Continued Cut Theme Park Hours

[Peter Pirate]

OK, so it appears hours did drop some two years ago, but this year seems to be running about equal...What does this mean???

Again, I think the writing is on the wall as to how closing hours are going to be handled in the future. Is this acceptable?

 

[raidermatt]

For me, the most important thing is the end-result. Theoretically, if the posted hours are less, but adjustments were made at "game-time", I'm happy. I'm all for efficiency and matching resources with where they are needed most. Post hours on the conservative side, and lengthen when appropriate.

As I've already said, I don't really see any evidence that WDW is shortening hours THIS year. Clearly they did several years ago, and I do think that's a legitimate beef. But it's at least a possibility that with respect to hours, the "slippery slope" may have leveled off.

I realize that even if true, it doesn't mean a philosophy has changed, its just the reality of the situation.

gcurling, I agree with Scoop. Posting FW closing as 7pm rather than 9pm is better from a PR standpoint, and also just from a plain honesty standpoint. The most popular attractions may remain open, but there are still a significant number that don't.

 

[EUROPA]

Still leaving out EE and E-nights in those numbers as well. Saying several does not change the fact that it was only two years ago and that they are still cutting the hours this year as well. For me and I'm sure alot of others..cutting hours, perks or the number of attractions is not the way to bring guest back. That is assuming the attendace figures are correct.

 

[raidermatt]

E nights were cancelled in May, but have been running through June and July. But since you brought it up....

How in the wide wide world of Disney can someone take Disney to task for its current philosophy, yet still count Enights as a plus? You don't want them to close the parks earlier, but you want them to charge for those same hours that used to be free?

If they did permanently cancel enights (which they haven't), it would not be the same as lowering hours, since it is a separate paid admission. The whole basis for saying fewer hours is a bad thing is that we pay the same price for less. That does not apply to Enights, which significantly increase your admission price.

Even with MK's two EE days/week, hours would only be cut about 4%. The other parks only had one EE per week, so very small impact on overall hours. Also, EE was not available to off-site guests, so its not really fair to even count an EE hour as a regular hour.

For me and I'm sure alot of others..cutting hours, perks or the number of attractions is not the way to bring guest back.

Yet attendance continues to get closer to last year's numbers, as do hours.

That is assuming the attendace figures are correct.

True, but we have been told in the past that the numbers are usually inflated, if anything.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Regardless, when factored in with MK's cuts, it comes out to about 8%, slightly more than the 6% attendance drop. However, that assumes no changes to hours during July. Any adds (or cuts) would change that %.

OK!!! That’s as far as I got with this thread before I couldn’t take it any longer!!!!!!!!

YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT FOCUSED!!!!!!

Please!!!! Stop!! Before you drive me CRAZY!!!!!!

There are, as I see it, only two issues in this thread.

1- Other amusement park hours
2- WDW hours (MK in particular)

THAT’S IT!!

And it doesn’t matter what % of this and minus what % of that. And people coming and people going and attendance figures and blah!! BLAH!! BLAH!!!!

The simple fact is that Disney has been cutting hours since 1998!!! That’s it!!

There’s nothing else to say about it. IT IS A FACT!!! And it has nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 or attendance or the way the planets are aligned!! It has to do with the bottom line and that quirky little thing I call, ‘The Philosophical Change’.

If you want to figure percentages, figure the hours being cut from midnight! Every night! Two parades!! Every night!! Fireworks!! Every night! And most important, NOT ENDING ON AN EVENT!!!!

What other amusement parks do is of no consequence at all. Disney is the leader. Or at least they used to be.






(Oooops!!) Just re-read my post. Maybe it’s my turn to be cranky? Did it sound that way?

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by raidermatt
E nights were cancelled in May, but have been running through June and July. But since you brought it up....

How in the wide wide world of Disney can someone take Disney to task for its current philosophy, yet still count Enights as a plus? You don't want them to close the parks earlier, but you want them to charge for those same hours that used to be free?

If they did permanently cancel enights (which they haven't), it would not be the same as lowering hours, since it is a separate paid admission. The whole basis for saying fewer hours is a bad thing is that we pay the same price for less. That does not apply to Enights, which significantly increase your admission price.

