Class-Action Lawsuit against Disney Parks filed - CORRECTION: not class-action

[mummabear]

One of the best things I have read about this is:
"The heart of the ADA is tailoring the modification to the needs of the guest’s impairment. To be fair, this is not easy to do when federal regulations purport to prohibit Disney from asking a guest meaningful questions about the guest’s impairment - See more at: http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2014/04/04/new-lawsuit-attacks-disneys-new-disability-access-service/#sthash.vSHGvdoa.dpuf"

And that is the heart of the problem-the law. Companies cannot ask for proof of a disability, they cannot ask for information about the disability so they have to create a programme to cover a wide range of disabilities both visible and not, both physical and mental. It needs to accommodate these guest without being too advantageous otherwise it will be abused which disadvantages everyone.

 

[Angel Ariel]

This was your first post to me where you quoted me. I found the "Wow" to be if not baiting, then at least passive aggressive.

i'm sorry you took it that way. It wasn't meant to be baiting. I do my best not to do that, especially here, and I guess I didn't do that well in this instance. It was honestly the only word in my head at that moment. I apologize that it came across as baiting, and I too will end it at this point.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

I feel that the new system is fair but I totally get these families feeling disappointed with the changes. It will change their day and they will get less but I'm not sure the old system was really suppose to be FOTL access. It became that for many for many years. Of course it won't be easy to say goodbye to that even if it isn't the wrong thing for Disney to change it.

 

[twinboysmom]

I would like to apologize if my post sounded harsh. I truly didn't mean that children with autism or who had a disability where "Whiney." I just get very frustrated with the mentality our country seems to have now that everyone deserves everything right now! Does that make sense?

Apology accepted. And in answer to your earlier question, no, I don't think it should be immediate front of the line access (with the exception of make a wish and some of the more severe disabilities like people on home ventilators-and they don't ride the headliners anyway). I said before I don't like the lawsuit and I am happy with the system wdw offers and feel for most guests it is adequate.

 

[bella2117]

But they are waiting in the same line they did before...the Fastpass line. They just can't go from ride to ride and immediately get in the FP line.

exactly what i was thinking. there is no more immediate entrance to the fast pass line as soon as you walk up. So the card is sorta like an infinite fast pass? even when you get in the line there is that chance you have to wait 10 minutes or do they just load you right away?

 

[Jennasis]

I haven't disagreed with this. My point is that what may trigger a child one day may not trigger them another. It may not be as simple as "this envrionment always triggers my child, so I won't go there." It could be more like 90% of the time, the environment does NOT trigger them, but 10% of the time it does - but they can't predict when that 10% will happen.



What is equal access? The family I spoke of could only be in the park for 3-4 hours a day. No matter what they do, they do not have equal access to the parks that someone who is in the park for 7-10 (or more) hours will have. Even with the GAC, they didn't have equal opportunity to do what those who could stay in the parks 7+ hours could do...

That's all I was trying to say. I'm certainly not saying they should have absolute FOTL passes, as it seems my posts are being taken. But this is a heated topic, so I'm not surprised my words are being taken that way. I just had a reaction to the idea that these kids just shouldn't be in the park. Again, if that's not how that poster meant it, I apologize, but that's how it came across and what I reacted to.

Again, to be very abundantly clear, I am *not* saying that the DAS should be scrapped for immediate access.

YES THEY DO. Disney is not closed to them. It remains open and available. If they are physically unable to last more than 3-4 hours in the park, it is not Disney's fault or responsibility. The ACCESS is there....they are open and available.

 

[Laz]

I haven't disagreed with this. My point is that what may trigger a child one day may not trigger them another. It may not be as simple as "this envrionment always triggers my child, so I won't go there." It could be more like 90% of the time, the environment does NOT trigger them, but 10% of the time it does - but they can't predict when that 10% will happen.



What is equal access? The family I spoke of could only be in the park for 3-4 hours a day. No matter what they do, they do not have equal access to the parks that someone who is in the park for 7-10 (or more) hours will have. Even with the GAC, they didn't have equal opportunity to do what those who could stay in the parks 7+ hours could do...
That's all I was trying to say. I'm certainly not saying they should have absolute FOTL passes, as it seems my posts are being taken. But this is a heated topic, so I'm not surprised my words are being taken that way. I just had a reaction to the idea that these kids just shouldn't be in the park. Again, if that's not how that poster meant it, I apologize, but that's how it came across and what I reacted to.

Again, to be very abundantly clear, I am *not* saying that the DAS should be scrapped for immediate access.

