Buy Saratoga instead of Boardwalk, pass Go and collect $200...

[Dean]

While I'm onboard with most of your comment, I kinda disagree with this part. We have 4 young kids (oldest turns 10 this year) and weve finally hit the point where a studio type hotel room doesnt do it for us. Our last trip to aulani was the first we tried out a larger space on a vacation. Having a washer/ dryer, kitchen, etc... Is soooo much nicer than having 2 studio type rooms I dont think you can fairly compare those two. The one is more expensive, but brings a MUCH different experience imo. That's the reason were we're buying this, we can't go back to studio type rooms hahaha

For 6 people you wouldn't be able to do a studio or single hotel room so you'd compare to what you'd have to do cash options. In this situation it should be 2 hotel rooms that will connect compared to a 2 BR. In that situation a 2 BR fares pretty well financially speaking where once the youngest is 3, you can't use a 1 BR either. So if you're being honest and following the rules, I don't think you're actually disagreeing with me on that portion. I don't believe the W/D or full kitchen add enough value for most to consider it from a financial standpoint and how much value it adds otherwise is very variable from one to another. I'd also suggest that the kitchen isn't actually used to reduce costs nearly as much as people think it will be going in for most people. While the 2 BR is more than 2 studios, it's not 50% more, it's closer to 25% more. I believe one would have to count the W/D in the added value category.

 

[suebeelin]

Looks like you've been happy at value, offsite and moderates (price wise). If you're happy continuing in a combo of those three categories, dvc would not make financial sense.

However, if you're committee to paying moderates going forward, and committed to going to Disney, dvc will give you deluxe for a similar price.

We bought dvc bc we KNEW we couldn't do moderates after trying one (Caribbean?) once. We just couldn't (I'm very much a hotel snob). We also are on a limited budget for a few more years and very frugal (considering my tastes), so dvc made financial sense to us. It gave us the best of both worlds.

We also would not have began happy "stuck" at Saratoga. We had a one year old at the time, and desired near park resorts. Now, 5 yrs later, our kids are 2 and 6, and we still prefer near park resorts. No regrets.

Maybe when the kids are 16... In 10yrs (or 15yrs after our initial purchase), we would be ok with SSR. But not right now.

Dvc is very individual. It sounds like you're on the fence... It also sounds like should you decide to be on the "buy dvc" side of the fence, SSR might make most sense for you! You can trade once in awhile into bwv or the others, but not always, and you'll still be happy bc you'll be in SSR, a deluxe, as opposed to a moderate/value/offsite.

 

[Oozma_Kappa]

IMO, the best way to share a spreadsheet is to use Google Docs. It helps because the viewer can also see the formulas you used to create the spreadsheet. For me, anyway, it helps so I can figure out what you are trying to do.

I will try to figure that out. Y'all are a great group of people, so I'd really appreciate the help through the entire process. I will most likely analyze this through next year since I will have to stay at SSR first before deciding on it.

 

[Oozma_Kappa]

So... I don't know if this is at all helpful! We are glad to be SSR owners, even if we rarely stay there. We tend to travel in early September (before F&W festival), late January (after marathon), and late May (when F&G festival ended earlier). We aren't too picky which resort we stay at, just happy to stay at a gorgeous DVC villa!

This is extremely helpful. I would rather buy cheaper points and take my chances with the nicer stuff. This also makes me see an add on in the future once we have tried more deluxes ;-).

 

[Oozma_Kappa]

Looks like you've been happy at value, offsite and moderates (price wise). If you're happy continuing in a combo of those three categories, dvc would not make financial sense.

However, if you're committee to paying moderates going forward, and committed to going to Disney, dvc will give you deluxe for a similar price.

We bought dvc bc we KNEW we couldn't do moderates after trying one (Caribbean?) once. We just couldn't (I'm very much a hotel snob). We also are on a limited budget for a few more years and very frugal (considering my tastes), so dvc made financial sense to us. It gave us the best of both worlds.

We also would not have began happy "stuck" at Saratoga. We had a one year old at the time, and desired near park resorts. Now, 5 yrs later, our kids are 2 and 6, and we still prefer near park resorts. No regrets.

Maybe when the kids are 16... In 10yrs (or 15yrs after our initial purchase), we would be ok with SSR. But not right now.

