Class-Action Lawsuit against Disney Parks filed - CORRECTION: not class-action

[Angel Ariel]

I'll quote myself again:


I stand by it. If a child is prone (meaning it's happened before and has a high likelihood of happening again) to having violent meltdowns that the parent can't control and being in a hot, crowded place where they have to wait or not understand they can't ride a ride at that moment triggers such meltdowns, then Disney may not be the right place for them.

I'm not arguing abotu children who are highly violent and have a high likelihood of being violent.

I'm referring to children who are *not* usually violent, have shown they can handle Disney in small doses (say 3-4 hr spurts) - but who can, very occasionally, have a more serious meltdown. The parents are proactive in not keeping their child in the park long, because they understand that a longer time in the park could raise the possibility of the serious meltdown. With the DAS, they may be able to get 3 or 4 rides in during that 3-4 hours (on a good day!).

Do we not have people complaining here every single day about FP+ and how it means they may not reliably be able to experience much more than their 3 pre-booked attractions because they refuse to get in a line that's more than 30 mins? That they aren't getting enough for their money to only be able to count on 3 rides/day?

How is that OK, but saying that a child who has a medical condition that prevents them from being in the park for very long should be able to experience 4-5 attractions in a much shortened day makes me a troll?

 

[sets14]

I haven't disagreed with this. My point is that what may trigger a child one day may not trigger them another. It may not be as simple as "this envrionment always triggers my child, so I won't go there." It could be more like 90% of the time, the environment does NOT trigger them, but 10% of the time it does - but they can't predict when that 10% will happen.



What is equal access? The family I spoke of could only be in the park for 3-4 hours a day. No matter what they do, they do not have equal access to the parks that someone who is in the park for 7-10 (or more) hours will have. Even with the GAC, they didn't have equal opportunity to do what those who could stay in the parks 7+ hours could do...

That's all I was trying to say. I'm certainly not saying they should have absolute FOTL passes, as it seems my posts are being taken. But this is a heated topic, so I'm not surprised my words are being taken that way. I just had a reaction to the idea that these kids just shouldn't be in the park. Again, if that's not how that poster meant it, I apologize, but that's how it came across and what I reacted to.

Again, to be very abundantly clear, I am *not* saying that the DAS should be scrapped for immediate access.

How does anyone have "equal access"? Should I get a pass because my two year old needed a nap and I didn't get to ride space mountain like the family I heard stayed at the park 12 hours and rode it all day? Noone's day is the same, there is no set standard of what should be accomplished in a park visit. The DAS is a tool to help individuals with disabilities explore the parks, no more, no less, no guarentees. Expecting Disney, or any other entertainment venue, to provide the perfect day for anyone is unrealistic. Disney has provided access with modifications. Beyond that, we all (disabled or not) need to remember that we play a big part in the magic and quit looking at the world like it owes us something.

 

[amberpi]

This. This. This.

A thousand times this.

Also, equality does not mean that someone with disabilities gets FOTL access to as many repeat rides on the headliners as they want. Normal guests don't unless they are willing to wait (understandably, if they can't wait in the line, that's FINE and certainly a reasonable accommodation). Guests with disabilities should certainly be given reasonable accommodation but NOT preferrential treatment. Also, if that's harrowing for a child especially, why expose them to that? I don't get it? I have 2 dear friends that can't handle crowds, they don't go places that know are crowded... I have acid relux. I LOVE red wine and coffee, you know what kills? Red wine and coffee so I don't drink them. While its a small thing, the principal of the matter seems to be the same.

And I don't mean that to be mean or ugly, I just don't get putting a kid that could be so upset through it, even for WDW (which I adore) when they might be able to really enjoy a beach or museum or any other kind of trip more. I have loads of compassion for any kid that is crying and far over tired and just DONE/over stimulated, etc. and their parents are still dragging them around the parks, especially the little ones late late at night. To me, it seems the same. If the kids are miserable and throwing a fit seems a good indicator, I just don't get it, I just don't.

 

[amg35]

I'm not arguing abotu children who are highly violent and have a high likelihood of being violent.

If you weren't arguing with me about this (above quote), then why did you quote me in the first place with an argumentative response when (above quote) was exactly what I was talking about?

I've explained myself 3 times now, can't do it again.

 

[JimmyV]

so his parents DO NOT BRING HIM ANYWHERE WHERE THEY CANNOT MITIGATE ONE.

his siblings have never been to Disney,.,or any amusement park because his parents know that it can't be done safely or enjoyably.

Well, that is one way to handle the situation and that is their choice. Another choice is to take a child to the world's most accommodating amusement park where the accommodations provided do not harm or interfere with any other guests. No parent who favors one approach should be forced to choose the other path. I defy anyone to go volunteer at GKTW for a week and then come back and tell us that those kids shouldn't be or don't deserve to be at WDW.

