Any idea when we can buy WDW annual passes?

[Mike1082]

And like you point out the locals really don’t spend much money as they eat before they get there and often times bring food in or go to their car for food.

Unlike locals we stayed on grounds when we visit. Eat most of our meals on property.

I do think Disney can and does make money off annual passholders, just not the local ones.

You're painting "the locals" with a pretty broad brush there, Mayor. I'm thinking it's not quite fair to assume everyone that lives in FL and takes advantage of the WDW AP's all gather in the parking lot at lunch time to tailgate with a sandwich spread in order to avoid spending a nickel on food inside the parks.

 

[whiteness]

You're painting "the locals" with a pretty broad brush there, Mayor. I'm thinking it's not quite fair to assume everyone that lives in FL and takes advantage of the WDW AP's all gather in the parking lot at lunch time to tailgate with a sandwich spread in order to avoid spending a nickel on food inside the parks.

This^. And not just food and drink, too. From where I'm sitting, I can see a veritable wall of Disney stuff. We'd visit Disneyana or Off the Page, respectively, nearly every visit. I doubt Disney lost money on us.

 

[Loro]

Uh - that was their point. In their letter to me (from DVC's chief compliance officer), AP's were not under the control of DVD/DVC, but the entity that did control them was fully within their rights to terminate the AP program at any time. And consequently, should the AP program be terminated, DVC/DVD was fully within their rights to terminate the corresponding discount.

And again (and again, and again, and again), I mention all of this because there appears to be a sizable group of DVC members that believe the AP program (with discount) is 'untouchable' because of potential member pushback, or legal ramifications, or some other nonsense.

Those folks are swimming in the River of Denial...

Ignoring the legalities, getting rid of what is likely the biggest perk of being a blue card member is not the best way to sell DVC or maintain its value. It would be a terrible idea for them. There would be absolutely no reason to buy direct then except for what they're trying to do with restricting new resorts like they did with Riviera, which is having trouble holding its value compared to the other legacy DVC resorts.

Legality-wise, I've argued in the past that a skillful lawyer could paint the picture that could make a class action lawsuit possible. It would be about the way it is stated in the wording of the lawsuit. For example off the top of my head... : While DVC perks can be taken away at any time per the contract, if it were to tank the value enough to get rid of said perk it could lead to a misrepresentation of/to the shareholders of actual value for blue card holders. There could be an argument on violating fiduciary responsibility too if I recall someone else speaking on this at one point a long time ago. Lawsuits can be very creative, and while Disney's lawyers worded things as best they could to avoid lawsuits, they want to prevent bad press as well as the potential suit. If they got rid of the DVC AP entirely I could see something happening. Dunno if it would/could be successful, but pissing off 90% of the people who purchased something from you after you took their money is not a good way to do business for a multitude of reasons.

 

[BTDTGB]

You're painting "the locals" with a pretty broad brush there, Mayor. I'm thinking it's not quite fair to assume everyone that lives in FL and takes advantage of the WDW AP's all gather in the parking lot at lunch time to tailgate with a sandwich spread in order to avoid spending a nickel on food inside the parks.

Of course they don't and I did not intend to imply that all locals pack in food and never eat at the parks. Some do eat at the parks, but being local you the option of eating before and bringing in food while someone from out of state does not. At least not as easily. Being local you go more frequently the unique restaurants are not as unique, so less likely to eat there as opposed to someone that can only go occasionally. The larger part of my comments are that there is no longer a need to fill parks during off peak times with locals since the parks are always busy. Out of state AP's are a commitment to spend dollars at Disney. Food, hotels, longer stays, ect.

 

[mackmack]

The larger part of my comments are that there is no longer a need to fill parks during off peak times with locals since the parks are always busy. Out of state AP's are a commitment to spend dollars at Disney. Food, hotels, longer stays, ect.

I just do not understand how people don't understand this. Does anyone here actually go to the parks on a regular basis or watch vloggers that go? Literally you need to open an app on a phone and within 5 seconds click a button or you are not riding rise of the resistance or web slingers. Tron will be the same. Just stop and think about that, you have 5 seconds on a mobile phone app or you are shut out from those rides. The entire park is becoming overcrowded and the only viable solution is to institute inflationary measures to balance profit/viability/sustainability. You can not have 5,000 people waiting at rope drop on a Tuesday morning. It starts to become a miserable experience if you are waiting in lines that long. Peter Pan was 2 hours last thursday in the blistering sun. They need balance. The only balance tool they have short of a lottery system is raising prices to squeeze out the bloated and unprofitable lower group( AP HOLDERS ). Not only is this a problem now, it is COMPOUNDING year after year. It is literally unsustainable.