Dvc is very individual. It sounds like you're on the fence... It also sounds like should you decide to be on the "buy dvc" side of the fence, SSR might make most sense for you! You can trade once in awhile into bwv or the others, but not always, and you'll still be happy bc you'll be in SSR, a deluxe, as opposed to a moderate/value/offsite.

Thanks for this! My husband and I are happy at anything not All Star. We stayed at Pop this past week and had an amazing time! The people that hang out at the pool bar were so much fun!
My parents like the off-site condos and PO FQ. We are an hour from New Orleans, so it's homey and cozy (don't get me started on their gumbo though, ew). My mom likes the hot tub. Is there a hot tub at SSR? Dad likes not having to walk a mile to get his coffee and likes to sit at the cafe outside in the mornings. Is SSR super spread out? Can I pay more for a preferred room?
My sister likes anything with a Mickey Waffle lol. She would stay in an old shoe on property over an off-site condo. I really don't want my parents to have to stay at Pop again. I had them stay there once in Jan. '15, because my husband and I paid for a family of 4 to stay there for 7 nights with food plan. Otherwise, I would have chosen PO FQ, so I'm ready to upgrade. We got preferred rooms close to the food court, but I still want them to have nicer. My husband and I enjoy Epcot and HS. We didn't even step foot in MK this past trip, but last Fri. dropped over $200 at Jellyrolls if that gives you an idea of our Disney preferences! (That is until we have a kid, and I start to want something on the monorail...) We also love the water parks. I think SSR would be a good fit for our style with it being close to downtown disney. This is really helping me decide, thanks! I think I can handle one year not maxing out Roth IRA's and still be ok lol.

 

[Brian Noble]

This is extremely helpful. I would rather buy cheaper points and take my chances with the nicer stuff. This also makes me see an add on in the future once we have tried more deluxes ;-).

I'm not sure any of those were race weekends though---those specific weekends tend to book very early, and a 7-month reservation at a near-park resort is going to be very hard.

If you are specifically planning for race weekends in the future (and it sounds like you are) then I'd recommend buying at a place that you wouldn't mind staying. That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy SSR, but at least think about it.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

So, here is my initial spreadsheet. I stole it originally from someone else, I don't remember who unfortunately, and modified it a bit.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FdinzJG3G5002eJT71wkBObCj31F0jmCJmM_szQzj3Q/edit?usp=sharing

These were my assumptions:
1. SSR 200 point contract @ $87 per point
2. Hotel Cost in 2016 = $170 per night
3. Both MFs and Hotel rooms increase by 4% per year
4. Investment Interest 5% per year
5. SSR 200 points = 1 studios x 14 nights vs. Cash = 1 hotel room x 14 nights
6. For Hotel cost, DVC buy in is invested at the Investment Interest rate above for the Hotel side. Once DVC begins to save money over hotels (i.e. after the break even point), all savings are invested at the same interest rate in favor of the DVC side.


A thought about investing the principal. I actually don't actually take this into account personally because there's too many variables. It relies on people actually saving the money and putting it in some kind of investment vehicle, which I would guess in real life most people wouldn't actually do. It also relies on being able to predict the future growth of stocks and bonds, which is a bit dicey as well.

When considering investing the money, most people just say well, DVC costs $20000 up front, so if I expect 5% per year, then that's $1000 per year of opportunity cost. IMO, it's actually not that simple. As @Dean alluded to, that principle decreases as you spend money on hotels. So, you get $1000 of interest but you spend $3000 on hotels. The following year, you only get 5% of $18000 (not $20000). And actually, to completely fair, at some point past the break even point for DVC, you should then start to calculate the 5% interest for the money you start saving on the DVC side.

Ultimately, according to my spreadsheet so far (I have to see if I made any errors)

Total cost of SSR = $132,110
Total cost of Hotels = $249,471

Value of investing = $74,206 in favor of DVC surprisingly.

Cost savings of SSR over Hotels over life of contract (not including investment) = $117,361
Cost savings of SSR over Hotels (including investments) = $191,567


Edit: I believe these are now correct

 

[Oozma_Kappa]

So, here is my initial spreadsheet. I stole it originally from someone else, I don't remember who unfortunately, and modified it a bit.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FdinzJG3G5002eJT71wkBObCj31F0jmCJmM_szQzj3Q/edit?usp=sharing

These were my assumptions:
1. SSR 200 point contract @ $87 per point
2. Hotel Cost in 2016 = $170 per night
3. Both MFs and Hotel rooms increase by 4% per year
4. Investment Interest 5% per year
5. SSR 200 points = 1 studios x 14 nights vs. Cash = 1 hotel room x 14 nights

A thought about investing the principal. I actually don't actually take this into account personally because there's too many variables. It relies on people actually saving the money and putting it in some kind of investment vehicle, which I would guess in real life most people wouldn't actually do. It also relies on being able to predict the future growth of stocks and bonds, which is a bit dicey as well.

