Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Marionnette]

I could have been clearer, but yes, this is exactly what I’m referring to when I said the owner was smart to leave the reservation and let DVC cancel it, lest they owe me a refund.

To be clear, the owner would not owe you a refund. Your contract is with David’s. David’s would owe you the refund not a voucher, if the owner canceled. David’s would then go after the owner for breaching the contract that David’s has with the owner.

 

[Bowen Family]

This goes back to the question of whether you are paying for a certain NUMBER of points or a specific SET of points. If the former, expiration shouldn't matter because if those points expire, the owner should still be on the hook to provide a reservation using additional points if necessary. Some have asserted that the renter is renting the specific points and they must be used by the renter before they expire.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this gets further complicated by the broker's 3-wasy contract. The broker DID know the status of those points. Did he pay the owner for the expiring points specifically or for that many points in general?

I would venture a guess that many points in the rental market are to some degree "distressed." Some owners may plan well in advance to rent points they know they won't be using that year, but it's probably fairly often that they are renting specifically because they are going to lose the points due to expiration.

Agreed, it’s a difficult but important distinction. I think the way to salvage and re-build trust in the point rental industry going forward is to let the ‘buyer beware’ and give them advance knowledge of the point’s expiry status before they agree to rent. Then they can decide for themselves if distressed points are worth the additional risk compared to points that could be more easily re-acheduled in the event of a closure.

 

[Bowen Family]

To be clear, the owner would not owe you a refund. Your contract is with David’s. David’s would owe you the refund not a voucher, if the owner canceled. David’s would then go after the owner for breaching the contract that David’s has with the owner.

I think we may be getting into semantics here, as the refund is ultimately owed the renter if the owner cancels. David’s is meant to secure and forward the refund in that case. But yes, I take your point.

 

[Marionnette]

Agreed, it’s a difficult but important distinction. I think the way to salvage and re-build trust in the point rental industry going forward is to let the ‘buyer beware’ and give them advance knowledge of the point’s expiry status before they agree to rent. Then they can decide for themselves if distressed points are worth the additional risk compared to points that could be more easily re-acheduled in the event of a closure.

“Distressed” points are marketed that way. They typically expire within 3 months of the day they are also offered up for rental.

Points that are made available at 11 months are anything but “distressed”. For instance, someone who booked a March rental in April for David’s using their April UY points might be using banked points that have almost a full year of useful life. If they were from the current UY, their life could have been extended by banking them into the next year by Oct. 31. IOW, those points had a lot of life left to them when they were used to make a reservation for the renter. They weren’t “distressed” at the time that the rental agreements were made.

 

[Marionnette]

I think we may be getting into semantics here, as the refund is ultimately owed the renter if the owner cancels. David’s is meant to secure and forward the refund in that case. But yes, I take your point.

Actually, no, it’s not semantics. David’s owes the renter a refund regardless of their ability to recover from the owner, if the owner cancels. That’s why David’s is discouraging owners from taking proactive measures to cancel ahead of DVC doing it.

 

[DisneyBB]

Actually, no, it’s not semantics. David’s owes the renter a refund regardless of their ability to recover from the owner, if the owner cancels. That’s why David’s is discouraging owners from taking proactive measures to cancel ahead of DVC doing it.

The owner cannot cancel as the contract will be in breach and the owner would be responsible for costs from the renter such as airfare etc. I have rented my points, one has rescheduled and other wants to stay put. I have no choice but to follow the contract.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

You are renting specific points no doubt to it as David’s clearly goes over your points with you when you sign to tent points with him - he knows exactly what you are renting and when where they are good for - this isn’t his rodeo - he may write horrible contracts - he may try to hose everyone over / but he knows the DVC system don’t doubt that for a minute .

 

[Marionnette]

The owner cannot cancel as the contract will be in breach and the owner would be responsible for costs from the renter such as airfare etc. I have rented my points, one has rescheduled and other wants to stay put. I have no choice but to follow the contract.

But again, it would be up to David’s to recover those costs for the renter because the renter does not have a contract with the owner. I’m not advocating for owners to cancel reservations in advance. I’m just saying that David’s motivation isn’t to protect the owner when they tell owners to wait until DVC does the cancellations. It’s all about self-preservation. David’s wants to be able to issue vouchers instead of refunding cash to the renter.

 

[banzai75]

Does anyone else find it strange that David or his representative is not posting on here at all?

The only comments they post are on Facebook that say to contact the office.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Does anyone else find it strange that David or his representative is not posting on here at all?

The only comments they post are on Facebook that say to contact the office.

I think he is afraid of being flamed by renters and owners.

 

[Bowen Family]

But again, it would be up to David’s to recover those costs for the renter because the renter does not have a contract with the owner. I’m not advocating for owners to cancel reservations in advance. I’m just saying that David’s motivation isn’t to protect the owner when they tell owners to wait until DVC does the cancellations. It’s all about self-preservation. David’s wants to be able to issue vouchers instead of refunding cash to the renter.

I don’t think David’s sees it your way, though. The quote below is directly from their website. It clearly says that where the owner is at fault, the owner is responsible for the renter’s refund.

14. Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Owner, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Owner and, after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations, as determined by Intermediary in Intermediary’s sole discretion, for the same dates cannot be secured by the Owner, the parties agree that Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is _______________ US Dollars which refund shall be the responsibility of Owner. In the event that the suitable comparable accommodations, as determined by Intermediary in Intermediary’s sole discretion, are available for a sum greater than the original amount paid by the Renter, the difference in value shall be the responsibility of the Owner.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t think David’s sees it your way, though. The quote below is directly from their website. It clearly says that where the owner is at fault, the owner is responsible for the renter’s refund.

14. Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Owner, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Owner and, after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations, as determined by Intermediary in Intermediary’s sole discretion, for the same dates cannot be secured by the Owner, the parties agree that Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is _______________ US Dollars which refund shall be the responsibility of Owner. In the event that the suitable comparable accommodations, as determined by Intermediary in Intermediary’s sole discretion, are available for a sum greater than the original amount paid by the Renter, the difference in value shall be the responsibility of the Owner.

Typically, yes. However, right now, owners have offered to cancel and refund the renter, and Davids has asked them not to because he does not want to give renters the money, even when an owner is willing to do so,

I think right now, David’s motivation for not having an owner cancel is because he doesn’t want to have to give the money an owner refunds, plus the rest of the money he is still holding, back, To a renter,

He wants to be able to force the renter to accept the voucher, even when owners have returned funds,

 

[Bowen Family]

Typically, yes. However, right now, owners have offered to cancel and refund the renter, and Davids has asked them not to because he does not want to give renters the money, even when an owner is willing to do so,

I think right now, David’s motivation for not having an owner cancel is because he doesn’t want to have to give the money an owner refunds, plus the rest of the money he is still holding, back, To a renter,

He wants to be able to force the renter to accept the voucher, even when owners have returned funds,

100% in agreement with this!

Just speculation on my part, but David’s probably didn’t want some renters to feel they’d been short-changed because a refund wasn’t available from ‘their’ owner, while others had that option. So we wind up with this attempt at a one-size-fits-all solution, when in fact there are many different circumstances and what is needed is flexibility and tailored solutions.

 

[McCrae]

The owner cannot cancel as the contract will be in breach and the owner would be responsible for costs from the renter such as airfare etc. I have rented my points, one has rescheduled and other wants to stay put. I have no choice but to follow the contract.

No one can stop an owner cancelling a contract.

 

[McCrae]

Totally agree with all stated. Vacations aren't supposed to be a spin on the roulette table. My wife and I jumped on this forum to confirm are perspective as a renter is not crazy or unheard-of. This whole situation should have been handled in a different way.

I have a banquet business and couldn't imagine telling brides that their date has come and gone, but they can rebook; however, if our venue is closed upon 2nd booking - WE KEEP THE MONEY FOR NO SERVICES. I'd be out of the wedding business in a few months.

Do you offer your services at a big discount to your competitors and do your clients sign a no refunds or changes clause in your contracts?

 

[Sandisw]

100% in agreement with this!

Just speculation on my part, but David’s probably didn’t want some renters to feel they’d been short-changed because a refund wasn’t available from ‘their’ owner, while others had that option. So we wind up with this attempt at a one-size-fits-all solution, when in fact there are many different circumstances and what is needed is flexibility and tailored solutions.

I applaud your optimism but I think Davids is choosing not refund renters when owners do is because he wants control of the money and is worried about himself, no one else,

I am so regretting doing business with him, but I’m confident WDW will be open in August when my renters go. If they decide not to even with reopening, because of the way Davids has dealt sith this, I will not be refunding or rescheduling, nor will I cancel and just let the points expire because I will not continue a deal with his business

 

[Bowen Family]

I applaud your optimism but I think Davids is choosing not refund renters when owners do is because he wants control of the money and is worried about himself, no one else,

I am so regretting doing business with him, but I’m confident WDW will be open in August when my renters go. If they decide not to even with reopening, because of the way Davids has dealt sith this, I will not be refunding or rescheduling, nor will I cancel and just let the points expire because I will not continue a deal with his business

Hey, open is open. You certainly sound in the right to me if you were to refuse any changes.

 

[Sandisw]

Hey, open is open. You certainly sound in the right to me if you were to refuse any changes.

I guess my point was that If Davids had not played these games I would have offered my renter a chance to reschedule as the points being used are in their first month of use,

 

[DisneyBB]

No one can stop an owner cancelling a contract.

Yes of course as an owner I can cancel, but I would be opening myself up to the possibility of extra costs associated with that. David and renter would have to give permission to cancel.

 

[Bowen Family]

I guess my point was that If Davids had not played these games I would have offered my renter a chance to reschedule as the points being used are in their first month of use,

I totally get it. Suppose you did rebook but then there’s a resort closure for the new date. What then? Why prolong all this uncertainty? I hope the whole point rental industry figures out a new normal, since it can benefit everybody involved. But I regret being stuck in it right now and would love an out. In the future, if we rent points again, I’ll look to book directly with owners.