 

[jkh36619]

You keep saying this and just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it true. The last time I checked, Credit Suisse (?) analyst and Bob Chapek are not the same person. The Credit Suisse analyst asked a general question about APs in the PARKS. Then Bob Chapek went on and on about how they’re taking the opportunity provided by Covid to rework the Disneyland AP program. But knock yourself out with your declarations of certaintly about what they’re doing with APs everywhere.

Dude is a broken record.

 

[ellbell]

I just do not understand how people don't understand this. Does anyone here actually go to the parks on a regular basis or watch vloggers that go? Literally you need to open an app on a phone and within 5 seconds click a button or you are not riding rise of the resistance or web slingers. Tron will be the same. Just stop and think about that, you have 5 seconds on a mobile phone app or you are shut out from those rides. The entire park is becoming overcrowded and the only viable solution is to institute inflationary measures to balance profit/viability/sustainability. You can not have 5,000 people waiting at rope drop on a Tuesday morning. It starts to become a miserable experience if you are waiting in lines that long. Peter Pan was 2 hours last thursday in the blistering sun. They need balance. The only balance tool they have short of a lottery system is raising prices to squeeze out the bloated and unprofitable lower group( AP HOLDERS ). Not only is this a problem now, it is COMPOUNDING year after year. It is literally unsustainable.

And yet they continue to build resort hotels and sell DVC. Hmmm

 

[mackmack]

And yet they continue to build resort hotels and sell DVC. Hmmm

??? They are building resort hotels because they want to fill them with resort guests and not AP locals who pay next to nothing all year long. Does that not support my argument?

Paycheks manifest destiny is every single person you see in the park goes back to their disney resort at the end of the night and eats at the resorts restaurant, paying Disney for inflated lodging and highly inflated food and drinks. It's not people getting back in their cars and buying a bucket of KFC on the way home.

 

[mrpolo23]

If Disney gets rid of the AP which I’m sure they’re NOT . It will be changed for something new and a lot more expensive.

with a new name .......

People local and far will still go to to Disney .
Look at what they’re doing in Cali

 

[ellbell]

??? They are building resort hotels because they want to fill them with resort guests and not AP locals who pay next to nothing all year long. Does that not support my argument?

Paycheks manifest destiny is every single person you see in the park goes back to their disney resort at the end of the night and eats at the resorts restaurant, paying Disney for inflated lodging and highly inflated food and drinks. It's not people getting back in their cars and buying KFC on the way home.

You keep saying parks are too crowded qnd disney wants to thin the crowd so now your theory doesn't stand up.

 

[Miffy]

??? They are building resort hotels because they want to fill them with resort guests and not AP locals who pay next to nothing all year long. Does that not support my argument?

Paycheks manifest destiny is every single person you see in the park goes back to their disney resort at the end of the night and eats at the resorts restaurant, paying Disney for inflated lodging and highly inflated food and drinks. It's not people getting back in their cars and buying KFC on the way home.

Out-of-state AP holder here. I spend way way way more $ at WDW than I would if I didn't have an AP, and we always stay on-site and eat on-site. We typically come twice a year. But without the AP it'd probably be only once a year.

Does Disney want to lose this income? Maybe they do. Maybe my thousands of dollars are nothing compared to the tens of thousands that other people might pay.

I guess we'll see.

 

[Wendysofftoneverland]

Out of stater here...We live less than a day's drive from Orlando and travel to Florida fairly frequently. I really wish they would sell single park annual passes. I would love to get an Epcot only annual pass, but until we decide to either full-time RV or snowbird in Florida, we can't access the Epcot after 4 pass. I feel like there are super-fans of Animal Kingdom that might opt for an AK only pass, kind of like a zoo membership. Disney could still get repeat visitor dollars at some of the parks that don't sell out as often. Right now we just buy a 4-6 day ticket each year, but I could see us spending a lot more food $ in Epcot if we could go any time. We will be spending 6 weeks in Florida this fall and while I hate missing out on the Food and Wine Festival, other Orlando attractions are more cost-effective.