When considering investing the money, most people just say well, DVC costs $20000 up front, so if I expect 5% per year, then that's $1000 per year of opportunity cost. IMO, it's actually not that simple. As @Dean alluded to, that principle decreases as you spend money on hotels. So, you get $1000 of interest but you spend $3000 on hotels. The following year, you only get 5% of $18000 (not $20000). And actually, to completely fair, at some point past the break even point for DVC, you should then start to calculate the 5% interest for the money you start saving on the DVC side.

Ultimately, according to my spreadsheet so far (I have to see if I made any errors)

Total cost of SSR = $132,110
Total cost of Hotels = $249,471

Value of investing = $83,784 in favor of DVC surprisingly.

Wow, thank you! I will be traveling for work, so I'll have time to look this over in the next few days and respond. What I'm wondering without seeing the spreadsheet yet is what you and Dean mentioned about the initial principal declining if using cash. I thought about creating a formula to create that scenario at first, but for simplicity's sake decided to not add interest earned onto the dues paid. That was close enough for me.
So my scenario is if I invested this money into a money 50 fund, maybe some in my disney stock, the growth was set at 4% to be conservative. I'm actually ok with putting the money toward the doc anyway since the market has been crappy lately.

 

[Dean]

Wow, thank you! I will be traveling for work, so I'll have time to look this over in the next few days and respond. What I'm wondering without seeing the spreadsheet yet is what you and Dean mentioned about the initial principal declining if using cash. I thought about creating a formula to create that scenario at first, but for simplicity's sake decided to not add interest earned onto the dues paid. That was close enough for me.
So my scenario is if I invested this money into a money 50 fund, maybe some in my disney stock, the growth was set at 4% to be conservative. I'm actually ok with putting the money toward the doc anyway since the market has been crappy lately.

Here's the way to think about it. Assume you had a windfall of exactly the amount of the purchase price and would get an additional yearly amount equal to the amount of the dues but indexed for inflation. You then had to plan to use that money alone for the accommodations over the time frame in question, basically the RTU in question. You then run that against the cost and inflation assumptions for the cash option. You then have to decide how to invest those dollars. Since I don't plan to do formal investing for money I'm going to use short term (say 4 years or less), I'm just going to park that portion in a money market account getting 1% if I'm lucky. But I'm going to formally invest the rest in mutual funds and I'm going to assume 8% after taxes there which I see as conservative. Over time you'll draw down first the MM funds then the invested funds and ad the yearly dues amount to the pot. Whether you'll use it all and when depends on the variables. When you compare that to cash either for renting DVC from a member or to what you would have likely stayed at not owning DVC, money that runs out well before the end means DVC would have been better, money left over means that not buying DVC would have been better financially speaking. When I did that I used 120 SSR points resale at $80 a point, current dues and PO riverside for a week at $215 per night after discount and after taxes (trying to compare general like for like). With those assumptions DVC will come out ahead by about $25K over 40 years but you'll have more safety and more control by using cash.

 

[suebeelin]

All of the above calculations are assuming no, or proportionally, residual value of the property should you decide to resell.

We are selling our BLT in about 5 years, hopefully at the same buy-in price (but no guarantee of course). Lots of variables. If it were primarily a financial decision, we would be staying at value or offsite every single time-- or not going on vacation to save money....

 

[Dean]

All of the above calculations are assuming no, or proportionally, residual value of the property should you decide to resell.

We are selling our BLT in about 5 years, hopefully at the same buy-in price (but no guarantee of course). Lots of variables. If it were primarily a financial decision, we would be staying at value or offsite every single time-- or not going on vacation to save money....

No, they're assuming the life of the RTU and there is no residual value.

 

[Oozma_Kappa]

No, they're assuming the life of the RTU and there is no residual value.

Right, I would never buy into this thinking I could even remotely break even. This would be bought with the idea of keeping it until it expires (which I think I would be in my 70's so it's possible) and is worth 0 at the end.

