~Change of Heart about FP+ & Magic Bands~

[DRDISNEYMD]

One potential issue with charging extra in true pos rather than embedding costs - when ceo sent letter to congress (in response to inquiry regarding privacy issues) expressly stating they would not charge, or words to that effect. It is true his language probably left enough wiggle room to charge for enhanced fp plus or something (and maybe to charge if offsite guests want), and obviously people can change their minds, etc, but I assume for initial full rollout will probably not want to openly flout congress. It would be particularly super if onsite continue to be able to double dip, so to speak, but that is likely not the case (although maybe disney is seeing that this can work, at least for onsite guests) - if that happens, rooms may jump even higher - although at a certain point, they may be pushing into four seasons prices, which may even be intentional.

~Hi EagleScout! I remember the whole congress inquiry thing -- I thought it centered primarily around child privacy laws and marketing toward small children. Anyway, Disney could charge for this and I don't think it would be a big deal if the regular fp remained an option. All of the other amusement parks sell their version of Fast Pass for a premium so it wouldn't be any different for Disney. With that said, I think everyone should have an opportunity to use or purchase MB/FP+. I don't know, it just seems so ambitious for Disney to convince "everyone" to get on board.

~On the other hand, I couldn't believe all of the people who loved using the bands and FP+! So maybe Disney doesn't have to do as much "convincing" as I initially thought. I love using FP+ & MagicBands!!!

 

[kay1864]

So will fp+ be for onsite guests only? Tied to your hotel room? Or tied to your tickets and for everyone? Just curious... don't know if I care either way.

Per the Disney FAQ, FastPass+ will be for everyone with a ticket.

 

[rotlex]

Personally, I think all theme\amusement parks are getting out of hand with the FP\front of line pass systems. Basically, it's like your paying an exorbitant amount of money just to walk through the gates, and then, if you actually want to ride anything without waiting 3 hours, you have to pay some more. I for one hope Disney keeps it free for all as it is now.

Well, actually, I wish they would drop the whole system entirely and allow the ride Q's to function as they were designed and move people efficiently, but that's another discussion.

 

[ParrotBill]

Universal's system may have to be re-evaluated as they add more on-site resorts. On newer/popular rides, our wait was about 15 minutes and inconsistent about when/how many express pass people were admitted at a time... while at others all express people were ushered right in. And to buy the express pass, for those not staying.. have you priced it? Add 50% to your ticket price!

I am trying to be optimistic about FP+, but the need to reserve in advance will definitely take away flexibility, spontaneity, and the desire to park hop.

What I do NOT want to see:
- A need to log in at 5am at the 60 day mark so I can even GET a Toy Story Mania Fastpass - and all the good rides running out if you fail to log in each day
- Please, no 60 day +10 window timed to your start reservation date. That's how everyone gobbles up BOG ADRs so that I cannot get one at all with my 5 day reservation
- 50,000 people trying to connect at once in MDE at 9am for same-day fastpasses

 

[LucyBC80]

Universal's system may have to be re-evaluated as they add more on-site resorts. On newer/popular rides, our wait was about 15 minutes and inconsistent about when/how many express pass people were admitted at a time... while at others all express people were ushered right in. And to buy the express pass, for those not staying.. have you priced it? Add 50% to your ticket price!

I am trying to be optimistic about FP+, but the need to reserve in advance will definitely take away flexibility, spontaneity, and the desire to park hop.

What I do NOT want to see:
- A need to log in at 5am at the 60 day mark so I can even GET a Toy Story Mania Fastpass - and all the good rides running out if you fail to log in each day
- Please, no 60 day +10 window timed to your start reservation date. That's how everyone gobbles up BOG ADRs so that I cannot get one at all with my 5 day reservation
- 50,000 people trying to connect at once in MDE at 9am for same-day fastpasses

Universal is adding a new "value" resort, Cabana Bay, which won't offer Express Pass. So They are taking re-evaluating the system. You stay deluxe (Royal Pacific, Hard Rock, Portofino) you get free early admission to IoA (and US when they see needed) and Express Pass for the duration of your stay. If you stay Value, you only get early admission.

