Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Madame]

I didn’t receive the email you refer to.

Me either

 

[Maddiesmum03]

Nor me. The last email I had from them regarding a rental (starting from 19th April) said "let us know when points are returned and to what use year. we will then rent them and pay the final 30% when the reservation is made which should mean a very quick turnaround for you". I'm just reluctant to make a new reservation and unsure of receiving the 30%, but anything is better than being forced to return the 70% when I just don't have it. Maybe it's because they were borrowed Aug 2020 points, so if they do go back into the correct year as DVC say they will, then they are very useful points for David to use with his credit scheme. Just a thought but maybe only owners with very distressed points are getting that email?

 

[New Mouse]

Nor me. The last email I had from them regarding a rental (starting from 19th April) said "let us know when points are returned and to what use year. we will then rent them and pay the final 30% when the reservation is made which should mean a very quick turnaround for you". I'm just reluctant to make a new reservation and unsure of receiving the 30%, but anything is better than being forced to return the 70% when I just don't have it. Maybe it's because they were borrowed Aug 2020 points, so if they do go back into the correct year as DVC say they will, then they are very useful points for David to use with his credit scheme. Just a thought but maybe only owners with very distressed points are getting that email?

I wouldnt send anything back different than my original agreement unless a new contract and deal was initiated... hes obviously gonna try to rent out your points at full freight and give you the 30 %

 

[CraigInPA]

I didn’t receive the email you refer to.

Page 72 of this thread, post #1436, posted by Madame. I assumed it was an email, since Madame didn't state where it came from.

 

[mrsmnx]

Have any Davids renters gotten the email about the terms of the travel credit? Would you mind sharing the details? I had a late April reservation so the information has not been sent out yet to me yet but I would to see what they are offering.

 

[foodiddiedoo]

Have any Davids renters gotten the email about the terms of the travel credit? Would you mind sharing the details? I had a late April reservation so the information has not been sent out yet to me yet but I would to see what they are offering.

Nope, no travel credit email and my trip is already canceled. So much for Thursday!

 

[Madame]

Page 72 of this thread, post #1436, posted by Madame. I assumed it was an email, since Madame didn't state where it came from.

Yes, but sent because I specifically told them if DVC reversed their unborrowing of points before my reservation with them was cancelled by DVC, that I would be keeping the 70% and expected the 30% paid to me & that they knew my borrowed points would expire July 31 and that they had purchased those points and had use of them until they expired.

I don’t think it was unreasonable given that they KNOW point status when they give us a reservation to book. And that was the response... And that was when I decided I’d had enough. I will already be losing a large chunk of money as I now have to pay back US funds at a vastly higher exchange rate than when I received and used the funds. Yeah, they don’t care. And we are fortunate enough to both have secure savings and incomes during this time, so I’ll take the hit just to get out from under this contract, no matter the status of the points.

 

[SamRoc]

IMO people are trying to read exact and precise legal meaning into emails from Dave's that are meant to reassure and solve a problem. I am pretty confident this was not reviewed by an attorney prior to Dave sending it. It was send to me. It is accurate and unaltered outside me removing personal information. It asks "if" I would be willing to help. No demand no threat. They ask me not to cancel if it appear active and IMO that is pretty good advice for me and better for Dave. I have not contacted the renter yet because I am still in the banking window. Then Dave asks "work with us to see if there are any alternatives"

Dave does not say there has been contact with the renter and IMO the renter should make the decision on whether to gamble on Disney opening in late May/early June. I am waiting on an answer to this question. The idea of just returning the 70% is not developed at all. This is not really surprising to me. I assume it means in the event I get all my points back. It seem evident that only a fool would expect me to send the money back if my points have vanished. Waiting for an answer. Yet it is an 'ask' if I am willing. No threat and no demand. Dave states it is a big request.

Then since I have some of the money I am asked"if" i get my points back I would re-rent them. I presume this means without additional payment but don't know and I am waiting on a answer.

Dave specifically says the funds returned would go toward a travel credit and it would include Dave's commission. I assume but don't know Dave would take commission on use of the voucher.

"Good afternoon [DMU],

We are reaching out to you today in regards to the XXXXXX reservation.
As you are aware, COVID-19 has become a pandemic, and Disney Resorts and Operations has made the difficult but brave choice to close “until further notice”. The Disney Vacation Club is cancelling those reservations impacted by their decision and returning points to owner’s accounts.

