Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[bcla]

It was a real weapon being treated as a prop. It was a senseless tragedy that was preventable. While I do believe others share in the blame Baldwin pulled the trigger. It's concerning that there were other incidents on the set prior to this...even a walkout over safety issues. How many ignorant people handled this weapon before it was given to an actor as a harmless "prop"?

I see a lot of people applying standards of firearms safety that would be applied at a shooting range, hunting, or to a firearm just found at a house.

The entertainment industry has a lot of duties that are compartmentalized. You may think that your way is the only way, but there have been far fewer accidental deaths from firearms in the movie industry than just accidental shootings in general. People rely on rigging crews to properly secure stage lights. Concert crews set up temporary stages that have the potential to come down. Heck - sitting in a temporary grandstand seat can be dangerous, but I don't recall ever personally inspecting the seating before sitting down. Hiring a professional to load/check firearms on set has worked quite well over the years, but in the case of the production of Rust, it seems that the professional may have made a ton of mistakes and probably shouldn't have been given that level of responsibility.

There certainly are situations where firearms are simply handed over to people with only basic instruction on their operation. There are the businesses in Las Vegas that advertise the chance to shoot a machine gun. They're not likely giving anyone hours of instruction on how to load, check, and clear the weapons before being allowed to fire them. Heck - I remember an 8 year old allowed to fire a Micro-Uzi, although that ended up very, very badly.

 

[a1tinkfans]

RIP
Sad AVOIDABLE tragedy HAD protocols been followed.
I hope those Responsible are held Accountable.

 

[JimMIA]

Here's an article about previous gunshots on the set of this movie from "cold" guns. Apparently the most recent incident involved two shots fired by Baldwin's stunt double less than a week before this tragic incident.

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-kn...say-there-were-2-accidental-weapon-discharges

 

[dvcgirl67]

Here's an article about previous gunshots on the set of this movie from "cold" guns. Apparently the most recent incident involved two shots fired by Baldwin's stunt double less than a week before this tragic incident.

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-kn...say-there-were-2-accidental-weapon-discharges

I've seen more reporting about the armorer on this shoot....she was young and fairly inexperienced. The daughter of a more established/famous armorer...at least in that world apparently. There's a podcast where she discusses the Rust job being her second job....so, possibly the first link in this chain where things fell apart was a young inexperienced armorer. And it seems like it fell apart in other areas....that a lot of different things had to come together for this to have happened.

 

[JimMIA]

I've seen more reporting about the armorer on this shoot....she was young and fairly inexperienced. The daughter of a more established/famous armorer...at least in that world apparently. There's a podcast where she discusses the Rust job being her second job....so, possibly the first link in this chain where things fell apart was a young inexperienced armorer. And it seems like it fell apart in other areas....that a lot of different things had to come together for this to have happened.

Well, there are a lot of obvious weak points and failures -- and there is plenty of blame to share, and plenty of opportunity for deflections. For example -- in order of importance, IMHO:

1. Baldwin pulled the trigger without checking the gun. There are dozens of things we can say about what happened before he got the gun, but the gun didn't fire by itself.
2. Real bullets on a make-believe set. WHY? What could there possibly be on any movie set that could be shot safely with real bullets? To me, especially considering that they had previous gunfire accidents, no live rounds on the set would be a no brainer -- and if that had been followed, the poor young woman would be alive and well.
3. "Cold Gun." The assistant director apparently never even looked at the gun before announcing it was "cold," whatever that means in their world.
4. The "armorer." Why did she have live rounds, especially after the previous mishaps? Why did she not personally inspect the gun before handing it to the assistant director? The only proper way to hand a revolver to another person is with the cylinder open so they can see the gun is empty. As a professional "armorer," she knew that.
5. Time pressure. Speed kills. Everybody should have been a LOT smarter than they were.

 

[ShayBells]

Before ANYONE even holds a gun (even a prop gun), they should HAVE to take gun safety courses. The hunters, in my state at least, have to go through courses before getting a license. This should be true even in Hollywood. Actors go through all kinds of training for roles. If their character is going to be holding a gun they should go through those classes. JMO

This was an awful accident, and definitely blame all around, whether that blame is accidental or criminal is yet to be decided and won’t be by me. My heart goes out to all involved, but mostly to the family of that poor woman.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I see a lot of people applying standards of firearms safety that would be applied at a shooting range, hunting, or to a firearm just found at a house.

