Are any Disney guests average income people?

[Fiji271]

Seems like the podcast gang has been pretty down about Disney offering less while charging more. Also seems like they (and many on message boards) are talking a lot about average guests being priced out and a Disney vacation being exclusive to only high income earners. I would argue a Disney vacation has been too expensive for the vast majority of Americans for the past 20+ years. Where has the outrage been? Is It because now more of us are now part of that majority? I’m really interested in hearing how you all feel. It just bums me out when people only get fired up when a pricing issue finally affects them. By the way, when you can barely walk through a park due to crowds (my experience at Dsneyland in July) management would not be doing their job if they didn’t raise prices.

 

[MillauFr]

An average income family living in Manhattan makes about $500k per year. So yes they can afford Disney

 

[twincruisers]

There is also an added factor that FL/CA locals have an added advantage of taking advantage of the lower tiers of APs that allow a wider class/income range than those out-of-state too. When I grew up near Anaheim I think I (or my family) may have paid for 60% of my tickets. The other 40% were from free tickets or performing at Disneyland and getting free run of the park afterwards. I do think that a lot of those loopholes were closed over time but there were a wider range of people who could go to Disneyland via other means were squeezed out by looking at retail ticket prices. What's happening with the changes the past 18 months seem to target that last bastion of affordable pricing and throw that out the window in lieu of higher-performing ($) guests.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I would argue a Disney vacation has been too expensive for the vast majority of Americans for the past 20+ years. Where has the outrage been? Is It because now more of us are now part of that majority?

This exactly.
People on the Disboards and the wider Disney fan community who have been going to the parks multiple times a year or once a year for 20 plus years, always stayed on site and never had to really budget for their Disney vacations are NOW feeling the pinch.

For the last 20 plus years they were able to make Disney Parks a big part of their lives as it was affordable. They never really had to economize in other areas of their life to make Disney parks a regular reality.

However this group of people are a very small percentage. They never really thought about poor people being able to go to Disney parks as they assumed everyone in the parks was similar to their socio economic group and their financial situation.

But now they are the "poor" people. The outrage over not being able to stay onsite as thats something they have always done. But for the majority of families, the ONLY way they can go to Disney parks is to stay offsite.

The outrage at not being able to go every year but now having to go every other year. But for the majority of families, they have always gone every other year as thats the only way they can afford Disney parks.

The outrage at not being able to afford up charge events and specialty dining. But the majority of families have never done up charge events and specialty dining as they cant afford them.

Going to Disney Parks is a privilege most people will never experience.

 

[jimmymc]

The median household income for a US family is $68,700, which reduces to $64,000 after taxes, and the average family size is 3.15. Most financial experts recommend a recreation budget of 15% of income, which is $9,600. This includes going out for food, sports, field trips, travelling to see family, and vacations. I priced out a 5 night stay in a value resort at off-peak time, 4 day base ticket, plus money for dining and the total price is $3,800. That does not include the price to get from your home to Orlando, which varies with where you live, but I will estimate $900, giving us a total cost of $4,700.

So while the average family can technically afford it, that is assuming they don't do much else fun for the rest of the year. And in reality, most people will travel to visit family, do things during the holidays, go to a concert or game a few times a year, so doing a trip on property, even at a value, is difficult unless you really save.

As for the outrage, have you read the boards in the past two months? Chapek is the face of evil, and people are posting left and right about how they're done with Disney. The average American hasn't been able to afford Disney for a while, but just now people who are used to going every year or twice a year now can't afford to go as frequently.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The median household income for a US family is $68,700, which reduces to $52,000 after taxes, and the average family size is 3.15. Most financial experts recommend a recreation budget of 15% of income, which is $7,800. This includes going out for food, sports, field trips, travelling to see family, and vacations. I priced out a 5 night stay in a value resort at off-peak time, 4 day base ticket, plus money for dining and the total price is $3,800. That does not include the price to get from your home to Orlando, which varies with where you live, but I will estimate $900, giving us a total cost of $4,700.

So while the average family can technically afford it, that is assuming they don't do much else fun for the rest of the year. And in reality, most people will travel to visit family, do things during the holidays, go to a concert or game a few times a year, so doing a trip on property, even at a value, is difficult unless you really save.

As for the outrage, have you read the boards in the past two months? Chapek is the face of evil, and people are posting left and right about how they're done with Disney. The average American hasn't been able to afford Disney for a while, but just now people who are used to going every year or twice a year now can't afford to go as frequently.

Families (with children) making $68,700 don't pay taxes.

 

[jimmymc]

Families (with children) making $68,700 don't pay taxes.

They pay $4,200 in federal taxes according to my estimate, but the earlier number did not include dependents, so I'll edit that.

 

[sheilafri]

This exactly.
People on the Disboards and the wider Disney fan community who have been going to the parks multiple times a year or once a year for 20 plus years, always stayed on site and never had to really budget for their Disney vacations are NOW feeling the pinch.

For the last 20 plus years they were able to make Disney Parks a big part of their lives as it was affordable. They never really had to economize in other areas of their life to make Disney parks a regular reality.

