Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[DGsAtBLT]

If renting left you in the hole or very close to it, why would anyone bother? Mutually beneficial relationship.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Renters aren't getting what they paid for. Points are going back to owners and they have already received 70% of the value of those points. If points are expiring and are not usable and can't be banked that's one thing, but I am going to guess owners can do something with those points. Hopefully owners are willing to work with renters since they have paid 100% to David's and right now they have nothing to show for it.

Owners are getting 53% of what the renter paid, what you are calling 70%. David has 47% of the money, the other portion owed to the owner and his commission on the sale. Basically the owner was paid about $10 a point before the start of the reservation. I could see the owner of the points keeping the annual member fees for the points they had rented (about $7-8 per point) and returning the rest to the renter. But David would need to return his portion, both the amount he held out from the owner and his commission. The price of doing business. The renter could get about 55% of what they had originally paid, the price of trying to get a deal.

 

[Fred M]

My point being, this is a beneficial relationship on both sides. Neither is doing the other a favour. Renters don’t really need to be grateful owners take the plunge to be DVC members anymore than owners need to be grateful renters are there to lessen their costs of owning.

But it's far more beneficial to a renter than an owner, and that's why I will never rent out my DVC points until companies like David's pay market rates to owners. In my mind, the owners are doing the renters a huge favor that isn't worth the money David's is paying.

I looked up rack rates for the Boardwalk on the hotel side, from October 12th to 18th. It averages $566.57 per night for a garden view with a king bed. For a 6 night stay, that's $3,400. Water view is $687.33 per night, for $4,124. DVC points for a studio are 10/15 per night for the Monday through Thursday, and 14/16 per night for the Friday and Saturday. Let's say miracles of miracles happen and you snag a standard view studio. That's 68 points. Premium view will be 92 points. For the 68 point studio, David's is going to charge you $1,360, but the owner gets just over $1,000. For premium view, David's will charge you $1,840, but the owner only gets $1,426.

What's the owner getting for their payment? The privilege of scheduling Magical Express and dining packages. The privilege of getting a bill from DVC should the renter damage the unit. The privilege of paying maintenance fees on those points. The privilege of only getting 70% up front and having to wait months and months for the remaining 30%. And the privilege of, for those of us in the US, paying federal income taxes on our rental.

The renters' savings on rack rate is substantially more than what the owner is getting at the end of the day. And if a renter can get a deal from Disney off of rack rate, or a deal from a travel agent that saves off of rack rate, why would anyone go to David's? Because it's a better deal, and the savings for that is coming out of the owner's pocket.

 

[toesmom]

I don't think anyone ever considered this situation. My family booked trip to Europe for July and I booked non-refundable rooms to get discounted rate. It never even crossed my mind that we would not go. We have always taken our family vacations. Always. But because of covid-19 I had to cancel. No money refunded for 2 hotels. Those were the terms. The hotels kept the money. I agreed to those terms when I paid the discounted room rate. No one ever foresaw this situation. But it happened, and from now on the idea of non-refundable is off the table. I'm not sure what should happen here, but I feel for those who are out the money. There should be a way to make this work. Had I paid the refundable rate, I'd have the money back. Had some renters paid reservations through disney, they would have the money back already. Really bad situation for everyone. Be well, stay home to keep everyone healthy.

 

[Amymouse13]

I don't think anyone ever considered this situation. My family booked trip to Europe for July and I booked non-refundable rooms to get discounted rate. It never even crossed my mind that we would not go. We have always taken our family vacations. Always. But because of covid-19 I had to cancel. No money refunded for 2 hotels. Those were the terms. The hotels kept the money. I agreed to those terms when I paid the discounted room rate. No one ever foresaw this situation. But it happened, and from now on the idea of non-refundable is off the table. I'm not sure what should happen here, but I feel for those who are out the money. There should be a way to make this work. Had I paid the refundable rate, I'd have the money back. Had some renters paid reservations through disney, they would have the money back already. Really bad situation for everyone. Be well, stay home to keep everyone healthy.

One difference is you chose to cancel. Had the hotel closed or cancelled your reservation the situation night be different...