I escorted a young lady to Disneyland who was in a wheelchair and needed both myself and her sister to help her in and out of rides. On ride like California Screaming, the CMs had to hold the ride up for us to help her in and out. This slowed down the ride for us and for those in the car and in line. Some of the of newer rides like TSMM allowed her to roll her wheelchair on, but it slowed us down because it took extra time to strapped the wheelchair down and/or we had to wait for the special car or boat. The end result is that we did not get an equal opportunity to do what those without a person in a wheelchair could do, yet we all paid the same price for a ticket.

 

[HMANSION LOVER]

Yep. I'm sure Disney anticipated this backlash and had a team of lawyers review and re-review the program before it was implemented. And frankly, I have more confidence in the abilities of Disney lawyers than in one that files a lawsuit riddled with inaccuracies, out of date information, and contradictions.

I agree, let's talk about the lawyer / lawyers who filed the lawsuit. They know, or should know, they are up against Goliath. But having owned my own business I have dealt with lawyers on both sides, mine and the opposition. And I have found one universal imutable fact, they usually don't care about the cause or the case, they are only concerned with billable hours or, if working on contingency, how much one third of the settlement will be. This is nothing more than a nuisance suit and the lawyers who filed it know they can't beat a team of top notch lawyers but are hoping they will settle just to put it behind them. I have settled many lawsuits because it would have cost me more to fight it. On numerous occassions I had to demand my lawyer settle because the payout was much less than he would have billed me to fight the suit. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GAC vs. DAS and everything to do with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[AndreaA]

exactly what i was thinking. there is no more immediate entrance to the fast pass line as soon as you walk up. So the card is sorta like an infinite fast pass? even when you get in the line there is that chance you have to wait 10 minutes or do they just load you right away?

They do have to wait, which is actually part of the problem. Someone with a DAS can end up waiting significantly longer than someone in standby. They approach a ride with a 60min posted wait. The CM lops off 10min and tells them to come back in 50min. The person comes back, goes into the FP line, but lo-and-behold, there's a back-up and they're waiting 20min - 70min total. Meanwhile, the posted wait of 60min was actually overstated and the person in standby got to the front of the line in 45min.

I don't suspect the lawsuit will go anywhere, but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney quietly makes some more accommodations, or is more forthcoming with the less-advertised ones they do allow. I also don't think abuse/use or even "normal" guests' irritation (I seriously don't think many people were bothered by GAC holders), I think it was 100% due to the development of FP+.

Ironically, I don't think it will change anything about too many people with GAC/DAS in the FP return line. If people are trying to say that the line used to be backed up by 20 people with GACs, well, now those 20 people will still arrive at the ride at the same time, get their return times and come back AT THE SAME TIME. Unless of course the ultimate goal was to keep many of those people out of the parks period.

 

[mummabear]

If you want to go on space mountain but your 2 year old is napping you can get a pass called a child swap pass which allows you to swap adults so everyone gets a turn. If a family did ride space mountain for 12 hours with a gac then that is clearly abusing the system and is unfair.

The child needs to be present. So the poster was correct, if they need to go back to the hotel for a nap then they loose park time and cannot ride as many rides as someone who doesn't leave the park.

 

[AndreaA]

YES THEY DO. Disney is not closed to them. It remains open and available. If they are physically unable to last more than 3-4 hours in the park, it is not Disney's fault or responsibility. The ACCESS is there....they are open and available.

You're right. It's not the company's or anyone else's responsibility to act kindly, with empathy, understanding and good grace to someone who has a more difficult life.

But wouldn't it be nice if people and companies just DID SO ANYWAY and were not accused of "favoritism" while doing so?

 

[morethananyonex]

The issue here isn't that Disney shouldn't go above and beyond if they chose to, it's that they are not legally obligated to. After all, this thread is about a lawsuit, and I think that's getting lost in the discussion.

 

[Objectivity]

I escorted a young lady to Disneyland who was in a wheelchair and needed both myself and her sister to help her in and out of rides. On ride like California Screaming, the CMs had to hold the ride up for us to help her in and out. This slowed down the ride for us and for those in the car and in line. Some of the of newer rides like TSMM allowed her to roll her wheelchair on, but it slowed us down because it took extra time to strapped the wheelchair down and/or we had to wait for the special car or boat. The end result is that we did not get an equal opportunity to do what those without a person in a wheelchair could do, yet we all paid the same price for a ticket.

