Desperately need parental advice!

[Pigeon]

This is really hard, and in the long run, how you respond may not have much impact on her relationship with this guy.

My teens know that we don't put up with disrespect in our house. I would probably approach it from that perspective. She's an adult and she's living in your house, mostly on your dime, so she can be pleasant or she can support herself. Frankly, I wouldn't put up with crap like that in my own home.

I would probably not harp on this guy. She already knows you don't like him and think he's bad news. I might try to have one calm discussion and explain why you are concerned (her safety, signs of abuse or overly controlling behavior on his part), but after that drop it. I'd let her know that if she ever felt in an unsafe situation, you would be there for her.

My sisters and I always joked that our mother would never give us a straight answer about any guy we dated. He could be Charlie Manson, and she'd say, "He seems nice, dear." I think she didn't want to make a guy more appealing because of parental disapproval.

 

[2Kds2K9]

Okay, she won't sit down to talk, so how about writing things out in a letter. Sounds weird, but my DD18 and I have discussed several issues this way. Gives you time to compose your thoughts and allows her to read the letter several times before responding. Tell her your hopes and dreams for her, and also include the exact expenses you are covering. Seeing the amount in black and white along with the totals will probably be a huge eye opener for her, and you as well. As an adult, she needs to know those facts.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

Ok, I skimmed some of the other responses, and might have missed some...but based on the OP, I would suggest NOT pulling the "move out or dump him" move.

She will probably move out, and then you will not have a lot of oversight in the situtation and things could turn bad quickly.

If it were my daughter (mine is only 13 right now, and things are tough enough, so you have my sympathy) I would prefer she stay at home if she were in such a situation...my thought is trying to drive them apart is only going to push them closer and drive you further from her for the time being...as a dad I know the "my roof, my rules" thing is easy to believe, but being flexible on this, she might see the light sooner than later, and you will be close to keep an eye on how things are going.

That's my take, how I would handle it.

 

[Vernie822]

She is in a 2 yr Physical Therapy Assistant program. It is highly selective and she was accepted into it off a wait listl. It was such a blessing that she got in. I do think she realizes this, which is why she is working much harder this year than last year. (different college, different degree)

She is funding most of her education from loans, we just don't have it. She does get need based financial aid, and we did buy her a good used car with great gas mileage so she could get to school. We cover her car insurance and of course her health expenses. We bought her books, and since the program is highly selective, there were no scholarships from the school itself, so we picked up the difference there as well.

DH and I just went and took out a second mortgage on our house as we depleted our checking account to cover the expenses for the new college. I am more than willing to do this as the program is worth it. And I know she will at least have a skill that can lead to a good paying profession. My son is graduating this year, top of his class, so we are going to be hit with more expenses very soon.

The first boyfriend was a money drain as she was driving him all over the place, then she would get angry with us because we told her she needed to pay for gas for the car. At that time, the school was 10 minutes away so she should not have been going through $100 a week in gas money. Work is 5 minutes from home.

She is also angry we aren't footing the entire expense for college. We don't have it. I have tried having a reasonable discussion about this and the costs we are picking up. Anytime I try to sit down and talk to her like a young adult, she just gets nasty and gets up and walks away.

So yes, I end up yelling, but it is usually after the constant attitude and frustration in her unwillingness to listen to anything.

She wants what she wants and doesn't want to hear anything anyone has to say. I also found out she has been giving his mother money to help out the boyfriend, probably legal fees.

With the new program, it is farther away, but she will only have a year and a half there as the second semester of her final year is doing clinicals. She was looking for an apartment nearer the school, but it was so when the boyfriend gets out of jail, they can live together.

We never had the finances to spoil our kids with material things, but in many ways I think we spoiled her in trying to accomadate her wishes in most things she wanted to do. That is why I think she is so incredibly ticked off now, becasue we can't support this relationship.

I feel like you have done SO MUCH for your daughter - she will appreciate it. I think she needs a bit of a reality check, like a PP said. Not to be rude - but as the oldest of 3 (I think?) children, she is SOO LUCKY to have parents that are helping her out with her education.

I like many others foot the bill for my own schooling. Worked hard to earn scholarships. Took out student loans to cover the remainder just like everyone else. I didn't want to ask my parents for any money - it was my education that I was choosing to pursue. As the oldest of 5 kids I would never have expected my parents to pay for my books or anything like that. Just like many others who have been to school. I am sure she appreciates you. Hopefully she realizes what life would be like without amazing supportive parents like you!!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

She is in a 2 yr Physical Therapy Assistant program. It is highly selective and she was accepted into it off a wait listl. It was such a blessing that she got in. I do think she realizes this, which is why she is working much harder this year than last year. (different college, different degree)

She is funding most of her education from loans, we just don't have it. She does get need based financial aid, and we did buy her a good used car with great gas mileage so she could get to school. We cover her car insurance and of course her health expenses. We bought her books, and since the program is highly selective, there were no scholarships from the school itself, so we picked up the difference there as well.