 

[Oozma_Kappa]

Here's the way to think about it. Assume you had a windfall of exactly the amount of the purchase price and would get an additional yearly amount equal to the amount of the dues but indexed for inflation. You then had to plan to use that money alone for the accommodations over the time frame in question, basically the RTU in question. You then run that against the cost and inflation assumptions for the cash option. You then have to decide how to invest those dollars. Since I don't plan to do formal investing for money I'm going to use short term (say 4 years or less), I'm just going to park that portion in a money market account getting 1% if I'm lucky. But I'm going to formally invest the rest in mutual funds and I'm going to assume 8% after taxes there which I see as conservative. Over time you'll draw down first the MM funds then the invested funds and ad the yearly dues amount to the pot. Whether you'll use it all and when depends on the variables. When you compare that to cash either for renting DVC from a member or to what you would have likely stayed at not owning DVC, money that runs out well before the end means DVC would have been better, money left over means that not buying DVC would have been better financially speaking. When I did that I used 120 SSR points resale at $80 a point, current dues and PO riverside for a week at $215 per night after discount and after taxes (trying to compare general like for like). With those assumptions DVC will come out ahead by about $25K over 40 years but you'll have more safety and more control by using cash.

Safety and control by using cash is exactly why it took us 7 years to start thinking seriously about it. $25k is not as much as I thought, but I'm using 3 studios and 10 nights for my comparison. We are about 8 hours drive away, so I see us buying more points in the future which would equal more savings... Ok, I use this term loosely. Plus I plan to use them at Aulani since we love Hawaii. That wouldn't be savings compared to where we normally stay, but as we get older and incomes rise tastes change. I'm also taking that into account.
So back to the original comparison, which probably isn't necessary anymore since I'm pretty much sold as long as I can stay there once before taking the plunge, but I love spreadsheets...
I need to look at the formulas first, but from what you're saying I inflate the lump sum AND the dues at 8% compounded (I'd feel safer at 6-7%, blue chip stocks, small/mid cap, real estate, few bonds, and a market that probably won't be too great within the next few years...which makes me wonder, I thought you were using 8% and 1%), then subtract what I would spend in my comparable hotel of PO FQ $175 runner discount in 2015, 12.5% tax, with an annual escalation rate of what? 4%? It is disney after all. Oh wow, I bet I'd break even. The only thing I'm counting on it that Disney's history of price increases is going to negate my rate of return if I invested, and they stop giving runner discounts. My first year running we got a free park ticket!

 

[Oozma_Kappa]

If it were primarily a financial decision, we would be staying at value or offsite every single time-- or not going on vacation to save money....

Lol that would be the easy way out! We have the money to vacation at Disney. If we didn't we'd be going to some beach an hour away. There have been times when I thought we should get deluxe, but that's not us. We went to Sandals once in Nassau for 7 nights and got this villa with a butler. We both agreed we didn't like the butler, because it was weird having someone do everything for us. We would have been just as happy, and actually would have preferred a room in the high rise. I'm also a spreadsheet person, and I love evaluating the numbers, so I'm really enjoying picking people's brain on the topic.

 

[Oozma_Kappa]

Also, is it easier to go through the rental board here to rent points or through a site I saw mentioned called David's? I've never rented points before. Thanks!

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

Safety and control by using cash is exactly why it took us 7 years to start thinking seriously about it. $25k is not as much as I thought, but I'm using 3 studios and 10 nights for my comparison. We are about 8 hours drive away, so I see us buying more points in the future which would equal more savings... Ok, I use this term loosely. Plus I plan to use them at Aulani since we love Hawaii. That wouldn't be savings compared to where we normally stay, but as we get older and incomes rise tastes change. I'm also taking that into account.
So back to the original comparison, which probably isn't necessary anymore since I'm pretty much sold as long as I can stay there once before taking the plunge, but I love spreadsheets...
I need to look at the formulas first, but from what you're saying I inflate the lump sum AND the dues at 8% compounded (I'd feel safer at 6-7%, blue chip stocks, small/mid cap, real estate, few bonds, and a market that probably won't be too great within the next few years...which makes me wonder, I thought you were using 8% and 1%), then subtract what I would spend in my comparable hotel of PO FQ $175 runner discount in 2015, 12.5% tax, with an annual escalation rate of what? 4%? It is disney after all. Oh wow, I bet I'd break even. The only thing I'm counting on it that Disney's history of price increases is going to negate my rate of return if I invested, and they stop giving runner discounts. My first year running we got a free park ticket!