And Lurch, we are talking about cognitive impairment not physical discomfort. You could have requested a GAC. You chose not to. That is fine. But why be so harsh to those that avail themselves of a path that is set before them? They aren't cheating anyone or anything.

 

[morethananyonex]

I haven't disagreed with this. My point is that what may trigger a child one day may not trigger them another. It may not be as simple as "this envrionment always triggers my child, so I won't go there." It could be more like 90% of the time, the environment does NOT trigger them, but 10% of the time it does - but they can't predict when that 10% will happen.



What is equal access? The family I spoke of could only be in the park for 3-4 hours a day. No matter what they do, they do not have equal access to the parks that someone who is in the park for 7-10 (or more) hours will have. Even with the GAC, they didn't have equal opportunity to do what those who could stay in the parks 7+ hours could do...

That's all I was trying to say. I'm certainly not saying they should have absolute FOTL passes, as it seems my posts are being taken. But this is a heated topic, so I'm not surprised my words are being taken that way. I just had a reaction to the idea that these kids just shouldn't be in the park. Again, if that's not how that poster meant it, I apologize, but that's how it came across and what I reacted to.

Again, to be very abundantly clear, I am *not* saying that the DAS should be scrapped for immediate access.

I'm not saying that parents should not take their children somewhere that may trigger a meltdown. I'm saying if the child is prone to violent meltdowns that the parents cannot control, they should not be taken somewhere that is likely to trigger meltdowns because that is unfair to innocent strangers who can be harmed.

Equal access is equal access to the attractions. It's easier to see with a physical disability. As long as Disney provides a method for someone who cannot do stairs to access TSMM for example (a queue with stairs), they are providing equal access to those people. As long as Disney provides an alternative method to waiting in lines for those who cannot wait in lines, they are providing them with equal access. Equal access isn't about seeing as much as another person can. It's unfortunate for your friends that their park time is limited, but equal access is not about finding a way for everybody to see the exact same things, no matter how much time is spent in the parks.

Although I can only speak for myself, I don't think anybody is saying people with disabilities shouldn't be allowed in the parks. I apologize if it comes off that way. What I am saying is if a child or adult is a danger to other people, that is the responsibility of the caregiver entirely, not Disney. I think it's irresponsible to take them somewhere that they are likely to harm others if they cannot control them. By control, I don't mean prevent or stop meltdowns, I mean making sure nobody gets hurt.

 

[brownhaired_girl]

Wow! You must not have a child or family member with a disability. I don't agree with the lawsuit and I am glad wdw has a policy for disabled guests. I do not think that my disabled children's inability to be able to wait in a lengthy line is an issue with the problems in our country. I assure you, what they have had to endure in their short little lives is hardly taking the easy way out. I will gladly wait in lines, heck I would never set foot in wdw again, if I could take away my children's disability.

I would bet any parent who has a child with a disability would agree with you.

 

[Angel Ariel]

:sigh: I didn't say that I thought Disney was responsible for providing the perfect day.

I'm not one who believes in immediate FOTL access for those who are disabled, and that's how I'm being portrayed at the moment, despite having said otherwise.

I just feel for my friend who can no longer have the same Disney experience with her son that she did a year ago. And to be clear - that experience was still nowhere near what an average family would experience. I was coming from a personal, more emotional POV and I will admit that.

I'm honestly sorry I even said anything at this point.

 

[smitch425]

I haven't disagreed with this. My point is that what may trigger a child one day may not trigger them another. It may not be as simple as "this envrionment always triggers my child, so I won't go there." It could be more like 90% of the time, the environment does NOT trigger them, but 10% of the time it does - but they can't predict when that 10% will happen.



What is equal access? The family I spoke of could only be in the park for 3-4 hours a day. No matter what they do, they do not have equal access to the parks that someone who is in the park for 7-10 (or more) hours will have. Even with the GAC, they didn't have equal opportunity to do what those who could stay in the parks 7+ hours could do...

That's all I was trying to say. I'm certainly not saying they should have absolute FOTL passes, as it seems my posts are being taken. But this is a heated topic, so I'm not surprised my words are being taken that way. I just had a reaction to the idea that these kids just shouldn't be in the park. Again, if that's not how that poster meant it, I apologize, but that's how it came across and what I reacted to.

Again, to be very abundantly clear, I am *not* saying that the DAS should be scrapped for immediate access.