I might be the only one who actually voices a contrary opinion here and go on and flame me if you want but...

I do agree with Universal's practice and I would LOVE if Disney would do the same, offering more FP+ slots for Deluxes, a few less for Moderates (which would include me) and the standard 3 fp+ for Values while offering the option to upgrade for a fee for both mods and value. AND CHARGE for all offsite visitors. Yes, Disney has said FP+ is available for everyone with a ticket but they didn't say it would be available for free. It should be a perk for those of us staying onsite because we do pay way more than anyone staying offsite. EMH are a bust, specially evening EMH. They are full of offsite guests trying to guilt-trip CMs into letting they ride and moaning they paid for a ticket and they should be able to ride whatever and whenever they wanted.

There, you can throw that brick now.

 

[Spoiledraf]

Seems to me creating a tiered system for the rides would be a bad idea. May as well all go out and find someone with a handicapped card to go to the front of the line. Oh wait...they are doing away with that! Wonder why??? Because they are trying to create a level opportunity to ALL visitors, not just those who can pony up an extra $100, $200 $300 bucks for the week. Come on people. Are we all paying for the change? Of course. But the end result will hopefully be a better experience for everybody. Why make it for a select group who can afford it? JMO

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

I do wish they could give a bit more to onsite guests... 1 hour in the morning w/ thousands of other onsite guests, all in one park, just isn't worth it anymore. Anyone, meaning off site guests, can and do use the transportation, so it's not like that's really an onsite perk.

btw, the fp+ system is pure genius!! I can't believe I can now stroll into a park at whatever time and know I'm getting on 3 of my fav rides! The first few years toy story was open, we couldn't get on it, because the fast passes for the day were gone by 9:30am (yes, we should have been at rope drop at 9am, but we weren't). That was the start of my dh getting very fed up w/ disney and pushing to not go there anymore.

So will fp+ be for onsite guests only? Tied to your hotel room? Or tied to your tickets and for everyone? Just curious... don't know if I care either way.

~Hi bellebud! Fabulous post, I don't know how I missed this one! I completely agree with everything you've said. I've noticed since Disney successfully implemented Magical Express, they've cut back on incentives for onsite guests -- it could be pure coincidence but you never know. And, you made an excellent point regarding TSM! Our vacation was so much more enjoyable and relaxed by not having to chase down FP's with no choice of a return time!

~Honestly, before the time enforcement, we would pull FP's whether we wanted to use them or not, just in case and every trip we would spread pixie by giving a substantial number of unused FP's away! FP+ and the time enforcement eliminates this common practice, freeing up boatloads of FP's for families who can actually use them as intended! Anyway, I'm so glad your DH will finally be able to get some much deserved rest on vacation!

Per the Disney FAQ, FastPass+ will be for everyone with a ticket.

~Hi kay1864! Thanks so much for catching that fabulous question and agreed!

Universal's system may have to be re-evaluated as they add more on-site resorts. On newer/popular rides, our wait was about 15 minutes and inconsistent about when/how many express pass people were admitted at a time... while at others all express people were ushered right in. And to buy the express pass, for those not staying.. have you priced it? Add 50% to your ticket price!

I am trying to be optimistic about FP+, but the need to reserve in advance will definitely take away flexibility, spontaneity, and the desire to park hop.

What I do NOT want to see:
- A need to log in at 5am at the 60 day mark so I can even GET a Toy Story Mania Fastpass - and all the good rides running out if you fail to log in each day
- Please, no 60 day +10 window timed to your start reservation date. That's how everyone gobbles up BOG ADRs so that I cannot get one at all with my 5 day reservation
- 50,000 people trying to connect at once in MDE at 9am for same-day fastpasses

~Hi ParrotBill! Great comment! FP+ removes the need to chase down Fastpasses, this frees up boatloads of time to tour the parks exactly how you want to tour -- collecting FP after FP is quite time consuming, we were able to see & accomplish more. I haven't purchased park hoppers in years and now I may reconsider this as an option because we can rope drop a park in the morning and use FP+ in the evening park.