Alright, so I've updated the spreadsheet. I think it's correct, anyone feel free to correct me if you see a problem.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FdinzJG3G5002eJT71wkBObCj31F0jmCJmM_szQzj3Q/edit?usp=sharing

Updated numbers for SSR:

Total cost of SSR = $132,110
Total cost of Hotels = $249,471 (of note, I did not include any taxes. The $170 per night is "out the door" price so to speak)
Value of investing = $74,206 in favor of DVC surprisingly.
Cost savings of SSR over Hotels over life of contract (not including investment) = $117,361 (SSR better)
Cost savings of SSR over Hotels (including investments) = $191,567 (SSR better)

However, since you're already sold on SSR, why not try to entice you with something else? I've added Grand Floridian and Bay Lake Towers on there too. Same assumptions as the SSR, however VGF is $155 per point, BLT is $120 per point. Annual Dues and length of contract changed as appropriate for each individual resort. VGF and BLT studios also cost more points, so require larger contracts.

VGF (250 points):
Total cost of VGF = $247,796.93
Total cost of Hotels = $ 347,084 (of note, I did not include any taxes. The $170 per night is "out the door" price so to speak)
Value of investing = $142,039.81 in favor of Hotels
Cost savings of VGF over Hotels over life of contract (not including investment) = $99,287.36 (VGF better)
Cost savings of Hotels over VGF (including investments) = $42,752.45 (hotels better)

BLT (220 points):
Total cost of BLT = $ 167,598
Total cost of Hotels = $ 288,050 (of note, I did not include any taxes. The $170 per night is "out the door" price so to speak)
Value of investing = $19,907.23 in favor of DVC
Cost savings of BLT over Hotels over life of contract (not including investment) = $120,452.21 (BLT better)
Cost savings of BLT over Hotels (including investments) = $140,359.44 (BLT better)


VGF can't compete with $170 hotel rooms unfortunately, though of course VGF and POR are not quite the same class of resort. If you ignore the whole investment aspect, however, VGF is still a bit ahead.
BLT still comes out favorably, though BLT studios are supposedly quite small (I've never been in one).

Feel free to let me know if you have any questions, or if you have any corrections.

Edit: sorry, more mistakes. BLT and VGF numbers updated.

 

[Oozma_Kappa]

Alright, so I've updated the spreadsheet. I think it's correct, anyone feel free to correct me if you see a problem.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FdinzJG3G5002eJT71wkBObCj31F0jmCJmM_szQzj3Q/edit?usp=sharing

Updated numbers for SSR:

Total cost of SSR = $132,110
Total cost of Hotels = $249,471 (of note, I did not include any taxes. The $170 per night is "out the door" price so to speak)
Value of investing = $74,206 in favor of DVC surprisingly.
Cost savings of SSR over Hotels over life of contract (not including investment) = $117,361 (SSR better)
Cost savings of SSR over Hotels (including investments) = $191,567 (SSR better)

However, since you're already sold on SSR, why not try to entice you with something else? I've added Grand Floridian and Bay Lake Towers on there too. Same assumptions as the SSR, however VGF is $155 per point, BLT is $120 per point. Annual Dues and length of contract changed as appropriate for each individual resort. VGF and BLT studios also cost more points, so require larger contracts.

VGF (250 points):
Total cost of VGF = $189,229.77
Total cost of Hotels = $249,470.64 (of note, I did not include any taxes. The $170 per night is "out the door" price so to speak)
Value of investing = $122,655.14 in favor of Hotels
Cost savings of VGF over Hotels over life of contract (not including investment) = $60,241 (VGF better)
Cost savings of VGF over Hotels (including investments) = -62,414 (hotels better)

BLT (220 points):
Total cost of BLT = $148,768.44
Total cost of Hotels = $249,470.64 (of note, I did not include any taxes. The $170 per night is "out the door" price so to speak)
Value of investing = $2,640.36 in favor of DVC
Cost savings of BLT over Hotels over life of contract (not including investment) = $100,702 (BLT better)
Cost savings of VGF over Hotels (including investments) = $103,342 (BLT better)


VGF can't compete with $170 hotel rooms unfortunately, though of course VGF and POR are not quite the same class of resort. If you ignore the whole investment aspect, however, VGF is still a bit ahead.
BLT still comes out favorably, though BLT studios are supposedly quite small (I've never been in one).

