Apple iPhone battery replacement price knocked down

[bcla]

Apple intentionally throttled older phones to get people to upgrade. Period. Of course they're going to claim it was another reason now that they're being sued.

Then why does testing indicate that a newer battery in an older device restores the performance?

Most people frankly won’t even notice. This is something that’s uncovered with benchmark tests designed to continuously max out performance. It’s not the kind of performance that any normal user would need on a regular basis. All modern battery powered devices throttle back. To not do so would drain a battery within less than an hour and possibly even overheat/damage the device.

I’ve worked the electronics industry for a long time, and consumers are often unrealistic about what they think can be practically done. Apple is hardly the first company to have throttled performance based on battery condition, nor the first company that didn’t tell consumers that they did it. There are tons of reports of portable devices with older batteries shutting down at seemingly random times. Sure, Apple could have handled it better, but a lot of the claims frankly seem to be unfair characterizations of their motives.

I’ve also heard anger that Apple didn’t at least give the option to override it. That’s just crazy. That’s like asking a carmaker to set an option to override a rev limiter that’s preventing the engine from destrying itself. This particular issue may not be where one is risking permanent damage, but an unplanned shutdown is hardly a reasonable trade off.

 

[bcla]

On my laptop.... I have a several battery choices. High-Performance, Balanced, and Battery-Saver. Why could Apple not offer this as a setting?

Looking at my iPhone X.... I wonder will the phone look the same with a battery swap a year from now.

I so miss the swappable batteries on the old phones.

Apple doesn't have that option on their laptops. Part of what Apple does is provide a level of simplicity.

Still - when presented with a maximum life (where the charge is only allowed between maybe 20% to 80%) vs maximum capacity, most people opt for maximum capacity. Then they complain that the battery is dying after a year of use. My mom asked me to set up her new laptop for max capacity, even though she almost never uses it unplugged. Her use is where she might barely take it around the house for less than an hour before plugging it back in to the power supply.

 

[sksjasams]

I've got an iPhone 7 and I'm thinking I'll see if I might be able to get a proactive battery replacement in 2018.

I'm not sure how it's supposed to work. Some of the talk is that Apple Stores specifically run a diagnostic and will only perform a replacement if it's below the "80% health" threshold. That's always been the standard that Apple has claimed was their rated battery life - that after 300/500/1000 full charge-discharge cycles where there should be an expectation (not guaranteed of course) that the battery should have 80% of its original capacity.

I wouldn't count on being able to do any proactive battery replacements. We took my DS's 6S to the Apple Store the week before Christmas. He is having problems with short battery life and shutdowns. He goes to school out of state, so I wanted to get the battery changed when he was home for winter break. They tested his phone and said he has 83% capacity, so he couldn't get a new battery. I wanted to pay full price for a new battery and they refused. They told him to come back in a couple months and have it tested again to see if had dropped to below 80% yet.

 

[EveDallas]

Then why does testing indicate that a newer battery in an older device restores the performance?

Most people frankly won’t even notice. This is something that’s uncovered with benchmark tests designed to continuously max out performance. It’s not the kind of performance that any normal user would need on a regular basis. All modern battery powered devices throttle back. To not do so would drain a battery within less than an hour and possibly even overheat/damage the device.

I’ve worked the electronics industry for a long time, and consumers are often unrealistic about what they think can be practically done. Apple is hardly the first company to have throttled performance based on battery condition, nor the first company that didn’t tell consumers that they did it. There are tons of reports of portable devices with older batteries shutting down at seemingly random times. Sure, Apple could have handled it better, but a lot of the claims frankly seem to be unfair characterizations of their motives.

I’ve also heard anger that Apple didn’t at least give the option to override it. That’s just crazy. That’s like asking a carmaker to set an option to override a rev limiter that’s preventing the engine from destrying itself. This particular issue may not be where one is risking permanent damage, but an unplanned shutdown is hardly a reasonable trade off.

You're certainly free to think what you want. But there's no way Apple would be issuing a public apology and discounting replacement batteries if they hadn't been caught out. This is just one more reason I will never give Apple a cent of my money.

 

[bcla]

I wouldn't count on being able to do any proactive battery replacements. We took my DS's 6S to the Apple Store the week before Christmas. He is having problems with short battery life and shutdowns. He goes to school out of state, so I wanted to get the battery changed when he was home for winter break. They tested his phone and said he has 83% capacity, so he couldn't get a new battery. I wanted to pay full price for a new battery and they refused. They told him to come back in a couple months and have it tested again to see if had dropped to below 80% yet.