 

[Dracula]

I don't think anyone ever considered this situation. My family booked trip to Europe for July and I booked non-refundable rooms to get discounted rate. It never even crossed my mind that we would not go. We have always taken our family vacations. Always. But because of covid-19 I had to cancel. No money refunded for 2 hotels. Those were the terms. The hotels kept the money. I agreed to those terms when I paid the discounted room rate. No one ever foresaw this situation. But it happened, and from now on the idea of non-refundable is off the table. I'm not sure what should happen here, but I feel for those who are out the money. There should be a way to make this work. Had I paid the refundable rate, I'd have the money back. Had some renters paid reservations through disney, they would have the money back already. Really bad situation for everyone. Be well, stay home to keep everyone healthy.

If you have a reservation that is non-refundable 3 months from now, do not cancel it. In the worst case scenario, you don't go and are out of money. But many credit cards provide travel insurance - maybe a family member is sick? or a job loss in the family? - that would qualify you for a refund, and chances are the hotels may bring a more generous cancellation policy, or they would be closed anyway. Once you cancel, however, you forfeit all these avenues to no gain for yourself.

We have non-refundable tickets to London on Delta in June and non-refundable tickets on other European carriers, all booked last August. At this point I am 100% sure we cannot go and 90% expect to lose all the money - but there is zero benefit in me canceling.

 

[badeacon]

If you have a reservation that is non-refundable 3 months from now, do not cancel it. In the worst case scenario, you don't go and are out of money. But many credit cards provide travel insurance - maybe a family member is sick? or a job loss in the family? - that would qualify you for a refund, and chances are the hotels may bring a more generous cancellation policy, or they would be closed anyway. Once you cancel, however, you forfeit all these avenues to no gain for yourself.

We have non-refundable tickets to London on Delta in June and non-refundable tickets on other European carriers, all booked last August. At this point I am 100% sure we cannot go and 90% expect to lose all the money - but there is zero benefit in me canceling.

I have strong feeling your Delta ticket in June will not be lost. There is a good chance travel may still be restricted or with all the flight cancellations , if rescheduled flight outside certain time frame , one can get a refund or credit with Delta. I agree not to cancel anything at this time.

 

[Amymouse13]

I have not cancelled our flight to Disney Saturday April 18 on American yet, I'm hopeful it will be cancelled or changed as then our points go back in our account (bank of America travel points) over a credit.

I'm not planning any vacations anytime soon. I'm not convinced this whole coronavirus thing will end soon... Even if it goes down, it may come back much worse. Refundable or not, not now and probably not for a good bit.

 

[SherylLC]

Read my prior post. I quoted sections from the rental agreement between the owner and renter. The fact that the owner has asked David's to facilitate payment doesn't change the fact that the actual rental agreement is between the owner and renter. By your logic an purchase paid with paypal would become a sale between paypal and the buyer and not the actual seller.

This is not true. There are two contracts. One between David's and the renter and another with David's and the owner. The renter never signs the same paper as the owner does. There is no contract between owner and renter.

I am so confused as to why people think it's the owners who are cheating the renters. It seems that pretty much all renters who have flexibility with their points are willing to work with renters but David's is dragging their feet and taking this option off the table until David is sure he is covered. That'll take some time and in the mean time, both renters and owners are getting shorted by his lack of action as points get less usable as time passes. Owners can't negotiate with renters on their own without breaking their contract with David.
ROCK||Owners||HARD PLACE.
Having to accept no vacation that was paid for up front or 70% of what was promised is unacceptable. The bad guy is David who is not caring for the people who have made him a ton of money over the years!

Someone made an argument that the points are only worth dues. This is also not true. The value of the points is what David agreed to pay for them. If you don't understand that, understand that if owners hadn't rented through David's they would have rented through a competitor or rented on their own. What you can rent them for is what their value is.

 

[weich1001]

Obviously this is bad all the way around for everyone involved (and even worse for family or relatives who actually contracted Covid 19 or lost a loved one during this time).

But assuming you have a future reservation for when the Resorts open up (sure hope they will eventually) AND David's goes out of business (for whatever reason but hopefully he or his team can figure this mess out)...What would be a fair solution for those left to deal with this Intermediary's disaster!

