Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[DisneyBB]

I think it will change how people rent their points. For instance if I did rent again I would ensure I only took rentals for the first 8 months of my use year. Def not use banked points. So the pool of potential owners renting will go down as most people will think this way.

 

[Bearval]

This is the section of the contract is showing what would happen if the booking was cancelled through no fault of the owner.

12. In the event of a Force Majeure (as defined in this paragraph), each party shall be excused from any future performance of obligations under this agreement; provided, however that if Intermediary has collected 100% of the funds for the reservation from Renter, Intermediary will provide to Renter a Credit which is limited in value to the amount paid for the reservation which is _______________ US Dollars on such terms and conditions as determined by Intermediary in its sole discretion, as soon as is reasonably possible after the condition(s) constituting the Force Majeure event is/are notified by Intermediary to Renter and Owner. A Force Majeure is an event beyond the Intermediary’s reasonable control which renders performance of a rental reservation with respect to Owner’s rented points impossible or substantially impaired, including without limitation, acts of God, acts of government, embargoes, war, riot, epidemic, pandemic, natural disaster, governmental order restrictions and Disney Vacation Club closures or cancellation of reservations.

The other section is if the owner cancels.

But here is the problem with the contract. If an owner has to wait until DVC cancels the reservation even though it is obvious that the resort will be closed weeks in advance of when DVC does the cancelations it may be past the time the owner can bank the points to the next year. There is no guarantee that DVC will extend the life of the points again. In the new contract only The renter and David's is left whole. Owners get screwed.

 

[Amymouse13]

Well if owners and renters don't like David's terms, I'm sure there are other dvc rental companies or soon will be... If David's leaves a vacuum it will soon be filled by a more astute business person that is perhaps more ethical and just.... IMO

 

[Bowen Family]

But here is the problem with the contract. If an owner has to wait until DVC cancels the reservation even though it is obvious that the resort will be closed weeks in advance of when DVC does the cancelations it may be past the time the owner can bank the points to the next year. There is no guarantee that DVC will extend the life of the points again. In the new contract only The renter and David's is left whole. Owners get screwed.

I wouldn’t personally describe the voucher being offered to renters as being made whole. David’s reserves the right to modify and even rescind the voucher as they see fit. Under the new terms of unforeseen cancellations, it seems members can be made whole if they are able to re-use their returned points; and renters only if/after their credit results in a completed stay. So good outcomes are still possible for both parties, but with lots more uncertainty. Except, of course, no uncertainty for David’s. They’ve definitely covered themselves.

 

[Bowen Family]

I wouldn’t personally describe the voucher being offered to renters as being made whole. David’s reserves the right to modify and even rescind the voucher as they see fit. Under the new terms of unforeseen cancellations, it seems members can be made whole if they are able to re-use their returned points; and renters only if/after their credit results in a completed stay. So good outcomes are still possible for both parties, but with lots more uncertainty. Except, of course, no uncertainty for David’s. They’ve definitely covered themselves.

EDIT: I just read the new sample rental agreement, and it’s different than the voucher terms offered for current cancellations. Yeah, agreed, these terms really aren’t great for members unless you’re assured of using returned points. But since a lot of members rent out ‘older’ points, it leaves you at higher risk.

 

[Bearval]

EDIT: I just read the new sample rental agreement, and it’s different than the voucher terms offered for current cancellations. Yeah, agreed, these terms really aren’t great for members unless you’re assured of using returned points. But since a lot of members rent out ‘older’ points, it leaves you at higher risk.

I don't have ever have a huge amount of excess points if any at all. If I do I will offer them for rent to family, friends or to church members at a $1.00 cheaper than a place such as David's and I will use contract. If an incident arises out of everyone's control i(such as another pandemic) I would eat the loss if there was one but I would have the ability to work with the renter to reschedule or cancel so that no one loses anything.

 

[CraigInPA]

They do. There is also a limit on the number of points an individual may own. 4000 points maximum at any one resort and 8000 points across all DVC resorts. This is across any and all contracts that have your name on it.

Apparently, the limit is based upon how the title reads. So, John A. Doe gets the first 8000, John B. Doe gets the next 8000, and so on.