~Also, if given the option, I would much prefer to wake up at 5AM from the comfort of home and take just a few seconds to reserve a fastpass for TSM for a time that compliments my touring plans than engage in the "running of bulls" tradition at DHS just for a TSM fastpass with no opportunity to select a return time. I do share your concern about the new system being overwhelmed but I'm sure Disney will be prepared and can handle it. I expect there will be some drawbacks but the old system had its fair share of drawbacks, as well.

~Anyway, I hope you remain "cautiously optimistic" -- because I'm willing to bet you will love the new system if you give it a chance!

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Personally, I think all theme\amusement parks are getting out of hand with the FP\front of line pass systems. Basically, it's like your paying an exorbitant amount of money just to walk through the gates, and then, if you actually want to ride anything without waiting 3 hours, you have to pay some more. I for one hope Disney keeps it free for all as it is now.

Well, actually, I wish they would drop the whole system entirely and allow the ride Q's to function as they were designed and move people efficiently, but that's another discussion.

~Hi rotlex! Nice comment! I have to agree with this to an extent. I think Disney should keep basic fastpass free for everyone but maybe offer more options for a premium.

Universal is adding a new "value" resort, Cabana Bay, which won't offer Express Pass. So They are taking re-evaluating the system. You stay deluxe (Royal Pacific, Hard Rock, Portofino) you get free early admission to IoA (and US when they see needed) and Express Pass for the duration of your stay. If you stay Value, you only get early admission.

I might be the only one who actually voices a contrary opinion here and go on and flame me if you want but...

I do agree with Universal's practice and I would LOVE if Disney would do the same, offering more FP+ slots for Deluxes, a few less for Moderates (which would include me) and the standard 3 fp+ for Values while offering the option to upgrade for a fee for both mods and value. AND CHARGE for all offsite visitors. Yes, Disney has said FP+ is available for everyone with a ticket but they didn't say it would be available for free. It should be a perk for those of us staying onsite because we do pay way more than anyone staying offsite. EMH are a bust, specially evening EMH. They are full of offsite guests trying to guilt-trip CMs into letting they ride and moaning they paid for a ticket and they should be able to ride whatever and whenever they wanted.

There, you can throw that brick now.

~Hi LucyBC80! LOL, no bricks from me that was an awesome comment! It is interesting how Universal's new resort will *not* have "Front of the Line" access. Anyway, the hotel looks like an upscale Pop Century, very cute.

~What you've just mention is the controversial caste system or tier system being applied to FP and I just don't like this, it seems wrong given that FP's have always been free. I would like for Disney to establish a platform where Fastpass remains free and equally accessible to everyone -- with the option to upgrade if you're willing to pay more.

Seems to me creating a tiered system for the rides would be a bad idea. May as well all go out and find someone with a handicapped card to go to the front of the line. Oh wait...they are doing away with that! Wonder why??? Because they are trying to create a level opportunity to ALL visitors, not just those who can pony up an extra $100, $200 $300 bucks for the week. Come on people. Are we all paying for the change? Of course. But the end result will hopefully be a better experience for everybody. Why make it for a select group who can afford it? JMO

~Hi Spoiledraf! Great comment! You've made an excellent point regarding those people who've exercised unorthodox or flat out criminal measures to access the front of the line at Disney. As shady as the practice "was" -- it reflects a market in demand -- unfortunately it's one that Disney can't or won't accommodate at this time.

