Attendance Down, Revenue Up

[rteetz]

Exactly, I would not step foot into Shanghai, and would avoid DLP and Hong Kong as well.

Wow my dream is to visit every single Disney park and unless there was some serious threat I don't think anything would stop me from going into any of those parks. Especially Paris is one of the most beautiful parks Disney has built.

 

[Nancyg56]

Wow my dream is to visit every single Disney park and unless there was some serious threat I don't think anything would stop me from going into any of those parks. Especially Paris is one of the most beautiful parks Disney has built.

I have heard it is lovely, but I am one of those nervous Nellies. I wish that I was not, and honestly it is not in many areas of my life, but this is one of them. It's funny, I am not afraid to fly, and flew right after 9-11. I am not afraid of crowded places, or "likely" targets. But Paris does make me uneasy, and Hong Kong just holds no interest. I will not travel to Shanghai, but not due to fear. I just do not like the politics there.

 

[rteetz]

I have heard it is lovely, but I am one of those nervous Nellies. I wish that I was not, and honestly it is not in many areas of my life, but this is one of them. It's funny, I am not afraid to fly, and flew right after 9-11. I am not afraid of crowded places, or "likely" targets. But Paris does make me uneasy, and Hong Kong just holds no interest. I will not travel to Shanghai, but not due to fear. I just do not like the politics there.

I understand I just don't know if much could keep me from going to Paris. Maybe Shanghai but definitely not Paris.

 

[Nancyg56]

I understand I just don't know if much could keep me from going to Paris. Maybe Shanghai but definitely not Paris.

I don't blame you! I will be honest, the opportunity has never presented itself to me, but I bet if it did....I would have a change of heart in a flash!

 

[Pemeberly]

I understand I just don't know if much could keep me from going to Paris. Maybe Shanghai but definitely not Paris.

I realize I'm taking this more off-topic but just adding to this to say that it would be silly to avoid going to Paris because of terrorist attacks. Honestly, ANY major city is a target and could be attacked. If anything, a recently attacked city is probably safer because security and awareness are heightened.

And I'm not just saying that because I'm going to Paris and maybe DLP this summer.

 

[Eoghann]

I realize I'm taking this more off-topic but just adding to this to say that it would be silly to avoid going to Paris because of terrorist attacks. Honestly, ANY major city is a target and could be attacked. If anything, a recently attacked city is probably safer because security and awareness are heightened.

And I'm not just saying that because I'm going to Paris and maybe DLP this summer.

And statistically you're more likely to be hit by lightning than killed in a terrorist attack. The leading cause of death for American tourists is.... car crashes. And since we're on the cheerful subject we're 35,000 times more likely to die of heart disease and 33,000 times more likely to die of cancer.

Terrorism is a scary thing but it's the mundane that kills you.

 

[OldsDr]

I have this general feeling that WDW has been riding the coattails of the global economic bubble and if/when we have another financial crisis WDW will be taking it on the chin.

You are correct, but it is actually quite worse than this. While they have been riding the bubble they have also been mortgaging the good will and reputation built in the 80s and 90s. When that bubble does pop they may not have the regulars they take for granted to help bail them out.

 

[Darcy03231]

You are correct, but it is actually quite worse than this. While they have been riding the bubble they have also been mortgaging the good will and reputation built in the 80s and 90s. When that bubble does pop they may not have the regulars they take for granted to help bail them out.

I agree. I was one of those regulars. If you told me 5 years ago and I wouldn't include WDW as a yearly vacation destination I would have laughed at you. After ok trips in 2011 and 2012 and a very disappointing trip in 2013, we haven't been back. We do plan to go back eventually when the new attractions are open (probably 2019 or 2020), but I doubt that we'll be yearly visitors again now that our Disney "bubble" has burst.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Excellent...and many of us are on the same wave of continued disrespect, value reduction.

 

[jaxonp]

I understand I just don't know if much could keep me from going to Paris. Maybe Shanghai but definitely not Paris.

I went on a 3 week european trip last fall to London, Paris, Rome and The Amalfi Coast. Everyone in my party wanted their own free day and nobody in my group had any interest in Disney. We were in Paris for 5 nights 6 days. My free day was spent at DLP resort. I boarded the RER A train from Les Halles train station ( $14 euros both ways...one of the biggest and scariest in Europe, so they say ) left at 6:30 am so I'd arrive by 7:30 to walk around Disney Town so I could walk around and scope out everything. Shortly after I walked through the beautiful Disneyland Hotel to buy my 1 day 2 park ticket and the fun began. I was there open to close, walked 17 miles, and would do it again in a heartbeat. Everyone spoke English so if thats a concern, don't let that bother you! So Much Fun!!!! And Paris has the best BTMRR I've been on by far. Ratatouille is the best Disney Attraction Made. And the Disney Dreams show at night was wonderful as well. If you need a travel companion who knows there way around Paris, message me!

 

[jaxonp]

I realize I'm taking this more off-topic but just adding to this to say that it would be silly to avoid going to Paris because of terrorist attacks. Honestly, ANY major city is a target and could be attacked. If anything, a recently attacked city is probably safer because security and awareness are heightened.

