Avatarland? scaleback

johnGorski

Mouseketeer
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Just returned from a great trip to Orlando. I went to dinner with a friend who works with Disney and we where talking about upcomming attractions at WDW. Avatarland! He was saying the project itself will be scaled back to 1 E-ticket, costing around 150mill in camp Minne Mickey area. With the scale back to the avatarconcept he said Epcot, DHS will get 100million plus E-tickets and WoC type show to DAK. All of this could open 2016.

He also claimed the long term goal is to make Camp Minne, Mickey area a "mythical kingdom"


It kind of makes sence with the huge avatar 500mill$ announcement yet no concepts have been issued


Figment and others have you heard of any of this. He was dead on with mission space, EE, FLE and has been wrong Tron so far Monsters Inc coaster. he did say Iger and TDO are fully commited on spending over half a billion on attractions not including FLE.
 
Just returned from a great trip to Orlando. I went to dinner with a friend who works with Disney and we where talking about upcomming attractions at WDW. Avatarland! He was saying the project itself will be scaled back to 1 E-ticket, costing around 150mill in camp Minne Mickey area. With the scale back to the avatarconcept he said Epcot, DHS will get 100million plus E-tickets and WoC type show to DAK. All of this could open 2016.

He also claimed the long term goal is to make Camp Minne, Mickey area a "mythical kingdom"


It kind of makes sence with the huge avatar 500mill$ announcement yet no concepts have been issued


Figment and others have you heard of any of this. He was dead on with mission space, EE, FLE and has been wrong Tron so far Monsters Inc coaster. he did say Iger and TDO are fully commited on spending over half a billion on attractions not including FLE.

There is no way to be sure at this point...but for "cast member friend" type rumors...all of what you said see entirely within the realm of possibilities.

Studios still needs consistent, core investment...and will for quite awhile at their snails pace...

the Avatar announcement always seemed more like a "ride" than a land. Disney was using the announcement to try to make "their own" heavily themed concept like the harry potter addition at universal. I, personally, don't believe they ever intended on expanding past a ride...but were using it to deflect PR/...which is often the goal.

As far as the "mythical kingdom"...that may eventually be what goes in. As it was the original plan and has been pined for by both employees and the core fan base alike since the day it was scrapped by evil mikey eisner to rush the park opening and cut the budget. that of course was to "beat" the opening of IOA - two parks that are apples and oranges and aren't really comparable on any level.

But that sounds like wishful thinking - expanded parks require more staffing and operating costs...which - as we've seen - have been avoided like the plague for quite sometime.

We shall see.

On another related note: i read an article in the wall street journal (which i rarely do - because that paper spews all of whats wrong with the country and what is harmful to disney park fans) yesterday commenting on the expected rising returns on TWDC stocks because they a "exiting a period of heavy capital reinvestment" over the last few years.
Summary: they've spent SOOOO much money in their parks - now we investors can make the money off them we deserved as they begin to shake the money tree...

Unfortunately, WDW - in proportion - will not look a whole lot different after these fantastic expenditures...and if you think about it: the wrecking of pleasure island is almost off-setting the fantasyland expansion.
Which means that the only real huge bump of the last 10+ years are villas, toy story mania (which in reality is a kinda simple theme park ride with lots of money dumped on top), and apparently the failed Expedition Everest.

That's not to discount the money/improvements to fantasyland - which seem to be pretty good effort...but is it enough to keep wdw elite longterm? or better yet...anywhere close to the huge prices that they will slap on it going forward?

your opinion on that...i know what mine is.

But the end result is that i actually look for a significant "dead time" in capital investments to be in order.

And...big and...the impending retirement of Iger is a HUGE deal when it comes to park investments.
whoever they replace him with will probably try to "stamp" the operation - as all egotistical overpaid cutthroats do...

if its somebody young and imaginative like - ironically -the 1984 michael eisner...then the paying customer could benefit.

If its Tom Skaggs...a glorified accountant...my premise is only beginning.
more to come
 




I still find it hard to believe but id rather see the money go to JII and UOE.