Obviously the Renter's paid alot of money to David's for the Reservation and his Fee's and have planned for their vacation...Owners can't refund a 100% of the money, as prior to arrival day they only receive 70% (of $14.50 or $15.50 per point/could even be less) Owners will be out the 30% (due from David's on arrival day) and if they allow the reservation to continue, will take on added risks of renting without a contract with a valid company.

I just don't see a way to make both remaining parties equally happy. So, what would a fair solution look like in your eyes? Your thoughts?

 

[SherylLC]

We have non-refundable tickets to London on Delta in June and non-refundable tickets on other European carriers, all booked last August. At this point I am 100% sure we cannot go and 90% expect to lose all the money - but there is zero benefit in me canceling.

Delta is giving 100% credit with no change fees which is good for TWO years on flights affected by COVID. You won't get cash back but you will have ample time to rebook something in the future.

 

[Dracula]

Delta is giving 100% credit with no change fees which is good for TWO years on flights affected by COVID. You won't get cash back but you will have ample time to rebook something in the future.

But they only do this for flights leaving through May 31st, and we are booked in June. For this date the regular cancellation applies - a $250 per ticket fee and the balance on a voucher expiring one year from ticketing, that means August 2020. No matter what we are not leaving the country now and risk being stuck in quarantine somewhere, so we may have to eat the loss. Very few will get out unscathed from this crisis.

 

[SherylLC]

But they only do this for flights leaving through May 31st, and we are booked in June. For this date the regular cancellation applies - a $250 per ticket fee and the balance on a voucher expiring one year from ticketing, that means August 2020. No matter what we are not leaving the country now and risk being stuck in quarantine somewhere, so we may have to eat the loss. Very few will get out unscathed from this crisis.

You're right...my apologies.

 

[crisi]

I don't think anyone ever considered this situation. My family booked trip to Europe for July and I booked non-refundable rooms to get discounted rate. It never even crossed my mind that we would not go. We have always taken our family vacations. Always. But because of covid-19 I had to cancel. No money refunded for 2 hotels. Those were the terms. The hotels kept the money. I agreed to those terms when I paid the discounted room rate. No one ever foresaw this situation. But it happened, and from now on the idea of non-refundable is off the table. I'm not sure what should happen here, but I feel for those who are out the money. There should be a way to make this work. Had I paid the refundable rate, I'd have the money back. Had some renters paid reservations through disney, they would have the money back already. Really bad situation for everyone. Be well, stay home to keep everyone healthy.

We are in the same boat - my husband and his 82 year old mother were supposed to be in Amsterdam and London this week and next. The airfare was refunded - because it was booked on points by a Platinum member, the hotels - sorry, out of luck. In one case the hotel did cancel the reservation - that hotel is completely closed down. Both hotels have offered some sort of "after this passes we will try and see what can be done" offer - but no refund and no specifics on what that might be - whether that will be the opportunity to reschedule or a hefty discount - or if those hotels are even in business after the hits they'll take (the one completely closed down was a small non-chain boutique hotel). And if Delta goes under (and they might - they only have cash on hand to operate for another month or so), those frequent flyer miles are gone as well.

 

[lovethesun12]

But it's far more beneficial to a renter than an owner, and that's why I will never rent out my DVC points until companies like David's pay market rates to owners. In my mind, the owners are doing the renters a huge favor that isn't worth the money David's is paying.

I would have to disagree with that. I guess it is beneficial in the fact that you may be able to book 11 months out, but the savings aren't always great. Last year a discount went on rack rate in Jan/Feb and I booked Beach Club Villas for $333/night average for 11 nights (cash stay from Disney). I don't think 25-30% off is unusual at all for Disney on a deluxe resort. With taxes, it came to $4120 with Disney. I just looked up the price for the exact same stay on David's website and it is $4066 (I know the price of David's had gone up a dollar or two per point this year, but still...not always phenomenal savings).

 

[Dracula]

We are in the same boat - my husband and his 82 year old mother were supposed to be in Amsterdam and London this week and next. The airfare was refunded - because it was booked on points by a Platinum member, the hotels - sorry, out of luck. In one case the hotel did cancel the reservation - that hotel is completely closed down. Both hotels have offered some sort of "after this passes we will try and see what can be done" offer - but no refund and no specifics on what that might be - whether that will be the opportunity to reschedule or a hefty discount - or if those hotels are even in business after the hits they'll take (the one completely closed down was a small non-chain boutique hotel). And if Delta goes under (and they might - they only have cash on hand to operate for another month or so), those frequent flyer miles are gone as well.