Even with MK's two EE days/week, hours would only be cut about 4%. The other parks only had one EE per week, so very small impact on overall hours. Also, EE was not available to off-site guests, so its not really fair to even count an EE hour as a regular hour.

Simple I want everything back...I've never dismissed E-nights. Now apprently what I want and what Disney does is two different things, but I can still want it.

 

[YoHo]

I don't want E-nights back. E-nights were annoying. I want the park to be fully open til midnight during Peak times without it costing me an extra $10 a head.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I don't want E-nights back. E-nights were annoying. I want the park to be fully open til midnight during Peak times without it costing me an extra $10 a head.

Like he said!!!!

 

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by EUROPA


Simple I want everything back...I've never dismissed E-nights. Now apprently what I want and what Disney does is two different things, but I can still want it.

Someone once sang,

“No, you can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
And if you try sometime you find
You get what you need ." (edited to accomodate Baron)

Europa, as we have been around this road before, Disney will do what it thinks is best.

I'll take my lashing for the comparison to Worldcom/Enron.

The problem I have is that no matter happens at WDW, there are some that won't be happy. Maybe we should have Eisner hand the keys to the kingdom over to the esteemed members of this board and see if they can do a better job and make a profit.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Landbaron my friend, I truly would like an answer to the question I posed of you...Thanks...

 

[space42]

The problem I have is that no matter happens at WDW, there are some that won't be happy. Maybe we should have Eisner hand the keys to the kingdom over to the esteemed members of this board and see if they can do a better job and make a profit.

Well is there any evidence that shows us the huge profit margin and stock increase since they started cutting the hours in 1998?

 

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by space42


Well is there any evidence that shows us the huge profit margin and stock increase since they started cutting the hours in 1998?

No.

But can you do it better in this economy?

Although I don't agreee with everything Eisner does, I think over the long haul he has done a good job. It's kinda like Nixon. Only after his death and history writes about will we realize what a great leader and President he was.

 

[EUROPA]

Wall Street also wants to see growth at Disney's famed theme parks. Sales in the most recent quarter fell 8%, to $1.5 billion, while operating income declined 15%, to $280 million. But earnings at the parks and resorts tend to rise and fall with the economic cycle, and this business now appeara to be on the way out of a significant trough in earnings that began a few months before September 11.

THis was taken from an article that was posted here. Sales fell by 8 but they decreased operating cost by 15. So we are back to the same place again. They are trying to make us pay for Failed Internet ventures, ABC, bad movies and cartoons that kids no longer watch. Its not all realated to the parks. These cuts are net result of the whole company failing not just a deline in the parks.

 

[raidermatt]

Lord Baron, I only figured and posted the percentages because the original points and arguments here, as well as several that have followed, insisted on using comparisons to 2001 as proof of the slide. Those comparisons do not, however, prove there has been a slide, or that one is continuing. But I am not pointing out this reality in an effort to prove that there have been no cuts. Believe it or not, I am trying to keep us FOCUSED on what the real issues are, and what the real proof is.

What is the real issue? As you said, hours have been cut since 1998. But if those who feel this is truly an issue want to make that point to others, they have no hope of successfully communicating this valid point using false evidence.

Let's say, for example, that the sky truly was falling, and I were the only one who knew it. Would it do any good for me to tell you it were falling if the proof I chose to make my argument was an acorn that fell on my head? (pause for processing....)

What if I had real proof, but packaged it with the acorn proof? Certainly you would question the validity of any proof I presented if I were capable of letting an acorn convice me.

So when if I make an effort to debunk the evidence behind an argument, it is not necessarily because I disagree with the main point, only that I want to remain FOCUSED on the real issue, and the real proof behind that issue.

I don't want E-nights back. E-nights were annoying. I want the park to be fully open til midnight during Peak times without it costing me an extra $10 a head.

I agree. (But isn't it $12?)

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I’m sorry Cap… Peter!! I must admit that this thread really bugs me. People are talking as though this can be explained in any way other than philosophically. And I really, to the marrow of my bones, believe it cannot be. (And then we get an Ei$ner cheering section!!! AHHHHHHH!!! It’s almost more than I can bear!! And I thought I was making headway on this board!!)