I don't disagree but I still like the idea of an Avatar attraction. Could be very cool if done properly. Lots of possibilities. I know there are lots of people that don't like the movie but I am certainly a fan. It's not my most favourite movie but it's one of those movies I can watch over and over. (I watched it at least 10 times now) Cameron created a pretty immense world and is still expanding it. I would love to see this world in reality
 
Great points!

Avatarland was announced in Sept. you would think we would see some type of concept art. From what my friend said the one attraction will be one of its kind type of a flight sim featuring Avatar.

I am all for it to scale back Avatarland and re route the funds to Epcot and DHS. It would make more sence IMHO, however TDO may just use the funds for more timeshare resorts.

DHS-a major E-ticket-150mill
Epcot-Country, JIT redone ect-150 mill
DAK-Avatar E-ticket-200 mill

There is your 500 million, make 2015-2016 a great one... Similar to the Happiest Celebration on Earth.
-EE, LMA, Soarin', all opened in that time frame.
 
Id like to see

EC:
JII 150mil

UOE
100 mil

DHS
MI coaster 100 mil

DAK
Get something 150 mill
 
I understand your way of thinking regarding Toy Story Mania, but I world have to disagree on the fact that Expedition Everest is failure.

The main attaraction and part of the ride no longer functions in any capacity. I'd say that is a failure.
 
oh good grief, its just PI all over again isnt it..... announce that something huge and wonderful is coming without any real solid plans.

Personally I'd like to think that Avatarland will happen, and it will maybe be in phases. Give us a little area now, and a very good E-Ticket and that would be ok for a few years.

However, having said that, if they did that it would probably turn out to be another pixar place and never really get completed. :confused3
 
The main attaraction and part of the ride no longer functions in any capacity. I'd say that is a failure.

Exactly....

without the giant yeti...there IS no ride.

It's skull mountain at six flags with a really expensive on-ride photo.

that ride is vekoma "off the shelf"...which can be bought, installed, and covered in a steel supersturcture shaped like a mountain for probably 1/3 the cost if not less.

the yeti HAD to work for it to be a success...not really debatable.

And i know i could get thousands of "I love that ride!! Wishes and Magic XOXXOO!"

but that is not the point...nor the argument.

Disney rides are expensive because they are constructed thematically via storyboard...3 dimensional movie productions of sort. Hence the exhorbinant cost (some would argue that disney gets screwed on labor/ construction costs and thats why the cost is high...Exactly the opposite. because they are disney they impose very low compensation structures and heavy timeline bonuses/penalties which in practice makes contractors spend more labor to meet the timelines - often the case because of disney redesigns)
IF the yeti doesn't work...the story is not achieved. By definition...EE is a failure. And little movement on repair for...geez...7 years almost to the date of opening...indicates a concession by management of that failure - in my opinion.
 
I wonder if the "Moving away from capital expenditures" is a note about all expenditures.... Or just the MASSIVE expense they poured into DCA to "fix" the park. From the grand scheme of things, 150-500mil poured over a few years on several projects at different parks at WDW probably won't have the same bottom line impact that the huge amount of $$ on the DCA fixes had.
 
I wonder if the "Moving away from capital expenditures" is a note about all expenditures.... Or just the MASSIVE expense they poured into DCA to "fix" the park. From the grand scheme of things, 150-500mil poured over a few years on several projects at different parks at WDW probably won't have the same bottom line impact that the huge amount of $$ on the DCA fixes had.

I was reading that also, and wondering about the $1 Billion being spent on "Next Gen" stuff which I still haven't figured out where more than about $50 million is going :confused3
 
the figures quoted covered worldwide "capital reinvestment"...which seemed to indicate construction and not research but didn't specifically say...

i'll see if i can post the link.

that figure stated "4 billion" for last year - i believe....which is all bulldozer activity...including DCL, paris, HKDL, the DCA redo, and i would assume a portion of shanghai investment...

but the article is depressing...and i'm sure what the board is thinking...

"now its time to rake in...we've done enough for now"

which is a BS lehman brothers type mentality...not what should be the disney way
 

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