And I'm not just saying that because I'm going to Paris and maybe DLP this summer.

Also, Parc Disneyland is 45 min outside the City Center. I have not felt unsafe in Paris. American cities are far worse.

 

[OldsDr]

I agree. I was one of those regulars. If you told me 5 years ago and I wouldn't include WDW as a yearly vacation destination I would have laughed at you. After ok trips in 2011 and 2012 and a very disappointing trip in 2013, we haven't been back. We do plan to go back eventually when the new attractions are open (probably 2019 or 2020), but I doubt that we'll be yearly visitors again now that our Disney "bubble" has burst.

Exactly. After going at least once a year from 1993 to 2006. It was less than that from 2007 - 2013. After my last trip in 2013 I have not been back. Just canceled my 2016 because the value was not there once I figured everything in. My kids got excited enough about going to please touch museum in PA, with sesame place, Dorney Park (snoopys place) and Philadelphia Zoo that I decided to put WDW off one more year to save a lot of cash.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Exactly. After going at least once a year from 1993 to 2006. It was less than that from 2007 - 2013. After my last trip in 2013 I have not been back. Just canceled my 2016 because the value was not there once I figured everything in. My kids got excited enough about going to please touch museum in PA, with sesame place, Dorney Park (snoopys place) and Philadelphia Zoo that I decided to put WDW off one more year to save a lot of cash.

I'm fascinated, Olds...you seemed like such a diehard...

Was there anything specific that turned the worm for you?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Also, Parc Disneyland is 45 min outside the City Center. I have not felt unsafe in Paris. American cities are far worse.

Anyone "boycotting" Paris is just depriving themselves...honestly.

Best city on earth

 

[manning]

Anyone "boycotting" Paris is just depriving themselves...honestly.

Best city on earth

I rather tour Paris.

 

[OldsDr]

I'm fascinated, Olds...you seemed like such a diehard...

Was there anything specific that turned the worm for you?

Remember you asked


I was a Huge WDW fan, but it all comes to value. In 1994 (there was an error in my post it should have been 1994 - 2007) on my first trip that I really remember we stayed at Wilderness Lodge and loved it. It was the first time I was old enough to go off by myself and take my little brother. No trip could ever equal that trip, nor would I expect it too. Back then I was the biggest apologist out there. I would tell people the price of admission at MK and EP was worth it even if you did not go on a single ride. Between the street acts, parades and shows it was well worth the price of admission (with multi-day passes). With length of stay passes there was even more value.


There are multiple points that stick out hard as to when things started losing value for me, some was early on in my annual/semi-annual quests.

1. Biergraten went Buffet (’95 –’96?). I ate there when it was a menu restaurant and loved it when I was in my late Teens. A short time later went back and it was the buffet. It was okay but not as good, the show made up for it. It was around that time when they started going buffet at a lot of places. Not major, but I am not a big fan of buffets, especially at WDW prices.
   
   
2. Magic your Way Tickets (or anything but my way) Length of stay passes got you unlimited access to all parks, PI and DQ. When MYW tickets were introduced a 7 day ticketed with WP&M got you only 5 extra visits. So one year I could go to a major park all day, then hit PI and DQ every night. MYW killed DQ for me, going to both used 2 of those points, it wasn’t worth it. Eventually the extra points were modified to included 1 extra point for every day purchased but it still was not the same value for me.
   
   
3. Pleasure Island- the slow murder of. Remember when they advertised PI on billboards. Remember the outdoor DJ having as many people dancing as the actual clubs. Well that was before the west side was built, that was before MYW tickets. If they had gone MYW before DQ was built MYW probably would not have been a big deal for me. But PI was slowly killed, I think people stopped coming when the WP&M option included PI and WPs, that made the two equal in price and therefore a lot of people stopped going to PI and saved the options for waterparks. WDW also stopped investing in it. And when Westside was built people wanted to walk through it. If it was built where Cirque is now, it might actually still be operating (I know there were other economic forces involved too so maybe not)
   
   
4. Food quality (see number 1) Since they discovered Buffets and the dinning plan food quality has decreased. It is as simple as that. Every menu is a variation of the same 4 to 5 main ingredients. You may get a Teriyaki NY strip at Kona, and pepper crusted NY strip at GF Café, but is that truly variation and uniqueness. I want to order a Walla Walla Wallbanger at the WL pool, not from the same drink menu you get at TGI Fridays or Ruby Tuesdays. I want different items at different restaurants. I also remember deciding on the plane ride down where to eat dinner and it was never an issue.
   
   
5. Prices. I will not compromise my vacation time or money. If I cannot do a vacation the way my family and I want I will find something that we can do the way we want. The price increases at WDW are starting to make it so I can’t in good conscience spend the money it takes to do it the way I want. Example: I will not stay in a hotel on an extended family vacation that does not have a balcony. Where does that put me at WDW? If we are just going to the Drag races for a couple days the Red Roof inn is fine, but once you get to a week-long stay I want that balcony. I don’t mind if my balcony is looking at a parking lot, I just want to able to go out on one and sit and relax after the kids are asleep. Ticket prices are harder to swallow on unfulfilled promises of what is to come on top of all the closures.