The entertainment industry has a lot of duties that are compartmentalized. You may think that your way is the only way, but there have been far fewer accidental deaths from firearms in the movie industry than just accidental shootings in general. People rely on rigging crews to properly secure stage lights. Concert crews set up temporary stages that have the potential to come down. Heck - sitting in a temporary grandstand seat can be dangerous, but I don't recall ever personally inspecting the seating before sitting down. Hiring a professional to load/check firearms on set has worked quite well over the years, but in the case of the production of Rust, it seems that the professional may have made a ton of mistakes and probably shouldn't have been given that level of responsibility.

There certainly are situations where firearms are simply handed over to people with only basic instruction on their operation. There are the businesses in Las Vegas that advertise the chance to shoot a machine gun. They're not likely giving anyone hours of instruction on how to load, check, and clear the weapons before being allowed to fire them. Heck - I remember an 8 year old allowed to fire a Micro-Uzi, although that ended up very, very badly.

Doesn't mean it wasn't irresponsible. It was a real firearm not a toy.

I've heard the crew experienced with firearms had walked off the set due to safety concerns. This left less capable employees in charge. Anyone know if this is true?

 

[DLgal]

Before ANYONE even holds a gun (even a prop gun), they should HAVE to take gun safety courses.

I agree. Unfortunately our policymakers don't. Practically anyone can legally obtain a gun with absolutely ZERO knowledge or training about guns. You'd think as a society we would be outraged by this, but alas...

 

[JimMIA]

Doesn't mean it wasn't irresponsible. It was a real firearm not a toy.

I've heard the crew experienced with firearms had walked off the set due to safety concerns. This left less capable employees in charge. Anyone know if this is true?

From what I've read, the armorer has been with the production since the start -- as have all of the others involved in this tragic accident: Baldwin, the assistant director, the director, and the woman who was killed.

There were some union workers who left the production over working conditions, safety issues, and pay issues. They were replaced, supposedly by non-union workers, but I haven't seen any explanation of what any of those workers' duties were.

 

[fly girl]

All these people saying Alec should have checked the gun...

Why would you expect any actor to even KNOW how to do this? I certainly wouldn't know how or what to check on a gun if someone handed me one. It's very possible that he literally wouldn't even know what to look for. This is the entire reason why film and tv productions hire armorers.

This whole argument is like saying you should check your car when the mechanic hands it back to you after a service to make sure it's safe. Most of us wouldn't know how to do that. You trust that the mechanic gave you back a safe car. I mean, if the mechanic had accidentally severed a brake line or something and you caused a crash on the way home that killed someone, would it really be your fault if the investigation found the brake line had been severed by the mechanic? Likely you'd be off the hook. Same deal here. This was not the actor's fault at all.

There appeared to be 2 levels of responsibility above him. The armorer and then the assistant director that handed him the gun. I would assume if those 2 people confirmed the gun was safe, there would be no reason for the actor to check also. This appears to have been an accidental discharge of the weapon in any event, during a rehearsal of a scene. He allegedly did not point the camera at the victims and pull the trigger. It seems he pulled the weapon out of the holster and it went off, and the 2 people hit just happened to be in the line of fire, although they were not behind the camera that would have been filming the action. A terrible tragedy all around, but certainly not a criminal or intentional act.

Obviously a full investigation will uncover what actually happened, but this appears to be a case of an armorer who was not fully competent at her job.

I get what you are saying, and to a certain degree I agree with you.

However, I don't think you can compare a simple gun safety class versus years of training and hands on experience with car mechanics.

My hope is that out of the tragedy basic gun training should be given to every actor that is going to handle a gun on set. They should be taught the basics - like checking to see if the gun is in fact empty, and it should always be done when given the gun as a back up check to the prop department handling the gun.

