Beware of Perverts - Unfortunately, even at the happiest place on earth

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That was certainly uncalled for. People can have a difference of opinion without having to resort to name calling. :mad: I don't recall reading anyone suggesting they were a better parent than the next person. We all want to keep our children (or grandchildren in my case) safe. It's how we get there where we don't all agree. There's nothing wrong with a healthy discussion.

Beth


Oh , but we are allowed to call people "helicopter moms" and "mammas boys" and I think another quote from this thread was "smothering parent" none of those names bothered you, but me saying some parents are too lazy to be bothered offended you?
 
Oh , but we are allowed to call people "helicopter moms" and "mammas boys" and I think another quote from this thread was "smothering parent" none of those names bothered you, but me saying some parents are too lazy to be bothered offended you?

Sorry I struck a nerve with you but it's still my opinion.

Beth
 
This is such an interesting thread. I haven't got much experience with the whole independence v protection difficulty as my son is only 2.5, and i guess i will just have to deal with it when the time arrives - no point worrying about it till then.
I allow my child to ride a bike, despite the risks of her falling off and getting serious injuries. However, I mitigate these risks by making sure she wears a helmut, knows the rules of the road, only rides on very quiet streets or bike paths, etc. If I truly wanted to avoid all risks, she wouldn't be able to ride her bike at all. However, I don't think that that is in her best interests.

Every time I take my daughters in the car with me, I take the risk that we will be struck by a drunk driver. The risk of this occurring is much greater than the risk of my daughters getting kidnapped and murdered by a stranger in wal-mart (particularly when they are there together, holding hands). And yet, we still go out on the roads. I accept these risks because I think it is better for my children and I to go out into the world rather than stay home avoiding every potential risk.

I also feel that the value of children learning some measure of independence in reasonably controlled situations also outweighs what I perceive are the minimal risks.

It's not that I don't worry about these things - I am human after all, and trust me - despite comments on this board, I doubt that any parent could love their child any more than I love mine (certainly as much though :love: ). However, I refuse to my life (and have my children live their lives) in constant fear. We are all aware of the risks, do what we can to minimize them within reason , and pray to a higher power that we manage to avoid what we can't control.

As a previous poster mentioned, parenting is about balance. Balancing the risks vs. developing a healthy sense of independence. While I can certainly see how parents can become obsessed with keeping their kids safe by avoiding all risk, I just tend to think that as a society, our risk-taking is all out of whack. The same parent that won't let their child go to the bathroom alone, may let their child ride in the front seat of the car, or feed them a high fat diet that may lead to serious health complications (certainly not referring to the OP, just in general!). None of us can avoid every risk in life.

To be honest, when I made my original post, I didn't really mean to stir up so much controversy. It's just that the seemingly constant posts about NEVER letting children out of parents' eyesight is a sad commentary on our perception of society as a whole.


I have to say i completely agree with this post. I think it is important to remember that nobody on this thread seems the type of people who would leave their kids with a stranger or on their own in WDW, as appears to be mentioned in most of the anecdotes. From what i can gather i think everyone has got the right amount of balance. It is a very fine line and i am sure everyone occasionally steps on one side or the other of it from time to time, but we are only human, and i am sure no long lasting damage will be done to our kids.

My sister in law, however, has gone way too far being overprotective and i can sadly see the results with the kids. Both of them have got absolutely no social skills as a result. What worries me, as BCDisneyFanatic, is that society is getting more and more like my sister in law. She refuses to take them to London (she only lives 1 hour away) for fear of terrorist attacks and wont take them anywhere near an airport, let alone on a plane. These poor kids, apart from having no social skills, have missed out on so much and there is no way my son is going to miss out on any life skills and experiences because of the fear bad people in our world have created. Incidently, i don't for a second think that taking your child into the public toilets instead of waiting outside means they are missing out on life - i can't see that would do any harm ;)



A while back I was watching FOX news and I believe Bill O'Reilly has a segment about this and WDW (actually all theme park places that attract kids). There are sickos that film little one year old dancing around and lifting their tops and dresses (just like all babies do) these sickos sell this online. So it doesn't matter if our kids are with us or not keep your eyes peeled. There was a recent arrest in my town of a guy and his wife in possession of child pornography. He said his favorite was filming the young dancers at local parades..(my daughter was in every local parade as a baton twirler) he would sell is films all over the world. I get just sick thinking that my daughter could be in one of his twisted movies.