Anyway, in answer to:

So this may show us that the hours of the future will be a 'game time decision'. I know this doesn't help vacation planners & the potential for let down certainly exists, but Landbaron if during your July visit, its unexpectedly busy & Disney opens the MK to midnight two or thee times will the effect be magical or dismay?

It will most certainly be serendipitous dismay!! Especially if they do the prolonged hours on the days I have pre-scheduled for other events (Hoop-Dee-Do, Luau, IOA, secret meetings with fellow DIS people, etc.) If they would have announced it I would have scheduled appropriately. As it is, it may be hit or miss. And if it is a miss, I will certainly cry FOUL!!!

Someone once sang, " you can always get what want, you can't always get what you need."

Not quite right. The real lyric goes:

“You can always get what want, but if you try sometime, you might find, you get what you need”

Unfortunately Disney is not giving me what I "need" to battle the crowds during the summer months. I NEED TIME!!!

 

[OnWithTheShow]

AV you say the changes are permanent yet everytime there is greater attendance they increase the hours???? It is a fact that people are booking their vacations weeks in advance instead of the months in advance that used to be the case. The constantly fluctuating park hours are a reflection of this. Also you compare the park hours to those of 2000 instead of those of 2001. The hours as it has been mentioned are down only slightly from those of 2001. Well maybe that could be because there was a huge attendance drop from 2000 (a record setting year) and 2001? No that must not be possible it must be the evil execs in Burbank trying to cheat the WDW guest! Geez.....

You are playing the same numbers game you always complain about twisting the facts to support your own view.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

There are sooooo many gems to chose from, I hardly know where to start!!! Let’s just pick one at random:

But can you do it better in this economy?

Almost anyone could!!

Although I don't agreee with everything Eisner does, I think over the long haul he has done a good job.

Can you possibly site some specifics, because quite frankly, I’m at a loss!

Only after his death and history writes about will we realize what a great leader and President he was.

Are you seriously saying that after his tenure has ended, we will consider him a “great” leader and CEO of Disney!!!! Please tell me that in your excitement your hyperbole was bit overextended!!!

On to other matters. Sir Raider:

What is the real issue? As you said, hours have been cut since 1998. But if those who feel this is truly an issue want to make that point to others, they have no hope of successfully communicating this valid point using false evidence.

What other evidence do we need. From 1972 to 1997 the MK stayed opened until midnight and at times one o’clock in the morning. All summer long! From mid-June until mid August! Now they close at ten!

Your Honor!! I rest my case!!!!

 

[raidermatt]

Lord Baron-

What other evidence do we need. From 1972 to 1997 the MK stayed opened until midnight and at times one o’clock in the morning. All summer long! From mid-June until mid August! Now they close at ten!

AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

ok. I'm back.

I don't need anymore evidence. I agree.

I was only trying to say that comparing 2002 to 2001 does not prove this point. It misses the point. I know, YOU did not do this, but the original post, and some that follow DID.

I'm with you, bring back the hours. I'm just trying to differentiate between actual substance (hours cut from 1998), and just "piling on" (hours cut 25% from 2001). The former advances the cause, the latter muddies it.

 

[Eeyore2U]

Here goes. Know ing this board all to well, i'm sure the answers won't suffice.

Almost anyone could!!

Hmmmmm. How many large companies have you run?

Are you seriously saying that after his tenure has ended, we will consider him a “great” leader and CEO of Disney!!!! Please tell me that in your excitement your hyperbole was bit overextended!!!

Not at all, Mr Baron. I don't think those with axes to grind can make clear judgements. I think that it takes time to realize a job well done or poorly done.

 

[hopemax]

But can you do it better in this economy?

I always hate these types of answers. And since we're singing

''That's just the way it is
Some things will never change
That's just the way it is
Ah, but don't you believe them"

IMO, it's a cop out. It's a reason to stop investigating the alternatives. On both sides. From the consumer, outside the window perspetive, it stops people from doing actual research, looking for other companies that are successful while doing things differently. And from the business, inside perspective, it provides the excuse to not deviate from their SOP. It's the most accurate answer with the least amount of "work." It doesn't mean there aren't more accurate answers, just that they require a lot more work to reach them.

Yes, this economy will blow over, but my prediction is that the companies left standing will be the ones who took an offensive approach (new philosophies, new products) and the ones who played defense (cut backs, bunkering in) will be left in the dust.