What it boils down to they are charging more for less. There are other minor things. We have however decided to go back next year. Our Kids did not know about this trip so it was an easy cancel. They are asking to go back. With all my complaints above, there is still some value in going for me, but it is quickly approaching zero value. I have not tried FP+ yet hoping for the best. Maybe my expectations are so low now they can WOW me again.

 

[manning]

Remember you asked


I was a Huge WDW fan, but it all comes to value. In 1994 (there was an error in my post it should have been 1994 - 2007) on my first trip that I really remember we stayed at Wilderness Lodge and loved it. It was the first time I was old enough to go off by myself and take my little brother. No trip could ever equal that trip, nor would I expect it too. Back then I was the biggest apologist out there. I would tell people the price of admission at MK and EP was worth it even if you did not go on a single ride. Between the street acts, parades and shows it was well worth the price of admission (with multi-day passes). With length of stay passes there was even more value.


There are multiple points that stick out hard as to when things started losing value for me, some was early on in my annual/semi-annual quests.

1. Biergraten went Buffet (’95 –’96?). I ate there when it was a menu restaurant and loved it when I was in my late Teens. A short time later went back and it was the buffet. It was okay but not as good, the show made up for it. It was around that time when they started going buffet at a lot of places. Not major, but I am not a big fan of buffets, especially at WDW prices.
   
   
2. Magic your Way Tickets (or anything but my way) Length of stay passes got you unlimited access to all parks, PI and DQ. When MYW tickets were introduced a 7 day ticketed with WP&M got you only 5 extra visits. So one year I could go to a major park all day, then hit PI and DQ every night. MYW killed DQ for me, going to both used 2 of those points, it wasn’t worth it. Eventually the extra points were modified to included 1 extra point for every day purchased but it still was not the same value for me.
   
   
3. Pleasure Island- the slow murder of. Remember when they advertised PI on billboards. Remember the outdoor DJ having as many people dancing as the actual clubs. Well that was before the west side was built, that was before MYW tickets. If they had gone MYW before DQ was built MYW probably would not have been a big deal for me. But PI was slowly killed, I think people stopped coming when the WP&M option included PI and WPs, that made the two equal in price and therefore a lot of people stopped going to PI and saved the options for waterparks. WDW also stopped investing in it. And when Westside was built people wanted to walk through it. If it was built where Cirque is now, it might actually still be operating (I know there were other economic forces involved too so maybe not)
   
   
4. Food quality (see number 1) Since they discovered Buffets and the dinning plan food quality has decreased. It is as simple as that. Every menu is a variation of the same 4 to 5 main ingredients. You may get a Teriyaki NY strip at Kona, and pepper crusted NY strip at GF Café, but is that truly variation and uniqueness. I want to order a Walla Walla Wallbanger at the WL pool, not from the same drink menu you get at TGI Fridays or Ruby Tuesdays. I want different items at different restaurants. I also remember deciding on the plane ride down where to eat dinner and it was never an issue.
   
   
5. Prices. I will not compromise my vacation time or money. If I cannot do a vacation the way my family and I want I will find something that we can do the way we want. The price increases at WDW are starting to make it so I can’t in good conscience spend the money it takes to do it the way I want. Example: I will not stay in a hotel on an extended family vacation that does not have a balcony. Where does that put me at WDW? If we are just going to the Drag races for a couple days the Red Roof inn is fine, but once you get to a week-long stay I want that balcony. I don’t mind if my balcony is looking at a parking lot, I just want to able to go out on one and sit and relax after the kids are asleep. Ticket prices are harder to swallow on unfulfilled promises of what is to come on top of all the closures.

What it boils down to they are charging more for less. There are other minor things. We have however decided to go back next year. Our Kids did not know about this trip so it was an easy cancel. They are asking to go back. With all my complaints above, there is still some value in going for me, but it is quickly approaching zero value. I have not tried FP+ yet hoping for the best. Maybe my expectations are so low now they can WOW me again.

 

[Huff]

Wow my dream is to visit every single Disney park and unless there was some serious threat I don't think anything would stop me from going into any of those parks. Especially Paris is one of the most beautiful parks Disney has built.

True but they did arrest two individuals at one of DLP's resorts with a bomb a couple months ago. I have not heard what they had intended to do.

 

[rteetz]

True but they did arrest two individuals at one of DLP's resorts with a bomb a couple months ago. I have not heard what they had intended to do.

It wasn't bombs they had guns in their checked luggage as they were going into the Disneyland Paris Hotel.

 

[oddman]

Revenue will follow attendance. As someone who regularly visited three times per year and held an annual pass, but has not found any reason to bother going to WDW in the last three years, I'm one of those loyal customers whose loyalty has been tried to the breaking point. No plans to visit this year either. WDW these days is incredibly high prices coupled with more and more disappointments regarding the actual guest experience. Attendance has caught up with this reality and revenue eventually will.

I agree. Dis has reached a tipping point for many customers, whether or not this is just the life cycle of the typical customer I do not know. But I suspect that over time many guests just become disillusioned with crowds and pricing. Perhaps the loss is simply filled by some 20 somethings on the other side of the curve.