As a result we are reaching out to inquire if you would be open to helping the XXXXXX family during this difficult time.

Reservation #XXXXXXXXXXX
Check in Date: May XX,2020
We ask, at this point, that you do not cancel this reservation if it appears active,but continue to work with us to see if there are any alternatives arrangements that we could pursue to assist this family.
We are asking if you would be willing to return the 70% for the XXXXX reservation. The funds that are returned will go towards a Travel Credit for the family. This Travel Credit will be in the total amount that the XXXXXX family paid for their reservation including our commission.
We understand that refunding the money is not feasible for all owners, in which case would you be willing to re-rent your returned points?By re-renting your returned points the funds from the new guest will go towards the Travel Credit.
We understand that this is a big request and a situation that we have never encountered. We are hoping that we can all work together to find a viable solution.
Please let us know if you are willing to assist.If you have any questions please don’t hesitate to reach out.
We look forward to hearing from you!"

We just received the same exact letter and are going over it now.

 

[Dracula]

Yes, but sent because I specifically told them if DVC reversed their unborrowing of points before my reservation with them was cancelled by DVC, that I would be keeping the 70% and expected the 30% paid to me & that they knew my borrowed points would expire July 31 and that they had purchased those points and had use of them until they expired.

I don’t think it was unreasonable given that they KNOW point status when they give us a reservation to book. And that was the response... And that was when I decided I’d had enough. I will already be losing a large chunk of money as I now have to pay back US funds at a vastly higher exchange rate than when I received and used the funds. Yeah, they don’t care. And we are fortunate enough to both have secure savings and incomes during this time, so I’ll take the hit just to get out from under this contract, no matter the status of the points.

Why do you want to make it even harder on yourself by returning the 70% with the lower CAD exchange rate? Just play along, offer to re-rent the points if possible; if the points expire, you keep the 70%; if you get a chance to re-rent, you get the rest of 30%. You don't even need to stress out over it, David would let you know when your points are needed.

 

[momincolorado]

Have any Davids renters gotten the email about the terms of the travel credit? Would you mind sharing the details? I had a late April reservation so the information has not been sent out yet to me yet but I would to see what they are offering.

Late March reservation for us, no e-mail. I doubt they will have much to offer unless owners are actually willing to work with them. And from what I’m seeing on this thread, they are not exactly doing their best to maintain a decent working relationship with owners. I personally think that chargeback is the way to go here.

 

[Sandisw]

I wouldn't know about their volume but they appear to be a pretty big operation. I think they're not discussed on here because they're not allowed because David used to be sponsor. I initially went with them because they pay more pp then Davids and more upfront. But I've had nothing but positive experiences with them and I've done quite a few rentals over the years.

Please refer to this in regards to DIS policies about businesses.
DIS guidelines

 

[Madame]

Why do you want to make it even harder on yourself by returning the 70% with the lower CAD exchange rate? Just play along, offer to re-rent the points if possible; if the points expire, you keep the 70%; if you get a chance to re-rent, you get the rest of 30%. You don't even need to stress out over it, David would let you know when your points are needed.

If I needed the money, I would. If this is the price I need to pay to get this off my plate, then so be it. However the lesson has been learned; I’m a fool me once, never again person.

I think if it were substantially more points I might feel differently, but at 52 points, I’ll write it off as a bad experience hopefully soon to be a bad memory.

 

[disney4me4ever]

I know one thing...I will never rent points again. We rented points last July with David’s; they are APR 2020 use year, so we’re ok that way. But I don’t like the thought of entering into *another* contract with Davids, since the original one was basically meaningless. The ppl who rented the points want to travel again, but outside our use year, so we can’t really help them with a new ressie, unless I borrowed points. I’ve agonized so much over all of this, I really would like to just forfeit the 30% and walk away. Instead of re-renting the original points to David’s, I’d rather donate them to a nurse who is working in a COVID unit. If anyone deserves some Disney Magic, they do. What a mess.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

Yes frustration of purpose is close to and often mistaken for impossibility. Since they are not generally self standing lawsuits they are further confused. Both are remedies for a breach of contract lawsuit. Both are also not remedies at law but at equity. Since they are equity remedies the mitigation of damages would/will play a vital role.

Here is where the destiny of the points becomes more important. If the points are gone then the hit will not go to the owner. If the points are safe the owner will not be allowed to double dip.