This is also something that worries me. I remember a few years back a local story where a grandfather got into a lot of trouble for video taping his grandkids having fun in our local swimming pool. Because of paranoia like this, I realised this is why i have no photos or videos of my own son having a great time swimming. Why should i, and thousands of other parents, miss out on fantastic memories (my parents have some great shots of me swimming as a child) because of fear. I really don't know what the answer is, we all think that what men like above do is absolutely sick, but the worrying thing is sometimes organisations deal with it in a way that end up with us all missing out as a form of protection. What can we possibly do to solve this in WDW? I am sure these men can turn something as simple as a child walking along Main Street into something evil, if they video taped it, with a combination of editing and a twisted imagination. Obviously banning all video cameras is the only way round this, but that would be awful if that happened. I know that would never happen in WDW, but the sad thing is, it is happening in other organisations here in England (don't know about USA).
 
I haven't been able to read all of the posts yet, but I want to encourage everyone to read the book, "Protecting the Gift". It is a great book that encourages parents to trust their instincts and shows ways to keep your kids safe without making them afraid of everyone. I know that Disney may be different, but one of the biggest things I took from the book is to tell your children, should they ever get lost, to go to find a Mom with a child (or grandma) and ask her for help. Some famous security guards (who look an awful lot like a police officer to a small child) have been the Son of Sam killer, the assassin of John Lennon, the Hillside Strangler and lots of other nice folks (please, please don't get mad if you or dh are security guards, I'm not saying all security guards are bad, just giving some info). A Mom will most likely take the child to the front desk AND wait with them until help arrives. She will become invested with making sure that child gets to his/her parents and she also doesn't have keys to back rooms like someone who works there would.

While I haven't read Protecting the Gift, I have read The Gift of Fear by the same author, which basically teaches to trust your instinct/intuition. They are just your subconscious mind expressing a lot of calculations.
 
I am glad you posted this link. It seems to me that these anti-smothering , let your kid learn and live posters on here have us stereotyped. Now I see what they think we do and it is totally incorrect. We don't smother our kids, we don't do their stuff for them, what is this? That definition is for some crazy obsessed mom on TV or something, not us. We just love our kids and don't want to take the slightest chance of them getting abused or abducted because we love them. How can we be smothering our kids by having them go to the bathroom with us, and not letting them ride around the neighborhood without us? From what I have noticed parents need to spend more time with their children anyway! You don't see them all day at school, then they come home and you don't go play with them in the back yard, or go bike riding with them, but let them go alone, maybe never to be seen again. I don't supervise my children in a smothering way. Talk about exageration! We do things together because it is fun and I love them and love being with them and in return I get to keep my eye on them like all good parents should I personally think. You know this might be awful, but when I see pregnant women smoking, kids not wearing seatbelts or kids 40-80 pounds not in a booster seat(you probably don't think they need those either) and kids roaming the neighborhood and stores alone, I think how can these kids parents love them? You don't do things to hurt them if you love them. It is your job to protect them, if you are not there you can not protect them. All you can do is hope everything you taught them keeps them safe and that they are not the 1 in 1000 that gets molested or abducted. That is not good enough for me, I will be there to protect if need be, I love my children to take any chances. I am a good parent because I watch my children, not smother them . It is just common sense.(I thought!)

Where did you get 1 in 1000 rate from?
 
I agree in watching your children closely, I know I will when that time comes. And also teaching your children about stranger/non stranger danger. But allow them to have fun and not hover over them. I know I will be flamed because "I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't have children" but before you jump on that bandwagon, let me explain

I was molested in my own HOME, bedroom, while my parents were in the next room sleeping, by an uncle who was staying with us out of the goodness of my parents' hearts.