 

[PEC]

I am not a Disney accountant nor do I pretend to be one but if I'm correct the bands can be used on multiple trips which in the long run can save Disney money. Even paper tickets cost money. Over time getting a new ticket over time multiplied by all guest doing this cost Disney money. You would be surprised but an old Disney ticket was probably .25 cents or so each. The new system alleviates that and is a one time cost. Part of the new technology was just staying with the times. Bottomline if Disney never put Wifi out there other parks would and they would watch crowd sizes shrink. Also keep in mind this promotes staying at the park. 5-10% increase in on-park visitors more than pays for the expenses hands down. Think about it what is the purpose of the fingerprint entry? To ensure somebody doesn't give their ticket to somebody else. That way if all days are not used somebody could not give it to another person. that means the other person would have to pay. Always keep in mind there are different ways to add to your bottomline without a price increase.
Now with all that said yes the price has gone up significantly. Surprisingly I think that is more a supply vs demand issue than a capital expenditure (new rides, new technology issue). I know somebody will counter with the added expense of more for a one day MK ticket but despite what Disney says it is a well known fact MK is the most visited park and is likely the one park somebody would go to for one day.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

I am not a Disney accountant nor do I pretend to be one but if I'm correct the bands can be used on multiple trips which in the long run can save Disney money. Even paper tickets cost money. Over time getting a new ticket over time multiplied by all guest doing this cost Disney money. You would be surprised but an old Disney ticket was probably .25 cents or so each. The new system alleviates that and is a one time cost. Part of the new technology was just staying with the times. Bottomline if Disney never put Wifi out there other parks would and they would watch crowd sizes shrink. Also keep in mind this promotes staying at the park. 5-10% increase in on-park visitors more than pays for the expenses hands down. Think about it what is the purpose of the fingerprint entry? To ensure somebody doesn't give their ticket to somebody else. That way if all days are not used somebody could not give it to another person. that means the other person would have to pay. Always keep in mind there are different ways to add to your bottomline without a price increase.
Now with all that said yes the price has gone up significantly. Surprisingly I think that is more a supply vs demand issue than a capital expenditure (new rides, new technology issue). I know somebody will counter with the added expense of more for a one day MK ticket but despite what Disney says it is a well known fact MK is the most visited park and is likely the one park somebody would go to for one day.

~Hi PEC! Great comment! I totally agree that Disney will make and save money with this but they can also find a way to monetize MB/FP+ to offer even more options, there is definitely demand for it.

 

[gorkt]

This system is a pure win/win for Disney. They are planning on making tons of money off it and there is no need to charge for it at all.

1) People commit to being in the park months in advance so Disney can use that data to optimize employees and supplies for the day. That saves Disney money.

2) Disney (and most other theme parks) hates the fact that there are lines almost as much as you do. People in lines aren't buying food or trinkets. People in lines aren't making great memories and are less likely to return.

3) This system is just the natural evolution of being able to do things that weren't possible before a large segment of the population had computers, especially mobile ones that fit in their pockets. This is the way all theme parks are going to move in the future. If you can virtually queue, then all physical lines are almost completely unnecessary.

4) On a personal level, I LOVE that on my upcoming trip, I don't have to worry about getting up extra early to ride certain rides. I AM concerned that all the other rides are going to be more crowded, and I am also concerned about general park congestion which has increased over the years due to regular Fastpass. The people that aren't waiting in lines have to go somewhere. If I were Disney, I would think about adding more sitting areas, restaurant space, and just more breathing room in general otherwise this could backfire.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

This system is a pure win/win for Disney. They are planning on making tons of money off it and there is no need to charge for it at all.

1) People commit to being in the park months in advance so Disney can use that data to optimize employees and supplies for the day. That saves Disney money.

2) Disney (and most other theme parks) hates the fact that there are lines almost as much as you do. People in lines aren't buying food or trinkets. People in lines aren't making great memories and are less likely to return.

3) This system is just the natural evolution of being able to do things that weren't possible before a large segment of the population had computers, especially mobile ones that fit in their pockets. This is the way all theme parks are going to move in the future. If you can virtually queue, then all physical lines are almost completely unnecessary.

4) On a personal level, I LOVE that on my upcoming trip, I don't have to worry about getting up extra early to ride certain rides. I AM concerned that all the other rides are going to be more crowded, and I am also concerned about general park congestion which has increased over the years due to regular Fastpass. The people that aren't waiting in lines have to go somewhere. If I were Disney, I would think about adding more sitting areas, restaurant space, and just more breathing room in general otherwise this could backfire.