But that family who only stays 3 or 4 hours still does so by their own choice. The park is still there and open for their enjoyment. No one can say "I think my kid can only handle 4 hours here, so I need you to give me access to all of the rides that family over there staying for 10 hours will be able to do." You do what you can with the time you have. No one is owed anything special, with the exception of Make A Wish kids. They get immediate access (as they should). And before anyone asks, yes, I have family members with Autism, my husband has had multiple blood clots in his leg and tours with a cane, and my brother died 4 years ago from diabetes complications (was also blind the last few years of his life), so I am well versed in a multitude of debilitating issues. One of my cousins did a MAW trip, but not to Disney. He chose to meet Ozzy Osborne. Lol! He was supposed to go to Disney for his 16th birthday, but he died a few months prior. Life hands you lemons, you make the best lemonade you can with what you've got. Disabled/autistic/elderly (and whatever other issues) people may ride a few less rides overall, but there are still a lot of non-disabled (and disabled for that matter) people that will never be fortunate enough to visit a Disney park in their lifetime. Be glad you are alive, can visit a park, and are able to have equal access. Wanting anything more than that is just selfish, IMHO.

 

[1 DISNEY FAN]

How does anyone have "equal access"? Should I get a pass because my two year old needed a nap and I didn't get to ride space mountain like the family I heard stayed at the park 12 hours and rode it all day? Noone's day is the same, there is no set standard of what should be accomplished in a park visit. The DAS is a tool to help individuals with disabilities explore the parks, no more, no less, no guarentees. Expecting Disney, or any other entertainment venue, to provide the perfect day for anyone is unrealistic. Disney has provided access with modifications. Beyond that, we all (disabled or not) need to remember that we play a big part in the magic and quit looking at the world like it owes us something.

If you want to go on space mountain but your 2 year old is napping you can get a pass called a child swap pass which allows you to swap adults so everyone gets a turn. If a family did ride space mountain for 12 hours with a gac then that is clearly abusing the system and is unfair.

 

[Objectivity]

What is equal access? The family I spoke of could only be in the park for 3-4 hours a day. No matter what they do, they do not have equal access to the parks that someone who is in the park for 7-10 (or more) hours will have. Even with the GAC, they didn't have equal opportunity to do what those who could stay in the parks 7+ hours could do...

That's not Disney's issue to solve. There are people without medical needs who choose to only visit 3-4 hours a day. Disney can't make decisions based on how long each party chooses to stay.

That's all I was trying to say. I'm certainly not saying they should have absolute FOTL passes, as it seems my posts are being taken. But this is a heated topic, so I'm not surprised my words are being taken that way. I just had a reaction to the idea that these kids just shouldn't be in the park. Again, if that's not how that poster meant it, I apologize, but that's how it came across and what I reacted to.

We've traveled to Disney twice in the past 18 months, once with a GAC and once with a DAS. Our perspective is a bit different because our reasons for getting each card are different.

In our first trip, we had a GAC card because my wife is legally blind. She needed one to ensure front seating for shows and occasionally used it for entrance to rides where queues are dark or have a lot of steps.

With the DAS, she no longer qualifies for a card. But, our daughter has since been diagnosed with Auditory Processing issues. It's not a huge issue in a place like Disney, but occasional use of the DAS lets us stretch the time we can enjoy the parks.

Our experience with the DAS was very positive. The system was fair and allowed us to limit our daughter's exposure to noise in areas where it would wear her down over extended periods of time. The DAS eliminated the unintended consequence of shorter line times and replaced it with a fair system.

The downside was the accomodation for my wife's visual impairment issues. Despite public claims that staff were trained to handle disabilities that no longer required a card it was clear that no training had been provided (or it had been minimal and forgotten). At every location we were asked if we had a DAS card and we had to explain to the CM why we didn't need one. At multiple locations we were bounced from CM to CM until one was able to provide assistance. As a result, my wife had to explain her disability and the accommodation many times to many people. She also had to stand firm with several CMs who insisted she didn't qualify for handicapped seating at parades because they couldn't see her wheelchair.


Basically, to sum up, the DAS system is fair. It provides equal access. Those wanting more will be disappointed and those wanting less will never be satisfied. Unfortunately, in an effort to create a solution to the continually increasing volume of autistic guests Disney made changes that result in a less friendly park for those with other non-visible disabilities.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I've explained myself 3 times now, can't do it again.

As have I.

As an observer, if you see a child having a violent moment - how would you know whether that was "highly likely" for that child? You wouldn't. Many people (specifically not saying you), would assume that the parents should have forseen that and just not brought their child to the park in the first place. I was simply trying to point out that there can be scenarios where a child does get violent, where it is NOT a typical reaction for them, and not something the parent can predict.

That's all I was trying to point out. I wasn't trying to bait you, as I've been accused.

