DAS Outrage vs Genie Plus Outrage?

[meeshy1342]

People can pay more to get something different or better. There shouldn’t be an outrage against people who choose to buy something. Should there be outrage against people who stay at deluxe resorts? At people who use VIO tours? At people who buy a bmw vs a ford? First class vs coach? No. Because that’s how society is set up.

THIS. Having additional money to buy your way into a better experience is certainly not limited to Disney, it is a part of life.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

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Complaining that people with more money have better trips or vacations is silly. Rich folks have always had more privileges that is never going to go away when it come to a business. Disney is a business first and foremost so they are going to do whatever it takes to maximize profit. I expect if the number of people using Das decreases the availability of Genie plus will go up to maximize profit. It all comes down to money folks. And before I start getting accusations of being a rich entitled fat cat. I am just simply a High School teacher who understands Economics.

Wait....do people not remember when Fast Pass was free

Disneyland literally used to be one line then FP but at least FP was free

 

[Smugpugmug]

I feel like Genie+ gets equal or even more hate than DAS abuse does. Does anyone else remember the initial announcement that Genie+ was coming and how much unanimous hate that received? The last time I saw something Disney related get that much criticism was when the Incredibles retheme of the Contemporary rooms were revealed (those rooms do look bad but that's not the point.)

I also wanted to comment on this line here from the OP's first post:
"To me Genie Plus is the bigger insult it's literally letting people with more money have better trips even as you pay insane prices for a ticket or Magic Key."

This isn't really a Disney exclusive thing. This happens everywhere. You don't have to like it but it's just a part of life. There are things I wish I could have but can't afford.

Yes, Fastpass used to be free but it's not anymore. The Genie is out of the bottle; Disney is not going to make their skip the line service free again.

 

[foolish_mortals]

Interesting, If I can ask what medial reasons are hard to get notes for if you dont mind me asking

My friends with Bathroom issues can get notes, so I'm ignorant and thought it must be easy for most people to get one if they have conditions

In the thread in the disabilities board there are a few examples of the expense of doctors appointments, lapses in insurance, and doctor availability.

 

[Lumpy1106]

First off I want to start this off by saying I understand Disney is a business and can do what they want this is more about the outrage I see about DAS abuse vs Genie Plus

So my question's are these.

Back in the day a line was a line, you got in it and first come first serve.

Then it became FP, then Max Pass (which still had a free option)

So now you can be skipped in line by people with more money with you, and it seems like the internet while not happy about it doesn't hate it like they do DAS abuse, the only different is money is being given to Disney. Either way you have to wait longer, so why isn't there an outrage that people can just pay to skip you but people seem to think DAS is the issue when there are WAYYYY and I mean WAYYY more people using Genie plus making you wait longer and artificially raising line times making it more tempting for you to have to buy Genie Plus to have a good day.

Second question is DAS works like mobile ordering food, do people dislike those using the app to get food once again making those in line having to wait longer?

My third Thought is if Disney really wanted to stop this to make people show documents, this new policy basically passes the buck to the CM's who are already underpaid and stressed. Now they have to help people if they leave a line and come back?

Anyway, lets try to keep this as respectful as possible but I feel like I would like to understand Disney guests mind set more. To me Genie Plus is the bigger insult it's literally letting people with more money have better trips even as you pay insane prices for a ticket or Magic Key. Thanks for the input

I unashamedly refer to G+ and paid LL as "paid line cutting" here and regularly get criticized for it. I think people defend it because they want to use it without feeling guilty about it. It is what it is, and isn't going to change as long as people are defending it.

 

[Lumpy1106]

People can pay more to get something different or better. There shouldn’t be an outrage against people who choose to buy something. Should there be outrage against people who stay at deluxe resorts? At people who use VIO tours? At people who buy a bmw vs a ford? First class vs coach? No. Because that’s how society is set up.

Difference is your better experience you get by paying for G+ comes at the expense of the people waiting in the stnadby line. None of your other examples are even close to the same. It's distressing to me that you don't see this.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

I unashamedly refer to G+ and paid LL as "paid line cutting" here and regularly get criticized for it. I think people defend it because they want to use it without feeling guilty about it. It is what it is, and isn't going to change as long as people are defending it.