~Hi gorkt! Fabulous comment! I couldn't agree more! But, I still wouldn't mind if Disney decided to monetize FP+. I'm glad you've touched on the "lines" because one thing I observed at WDW was very long standby lines and completely empty Fast Pass lines, specifically in the evening -- something was very wrong there. Which is why we used to run around all day collecting and hoarding FP's to use in the evening and we always gave unused FP's away. Anyway, I am so happy we won't have to be bothered with that anymore!

 

[ParrotBill]

Universal is adding a new "value" resort, Cabana Bay, which won't offer Express Pass. So They are taking re-evaluating the system. You stay deluxe (Royal Pacific, Hard Rock, Portofino) you get free early admission to IoA (and US when they see needed) and Express Pass for the duration of your stay. If you stay Value, you only get early admission.

I might be the only one who actually voices a contrary opinion here and go on and flame me if you want but...

I do agree with Universal's practice and I would LOVE if Disney would do the same, offering more FP+ slots for Deluxes, a few less for Moderates (which would include me) and the standard 3 fp+ for Values while offering the option to upgrade for a fee for both mods and value. AND CHARGE for all offsite visitors. Yes, Disney has said FP+ is available for everyone with a ticket but they didn't say it would be available for free. It should be a perk for those of us staying onsite because we do pay way more than anyone staying offsite. EMH are a bust, specially evening EMH. They are full of offsite guests trying to guilt-trip CMs into letting they ride and moaning they paid for a ticket and they should be able to ride whatever and whenever they wanted.

There, you can throw that brick now.

No brick from me.... I did not realize the new resort at Universal would not include Express Pass, so that makes sense - the experience is preserved for the high end places. I have thought for a long time that Disney needs to offer more to justify the prices at the Deluxe hotels than a slightly nicer room and pool and the opportunity to spend even more money at fancier restaurants.

And I have no objection to charging for FP+ for offsite... but that will certainly be controversial. I don't think a lot of people consider EMH a great benefit... many hate to get up that early and late hours aren't offered as much.

 

[Sparkly]

A refreshing board indeed after everyone whining about FP+ & Magic Bands.

I myself like the sound of both. FP+ will be awesome for taking a afternoon break and returning to the park with the guarantee that you'll be able to get on three rides of your choosing without having to wait in standby. Magic Bands will be awesome for having everything like your room key, tickets, dining etc all on one band. No losing a KTTW card or having to fish it out of your bag to pay for stuff or get into your room if you have your hands full.

 

[Nebraska_Disney]

The kicker, IMO, is how long they keep the "legacy" fast pass system going. The initial idea was that it was going to go away once FP+ came on board.....

So, the idea of being limited to 3 fast passes in a day, at a single park, really is not something I like. I am one of those people who run around getting fast passes (now) to utilize our park time. Now, I have to collect everyone's bands to do that until the machines go away.

This is almost like reverting back to the A,B,C,D,E ticket days, only electronically.

Right now, I like that I can "work" the current FP legacy system to get way more than 3 FP's in a day, and at multiple parks if I choose to hop. With FP+, I see less benefit to park hopping.

 

[rastuso]

This system is a pure win/win for Disney. They are planning on making tons of money off it and there is no need to charge for it at all.

1) People commit to being in the park months in advance so Disney can use that data to optimize employees and supplies for the day. That saves Disney money.

2) Disney (and most other theme parks) hates the fact that there are lines almost as much as you do. People in lines aren't buying food or trinkets. People in lines aren't making great memories and are less likely to return.

3) This system is just the natural evolution of being able to do things that weren't possible before a large segment of the population had computers, especially mobile ones that fit in their pockets. This is the way all theme parks are going to move in the future. If you can virtually queue, then all physical lines are almost completely unnecessary.

4) On a personal level, I LOVE that on my upcoming trip, I don't have to worry about getting up extra early to ride certain rides. I AM concerned that all the other rides are going to be more crowded, and I am also concerned about general park congestion which has increased over the years due to regular Fastpass. The people that aren't waiting in lines have to go somewhere. If I were Disney, I would think about adding more sitting areas, restaurant space, and just more breathing room in general otherwise this could backfire.