You had equal opportunity to ride the ride, it's just that your opportunity took longer. Legally, that's all Disney has to provide.

Even if it wanted to, Disney can't give someone in a wheelchair more than that because it takes longer to load and unload or get between attractions. If they opened that Pandora's Box, how is the time factor different for you than someone who chooses to walk slow. (Besides the disability, which Disney isn't legally allowed to ask about).

 

[cteddiesgirl]

Rant

I hope this swings the pendulum the other way. Everybody waits. Everyone gets their FP+ and nothing else. No more DAS, GAC, or whatever the whiners demand next. If you need to take your wheelchair or scooter up the exit to access I have no problems with that. Wait after you get there.

Everyone hates to wait in hot sweaty lines. I am a disabled military vet with prosthetics. I also get very nervous/anxious when I am a crowd or jostled due to some of the experiences I have had. Guess what, when the crowds become too much or my legs ache too much, I go back to the resort or somewhere cool and quiet to rest.

People who feel that they are more special than everyone else needs to suck it up. Things are tough all over and demanding preferential treatment is not the way to go. Teaching your children that they can whine their way to the front of a line is not setting them up for success.

/rant.

Agreed.

Then perhaps Disney isn't the best place for them? If a child is hitting other members of the public, maybe a crowded place isn't the best idea. Sorry.

Agreed. I would never want to inflict the public with a child who can suddenly become violent to strangers.

Something that always bothered me about the GAC system that I felt was improved with the new system was that it makes it MORE equal. This is coming from a mom of a 5yo with Down syndrome.
As many have already pointed out, the law states equal access, which returning at a specified time provides.

We have never been able to understand this double standard in the special needs community of wanting your child to be treated fairly-or even better, as an individual with individual needs and talents-yet at a place like Disney, want preferential treatment. We cry out, "look what my child is capable of. My child can be much like typical children. Life is not over because we have a child with a disablity". Yet at WDW it's " life is so hard. We can't enjoy Disney without we need to get to the front of the line for every ride." How can you fight for one and the other at the same time?

I understand that many children have needs different from my daughter's; she doesn't "run", she doesn't have sensory issues, she understands and respects personal space, she doesn't overheat easily. I am glad that the system exists for families whose children deal with these and other issues. But our family has been pressured by other special needs families to "get the front of the line pass." "Why would you NOT get the front of the line pass?" We feel as a family that NOT using the "system" when we-I guess-could sends the better message that our daughter, based on her INDIVIDUAL needs, is able to tour the park in the exact same manner as the rest of the family. She is not defined by her disability.

Again, please don't mistake my rant to mean that people who have children with a disablity don't deserve to have EQUAL access, and I'm glad that they do.

Thank you for being rational.

If your child is overstimulated by crowds, can not endure heat and lines, maybe Disney is not where you should be vacationing? I think the DAS is a very generous solution and don't understand how Disney is being lambasted for giving preferential treatment to some people.

Growing up and going to Disney and other parks, events, etc., my family never was treated preferentially because of my sister. My sister was born deaf and with a slight heart condition (rubella baby). We had to stand in lines along with everyone else. And when there was words being spoken, there was usually only my mom to interpret.
I'm happy that there have been efforts made to make things more accessible to those that need it. But again, no one needs immediate access to any ride or attraction anywhere. Only to immediate health care if necessary.

 

[North of Mouse]

Seriously? Ridiculous.
Sounds like a bunch of entitled, bratty parents hiding behind the "warrior" title. So pathetic. I hope the judge laughs in their face.

Yep, a bunch of whiners and complainers who are only wanting 'front of the line access' - not equal access. Some people will do anything for attention. Hopefully this will get thrown out.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

I'm not arguing abotu children who are highly violent and have a high likelihood of being violent.

I'm referring to children who are *not* usually violent, have shown they can handle Disney in small doses (say 3-4 hr spurts) - but who can, very occasionally, have a more serious meltdown. The parents are proactive in not keeping their child in the park long, because they understand that a longer time in the park could raise the possibility of the serious meltdown. With the DAS, they may be able to get 3 or 4 rides in during that 3-4 hours (on a good day!).

Do we not have people complaining here every single day about FP+ and how it means they may not reliably be able to experience much more than their 3 pre-booked attractions because they refuse to get in a line that's more than 30 mins? That they aren't getting enough for their money to only be able to count on 3 rides/day?

How is that OK, but saying that a child who has a medical condition that prevents them from being in the park for very long should be able to experience 4-5 attractions in a much shortened day makes me a troll?