 

[Kaufeegurl]

I have been following this thread and I will NEVER rent my excess points through David's again. I used him twice for reservations last year and the rentals were flawless, but the exposure of his character and his new contract guarantees I will not use his company again. In fact, if I have excess points going forward, I will go the transfer route with this site's sponsor - I truly do not want to hold a reservation for a renter again. It will be interesting to see if he even survives this as I think a lot of owners' eyes have been opened (mine included) and they will look for alternatives to the admittedly prior ease of renting points through what was thought a reputable company. And renters will not be flocking back when they calculate how little savings they get along with an onerous contract compared to the assurance of booking directly with Disney.

 

[Dracula]

The renters are David’s clients, not the owners’ clients. This is on him and he knows it as evidenced by the ridiculous new contract which totally absolves him of any responsibility at all. I’m curious, now that we’ve seen the contract @Dracula, if you will still rent out via David’s. Not being snarky, genuinely looking for your take.

Bonjour Madame,
As I read the clause that owner needs to refund David in full in case of force majeure, irrespective of points status, so David can issue his credit voucher to the renter, I am inclined to not rent through David again, especially if other brokers offer other, more fair ways to split the loss caused by force majeure. Hopefully other brokers would rise to fill the gap, or maybe an owner co-op.

 

[Madame]

Bonjour Madame,
As I read the clause that owner needs to refund David in full in case of force majeure, irrespective of points status, so David can issue his credit voucher to the renter, I am inclined to not rent through David again, especially if other brokers offer other, more fair ways to split the loss caused by force majeure. Hopefully other brokers would rise to fill the gap, or maybe an owner co-op.

That's the way I was reading it too. Thanks for updating!

 

[akadk]

The renters are David’s clients, not the owners’ clients. This is on him and he knows it as evidenced by the ridiculous new contract which totally absolves him of any responsibility at all. I’m curious, now that we’ve seen the contract @Dracula, if you will still rent out via David’s. Not being snarky, genuinely looking for your take.

Once we received the "new language", we started this process understanding this situation was no one's fault. Since we disagreed with new terms, we simply contacted David's and asked to waive the language of "if next trip is cancelled, money lost." We didn't want a refund from owner or David's. Once they declined to "make any exceptions in fairness to all clients", things got weird.

No, we would not use David's again if contracts have any disclaimers that include the possibility of no trip and loss of funds. Note: We already have another November 2020 trip booked - separate booking - not looking forward to that potential outcome either.

 

[cmrdgrs]

Bonjour Madame,
As I read the clause that owner needs to refund David in full in case of force majeure, irrespective of points status, so David can issue his credit voucher to the renter, I am inclined to not rent through David again, especially if other brokers offer other, more fair ways to split the loss caused by force majeure. Hopefully other brokers would rise to fill the gap, or maybe an owner co-op.

To summarize what I think I understand in reading the last few pages:

David has a new clause that requires owners to refund the 70% in the event of a force majeure. However, he keeps his commission, and when the owner refunds David, he will only issue a travel voucher to the renter (I assume under the same terms the travel voucher has now). So, he just put in to writing what he was trying to do right now, but couldn't because it wasn't in the original Agreement signed with the owner.

Also, if the cost of a replacement room has increased, the owner now is responsible to pay the difference for "suitable accommodations" and David has the sole discretion to decide what he constituents as suitable and equal to the original rental?

 

[devlin447]

I follow these thread pretty closely. Just some info that i just found out from my credit card that might be helpful.

I spoke to Chase Visa about charge backs for an upcoming trip i have in May.

First.. I am not able to file the charge back until the trip is officially cancelled by Davids.

Second.. If you are unhappy with the voucher idea you can still file a charge back.

Third.. If you take the voucher option and reschedule for say, November, and Davids goes bankrupt in June you can still file for a charge back and most likely get your money back.

Thank you for sharing. I have an upcoming rental myself and have been debating my options.

I wasn't able to find in a previous thread but has anyone actually had any luck with executing a credit card charge back? I am just curious if it is even really a viable option.

I also have travel insurance but not the Cancel for Any Reason kind. I know every policy is different but has anyone had any luck with travel insurance that wasn't cancel for any reason?

Lastly, has anyone accepted the travel credit from Davids? On the surface, it seems like a resonable solution to a very difficult problem. There is just so much risk involved that I won't know the outcome of until I reschedule and go on said vacation.

Thanks.

 

[Sandisw]

To summarize what I think I understand in reading the last few pages:

David has a new clause that requires owners to refund the 70% in the event of a force majeure. However, he keeps his commission, and when the owner refunds David, he will only issue a travel voucher to the renter (I assume under the same terms the travel voucher has now). So, he just put in to writing what he was trying to do right now, but couldn't because it wasn't in the original Agreement signed with the owner.