DH and I just went and took out a second mortgage on our house as we depleted our checking account to cover the expenses for the new college. I am more than willing to do this as the program is worth it. And I know she will at least have a skill that can lead to a good paying profession. My son is graduating this year, top of his class, so we are going to be hit with more expenses very soon.

The first boyfriend was a money drain as she was driving him all over the place, then she would get angry with us because we told her she needed to pay for gas for the car. At that time, the school was 10 minutes away so she should not have been going through $100 a week in gas money. Work is 5 minutes from home.

She is also angry we aren't footing the entire expense for college. We don't have it. I have tried having a reasonable discussion about this and the costs we are picking up. Anytime I try to sit down and talk to her like a young adult, she just gets nasty and gets up and walks away.

So yes, I end up yelling, but it is usually after the constant attitude and frustration in her unwillingness to listen to anything.

She wants what she wants and doesn't want to hear anything anyone has to say. I also found out she has been giving his mother money to help out the boyfriend, probably legal fees.

With the new program, it is farther away, but she will only have a year and a half there as the second semester of her final year is doing clinicals. She was looking for an apartment nearer the school, but it was so when the boyfriend gets out of jail, they can live together.

We never had the finances to spoil our kids with material things, but in many ways I think we spoiled her in trying to accomadate her wishes in most things she wanted to do. That is why I think she is so incredibly ticked off now, becasue we can't support this relationship.

So she is planning on moving out with him already, so how many months until then?

Alrighty, more info....

1) I would tell her that we are going to sign over the car to her, by X date, and she needs to get her own car insurance. (Provided this is already not the case.)

2) I would continue to help her with medical expenses while she is in school.

3) I would share half of the cost of her books.

4) I will help her out with finishing her degree. Come to a dollar agreement there.

Sounds like you just have to bide your time for a short while really. She sounds pretty committed to her path. Just be upfront and clear with the things you are going to help her with from a "bill" perspective.

 

[Wishing on a star]

My flame suit it on here. As I am going to be very up-front with my thoughts. I believe that in this kind of situation, regarding one's adult child, and a felon with charges of abuse, that there is just no other way to be.

First, she is not 17, or 18, or even 19 (very soon).
We are basically talking about a 20 year old adult.
She WILL do what she is gonna do.
That is the first thing I want to say.
I know that it is almost impossible to fully comprehend.
And it know it must hurt, so very badly.
Nothing hurts worse than to see one's child making mistakes and engaging in what seem to be self-destructive, self defeating, behaviors.

Just in the tone of the original post.. I am seeing a pretty strong sense of treating this young woman like a child. Terms like 'nice kid'... the fact that she seems to be living with you, responsibility free, driving your car, etc...

I feel pretty certain that this is a very two edged sword.
Sure, she is taking advantage of what she can, but she would have to be very very defensive and resentful of being 'the child'.

I think that there could possibly be some other things going on with your daughter that have brought her this far in this situation. A person with strong sense of self and good self esteem is not likely to continue seek relationships with losers and felons.

While I would be very concerned about whatever is going on INSIDE your daughter. At 20 years of age, I think that may be too late. Unfortunately, I would be afraid that dealing with this by dealing with whatever issues are behind your daughters choices, is just no longer possible.

I see this in the same way I see situations where loved ones are addicts or suffer from issues with mental health, etc... All of the advice out there is pretty standard. It is not good to go on and on, thinking onw is 'helping', but actually enabling, covering for, that person and being taken advantage of. One has be able to take stronger measures and use some Tough Love.

While there are no easy answers. And, I know that.... I think that I might be inclined to have this adult, begin to take responsibility for their own life, their own decisions, etc. And that would mean that they would not continue to be living under my roof.

Not liking your teens boyfriend/girlfriend is one thing.
But, an adult felon is another. And I do not think that there is any way that I could welcome/enable/condone that into my home.

I know that this is probably being met with a huge ***GASP!!!!*** and hatred and judgement by some posters here on the DIS. And, if so, so be it.

 

[spima3]

This is exactly how I feel. I don't think that the "tough love" will do anything but send her running to him and his family. OP, I think your #1 priority is to keep her in college and on the right track for independence. While there is will be surrounded by men that are not felons and abusers so she can continue to see the difference in people making something of themselves and 33-year old loser "bad boy" parents who want to sleep with teens.