You can keep your children safe, but sometimes you can't prevent everything. But you can support your children if bad things happen. I was taught all my life, stranger danger, and all the typical things, was hovered over, never allowed to go wandering a store, mall(I didn't do that until I was 22 years old) but it still happened. My parents are great parents,(so don't start on they were lazy, horrible bad parents because they turned there back on me for a split second, because I've witness severe depression because they felt horrible because they had to sleep while I endured all I did.) I guess all that I am saying is no matter how much you can protect your child, there is still a chance of it happening. I am happy to say that my parents stood by my side even through the plead bargin that let him off for what he did to me, through finding out he molested two other relatives, got caught again with another little girl, testifying against him again, and finally after 12 years get the sentence he deserved and closure for myself. He is in jail for life, never to hurt another little girl.

Sorry that this is a little off topic, but I felt it needed to be said and please don't flame me over it!
 
I agree in watching your children closely, I know I will when that time comes. And also teaching your children about stranger/non stranger danger. But allow them to have fun and not hover over them. I know I will be flamed because "I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't have children" but before you jump on that bandwagon, let me explain

I was molested in my own HOME, bedroom, while my parents were in the next room sleeping, by an uncle who was staying with us out of the goodness of my parents' hearts.

You can keep your children safe, but sometimes you can't prevent everything. But you can support your children if bad things happen. I was taught all my life, stranger danger, and all the typical things, was hovered over, never allowed to go wandering a store, mall(I didn't do that until I was 22 years old) but it still happened. My parents are great parents,(so don't start on they were lazy, horrible bad parents because they turned there back on me for a split second, because I've witness severe depression because they felt horrible because they had to sleep while I endured all I did.) I guess all that I am saying is no matter how much you can protect your child, there is still a chance of it happening. I am happy to say that my parents stood by my side even through the plead bargin that let him off for what he did to me, through finding out he molested two other relatives, got caught again with another little girl, testifying against him again, and finally after 12 years get the sentence he deserved and closure for myself. He is in jail for life, never to hurt another little girl.

Sorry that this is a little off topic, but I felt it needed to be said and please don't flame me over it!

I am so sorry to hear that. I am glad your family supported you, and I can't imagine anyone flaming you about it, although is has been happening...:sad2:
 
Good to see you didn't miss the point of her post...:sad2: :rolleyes:

Who rattled your cage? I was asking a legitimate question when someone was posing what seemed to be a statistical reference in support of her point. I have contibuted to this thread all through and had not resorted to insults and sarcasm but I will join in now!
 
Oh, did I do a good job, is 1 in 1000 a fact really?:confused:

Don't you have anything else to say about this discussion besides just picking on peoples comments?:sad2:

Yes read the whole thread. Do you have anything to say rather than calling some people lazy parents.
 
I agree in watching your children closely, I know I will when that time comes. And also teaching your children about stranger/non stranger danger. But allow them to have fun and not hover over them. I know I will be flamed because "I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't have children" but before you jump on that bandwagon, let me explain

I was molested in my own HOME, bedroom, while my parents were in the next room sleeping, by an uncle who was staying with us out of the goodness of my parents' hearts.

You can keep your children safe, but sometimes you can't prevent everything. But you can support your children if bad things happen. I was taught all my life, stranger danger, and all the typical things, was hovered over, never allowed to go wandering a store, mall(I didn't do that until I was 22 years old) but it still happened. My parents are great parents,(so don't start on they were lazy, horrible bad parents because they turned there back on me for a split second, because I've witness severe depression because they felt horrible because they had to sleep while I endured all I did.) I guess all that I am saying is no matter how much you can protect your child, there is still a chance of it happening. I am happy to say that my parents stood by my side even through the plead bargin that let him off for what he did to me, through finding out he molested two other relatives, got caught again with another little girl, testifying against him again, and finally after 12 years get the sentence he deserved and closure for myself. He is in jail for life, never to hurt another little girl.

Sorry that this is a little off topic, but I felt it needed to be said and please don't flame me over it!

Thank you for sharing your story - it is an important message for everyone to hear. I can't imagine that anyone on this thread would flame you for this:goodvibes

I'm glad you were able to get closure. So often these cases seem to go unresolved, particularly when family is concerned.
 
Yes read the whole thread. Do you have anything to say rather than calling some people lazy parents.