In recent airline bankruptcies, frequent flyer miles remained in place. Even if Delta is bankrupt, it would likely be nationalized and continue to operate on government support - it is the strongest US major airline and will be considered strategic.

 

[crisi]

In recent airline bankruptcies, frequent flyer miles remained in place. Even if Delta is bankrupt, it would likely be nationalized and continue to operate on government support - it is the strongest US major airline and will be considered strategic.

I wouldn't expect the frequent flyer miles to remain through nationalization - and I wouldn't expect the U.S. government to nationalize airlines. I suspect Delta will get bailed out, and if the past is any indication - with the top tier management making bank off our tax dollars - but we can hope for a "the U.S. comes to their senses" moment. I'm not worried about the frequent flyer miles - they are gravy - which is what they are SUPPOSED to be - if they are still there that's awesome, if they aren't, well...... In fact, vacation dollars in general are supposed to be gravy - so I'm not worried about the hotels either. We get some sort of credit for future or we don't. I'm more worried about the health of my 81 year old mother in law and if she will ever make this trip (my husband was born near Amsterdam and hasn't been back since he was a toddler - hence this trip). And that's regardless of Covid - she's just old and at some point, you don't do international travel any longer.

 

[DontSpamMe]

What an awful experience with the rental store. The member has not responded thus limiting my options if the park is closed. Thankfully I purchased their protection plan. I'll still be out a few hundred dollars, but I'm getting something back. These contracts 100% benefit the member and not the renter. My experience has soured me on this DVC nonsense. No way no how would I become a member.

 

[lawboy2001]

Obviously this is bad all the way around for everyone involved (and even worse for family or relatives who actually contracted Covid 19 or lost a loved one during this time).

But assuming you have a future reservation for when the Resorts open up (sure hope they will eventually) AND David's goes out of business (for whatever reason but hopefully he or his team can figure this mess out)...What would be a fair solution for those left to deal with this Intermediary's disaster!

Obviously the Renter's paid alot of money to David's for the Reservation and his Fee's and have planned for their vacation...Owners can't refund a 100% of the money, as prior to arrival day they only receive 70% (of $14.50 or $15.50 per point/could even be less) Owners will be out the 30% (due from David's on arrival day) and if they allow the reservation to continue, will take on added risks of renting without a contract with a valid company.

I just don't see a way to make both remaining parties equally happy. So, what would a fair solution look like in your eyes? Your thoughts?

If that is my situation for my rented reservations for later in the summer, I plan to just eat the loss of the 30% and have the renter check in per usual. You win some you lose some. I don't want to interfere with someone's vacation.

 

[Grnl706]

David's just posted an update on FB:

An Update for our Guests Impacted by the Disney Vacation Club Resort Closures:
We are issuing guests whose travel dates overlap the Disney Vacation Club Resort closures a Travel Credit through David’s Vacation Club Rentals.
We are finalizing with our legal partners and software engineers to develop the systems necessary to manage this situation and deliver the Travel Credit to you very soon.
At this time, we can share that this is what we are working on releasing:
• The Travel Credit will be equal to the paid dollar value of your original rental less any compensation you may have already received
• The Travel Credit is non-transferable
• The Travel Credit can be used for any service offered by David’s Vacation Club Rentals including but not limited to Point Rentals, Cash Bookings for rooms at Disney owned resorts, Disney Cruise Line Bookings, Adventure by Disney Bookings, Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines Bookings, or any other venue added at our discretion, based on availability
• The Travel Credit will be valid for 15 months from the date it is issued
We will be reaching out to guests soon to provide them with exact details about how the Credit works, the dollar value, how to redeem the Credit, and the terms and conditions.
We hope you have more news to share with you soon


I posed the question of what they consider "overlap" since the resorts are closed until further notice. My trip is in June and even though they are not officially closed for my dates right now, I would still need to reschedule. I'm hoping my question gets answered and not deleted!