However this group of people are a very small percentage. They never really thought about poor people being able to go to Disney parks as they assumed everyone in the parks was similar to their socio economic group and their financial situation.

But now they are the "poor" people. The outrage over not being able to stay onsite as thats something they have always done. But for the majority of families, the ONLY way they can go to Disney parks is to stay offsite.

The outrage at not being able to go every year but now having to go every other year. But for the majority of families, they have always gone every other year as thats the only way they can afford Disney parks.

The outrage at not being able to afford up charge events and specialty dining. But the majority of families have never done up charge events and specialty dining as they cant afford them.

Going to Disney Parks is a privilege most people will never experience.

I agree with pretty much everything you say. It seems most people will never go to Disney or will go only once or a handful of times in their lives. My husband was 30 the first time he went to DL and he grew up in a relatively affluent family. DD and DS1 were in HS before they went to WDW. DS1 has never been back and he’s 35. We now qualify for FL Res APs so DH and I go maybe 8-10 days a year on the Weekday Select/Pixie Dust AP.. We are relatively affluent ourselves but we spend a lot of time in the parks people watching and wondering how people afford it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

They pay $4,200 in federal taxes according to my estimate, but the earlier number did not include dependents, so I'll edit that.

Gross salary is not the same thing as taxable income.

A family making $68,700 has a standard deduction of $25,100 and probably $12,000 of pre-tax insurance premiums, making their taxable income $31,600. It would be even lower if they're doing any 401(k) or IRA savings. This corresponds to a tax of about $3,400 before credits. Assuming two children, the child tax credit of $2,000 per child more than covers this.

 

[maverik85]

The median household income for a US family is $68,700, which reduces to $52,000 after taxes, and the average family size is 3.15. Most financial experts recommend a recreation budget of 15% of income, which is $7,800. This includes going out for food, sports, field trips, travelling to see family, and vacations. I priced out a 5 night stay in a value resort at off-peak time, 4 day base ticket, plus money for dining and the total price is $3,800. That does not include the price to get from your home to Orlando, which varies with where you live, but I will estimate $900, giving us a total cost of $4,700.

So while the average family can technically afford it, that is assuming they don't do much else fun for the rest of the year. And in reality, most people will travel to visit family, do things during the holidays, go to a concert or game a few times a year, so doing a trip on property, even at a value, is difficult unless you really save.

As for the outrage, have you read the boards in the past two months? Chapek is the face of evil, and people are posting left and right about how they're done with Disney. The average American hasn't been able to afford Disney for a while, but just now people who are used to going every year or twice a year now can't afford to go as frequently.

I think this nails it down pretty well. A trip was affordable to the average families, but only with saving and budgeting usually. I think the multiple times a year crowd never realized that that was never an a normal thing. I was always so surprised by people that talked about going multiple times a year and lived nowhere near it. I could see if they were within Florida that could easily get away more for a long weekend and drive in a few hours or so. But we see stuff about people from Illinois or further that would go 3 times a year. This was far from an average household's vacation. Even an annual trip would be a lot for the average household, but think it was well within the range do go every few years or so.
But as Fiji271 said too, with the crowds in the park it made sense for them to raise prices too. Honestly the bigger issue to me isn't so much the price increases but the removing of perks for guests, especially those paying to stay onsite. Having fewer experiences and perks with higher costs is what is off to me.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Honestly the bigger issue to me isn't so much the price increases but the removing of perks for guests, especially those paying to stay onsite. Having fewer experiences and perks with higher costs is what is off to me.

People keep saying this, but what was removed besides Magical Express, which sounds to have been more of a Mears decision than a Disney decision?

 

[jimmymc]

Gross salary is not the same thing as taxable income.

A family making $68,700 has a standard deduction of $25,100 and probably $12,000 of pre-tax insurance premiums, making their taxable income $31,600. It would be even lower if they're doing any 401(k) or IRA savings. This corresponds to a tax of about $3,400 before credits. Assuming two children, the child tax credit of $2,000 per child more than covers this.

Ok, I'm neither a parent nor an accountant, so that is new information. Either way that doesn't drastically affect the final numbers.

 

[jimmymc]

People keep saying this, but what was removed besides Magical Express, which sounds to have been more of a Mears decision than a Disney decision?

Late extra magic hours and early access to free fastpasses are the big two. And Magical Express was a Disney decision. They paid Mears for the service and chose to stop paying for it.

 

[maverik85]

People keep saying this, but what was removed besides Magical Express, which sounds to have been more of a Mears decision than a Disney decision?

Extra Magic Hours have been lessened for most with only deluxe resorts getting evening hours. (Personally I'm ok with the 30 minute early hours since it will be all parks and spreading the crowds out so can probably do just as much in the 30 minutes as the 60 from prior). Character Meet and Greets aren't really back, fewer shows, most Streetmosphere cut, no more free parking for on site guests, free FastPass gone (this is another one that so far I'm ok with as every other park is paid and it was hard to get many of the big ticket ones and required additional planning, but it is still another perk lost), and Magical Express that you mentioned. Might be some others I'm not thinking of too. But this all comes to a lessened experience in many ways with a higher ticket price.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Late extra magic hours and early access to free fastpasses are the big two.