It is basic safety to have back ups in place. Case in point: Flight attendants could kill passengers if a door isn't armed in an emergency -- they wouldn't have a slide to escape. And on arrival they can kill (and sadly have) gate agents, aircraft cleaners, or catering on the outside of the doors if they do not disarm the door properly upon arrival. When you hear, "Flight attendants please prepare your doors for departure/arrival and cross check." The cross check is another flight attendant double checking a door to in fact verify it is armed/disarmed.

Maybe they already have a double check verification on movie sets. I have no idea. But instituting another level for verification by having the actor check beforehand would cost very little in money/time but could save a life.

 

[bcla]

Doesn't mean it wasn't irresponsible. It was a real firearm not a toy.

I've heard the crew experienced with firearms had walked off the set due to safety concerns. This left less capable employees in charge. Anyone know if this is true?

No. The only person responsible for firearms safety was the armorer, and she was still on set and according to most sources she personally prepared the guns on set. Most film crews aren't responsible for the firearms. I did hear that The Crow didn't specifically have an armorer on set, and they did allow the prop crew to prepare the firearms.

Sure there are best practices. But the problem here was far more basic. The expert here seems to have made mistakes that even someone like me wouldn't have made. Having live ammo on the set was inexcusable.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

In terms of Alec Baldwin being responsible for checking the weapon, that's not his responsibility, nor would it be safe. Actors are trained to trust the armorer, who is supposed to be a firearms expert. If all protocols are followed, the gun should be safe for use. The last thing you want is for an actor to open the chamber or otherwise manipulate a gun on a crowded film set. The safety procedures broke down somewhere before Baldwin was handed the gun. It's a heart-breaking situation for everyone involved.

 

[TLSnell1981]

No. The only person responsible for firearms safety was the armorer, and she was still on set and according to most sources she personally prepared the guns on set. Most film crews aren't responsible for the firearms. I did hear that The Crow didn't specifically have an armorer on set, and they did allow the prop crew to prepare the firearms.

Sure there are best practices. But the problem here was far more basic. The expert here seems to have made mistakes that even someone like me wouldn't have made. Having live ammo on the set was inexcusable.

We disagree regarding responsibility. Hopefully this tragic needless death will bring much needed change to current practices.

Ironically there is a video of Jensen Ackles discussing firearms training on the set of "Rust." He was given a brief tutorial regarding gun safety by the armorer.

 

[LYSE]

In terms of Alec Baldwin being responsible for checking the weapon, that's not his responsibility, nor would it be safe. Actors are trained to trust the armorer, who is supposed to be a firearms expert. If all protocols are followed, the gun should be safe for use. The last thing you want is for an actor to open the chamber or otherwise manipulate a gun on a crowded film set. The safety procedures broke down somewhere before Baldwin was handed the gun. It's a heart-breaking situation for everyone involved.

I can imagine nothing more dangerous than manipulating the trigger of a firearm with the assumption that it is unloaded and the only result will be a click.

What harm can possibly come from from clearing a firearm that should already be clear? A pinched finger is about all I can imagine. If it turns out not to be clear then the aftermath is much safer than firing it at a person, ranging from a live round falling to the ground to a negligent discharge in a safe direction (again vs towards people)

 

[bcla]

I get what you are saying, and to a certain degree I agree with you.

However, I don't think you can compare a simple gun safety class versus years of training and hands on experience with car mechanics.

My hope is that out of the tragedy basic gun training should be given to every actor that is going to handle a gun on set. They should be taught the basics - like checking to see if the gun is in fact empty, and it should always be done when given the gun as a back up check to the prop department handling the gun.

It is basic safety to have back ups in place. Case in point: Flight attendants could kill passengers if a door isn't armed in an emergency -- they wouldn't have a slide to escape. And on arrival they can kill (and sadly have) gate agents, aircraft cleaners, or catering on the outside of the doors if they do not disarm the door properly upon arrival. When you hear, "Flight attendants please prepare your doors for departure/arrival and cross check." The cross check is another flight attendant double checking a door to in fact verify it is armed/disarmed.

Maybe they already have a double check verification on movie sets. I have no idea. But instituting another level for verification by having the actor check beforehand would cost very little in money/time but could save a life.