 

[TCRAIG]

Out of state DVC Gold AP Passholder - I’m probably NOT the sort that Disney Mgmt wants. We go 3-4 times a year - 6-7 nights each trip. Usually it’s just me and my husband but sometimes we bring family as well. We kept our APs throughout 2020 so no problem renewing. We drive, park for free, stay on our DVC points, limit onsite meals to maybe 1 or 2 TS meals for the whole week plus a QS most days. We don’t drink nor do we usually buy any souvenirs - we just don’t need anything…it’s actually a pretty cheap vacation for us. That said - at least for WDW - I think they’ll have some sort of AP available - including one for DVC - but it may come with more limitations (more black out dates or by season maybe) and of course - COST MORE

 

[middlechild]

One small aspect to throw* out. Is there good will among the local voters in Orlando, enough to justify the locals AP? Would someone be more or less likely to vote the Disney candidate for local, regional, or state-wide office if they hold a Disney FL pass? If there is a benefit, intangible at best, would that enter into the deliberations of restoring such a pass?
For reference, the Eastern Gateway project at Disneyland very much rode on the elections to the Orange city elections with candidates clearly pro and anti Disney. This time around the anti won and the Gateway was paused.

edited for typo

 

[sssteele]

And yet they continue to build resort hotels and sell DVC. Hmmm

Disney figures that many DVC owners will bite the bullet and purchase full-price tickets for several days during their DVC resort stays. My wife and I (DVC owners) make several trips a year to WDW. 20 to 30 days a year makes it very likely that our park days will be extremely reduced. Just can't justify it at over $200 a day. $200 times 30 equals $6000. CRAZY!

 

[Liquidice]

I've heard Disneyland had a lot more AP holders than WDW does. I don't have a credible source, but a friend of mine told me a CM at Disneyland told him there are significantly more Disneyland AP holders (like 10x more) than WDW and some of them had grandfathered in perks like free parking. Disney had planned to revamp the AP system at Disneyland before the pandemic, but since it was closed for so long they took the opportunity to do it early.

OCR estimates that half of the visits to Disneyland are by AP holders though and that they had 1 million AP holders ... "Combined, Disneyland and DCA draw an estimated 28.6 million visitors annually, according to TEA/AECOM. Passholders make up 14.3 million of those visits each year, based on the UBS estimates." ... "The attendance numbers from TEA/AECOM don’t represent park capacity, but they give a sense of the daunting challenge of accommodating 1 million passholders presented Disneyland."

Source: https://www.ocregister.com/2021/02/...ccounted-for-half-of-attendance-analysts-say/

Another source citing 1 million AP holders in Disney Land -
"The Los Angeles Times reported Disneyland has an estimated one million passholders.
“There’s probably more passholders in Disneyland than there is in Disney World,” Munarriz said. “Disney will need its Disney World passholders more than Disneyland passholders in the near future.”"

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bus...0210120-x6hu23nf7fanlpvgt6ij4th42m-story.html
Couldn't easily find anything that says how many AP holders Disney World has.

That isn't to say WDW won't eventually follow suit, but I do think there is less of a problem at WDW with local APs versus Disneyland - and as such, I suspect Disney will test things out first at Disneyland before they make any changes to WDW.

I also heard (not sure if it is true, maybe someone else can confirm?) that Disney has an agreement with the Florida government to offer discounts to Florida residents - and I'm sure in return they get something, it may have been part of the establishment of the Reedy Creek Improvement district? I don't know if it specifically calls out annual passes, might just be a discount for Florida residents.

As far as DVC is concerned, I'm a DVC member myself - and I don't think Disney will make any AP decisions based solely on us.

If the DVC AP perk goes away, it will eventually be replaced with something else. Maybe discounted tickets, or if paid Fastpass becomes a thing, maybe DVC members will get it for free or discounted.

Or DVC could opt to work something out with the larger Disney and institute a special ticket option just for DVC blue card members. Imagine if you could get a DVC Annual Pass that is good to visit the parks anytime you are staying on property (cash or points). That would push more direct DVC sales (which is all Disney cares about) and it would also discourage any DVC member from staying offsite. It would probably be a nightmare for Disney IT, but they already have all of the data attached to your MDE account, so it is feasible for them to work out the logic. At the end of the day, that could accomplish what Disney wants without pissing off DVC members too.

 

[mackmack]

Can anyone explain for me why they haven't just simply announced that AP's will be coming back? Why hold on to that? It hurts nobody to let everyone know they will be back but due to the current limitations there is a pause. In addition, simply read through the pages of this thread. There are TONS of people who are calling them begging to renew and Disney is denying them. Unless you cancelled at a certain time and they were forced to oblige, but read all the people they are denying. Remember, these are VOUCHERS that are activated not now, but when you first use them. Yet most people are denied.