I wouldn't look at it as giving into her, but as a way to support her as she figures things out. He will eventually show his true self. If his true self is who she thinks he is, then it's all good. If he's who you think he is, you will be right there for her.

But HOW should we go about this.

DH doesn't want her seeing him at all while she's in school. I don't think we are going to stop that, so I think we should use it. ??

I was thinking as long as she continues to do well in school, we will continue to support her and relax on the dating issue. (Although he did state in his letter he can't wait to get out so they can spend the night together.)

There will be no overnights?

She can see him twice a week, but there will be a curfew? I just afraid she will start skipping work so she can spend more time with him, which she did when he was first caught up in the arrest. I know before he barely worked so had a lot of time on his hands, and she spent a lot of time with him over the summer. Yes, they would smoke weed and drink.

He has been here, and he did seem to be a nice guy, but obviously messed up. Do we allow him to come here? With all the issues I can't imagine he would want to, but I know my DH will not be happy.

She has made almost $7K this year and has $10 in the bank. Other than gas for the car, she has no other expenses other than what she wants to spend.

Due to the lack of aid from the school, I want her to start giving us $125/month. Last month she went throught nearly $600. So I was thinking at least we can put that aside to help us with tuition next year, as she simply won't do it for herself.

Do we sit down with him and have this talk? Again, is it better to get everything on the table, or just let everything slide?

I am also done with the disrespect and disregard for everyone in this family. If we don't get it, and she can't abide by the rules, she will need to leave?

I don't know if I am being too controlling or too lenient? And I have to get DH to agree with it.

 

[jrmasm]

She lies, sneaks around, is disrespectful, smokes pots and drinks under age?

Sorry but that kid wouldn't get another dime from me.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am seeing the above post from the OP just that came in.
I am like...

So, she does have some money.
Yet you are financially depleted and mortgaging your house.

She is a 20 year old adult, and in a relationship with another adult, who is a felon.... and 'spending the night' is even mentioned as an issue to you. (talk about the 'child mentality' thing)

And, she is 'angry' because you are not funding her 110% in college and life finances, including a car, and even EXTRA GAS for the car.

Sorry, I just don't even seeing things getting even halfway that far with my son. (who is still just a teen, not an adult. )

Ask yourself, what is more important to your daughter.
Being successful and completing this program.
Or being committed to a felon who is currently in prison.

Remember, this program is just not the answer to all of the ongoing issues and problems here.

 

[Pigeon]

I sort of think you are being both too controlling and too lenient. How's that for confusing?

I think it's perfectly reasonable to establish rules about what you will permit in your home. You have the right to be treated with politeness and you can establish that your dd pull her weight around the house, whether that's with chores or by contributing to household expenses. You can establish that drugs aren't acceptable in your house.

But you can't control whether or not she sees this creep or whether they are together in ways that don't meet your approval. I think you can say he's not welcome in your house, but I think trying to control whether she stays overnight with him isn't going to help. And people participate in "adult activities" during the daytime, if that's what you're trying to forbid.

 

[tina.tina]

It sounds to me like your family needs counseling. Since you asked, it sounds to me like your daughter walks all over you. I couldn't have let things go so far without some intervention. Tell your DD that you feel like you need to try to preserve your relationship with her and you are past the point where you need some mediation. Tell her to pick out a counselor from a list and you can all try to improve things. Make this a condition of her continuing to live at home. I would really be honest with her and tell her you love her but can't stand her disrespectful behavior.

To me, the boyfriend is the least of your problems if your DD is allowed to act like she does.

I wrote this and didn't even see the part about pot and underage drinking. Not breaking the law would also be a condition of her continuing to live in my house.

 

[Wishing on a star]

It sounds to me like your family needs counseling. Since you asked, it sounds to me like your daughter walks all over you. I couldn't have let things go so far without some intervention. Tell your DD that you feel like you need to try to preserve your relationship with her and you are past the point where you need some mediation. Tell her to pick out a counselor from a list and you can all try to improve things. Make this a condition of her continuing to live at home. I would really be honest with her and tell her you love her but can't stand her disrespectful behavior.

To me, the boyfriend is the least of your problems if your DD is allowed to act like she does.

I agree with your sentiments, Tina.
But, something tells me that this is just not going to happen.
I feel that the daughter would grab her stuff and walk out of the house before she would go seek any outside assistance/counseling.

If that were to happen, I think I would hold the door open for her.