I would be shocked if FP leads to CM staffing changes. WDW has over 40 years of attendance data. They know how many people will be there. If something slightly strange happens, they aren't going to destaff 30 people some day, especially with park hoppers. And if they do, they will simply be using FP+ as a scapegoat for lower staffing levels.

FP+ won't impact lines much. The AVERAGE number of FPs per guest won't change. The standard deviation, however, will plummet.

And I'm continuing to be amazed at how folks think these tests have anything to do with the reality of full FP+ rollout.

PT Barnum was definitely right.

Jason

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

No brick from me.... I did not realize the new resort at Universal would not include Express Pass, so that makes sense - the experience is preserved for the high end places. I have thought for a long time that Disney needs to offer more to justify the prices at the Deluxe hotels than a slightly nicer room and pool and the opportunity to spend even more money at fancier restaurants.

And I have no objection to charging for FP+ for offsite... but that will certainly be controversial. I don't think a lot of people consider EMH a great benefit... many hate to get up that early and late hours aren't offered as much.

~As usual, great comment! I don't think Disney will charge for offsite. But, I can see them charging guests who don't purchase directly from Disney. Of course, this could cause some issues between Disney and the ticket vendors!

A refreshing board indeed after everyone whining about FP+ & Magic Bands.

I myself like the sound of both. FP+ will be awesome for taking a afternoon break and returning to the park with the guarantee that you'll be able to get on three rides of your choosing without having to wait in standby. Magic Bands will be awesome for having everything like your room key, tickets, dining etc all on one band. No losing a KTTW card or having to fish it out of your bag to pay for stuff or get into your room if you have your hands full.

~Hi Sparkly!!! OMG, I *love* your username!!! This is a fabulous comment, I couldn't agree more! I'm so glad you posted, your comment is refreshing, too! And you've made my (late night into the next) day by sharing your fabulous perspective! Thanks!

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

The kicker, IMO, is how long they keep the "legacy" fast pass system going. The initial idea was that it was going to go away once FP+ came on board.....

So, the idea of being limited to 3 fast passes in a day, at a single park, really is not something I like. I am one of those people who run around getting fast passes (now) to utilize our park time. Now, I have to collect everyone's bands to do that until the machines go away.

This is almost like reverting back to the A,B,C,D,E ticket days, only electronically.

Right now, I like that I can "work" the current FP legacy system to get way more than 3 FP's in a day, and at multiple parks if I choose to hop. With FP+, I see less benefit to park hopping.

~Hi Nebraska_Disney! Great comment! With the legacy fp system, park hopping was not ideal for us and we haven't purchased them in years because most FP's used to run out by mid day. The main reason we collected and hoarded FP's in the first place was to use them later at night. With FP+ plus, I may reconsider purchasing park hoppers again! We can enjoy early mornings at one park and not worry about having FP's for the evening park! I understand some people prefer the old Fastpass, which is why I think Disney should keep this open for them, and offer incentives and make MDE exclusively for those of us who plan to utilize FP+/Magicbands.

I would be shocked if FP leads to CM staffing changes. WDW has over 40 years of attendance data. They know how many people will be there. If something slightly strange happens, they aren't going to destaff 30 people some day, especially with park hoppers. And if they do, they will simply be using FP+ as a scapegoat for lower staffing levels.

FP+ won't impact lines much. The AVERAGE number of FPs per guest won't change. The standard deviation, however, will plummet.

And I'm continuing to be amazed at how folks think these tests have anything to do with the reality of full FP+ rollout.

PT Barnum was definitely right.

Jason

~Hi rastuso! Fabulous comment and I totally agree! Frankly, I thought all of the lines were great this time, and standby never exceed the posted wait time! I also didn't witness any of the inconsistencies, like I used to in the past -- which was a really long standby and a virutally empty Fast pass line. Now, of course I can't attribute this to any one thing. Just sayin'... But, thanks for sharing your very astute observation!