I would love to see the rest of this or the source documents.

People need to wake up.
Per their lawyers:
View attachment 488399

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

Cases filed in FL will be heard in FL pursuant to FL choice of law and venue provision. IMO there is no way a FL judge allows this to leave FL. The real estate is in FL. Most transaction were in FL. As you posted a few days ago, LAW controls CONTRACTS.

You're missing the fact that David's contract specifies the contract is governed under the laws of Canada, not Florida. So, while what you've quoted is interesting, it's not relevant to the contracts in question.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I know the subject of this thread is David's but I have rented points out for an early June reservation through another leading broker, and this is the email I just received from them, which I thought some might be interested in for comparison:

Hi (my name),
The global pandemic known as the corona virus has recently affected every aspect of everyone’s daily life. Due to the pandemic, Disneyland and Disney World closed the parks indefinitely. Many people have vacations that have been affected. We are currently working with these guests to ensure that everything is done to have the best outcome possible for everyone. One of your guests has been affected and needs your help. We are sorry to put this additional burden on you, but this is uncharted territory for all of us.
The guests are considering postponing their trip, and were wondering what your home resort is when your points expire so they can find a travel date before then.
Rest assured per your agreement, no matter what the outcome, the intermediary agreement will be honored and all funds due to you will be paid. We appreciate your help with this matter.
Thank you,

A friendly and reasonable request and I replied that of course I'm happy to do anything I can to help with rescheduling the trip.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

As I posted earlier my renter is for the end of May. I have not received this email. Of course I still have not received a response to my email with questions to Dave either.

Clearly Dave is playing from behind, not doing it well, not anticipating problems or taking into account that what happens to the points, or the value of the points is going to be the most important part of any lawsuit.

I have never checked the price of filing in Canada or service but I really don't see him being able sue all these individuals nor do I see him attempting to bootstrap individual owners by filing against Disney.

What I find interesting is that this new contract does not require the owner to refund the deposit payment (70%) in the event of a Force Majeure, but it also doesn't say that the owner gets to keep it either. It excuses the Intermediary from paying the 30% final fee, which apparently will be used to fund the "Credit" for the renter. In his email today to Owners affected by the closure, David's states that his attorney's opinion is that the Owner must re-pay the 70%. One has to wonder if the omission in the new contract is on purpose, either to not freak out owners if David's demands a refund from them, or to hide the fact that his correspondence to owners today is at odds with his latest contract.

There's no way I'd rent my points with them ever again. This is all just too shady.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

It would be great if you could post that.

Thats interesting. I have it in writing from them that my contract has been completed and that even if "my renter" succeeds with a charge back against them I will owe David's nothing.

 

[McCrae]

Yes frustration of purpose is close to and often mistaken for impossibility. Since they are not generally self standing lawsuits they are further confused. Both are remedies for a breach of contract lawsuit. Both are also not remedies at law but at equity. Since they are equity remedies the mitigation of damages would/will play a vital role.

Here is where the destiny of the points becomes more important. If the points are gone then the hit will not go to the owner. If the points are safe the owner will not be allowed to double dip.


I would love to see the rest of this or the source documents.

The approach David’s are taking appear to contradict the document on advice posted. David’s request to let them re-rent points to another renter and not the original renter could if the legal advice is correct create a position where points have been re-rented and the owner still has an obligation to the original renter.

 

[Madame]

Yes frustration of purpose is close to and often mistaken for impossibility. Since they are not generally self standing lawsuits they are further confused. Both are remedies for a breach of contract lawsuit. Both are also not remedies at law but at equity. Since they are equity remedies the mitigation of damages would/will play a vital role.

Here is where the destiny of the points becomes more important. If the points are gone then the hit will not go to the owner. If the points are safe the owner will not be allowed to double dip.


I would love to see the rest of this or the source documents.

I’ve been around these boards a while. Most times I am annoyingly forthright, sometimes a ridiculous SJW and a bit of a drama queen (I’m French speaking, it comes with the territory ). I am *not* known to be a disseminator of misinformation. All that said, just so that we know where we stand.

I have no idea which doc this info they inserted into their email to me came from. I don’t believe the lawyers are timeshare-specific lawyers. I would be interested in knowing how much the law firm understands about points/UY timeshares, & specifically if they understand that David’s knows the precise expiration date & limitation of every point they “buy.”