Yes, we have people complain every day about FP+ and I'm not one of them and don't agree with them. I also don't whine if I can't get the ADR I want.

:sigh: I didn't say that I thought Disney was responsible for providing the perfect day.

I'm not one who believes in immediate FOTL access for those who are disabled, and that's how I'm being portrayed at the moment, despite having said otherwise.

I just feel for my friend who can no longer have the same Disney experience with her son that she did a year ago. And to be clear - that experience was still nowhere near what an average family would experience. I was coming from a personal, more emotional POV and I will admit that.

I'm honestly sorry I even said anything at this point.

I feel for them, I really do. But they are not an average family and must deal with that whether they like it or not. Everyone has things they have to deal with that may affect how they may or may not enjoy things that others do. It's a fact of life. They are still getting equal access. If they can or cannot use that equal access is nothing that Disney can control.

As have I.

As an observer, if you see a child having a violent moment - how would you know whether that was "highly likely" for that child? You wouldn't. Many people (specifically not saying you), would assume that the parents should have forseen that and just not brought their child to the park in the first place. I was simply trying to point out that there can be scenarios where a child does get violent, where it is NOT a typical reaction for them, and not something the parent can predict.

That's all I was trying to point out. I wasn't trying to bait you, as I've been accused.

My reaction to seeing a child or person (really anyone) having a meltdown, violent or not, would be it's time for them to leave. That's what my parents did. It's what I did when I took my niece to WDW in 1997. My niece was mentally, physically and sexually abused as a child and to this day still has issues. When I took her to WDW, I had to pay attention to her mood swings and when I noticed that she was starting to have problems, it was time to go.

I was not referring to a person using a GAC to loop Space Mtn. I was talking generally and making the point that no one has the same day. Disabled, not disabled, old, young,skinny, pooh sized, thrill rider, IASW lover- it seems as if so many have created an expectation of what they "should" get done, rather than going, doing what they can,and looking for the good rather than an entitlement system.

And to be clear, my mother is disabled. She has traveled to Disney under both systems. And would tell you right now she appreciates all Disney does and all the memories she has made there. Is it perfect? No. Do disabilities suck? Yes. But Disney can't fix either of those.

Agreed.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Yep, a bunch of whiners and complainers who are only wanting 'front of the line access' - not equal access. Some people will do anything for attention. Hopefully this will get thrown out.

I'm hoping for thrown out, plaintiffs have to pay Disney's legal expenses, and banned from the parks for life.

 

[JimmyV]

You're right. It's not the company's or anyone else's responsibility to act kindly, with empathy, understanding and good grace to someone who has a more difficult life.

But wouldn't it be nice if people and companies just DID SO ANYWAY and were not accused of "favoritism" while doing so?

And there it is. We all know the law, and if we don t we can go read it. But all the law does is set the minimum standard that must be met in terms of access and equality. So now people take it upon themselves to tie Disney to a whipping post for exceeding the minimum requirement. Heaven forbid that the vacation kingdom of the world go beyond the letter if the law in an effort to put smiles on the faces of some families that know too few. Sorry if that costs you 30 extra seconds in line at Peter Pan. Perspective people. Perspective.

 

[morethananyonex]

And there it is. We all know the law, and if we don t we can go read it. But all the law does is set the minimum standard that must be met in terms of access and equality. So now people take it upon themselves to tie Disney to a whipping post for exceeding the minimum requirement. Heaven forbid that the vacation kingdom of the world go beyond the letter if the law in an effort to put smiles on the faces of some families that know too few. Sorry if that costs you 30 extra seconds in line at Peter Pan. Perspective people. Perspective.

This thread isn't about Disney exceeding the minimum requirement though.

It's about a small group of parents who feel the DAS is lawsuit worthy, because according to them Disney is not even meeting the minimum requirements. I completely understand being upset at the change from GAC to DAS, it's no fun having something you've grown used to taken away (as seen from the FP+ conversations), but that doesn't mean Disney is breaking the law.

To me, it's not about whether or not people are upset the GAC has been changed. It's about the ridiculousness of filing a lawsuit that basically says "We don't need front of the line access, we just need front of the line access".

 

[2tinkerbell]

This lawsuit angers me.

We had a great experience using the DAS when we went in January. No problem.

I agree that it was overuse and not abuse that made the GAC unsustainable. The people who are behind the lawsuit don't understand that. They come across as very entitled parents.

I hope that Disney sticks with the DAS and the lawsuit doesn't ruin it for those of us who worked within the established system.