Well - there's usually stuff like checklists for aircraft before flying. Even pilots who supposedly have done this many times before will go over a written checklist with pilot and co-pilot verifying everything. And that's really important in case of emergencies. I could imagine a written set of procedures that should be checked, especially since some people have bad days and putting it down in writing means no forgetting a step.

The standard procedure is supposed to be that everyone who handles a firearm should be trained on how it works, shooting it at a range, and maybe even learning how to disassemble and reassemble the firearm. Of course that takes time and maybe they don't do that. This was a relatively low budget movie where they might have been hoping that a big name star would give it a boost. But in big budget movies where there's a long production time, they might actually have several firearms experts who do things like extensively train the actors.

What happened here was simply inexcusable. There weren't supposed to be live firing blanks, which happened in a previous situation with the stunt double. There wasn't supposed to be blanks (or especially live rounds with bullet) when Baldwin was handed the firearm. This was a monumental screw up.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I can imagine nothing more dangerous than manipulating the trigger of a firearm with the assumption that it is unloaded and the only result will be a click.

What harm can possibly come from from clearing a firearm that should already be clear? A pinched finger is about all I can imagine. If it turns out not to be clear then the aftermath is much safer than firing it at a person, ranging from a live round falling to the ground to a negligent discharge in a safe direction (again vs towards people)

That's the point, though. It should already have been cleared by an expert. The actor should be handed the gun by the armorer immediately before the scene is to be rehearsed or shot. It should be in safe, working condition. Perhaps procedures will change following this incident, but actors thus far have been trained to trust the armorer.

 

[JimMIA]

That's the point, though. It should already have been cleared by an expert. The actor should be handed the gun by the armorer immediately before the scene is to be rehearsed or shot. It should be in safe, working condition. Perhaps procedures will change following this incident, but actors thus far have been trained to trust the armorer.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. As @bcla said above, there were failures all over the place here.

In fact, every single person who touched that gun failed, and they cost a young woman her life.

I don't think anyone is going to jail, but Alec Baldwin, the assistant director, and the "armorer" will have to live with this totally unnecessary, completely preventable death they caused for the rest of their lives.

 

[bcla]

That's the point, though. It should already have been cleared by an expert. The actor should be handed the gun by the armorer immediately before the scene is to be rehearsed or shot. It should be in safe, working condition. Perhaps procedures will change following this incident, but actors thus far have been trained to trust the armorer.

I certainly agree that had the armorer properly checked the guns, there really would have been no danger, even if the actor screws up. For this case there wasn't supposed to blanks and certainly not live target ammo in the gun.

I found a few things relating to what profestional filming crews call it. There's been some criticism that people are calling them "prop guns" like they're made of rubber or plastic, but that's certainly what the industry called them.

https://gov.texas.gov/film/page/prop-weapons​

The use of firing weapons and firearms are strictly controlled by state and federal law and require the appropriate permits for any weapons and firearms on set. Productions are required to have medics and safety policies in place before the use of prop weapons on set and must provide proof of insurance. Expert certified weapons handlers should be hired when any firing weapon is being used during production.​

​

In addition, productions should adhere to SAG and other union rules regarding the use of firearms on set with respect to training, safety requirements, and additional compensation for crew and cast members handling firing weapons. Individual unions have safety hotlines and policies in place and members are encouraged to report safety concerns.​

 

[Pea-n-Me]

There is a lot of info in this article that address some of the questions being asked. As with the Gabby Petito information, some of it may change later on, so take it with a grain of salt, but this is what’s being reported now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...led-Halyna-Hutchins-used-target-practice.html

”The gun that killed the cinematographer on the set of Alec Baldwin's Rust had been used for target practice by crew members, sources linked to the western film's production said.

Multiple sources connected to the set of Rust told TMZ that the same Colt pistol that went off in Alec Baldwin's hands, killing Halyna Hutchins and injuring director Joel Souza, had been used recreationally by crew members.

The sources claim that some crew members would go off for target practice using real bullets, and some believe a live round from those practice sessions found its way onto the set.

Another source told TMZ that live ammo and blanks were being stored in the same area on set, offering another possible explanation as to how a bullet was fired from Baldwin's Colt.

