do. Does he expect to go to college? If so, sit down and show him in writing, how his grades impact college admissions. (This was HUGE for my neighbor.) In writing, spreadsheet or word document.

Good luck! It sounds like you are in a tough place.

 

[Aliceacc]

Oh yea, we also think, just based on what's been going on with him the he or his friends have stole some alum. tire rims (8) of them from our yard for scrap. We can't prove it but as soon as my dh noticed they were gone and made mention of it my son disappeared into his room and became very moody and upset.....

Here's your sign I guess...

Is there any way possible for you and/or your husband to find a way to be home when school is over? Go down to part time, switch shifts, change jobs?

He needs to be supervised, and that's not going to happen if you're an hour away. Leaving things until school begins in the fall leaves him an awful lot of time to get into trouble.

What are the plans for summer vacation? Leaving him on his own, or under his brother's care, sound like a recipe for disaster. Is there any way you and your husband can work your vacation time so someone is home all summer?

 

[spima3]

So sorry to hear of your troubles. We are having issues w/ our 13 yr old daughter. She is adopted and it has never been easy w/ her, so I knew we were going to have a hard time in her teens.

EVERY single one of my friends has their daughters in couseling. Around here, it seems the middle school girls are into cutting. I sit in the couselors office and see one after another coming in for therapy. Doesn't seem to be working for anybody. My friend's DD15 just ran away for the second time THIS week. Her bad behaviors have escalted over the past 2 years she has been seeing a counselor. Our DD loves to go to the couselor and she is "really opening up", but the behaviors don't change, so big whoop.

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't see "professional" counseling being any help to these kids either. I wish we could find a answer to stop this before it gets worse. I see being a grandmother in the very near future.

I hope you can get through to your son, good luck!