30 minutes at every park every day and evening hours for Deluxe guests is a net add. This will cost Disney more in labor to operate than the old one park per day. This is a change but I don't consider it a cut.

And Magical Express was a Disney decision. They paid Mears for the service and chose to stop paying for it.

My understanding from people fairly familiar with the negotiations is that Mears was seeking an abnormally high rate increase for the renewal.

Extra Magic Hours have been lessened for most with only deluxe resorts getting evening hours. (Personally I'm ok with the 30 minute early hours since it will be all parks and spreading the crowds out so can probably do just as much in the 30 minutes as the 60 from prior). Character Meet and Greets aren't really back, fewer shows, most Streetmosphere cut, no more free parking for on site guests, free FastPass gone (this is another one that so far I'm ok with as every other park is paid and it was hard to get many of the big ticket ones and required additional planning, but it is still another perk lost), and Magical Express that you mentioned. Might be some others I'm not thinking of too. But this all comes to a lessened experience in many ways with a higher ticket price.

Half of what you said is a COVID problem. Streetmosphere wasn't "cut", it was suspended due to the global pandemic.

 

[BadPinkTink]

We are relatively affluent ourselves but we spend a lot of time in the parks people watching and wondering how people afford it.

I am a low income person and I have been to Disneyland California every year from 2010 to 2019. I can't say how low income people do Walt Disney World as I have never been, but this is how I afford to travel to California and Disneyland every year.

I stay offsite at Motel 6 which on average is $120 per night. Thats about the lowest per night price for Anaheim in June. Motel 6 is about 20 minutes walk from Disneyland security check. I either walk or use local bus which costs $25 for a 5 day pass.

In comparison
Disneyland Hotel per night rate is approx $600

Before Covid, I never paid for Maxpass which was about $20 per day, I used the free fastpass kiosks

I go to Disneyland every June, I do 3 park days. From August each year I start saving for the following years trip. I put money aside each week and divide it up for various things.

My daily budget for a park day was $50. This was for quick service food and merchandise shopping. I would check out the merchandise on my first park day and then on my last day, whatever money I had left would be for merchandise. I would have breakfast at Starbucks and that money would be separate and loaded into the Ap. I would do 1 table service meal per day, which due to having to be pre booked, I would know how much it would cost, and the 3 days table service money would be loaded into a gift card.

 

[Disneyfan754321]

Everyone has different ways of spending money..
My DH was really into modding cars... it was stupid expensive hobby and he was not alone. It's all about how you spend your money.

 

[maverik85]

30 minutes at every park every day and evening hours for Deluxe guests is a net add. This will cost Disney more in labor to operate than the old one park per day. This is a change but I don't consider it a cut.

Half of what you said is a COVID problem. Streetmosphere wasn't "cut", it was suspended due to the global pandemic.

The morning hours at all parks is an additional labor, but the evenings hours are only one park a day for two hours, where in the past it was 3 hours. So it is one hour less itself. So Morning hours are an addition, but evening are a cut that is being offered to much fewer people as well.

And the COVID cuts I understand but they could be putting them back out. Meet and Greets are harder to do but Streetmosphere is perfectly capable of being done still. Other parks have brought back that kind of entertainment but Disney hasn't done much. They have the character sightings but that seems more of a replacement to Meet and Greets for now and not Streetmosphere.

Want to clarify too that I am not completely bashing Disney either. I still think what they are offering is great, and I do still plan to return at some point in the future. But I understand where the upset people are coming from as well.

 

[jimmymc]

30 minutes at every park every day and evening hours for Deluxe guests is a net add. This will cost Disney more in labor to operate than the old one park per day. This is a change but I don't consider it a cut.


My understanding from people fairly familiar with the negotiations is that Mears was seeking an abnormally high rate increase for the renewal.


Half of what you said is a COVID problem. Streetmosphere wasn't "cut", it was suspended due to the global pandemic.

It's not net add unless you're staying at a deluxe resort. You used to have 1 park open an hour early and another open 2-3 hours late for all on-site guests. Now it's only 30 minutes, and I can't visit all 4 parks in that time. It's a cut to the amount of time I can spend in the parks each day, even if it's not a cut to labor.

Disney could've gone with other transportation providers or insourced it. That's still a cut perk even if the cost went up, and at the same time as cutting DME, resort prices have been higher than we saw right before covid shutdowns.

I'm also not convinced shows staying closed is Covid at this point when they have no issues packing the Haunted Mansion stretching room or Runaway Railway preshow. Streetmosphere characters aren't even in a show building, they only cost what you're paying the person.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm also not convinced shows staying closed is Covid at this point when they have no issues packing the Haunted Mansion stretching room or Runaway Railway preshow.

When I say "because of COVID," I'm not necessarily meaning "for health and safety reasons." Housekeeping is the easiest example. Disney claims that daily housekeeping is suspended for the "health and safety" of the cast. That's obviously BS, I agree with you. But COVID is still the reason... in this instance because they can't get the staff they need.