A search warrant released Friday said that Rust armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, 24, had laid out three prop guns on a cart outside the filming location, and first assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the Colt from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds.

'Cold gun!' shouted Halls before handing the gun to Baldwin, using the phrase to signal to cast and crew that the gun was safe to fire for the scene, the warrant said.

Seconds later, filming a scene inside an Old West-style church, Baldwin apparently aimed towards the camera and pulled the trigger, accidentally killing Hutchins as she filmed him, and injuring Souza, who stood behind her.

Two production sources who previously worked with Gutierrez-Reed said this was not the first time she was involved in an incident on a movie set.

The gun that fired the fatal shot was a vintage-style Colt revolver, DailyMail.com has exclusively learned.

After the shooting, the armorer took possession of the gun and a spent casing, which were turned over to police, along with other prop guns and ammunition used on the set.

Baldwin also changed out of the Western costume he was wearing, which was stained with blood, and turned it over to police.

The warrant does not reveal the model or caliber of the prop gun that fired the fatal bullet, but the film is set in the Old West of the 1880s and DailyMail.com has learned it was a Colt.”

The warrant was obtained Friday so that investigators could document the scene at the ranch where the shooting took place.

Unionized workers had walked off the set hours before the fatal shooting, after they complained about long hours, shoddy conditions and another safety incident days earlier involving 'two misfires' of a prop weapon.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Also from the above article, this sidebar:

Why WAS a gun on Alec Baldwin movie set loaded with live ammo? Mystery over events that led to actor killing cinematographer

The deadly chain of events on set that led to Alec Baldwin being handed a gun with live ammunition and accidentally shooting and killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins have become clearer after it emerged last night the actor fired a live round, believing it to be a blank.

Experts yesterday told DailyMail.com safety on set is usually extremely tight with live bullets never used in filming and it remains unclear why a firearm loaded with live ammunition was on the Rust set at all.

Baldwin was handed a gun loaded with live ammunition

First assistant director Dave Halls picked up one of the firearms - a vintage-style Colt revolver laid out by armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed - unaware it was loaded with live bullets.

'Cold gun!' shouted Halls before handing the gun to Baldwin, using the phrase to signal to cast and crew that the gun was safe to fire for the scene, a search warrant released on Friday said.

Baldwin, filming a scene inside an Old West-style church, then fired a live round towards the camera, accidentally killing Hutchins as she filmed him.

Hutchins was airlifted to the hospital but was pronounced dead. Souza was taken to the hospital by ambulance but was released on Thursday evening.

Why was live ammunition used on set in the first place?

Live ammunition is never usually used on film sets and Baldwin's shooting and killing of a cinematographer a 'total mystery', a Hollywood armorer has said.

Mike Tristan, 60, who has provided guns for movie sets for over 30 years, said the injuries sustained by Hutchins should not have been possible.

Tristan, who has worked with Baldwin before, said any professional armorer would have checked the weapon, which he believes was a Western, before handing it to the 63-year-old.

'There should have been blanks in the gun, the on-set armorer's job is to check that before handing the weapon over,' Tristan told Dailymail.com.

'They then make sure that the actor stands on a mark and never points the gun at the crew or cast, you give them an aim to point at and the editing makes it seem like they were pointing at their co-actor.

'That's why everyone in the industry is very confused, how this happened is a total mystery at the moment.'

Union members had walked off set hours earlier over safety concerns

Unionized members walked off set on Wednesday, hours before the tragedy, complaining of safety concerns.
They complained about long hours, shoddy conditions and another safety incident days earlier involving 'two misfires' of a prop weapon.

Deadline cites an unnamed source who said a gun had gone off 'in a cabin' while someone was holding it, days prior to the shooting that killed Hutchins.

'A gun had two misfires in a closed cabin. They just fired loud pops – a person was just holding it in their hands and it went off,' they said, apparently referring to unintentional discharges.

Baldwin's stunt double also accidentally fired two rounds after being told the firearm was 'cold'.

When they turned up to set to clear their things on Thursday, they found they'd been replaced by locals.
It begs the question of who those local workers were, what their training was and to what extent did they check the weapon before it was handed to Baldwin.