Yeah - that was my thought, that it might not be under the threshold and it might take a while for it to get there. Apple says that they're going to give easier to access battery health information. I can get that readily for every Mac notebook computer I've owned.

Third party repair shops of course don't care, but for them the service isn't a courtesy (at $29 it might be for Apple) and such service will be priced to make independent repair shops money. I'm also not sure what Apple will do in the future if a non-OEM battery is installed. They could refuse any battery service, and it might even be obvious via a battery diagnostic.

I know that Apple doesn't necessarily want to be doing a whole lot of battery replacements, but at this point they're going to have to do it as PR damage control. It's a time-consuming job, and certainly at the $29 price point I'm not sure they make any money considering the cost of labor and the costs of operating in high-rent locations.

 

[disneychrista]

Problem is it is for iPhone 6. It leaves out for all of us with iPhone 5's that are having the slow down/lag issue with the newest iOS.

 

[bcla]

You're certainly free to think what you want. But there's no way Apple would be issuing a public apology and discounting replacement batteries if they hadn't been caught out. This is just one more reason I will never give Apple a cent of my money.

I get your opinion (that all older iPhones are intentionally hobbled to spur new sales) but it's simply not borne by the facts. This is the original post from Geekbench that explained that they were getting reports that a new battery would improve benchmark scores.

https://www.geekbench.com/blog/2017/12/iphone-performance-and-battery-age/
A Reddit post from last week has sparked a discussion regarding iPhone performance as a function of battery age. While we expect battery capacity to decrease as batteries age, we expect processor performance to stay the same. However, users with older iPhones with lower-than-expected Geekbench 4 scores have reported that replacing the battery increases their score (as well as the performance of the phone). What’s going on here? How many phones are experiencing decreased Geekbench 4 score?​

If they were doing this in an effort to drive customers to buy new phones, a new battery wouldn't restore the peak performance.

I do get that low-level Apple employees aren't exactly told what's going on, and as a result said that maybe it's time for a new phone. I've worked in the electronics industry, and for something as complicated as an iPhone there are literally hundreds of things that have to be accounted for and can't possibly be made publicly known unless there's a specific, widespread problem. I've had access to confidential errata sheets from a major chipmaker, and it was literally hundreds of items.

What Apple is dealing with is a PR problem dealing with people who generally don't understand the underlying technology. Apple most certainly can't be the only company that has implemented a battery management profile that throttles back the performance in some way. Other companies haven't been forthright that they do it, or if they don't that there's a problem.

Other manufacturers have claimed they don't do the same thing, but then there are reports that they have products that shut down prematurely. One example is the Google Nexus 6P, where some reports were that the random shutdowns ended when new batteries were installed.

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/a_d9wsQCaTQ
Welcome to the Nexus Help Forum. I can help with this! I have the same exact issue on multiple 6p devices and replacing the battery fixed every one of them. I will link my post describing the process for you next. It fixed the shutdown issue 100%!​

http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/0...ing-nexus-6p-early-shutdown-bootloop-lawsuit/

 

[bcla]

Problem is it is for iPhone 6. It leaves out for all of us with iPhone 5's that are having the slow down/lag issue with the newest iOS.

It's unclear whether or not your machine would be affected. Most reports are that the battery throttling only happens for the iPhone 6/6s/7. The way to find out is to load a diagnostic like Geekbench and run it at 25% battery capacity shown on the screen. You could compare that to posted benchmark scores or older results.

With a device that old I'd think that slowing down could be more a matter of running newer, power hungry apps or newer versions of iOS taxing the processors.

Still - at that age a new battery can do wonders especially with unexpected shutdowns. Apple isn't making those part of the plan. You probably can pay the $79 for an Apple OEM battery replacement, or maybe risk getting a third party install or doing it yourself. I don't mind doing stuff myself, but after seeing what it looks like I wouldn't do it myself with all the adhesives and various things that need to be removed and replaced. I gave my old iPhone 4s to some friends going overseas, and they got a new battery for it that cost less than $15 installed. That did wonders for it.

 

[EveDallas]

I get your opinion (that all older iPhones are intentionally hobbled to spur new sales) but it's simply not borne by the facts. This is the original post from Geekbench that explained that they were getting reports that a new battery would improve benchmark scores.

https://www.geekbench.com/blog/2017/12/iphone-performance-and-battery-age/
A Reddit post from last week has sparked a discussion regarding iPhone performance as a function of battery age. While we expect battery capacity to decrease as batteries age, we expect processor performance to stay the same. However, users with older iPhones with lower-than-expected Geekbench 4 scores have reported that replacing the battery increases their score (as well as the performance of the phone). What’s going on here? How many phones are experiencing decreased Geekbench 4 score?​

If they were doing this in an effort to drive customers to buy new phones, a new battery wouldn't restore the peak performance.