Why?

I just would like to know if they truly were coming back why they wouldn't:

A. Not simply reinstate them and let people buy them with full transparency that there are block out dates and no availability according to the calendar due to capacity limitations not within their control. The ticket would become active upon first visit(which is what they are doing) so there is no downside to buying and not being able to use it when you are ready.

B. Why not just do a press release saying "we understand you are eager to purchase AP's and they will be available for purchase in the near future, we will update you when we are ready to reinstate the program"

The reason is crystal clear to me that they can not and will not make that announcement because the AP program is being dissolved. It's the only logical explanation. Otherwise, just announce they are coming back it hurts nobody and puts at ease anyone wondering or needing to budget for such an expenditure. Nobody finds their absolute and complete radio silence regarding this program that has been around forever unusual?

 

[GGJDad]

Can anyone explain for me why they haven't just simply announced that AP's will be coming back?

I own DVC and when logged in, on the ‘Know Before You Go’ Parks and Tickets page, it says:

Purchasing or Renewing Annual Passes
At this time, the sale of new annual passes is temporarily paused. However, current Annual Passholders may still renew their pass.

 

[jade1]

We just renewed DVC AP (could have done Local AP), but we tend to spend quite a bit of money at the parks when we go. Certainly there are times we used to just go in for a Nightshow-but even then drinks all around.

It's been almost impossible to get a Dining Res in the parks-making it tougher to hand them more money. So we often end up at D Springs for the evening, a Disney Resort or Food booths at EPCOT (when we can get in to EPCOT that is).

I wouldn't be against them "tracking" our purchases, and maybe some form of loyalty program that allows you in for more days with the more money we spend. If they count Disney Resort and/or D Springs dining/drinks even better.

Like a bare bones example down to a given day. We recently purchased 3 $100 gift cards at EPCOT, so we could easily swipe at the booths. Those lasted 2 days. We scored a last minute ressie at BOGuest which was about $300 as well. The list goes on.

No idea what the formula would/could be, but certainly over a year the amount we spend would be embarrassing actually-in Disney's favor.

 

[Liquidice]

Can anyone explain for me why they haven't just simply announced that AP's will be coming back? Why hold on to that? It hurts nobody to let everyone know they will be back but due to the current limitations there is a pause. In addition, simply read through the pages of this thread. There are TONS of people who are calling them begging to renew and Disney is denying them. Unless you cancelled at a certain time and they were forced to oblige, but read all the people they are denying. Remember, these are VOUCHERS that are activated not now, but when you first use them. Yet most people are denied.

Why?

I just would like to know if they truly were coming back why they wouldn't:

A. Not simply reinstate them and let people buy them with full transparency that there are block out dates and no availability according to the calendar due to capacity limitations not within their control. The ticket would become active upon first visit(which is what they are doing) so there is no downside to buying and not being able to use it when you are ready.

B. Why not just do a press release saying "we understand you are eager to purchase AP's and they will be available for purchase in the near future, we will update you when we are ready to reinstate the program"

The reason is crystal clear to me that they can not and will not make that announcement because the AP program is being dissolved. It's the only logical explanation. Otherwise, just announce they are coming back it hurts nobody and puts at ease anyone wondering or needing to budget for such an expenditure. Nobody finds their absolute and complete radio silence regarding this program that has been around forever unusual?

Because Disney stinks at communicating imho. For the longest time they didn't tell anyone anything about Disney Cruise Lines - while Royal Caribbean was over communicating on what they were doing as an example.

As a DVC owner, they have done a crappy job at communicating as well - for awhile they had no idea what they were going to do with people's points that were going to expire - and they could have communicated and said "We are trying to figure it out, this has never happened before, please bare with us" But they said absolutely nothing and left their CMs out in the cold with what to tell people who were worried and calling.

For hotels, club level rooms, entertainment and restaurants re-opening, we usually only hear a few weeks before it actually happens ... So, what we can probably assume is that we're not yet a few weeks away from when APs will return.

But they do like GGJDad said, have on the website that sales are temporarily paused.

But - I think part of what you're thinking is that they want to say nothing so if they decide to change the program entirely or cancel the program they can still do that - and I think that is entirely plausible as well - I don't think they will cancel it outright, if they do get rid of the existing AP program they will instead replace it with something that costs more and gives you less and celebrate how much better it is.