Its interesting to hear people are just fine with others with more money able to walk past you and be like "thats real life"

I mean.....Disneyland whole point was an escape for families and tickets cost and arm and a leg.
Along younger people having wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy less wealth then generations before them
Also many being like one is against the rules....so even if rules are unjust its fine because its the rules.


But mainly I just want to hear people's thoughts on it, thanks for the comments

 

[Brian Noble]

.Disneyland whole point was an escape for families and tickets cost and arm and a leg.

In The Beginning, Disneyland was absolutely a pay-more-get-more experience. The switch to pay-one-price was not until 1981/1982.

https://d23.com/e-ticket-memories-five-favorite-facts-about-ticket-books/

The difference for me is that Disney sets the rules of engagement. For me, the choices are: visit based on those rules of engagement, or do something else. The people lying to acquire DAS are using a third option that I consider unethical.

 

[CWTC]

The difference for me is that Disney sets the rules of engagement. For me, the choices are: visit based on those rules of engagement, or do something else. The people lying to acquire DAS are using a third option that I consider unethical.

Agreed. People are not obligated to go to Disney. Disney has set up a system where I can pay for my family to wait in shorter lines. I choose to pay this. I feel no guilt about buying Genie+ or ILL because this is how the system is set up. If I were cheating this system, then I’d be in the wrong.

 

[MonocularVision]

For those that oppose price tiering for different experiences, do you have problems with:

• Different classes of seats on airplanes. Having larger seats or seats with more legroom result in less space for other passengers.
• Difference in seating pricing for concerts, sports or other events
• Paying extra to get items delivered to you faster.

The list sort of goes on and on. Falling back to “it used to be free!” is a ridiculous argument because you can just go back to pre-80’s Disneyland and demonstrate that paying more for you more.

 

[Brian Noble]

People are not obligated to go to Disney.

This is actually a very interesting observation.

In a certain segment of US culture, a Disney trip is a childhood rite of passage. And for some corners of that population, repeated Disney trips are a marker of status.

As a related example: A good chunk of my childhood predated airline deregulation. I lived in Michigan, and in those days flying anywhere far enough away to be warm over spring break was relatively expensive. Guess what? The kids from well-to-do families pretty much all came back tan--and that tan was, by itself, a marker of status.

This makes the G+ differentiation for some folks more than just a question of cost and value. It's a question of class and status. And when people's sense of their place in the class/status hierarchy is threatened, they generally don't just brush it off.

 

[BrianL]

This is actually a very interesting observation.

In a certain segment of US culture, a Disney trip is a childhood rite of passage. And for some corners of that population, repeated Disney trips are a marker of status.

As a related example: A good chunk of my childhood predated airline deregulation. I lived in Michigan, and in those days flying anywhere far enough away to be warm over spring break was relatively expensive. Guess what? The kids from well-to-do families pretty much all came back tan--and that tan was, by itself, a marker of status.

This makes the G+ differentiation for some folks more than just a question of cost and value. It's a question of class and status. And when people's sense of their place in the class/status hierarchy is threatened, they generally don't just brush it off.

It's an interesting thought, though I wonder how many people who don't buy Genie+ "can't afford" it versus just not wantintg to. I mean, anyway you slice it, a Disney vacation is expensive, and the cost for G+ would be a small percentage (thoguh it could certianly get prohibitive for larger families). Personally, I have chosen not to use G+ becuase I don't want to pay for something that I may or may not get value out of. It seems like some days a lot of the "good stuff" runs out early, and, you know, if you don't get it booked then you are out of luck (yeah, I know that this isn't that common and you are likely to get some utility out of it, though I understand this works better at DL than say at Animal Kingdom). I actually prefer to just buy an ILL - you can pick a time for the rides that really need it the most. I mean, I don't like it and I feel like I shouldn't encourage them, , but it does work.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Universal, Legoland, Hershey Park, Busch Gardens, and I suspect many other corporations were doing the "pay money to enjoy shorter lines" thing many years before Disney joined in. And many airlines give you the choice to pay more money for the priority security line, and you get to board first if you pay for First Class, etc. You can either accept that this is part of life and just one more benefit to having more money, or go around in a state of perpetual outrage.