Also, if the cost of a replacement room has increased, the owner now is responsible to pay the difference for "suitable accommodations" and David has the sole discretion to decide what he constituents as suitable and equal to the original rental?

The owner is only responsible for the cost difference if they cancel.

 

[cmrdgrs]

The owner is only responsible for the cost difference if they cancel.

I've been trying to follow the posts of the Agreement changes and it's been confusing. I wish I had the old and the new side-by-side.

What new paragraph is that spelled out in? I saw a #12 & #14

Again, an effort to stop what's happening now, some owners cancelling or re-booking a renter behind David's back as the intermediary?

 

[Bowen Family]

Thank you for sharing. I have an upcoming rental myself and have been debating my options.

I wasn't able to find in a previous thread but has anyone actually had any luck with executing a credit card charge back? I am just curious if it is even really a viable option.

I also have travel insurance but not the Cancel for Any Reason kind. I know every policy is different but has anyone had any luck with travel insurance that wasn't cancel for any reason?

Lastly, has anyone accepted the travel credit from Davids? On the surface, it seems like a resonable solution to a very difficult problem. There is just so much risk involved that I won't know the outcome of until I reschedule and go on said vacation.

Thanks.

I haven’t seen a single report yet on outcomes of chargebacks, and there was someone on here yesterday that filed theirs back in March. So it clearly takes time.

I have seen one report of a denied insurance claim on the grounds that the voucher was offered, but with the caveat they could try again if the voucher failed to deliver.

 

[Sandisw]

I've been trying to follow the posts of the Agreement changes and it's been confusing. I wish I had the old and the new side-by-side.

What new paragraph is that spelled out in? I saw a #12 & #14

Again, an effort to stop what's happening now, some owners cancelling or re-booking a renter behind David's back as the intermediary?

The paragraph about an owner being responsible is in the contract for the renter that the owner is a part of along with the renter and broker,

The part about returning the 70% paid to them in the event of a force majeure is the owners contract,

So, based on that, even if I was considering them in the future, which I am not, these clauses would turn me way off.

 

[momincolorado]

Thank you for sharing. I have an upcoming rental myself and have been debating my options.

I wasn't able to find in a previous thread but has anyone actually had any luck with executing a credit card charge back? I am just curious if it is even really a viable option.

I also have travel insurance but not the Cancel for Any Reason kind. I know every policy is different but has anyone had any luck with travel insurance that wasn't cancel for any reason?

Lastly, has anyone accepted the travel credit from Davids? On the surface, it seems like a resonable solution to a very difficult problem. There is just so much risk involved that I won't know the outcome of until I reschedule and go on said vacation.

Thanks.

Quite a few renters have chargebacks pending with provisional credits placed back to their accounts and awaiting final outcome.

I know that credit card travel insurance is a no go due to the voucher option but the chargeback is an option even if the insurance is not.

Personally, I could not accept the voucher under T&Cs that clearly state that David’s is under no obligation to fulfill it in the first place. I also think there is a good possibility that he won’t have enough points to make the vouchers work leaving the renter with cash booking (that does not qualify for the same promotions and cancellation benefits that Disney offers) as the only option. And of course if he goes under, the vouchers are completely worthless. I would much rather take my chances with the chargeback, put the money back into my account and not have it tied up with David’s. If the chargeback is successful, I can then make my own decisions about what works best for accommodations going forward.

He has also indicated to renters that the voucher option will remain on the table if the chargeback fails so the way I see it, there is nothing to lose by going the chargeback route first.

 

[Amymouse13]

Seems in summary in the new contract if pandemic hits everyone has agreed to pay David's and as renter is offered a voucher and agreed to force majeure clause, no chargeback. Basically David wins, everyone else stands to lose, just so we all know the new game.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

They do. There is also a limit on the number of points an individual may own. 4000 points maximum at any one resort and 8000 points across all DVC resorts. This is across any and all contracts that have your name on it.

Darn! 4000 points is just a little shy of allowing me to move into AKV as my permanent residence!

Seems in summary in the new contract if pandemic hits everyone has agreed to pay David's and as renter is offered a voucher and agreed to force majeure clause, no chargeback. Basically David wins, everyone else stands to lose, just so we all know the new game.