Actually read your thread, I wasn't the one who called people lazy parents!!! :rotfl: And actually SHE didn't really call people lazy parents, she just suggested maybe that was the reason people weren't watching their children appropriately!!!
 
Actually read your thread, I wasn't the one who called people lazy parents!!! :rotfl: And actually SHE didn't really call people lazy parents, she just suggested maybe that was the reason people weren't watching their children appropriately!!!

My apologies for my error. But I do think she did call people who did differently to her lazy just as some have said that parents can't love their children if they let them learn some independance.
 
My apologies for my error. But I do think she did call people who did differently to her lazy just as some have said that parents can't love their children if they let them learn some independance.

You are just taking offense because you have different opinions than us. I also didn't say parents can't love their children if they let them learn some independance, you just chose to take it that way. I said it makes me wonder. I am sure they do love them, although it is hard for me to imagine it seeing some of these young kids roaming around alone, like this 2 1/2 year old in our neighborhood!!!
As someone else said earlier, we shouldn't be mad at each other. We all have very different opinions and parenting styles. To each his own. Like I said earlier, I do it my way, no other way will work for me. Picking on little things people say when they are discussing such an important touchy issue is just not nice and not called for. Making people afraid of posting so they don't get verbally attacked afterwards is not nice either. And you do it a lot if you haven't noticed!
 
My worry isn't the violent abductor driving the van through the neighborhood snatching kids off of bikes--they are rare to the point of nonexistence. My worry is about the male neighbor with the trampoline and who always has a coke in the fridge for the boys..... That is more realistic, and easier to defend against.

You couldn't be any more wrong. I work in the field of corrections, and have dealt with several of these 'non-existent' offenders. Unfortunately, the Youth Criminal Justice Act prevents me from naming them, but I can give you a couple examples of molesters I have dealt with. "Craig" grew up in Winnipeg, and started molesting small children at 15, eventually he molested more than 2 dozen, in 2 different provinces. His mode of abduction, was to ride along in a beat up old truck, with the music up loud, luring kids to his vehicle by asking directions. He would pretend he couldn't hear them, and eventually would pull them in. If they yelled, he would pretend he was their brother, and was taking them home because they were in trouble. He used stolen trucks, and never used the same area twice. Unfortunately this worked for him, and he wasn't caught for 2 years. He served 5 years, and has been arrested since for rape.
"Will" lived in a small Northern Ontario town. He abducted an 8 year old girl from a school yard, right across from her home. He walked her almost a mile, into a wooded area, where he raped and murdered her. They found her dismembered body a month later.

Paul Bernardo, and his wife Karla Holmolka, abducted two St. Catherines girls (in separate events) as they walked home from school. They raped and murdered them. Bernado also was found to be the Scaborough Rapist, a serial rapist who terrorized the Eastern Toronto area for years. He has admitted to 25 rapes, on females from 14 to 25, in Ontario and Hawaii. His MO was to snatch girls from bus stops, but he also grabbed them as they walked through the park, entered the appartments, and layed on the beach.

In the 80's, Clifford Olsen abducted, raped and murdered at least 11 (all that he has admitted to) kids, in British Columbia. The kids ranged from 5 to 18, and were of both sexes. He abducted them off the street, one of which was 12 year old Christine Wellar, who was taken off a bicycle, less than 4 blocks from her home. He lured 15 year old Terri-Lyn Carson into his van, with the promise of employment, the same way he abducted 13 year old Colleen Daigneault. Louise Chatrand was abducted as she walked away from a convenience store. 13 year old Ada Court was abducted from a bus stop. 16 year old Daryn Johnsrude was abducted from a shopping mall parking lot.

Jahi Turner (2) was abducted from a playground in San Diego, and Alexis Patterson (7) disappeared on her way to school in Milwaukee.
I live in a very rural area, and a young girl was abducted from her own front yard, not even an hour from here. A couple months ago, a 5 year old was approached as she rode her bike on the side walk in front of her house.


Stranger abductions aren't as common as molestation by a known party, but they aren't rare. There are on average 114 600 attempted stranger abductions each year in the USA alone, with between 3200 and 4600 being 'successful'. This is directly from the US Department of Justice.
 
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