I do get that low-level Apple employees aren't exactly told what's going on, and as a result said that maybe it's time for a new phone. I've worked in the electronics industry, and for something as complicated as an iPhone there are literally hundreds of things that have to be accounted for and can't possibly be made publicly known unless there's a specific, widespread problem. I've had access to confidential errata sheets from a major chipmaker, and it was literally hundreds of items.

What Apple is dealing with is a PR problem dealing with people who generally don't understand the underlying technology. Apple most certainly can't be the only company that has implemented a battery management profile that throttles back the performance in some way. Other companies haven't been forthright that they do it, or if they don't that there's a problem.

Other manufacturers have claimed they don't do the same thing, but then there are reports that they have products that shut down prematurely. One example is the Google Nexus 6P, where some reports were that the random shutdowns ended when new batteries were installed.

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/a_d9wsQCaTQ
Welcome to the Nexus Help Forum. I can help with this! I have the same exact issue on multiple 6p devices and replacing the battery fixed every one of them. I will link my post describing the process for you next. It fixed the shutdown issue 100%!​

http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/0...ing-nexus-6p-early-shutdown-bootloop-lawsuit/

Like I said, you have your opinion. Unless you are one of the decision makers at Apple, your opinion really doesn't mean any more than mine.

 

[bcla]

I wouldn't count on being able to do any proactive battery replacements. We took my DS's 6S to the Apple Store the week before Christmas. He is having problems with short battery life and shutdowns. He goes to school out of state, so I wanted to get the battery changed when he was home for winter break. They tested his phone and said he has 83% capacity, so he couldn't get a new battery. I wanted to pay full price for a new battery and they refused. They told him to come back in a couple months and have it tested again to see if had dropped to below 80% yet.

Take it for what it's worth since I normally wouldn't recommend it, but there are ways to sabotage the battery capacity. It's well known that operating at excessive high temperatures will cause li-ion batteries to lose capacity. It's actually pretty hot inside most portable devices, but higher ambient heat will typically mean higher internal temperatures. My understanding is that the primary reason is that the battery loses water, although there are other components that degrade when it gets too hot.

One time I forgot my phone in my car on a hot day. It would only monitor the temperature with a message on the screen that it would only operate normally once it sensed that it had cooled to a certain point. As someone who has studied datasheets and done temperature-dependent characterization of chips, this is nothing unusual. It's just one of several reasons why a device manufacturer would institute some sort of throttling and/or temporary disabling. Some of the people who are saying that Apple should give people the option to operate at full performance on a battery that might shut off would probably want to still operate in high temperature conditions where it might be damaged. Sometimes it just makes sense to allow the people who design all the hardware/software to do their jobs and not assume some nefarious motives.

 

[dosekies]

Are there any reliable ways to check your battery life other than going to Apple? I've had my 6 since Sept 2015 and frequently have to recharge my phone by the middle of the day as the battery seems to drain so quickly. I have tried a few of the apps that say they check battery life and they all say my battery is still in the high 80% range which I find baffling.

 

[bcla]

Are there any reliable ways to check your battery life other than going to Apple? I've had my 6 since Sept 2015 and frequently have to recharge my phone by the middle of the day as the battery seems to drain so quickly. I have tried a few of the apps that say they check battery life and they all say my battery is still in the high 80% range which I find baffling.

Apple says that they're going to have an iOS update by the end of January that will allow the user to easily check battery status. I've heard that some people have been able to call into Apple and were able to extract battery status remotely before being sent in for battery service. I don't believe that it's anything that a user can do without Apple or an authorized repair shop controlling the process.

https://www.howtogeek.com/254739/how-to-check-your-iphones-battery-health/

Basically, they’ll tell you to DM them and you’ll give them your iPhone’s serial number and iOS version. They’ll then approve you for a diagnostics test which you’ll access in the settings app. Once it’s done running, you’ll let the support rep know and then they’ll let you know about the status of your battery’s health. Pretty cool!

The only downside is that Apple wouldn’t provide me with a quantifiable number as far as the health of the battery, only saying that it “appears to be in perfect health”.​

The only other methods are approximate. There are battery benchmark apps, but they require that the battery be fully charged, then fully drained. They basically monitor the current draw and extract battery capacity once the whole thing shuts down.

 

[bcla]

Are there any reliable ways to check your battery life other than going to Apple? I've had my 6 since Sept 2015 and frequently have to recharge my phone by the middle of the day as the battery seems to drain so quickly. I have tried a few of the apps that say they check battery life and they all say my battery is still in the high 80% range which I find baffling.