 

[irlandaise]

What has tripled in the past five years?

There's no mention of tripling, DAS abuse, or Genie+ on the Disneyland page shown in the X posting you quoted:

Its in Scotts Replies to the thread I posted

FYI, those of us without Twitter subscriptions can only view directly linked tweets, not replies or other postings on the site. Thank you for posting the additional comment about DAS usage that you were referring to.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I want to respectfully comment on OP suggesting DAS folks should not be able to do anything else while waiting for recall. Last trip I did not even ask for DAS and trips prior maybe used it once or twice per park day. I have multiple valid reasons for needing it especially waiting in the heat in an ECV. Ducking into an a/c shop or getting a cold drink is abuse or am I overthinking your post? Being disabled is an inequity I didn't ask for, try to gracefully accept and certainly should not have to apologize for. Hopefully you will understand I am not taking your place in line away from you.

"The second problem is the ability to do other things while waiting on the return time. Disney surely could incorporate a rule into its DAS technology/MDE app that cancels return times if anyone in the group picks up a mobile order, checks into a dining reservation, uses an ILL, exits the park, purchases something, etc. - things you can't do in line. That would remove virtually all of the inequities."

 

[Brian Noble]

I wonder how many people who don't buy Genie+ "can't afford" it versus juxt not wantintg to.

I think it is less about ability (or not) and more about what it means as a more obvious signal of "not everyone here is equal." There are lots of such signals, but most of them are not quite this visible and certainly not this ubiquitous.

Full disclosure: I am (at best) an armchair social scientist. I don't have any training, but I do hang out with some folks who do.

 

[irlandaise]

I feel like Genie+ gets equal or even more hate than DAS abuse does. Does anyone else remember the initial announcement that Genie+ was coming and how much unanimous hate that received? The last time I saw something Disney related get that much criticism was when the Incredibles retheme of the Contemporary rooms were revealed (those rooms do look bad but that's not the point.)

I would agree that the amount of anger is higher for Genie+, because FastPass and then Genie+ affected more people, so there were more forum messages, blog postings, etc. from people who didn't like the looks of G+ or don't like it now. But I also think that the level of anger is higher for DAS abuse, because the people doing that are just plain cheating and those of us who play by the rules quite rightly don't like them doing that.

 

[starlite_]

This makes the G+ differentiation for some folks more than just a question of cost and value. It's a question of class and status. And when people's sense of their place in the class/status hierarchy is threatened, they generally don't just brush it off.

I would agree for something like the Universal pass. But G+ is $30. $30 isn't a mark of status or class.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I would agree that the amount of anger is higher for Genie+, because FastPass and then Genie+ affected more people, so there were more forum messages, blog postings, etc. from people who didn't like the looks of G+ or don't like it now. But I also think that the level of anger is higher for DAS abuse, because the people doing that are just plain cheating and those of us who play by the rules quite rightly don't like them doing that.

Yeah that I agree with. I guess I interpreted the OP's post as saying that DAS abuse gets more hate than Genie+ when Genie+ pretty much gets unanimously dunked on. Even people who aren't really "into" Disney hate on it.

 

[irlandaise]

Wait....do people not remember when Fast Pass was free

Disneyland literally used to be one line then FP but at least FP was free

Of course we remember it. Would we like to return to a free way to stand in a shorter line? Sure. But it ain't gonna happen. As HerzerHerrick said in the posting you were responding to, "Disney is a business first and foremost so they are going to do whatever it takes to maximize profit." They found a way to monetize shorter lines. Heck, even TSA did that. (Although PreCheck is a bargain given its five-year lifetime.)

As several people have pointed out, it does little good for one's blood pressure to be angry about everything in life that's easier if you can throw more money at it.