Feel free to let me know if you have any questions, or if you have any corrections.

Ooh, thank you, thank you, thank you! I will look at this tomorrow night! Just looking at the bottom line knowing me I'd pick the best deal, SSR, but this is before experiencing any of them. BLT I've read here has a nice member's bar, so they would have to let us up there to check it out before any decisions are made.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

Ooh, thank you, thank you, thank you! I will look at this tomorrow night! Just looking at the bottom line knowing me I'd pick the best deal, SSR, but this is before experiencing any of them. BLT I've read here has a nice member's bar, so they would have to let us up there to check it out before any decisions are made.

No problem! Just a note, I made some mistakes so I updated the numbers. Should be right now.

If you don't have any experience with Google Docs, I would recommend creating a Google/Gmail account. Then, if you open my spreadsheet, you can just make a copy into your Google Docs account, then you can edit it and play with the numbers however you see fit.

 

[Dean]

Safety and control by using cash is exactly why it took us 7 years to start thinking seriously about it. $25k is not as much as I thought, but I'm using 3 studios and 10 nights for my comparison. We are about 8 hours drive away, so I see us buying more points in the future which would equal more savings... Ok, I use this term loosely. Plus I plan to use them at Aulani since we love Hawaii. That wouldn't be savings compared to where we normally stay, but as we get older and incomes rise tastes change. I'm also taking that into account.
So back to the original comparison, which probably isn't necessary anymore since I'm pretty much sold as long as I can stay there once before taking the plunge, but I love spreadsheets...
I need to look at the formulas first, but from what you're saying I inflate the lump sum AND the dues at 8% compounded (I'd feel safer at 6-7%, blue chip stocks, small/mid cap, real estate, few bonds, and a market that probably won't be too great within the next few years...which makes me wonder, I thought you were using 8% and 1%), then subtract what I would spend in my comparable hotel of PO FQ $175 runner discount in 2015, 12.5% tax, with an annual escalation rate of what? 4%? It is disney after all. Oh wow, I bet I'd break even. The only thing I'm counting on it that Disney's history of price increases is going to negate my rate of return if I invested, and they stop giving runner discounts. My first year running we got a free park ticket!

I use 8% for half and 1% for half, short term and long terms dollars/investments. $25K is using the assumptions I used taking a roughly median PO villa with a 20% discount plus taxes and 120 points, $80 PP at SSR. I didn't add closing just to keep it clean. Just triple all the numbers for 3 studios or 2.5 times the total for SSR for a 2 BR compared to 2 rooms on cash. Obviously every variable change will alter the numbers, you're really only looking for a ballpark. IMO anyone and everyone is foolish not to run the numbers to get an idea of the lay of the land. But then you've got to look at all the other variables including the ones specific to you that none of us could know. Even if DVC doesn't save money, it often gives additional value compared to a moderate and it does lock in part of the cost but also obligate you for a long time commitment. SSR is a great comparison because it's more moderate in some ways than most of the other DVC resorts and it is the cheapest overall over the length of the RTU.

 

[Supplanter]

I use 8% for half and 1% for half, short term and long terms dollars/investments. $25K is using the assumptions I used taking a roughly median PO villa with a 20% discount plus taxes and 120 points, $80 PP at SSR. I didn't add closing just to keep it clean. Just triple all the numbers for 3 studios or 2.5 times the total for SSR for a 2 BR compared to 2 rooms on cash. Obviously every variable change will alter the numbers, you're really only looking for a ballpark. IMO anyone and everyone is foolish not to run the numbers to get an idea of the lay of the land. But then you've got to look at all the other variables including the ones specific to you that none of us could know. Even if DVC doesn't save money, it often gives additional value compared to a moderate and it does lock in part of the cost but also obligate you for a long time commitment. SSR is a great comparison because it's more moderate in some ways than most of the other DVC resorts and it is the cheapest overall over the length of the RTU.

Just curious, I haven't been to Disney world but we've discussed going this fall and assuming Disney doesn't take them, we'll have 300 points to use at ssr... Whats wrong with ssr that you consider it more of a moderate hotel? I understand it's far from the theme parks, but your comment makes me wonder if there there's something else?