I didn't really think of it before because I never used it to check my iPhone's battery status, but the article I linked mentions the CoconutBattery application. It is only available for Mac though. I had an earlier version of it, but downloaded the latest version because the old (5+ years) one wouldn't work. The latest version gives detailed Mac notebook computer battery stats as well as for iOS devices if they're plugged in. It even gives information such as max power drawn from the power source. I plugged mine into a bus powered USB hub and it said 2 watts. I then tried it when plugged directly to my MacBook Pro's USB port and it said 10 watts. It also lists the manufacture date and serial number.

For me it shows the charge capacity and "design capacity" down to 0.1% increments. It also lists the number of cycles. I'm getting about 170 cycles and about 97% design capacity (aka "health"). That's actually pretty good. I thought that maybe the time left it in my hot car that it would have dropped a bunch. I know it calculates partial cycles linearly - i.e. four 25% draws register as 1 cycle. However, partial cycles are generally easier on the battery than full discharge cycles. At this rate I don't think my battery will be even at the 90% battery health threshold after the magic 500 cycles.

I don't know if you have a Mac, but if you know someone who has one you should be able to run CoconutBattery on your phone.

http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/

 

[dosekies]

I didn't really think of it before because I never used it to check my iPhone's battery status, but the article I linked mentions the CoconutBattery application. It is only available for Mac though. I had an earlier version of it, but downloaded the latest version because the old (5+ years) one wouldn't work. The latest version gives detailed Mac notebook computer battery stats as well as for iOS devices if they're plugged in. It even gives information such as max power drawn from the power source. I plugged mine into a bus powered USB hub and it said 2 watts. I then tried it when plugged directly to my MacBook Pro's USB port and it said 10 watts. It also lists the manufacture date and serial number.

For me it shows the charge capacity and "design capacity" down to 0.1% increments. It also lists the number of cycles. I'm getting about 170 cycles and about 97% design capacity (aka "health"). That's actually pretty good. I thought that maybe the time left it in my hot car that it would have dropped a bunch. I know it calculates partial cycles linearly - i.e. four 25% draws register as 1 cycle. However, partial cycles are generally easier on the battery than full discharge cycles. At this rate I don't think my battery will be even at the 90% battery health threshold after the magic 500 cycles.

I don't know if you have a Mac, but if you know someone who has one you should be able to run CoconutBattery on your phone.

http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/

Thank you! I do have a Mac, so I am going to download this now

 

[dosekies]

Thank you! I do have a Mac, so I am going to download this now

So I guess I won't be getting a new battery soon. I'm at 84.9% design capacity with 651 charge cycles.

 

[disneychrista]

It's unclear whether or not your machine would be affected.

Well what other explanation would there be for the slow down / lag only AFTER the upgrade to iOS 11? Literally the next day after the phone updated?

 

[bcla]

Well what other explanation would there be for the slow down / lag only AFTER the upgrade to iOS 11? Literally the next day after the phone updated?

OS upgrades often feel like it’s slower, especially with older devices Either it’s implementing features that are more power hungry, and/or the file system is doing “bookkeeping”.

The way to find out is to get the battery health status, and run a benchmark. The benchmark can be compared to typical scores.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I for one think they were perfectly happy knowing older models were being slowed down and that it effected new models sales. Like iPhone but Apple is a very profit driven company and very ruthless at times IMO.

 

[bcla]

So I guess I won't be getting a new battery soon. I'm at 84.9% design capacity with 651 charge cycles.

You might try again later and see what it says.

Battery "health" is kind of a weird thing. There's no practical way to determine exactly how much capacity is left in a battery, although a complete drain of the battery to measure the capacity is about the best that can be done. The battery diagnostic data has to be extracted and guessed from various info including stuff that stored to a battery's onboard diagnostics that estimate how much battery degradation has occurred. It has data storage that keeps data that feeds into the degradation model, and keeps info like the number of cycles. You could just put an old battery in a different device, and that history goes with it and will show up on a battery diagnostic. My history with li-ion battery diagnostics are that the calculated capacity can even go up because it's always just calculating an approximation and monitoring the state of the battery.

Just yesterday I tried draining my battery all the way down and then charging it back up. Right now it's measuring about 95% when it was at 97% yesterday.

 

[bcla]

There are reports that Apple Stores are waiving the typical battery health requirement and will do the $29 replacement even if it passes 80% health.

https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-battery-slowdown-replacement-waive-test/

There’s one comment in the article claim8ng that the poster got a whole new iPhone 6. They might do that if there’s enough “new old stock”, as it doesn’t require any labor. They usually recommend having a backup to restore a new phone.