 

[brownhaired_girl]

Wow! You must not have a child or family member with a disability. I don't agree with the lawsuit and I am glad wdw has a policy for disabled guests. I do not think that my disabled children's inability to be able to wait in a lengthy line is an issue with the problems in our country. I assure you, what they have had to endure in their short little lives is hardly taking the easy way out. I will gladly wait in lines, heck I would never set foot in wdw again, if I could take away my children's disability.

I would bet any parent who has a child with a disability would agree with you.

 

[Angel Ariel]

No one is owed anything special, with the exception of Make A Wish kids. They get immediate access (as they should).

And again, I did not say at any time that anyone was owed immediate access. (Though I agree that MAW kids are the exception).

 

[smitch425]

And again, I did not say at any time that anyone was owed immediate access. (Though I agree that MAW kids are the exception).

No worries. I knew exactly what you meant from the beginning. I just quoted you to address the family part of your post.

 

[Angel Ariel]

No worries. I knew exactly what you meant from the beginning. I just quoted you to address the family part of your post.

Thanks

 

[DisneyLover1217]

Disney has already stated that it was USE not ABUSE that ended the GAC. I was trying to find the article but I believe they said up to 1,000 GACs were issued a day at DL. Can't remember how many at WDW. They estimated that in the FP line for Radiator Springs, 5,000 people were using a GAC (that's the 1,000, plus family members). So you can imagine the impact the GAC was having on FP times, especially on a popular ride like RS, which caused them to issue less paper FP's to the rest of us.

Disney also stated in the article they didn't believe that most people using the GAC were fakers, but people who actually needed it, the problem is too many needed it from people with autism, to obesity, diabetes, the elderly, etc. The GAC was just unsustainable. Plus the people who needed the GAC were actually abusing it themselves when they rode rides multiple times in a row or just went from ride to ride, something the GAC was never intended for. It was just suppose to help them out every now and again.

I have to laugh when the lawsuit was blaming the people for hiring out disabled to get the GAC. Honestly how many people on a given day were actually doing that, give me a break.

 

[amg35]

Because parents can know beyond a doubt that their child is going to get to that level meltdown on any given day?

I have a friend whose son has autism. They live near Disneyland. It's not like just entering the park makes him have a meltdown. He has had trips that were fine, and then others where there was a meltdown and they had to leave. The GAC allowed them to get a lot done in a shorter amount of time, so as to reduce the potential for overstimulation and meltdown. They'd get to accomplish what they could in a short amount of time - which would still be a LOT less than what a family who could stay in the park from RD to close could do - and it worked very well for their son.

But because he may meltdown (or may not), which the parents can't predict, he shouldn't be at Disney at all? Wow.

This was your first post to me where you quoted me. I found the "Wow" to be if not baiting, then at least passive aggressive.

Again and again I have said I am referring to the parents of a child who is PRONE to violent outbursts and they know what triggers said outbursts, not once have I referred to the type of child you are discussing below.

As have I.

As an observer, if you see a child having a violent moment - how would you know whether that was "highly likely" for that child? You wouldn't. Many people (specifically not saying you), would assume that the parents should have forseen that and just not brought their child to the park in the first place. I was simply trying to point out that there can be scenarios where a child does get violent, where it is NOT a typical reaction for them, and not something the parent can predict.

That's all I was trying to point out. I wasn't trying to bait you, as I've been accused.

In the end I don't want to be accused of keeping this going, so goodnight.

 

[sets14]

If you want to go on space mountain but your 2 year old is napping you can get a pass called a child swap pass which allows you to swap adults so everyone gets a turn. If a family did ride space mountain for 12 hours with a gac then that is clearly abusing the system and is unfair.

1. Not if you are there alone with said 2 year old
2. Not if 2 year old needs nap NOW and there isn't time to get to Space Mt, get rider swap, and have person ride.

I was not referring to a person using a GAC to loop Space Mtn. I was talking generally and making the point that no one has the same day. Disabled, not disabled, old, young,skinny, pooh sized, thrill rider, IASW lover- it seems as if so many have created an expectation of what they "should" get done, rather than going, doing what they can,and looking for the good rather than an entitlement system.

And to be clear, my mother is disabled. She has traveled to Disney under both systems. And would tell you right now she appreciates all Disney does and all the memories she has made there. Is it perfect? No. Do disabilities suck? Yes. But Disney can't fix either of those.

 

[AppleSister1]

If you are using DAS, I'm assuming you can also use FP+, yes? So are you using the DAS when approaching SB lines AND FP+ lines? I'm assuming it's only for SB lines, because it seems what DAS gets you is a return time for FP lines, right? So, if I'm using DAS, I can do more than 3 FP lines a day, but I'm getting a return time and can do something else in the meantime? Just want to understand. I have personal experience with autistic young adults who love Disney and want to make sure I'm clear before I form an opinion.