 

[aaarcher86]

But HOW should we go about this. DH doesn't want her seeing him at all while she's in school. I don't think we are going to stop that, so I think we should use it. ?? I was thinking as long as she continues to do well in school, we will continue to support her and relax on the dating issue. (Although he did state in his letter he can't wait to get out so they can spend the night together.) There will be no overnights? She can see him twice a week, but there will be a curfew? I just afraid she will start skipping work so she can spend more time with him, which she did when he was first caught up in the arrest. I know before he barely worked so had a lot of time on his hands, and she spent a lot of time with him over the summer. Yes, they would smoke weed and drink. He has been here, and he did seem to be a nice guy, but obviously messed up. Do we allow him to come here? With all the issues I can't imagine he would want to, but I know my DH will not be happy. She has made almost $7K this year and has $10 in the bank. Other than gas for the car, she has no other expenses other than what she wants to spend. Due to the lack of aid from the school, I want her to start giving us $125/month. Last month she went throught nearly $600. So I was thinking at least we can put that aside to help us with tuition next year, as she simply won't do it for herself. Do we sit down with him and have this talk? Again, is it better to get everything on the table, or just let everything slide? I am also done with the disrespect and disregard for everyone in this family. If we don't get it, and she can't abide by the rules, she will need to leave? I don't know if I am being too controlling or too lenient? And I have to get DH to agree with it.

Anything you allow with your oldest will be what the younger two expect when the time comes.... You're letting her set the example.

 

[tina.tina]

I agree with your sentiments, Tina.
But, something tells me that this is just not going to happen.
I feel that the daughter would grab her stuff and walk out of the house before she would go seek any outside assistance/counseling.

If that were to happen, I think I would hold the door open for her.

Anything you allow with your oldest will be what the younger two expect when the time comes.... You're letting her set the example.

Sometimes, you have to let go. You can't let one "kid" ruin your life and the lives of your other kids. She is over 18 and you are no longer legally obligated to her. You may feel morally obligated but your kids under 18 should really take precedence. Get into family counseling.

 

[luvsJack]

Ok, you found letters while you were painting your almost 20 year old's room and read them?

There is a lot more here than the bad boyfriend.

Sit down and come to an agreement between you, dh and her. Who will pay for what and how you will help her with school. And what the rules are while she is there. And be willing to listen to what she needs from you too. Maybe she needs a little breathing room and to feel like she is being treated like an adult not a child.

If it was me, I would try to pay as much of the school expenses as possible. PTA is a fantastic program and career choice. She will do well in that field and will be financially able to be independent. But I would stipulate that the help in that area remains as long as she is doing well in her classes.

She can continue paying for the gas in the car and perhaps at least her insurance. And I would have her start paying a small amount to you (not too small but not so large it makes it impossible) each month for expenses. If you want to put the money up for her, so be it but make sure she pays it. She needs to see what its like to have to pay for things.

It seems to me that you and your dh are treating her like a child. At this point in her life, you do not get to dictate who she spends time with (even if you are paying her bills). You can refuse to allow the man to come to your house or around you and your family but what she does when you are not there is her business, she is an adult.

You can settle on some household rules. Being pleasant to others in the house is a rule you can have. Don't expect her to suddenly love being pleasant but if she does it enough, it will become a habit.

She needs to know what you expect and what she can expect from you.

Counseling is not a bad idea at all. But I really think that this is a young woman that has been treated like a child and is wanting to spread her wings all at one time. She is not making the best choices in men but she may see these men as "grown ups" who will treat her like a woman rather than a girl.

 

[jrmasm]

Anything you allow with your oldest will be what the younger two expect when the time comes.... You're letting her set the example.

As the parent of a young tween and an older teen, this is something that I am very conscious of.

 

[StephMK]

I agree with the others, there seem to be a lot of child/adult issues going on.

I have a DD20 and I made my share of bad boyfriend choices at that age as well. My mom always said she wasn't going to worry about who I dated until marriage & something permanent became an issue. Lucky for all of us, I got smart eventually and made a good choice.

My opinion is that you need to sit down, tell her you are going to treat her like an adult & have an honest adult discussion about house expectations & your concerns for her future. I don't think it's worth the fight to "forbid" her to see him. Obviously, you already think she won't listen and I don't think forcing her to choose will end well for you.

I do think it's fair to expect her to be pleasant at home. I think you need to see her as an adult, even if she still does live at home and rely on you for support. I remember wanting independence at that age, I get that it's not totally fair since she's still a dependent but it's the age.

When you talk, let her voice some of her objections as well and accept them calmly. It also seems time for her to take on some financial responsibilities. Maybe add them on a schedule so she has time to get used to paying for more of her bills.

I would express your concerns without telling her what to do, just what makes you nervous for her future. Make sure you have a safe sex talk reminder and suggest that she think about this guy and her future after this program. Just because she's serious now doesn't mean things won't explode or fall apart three months from now, etc. Hopefully, either it's a phase she'll work through or he'll turn out to be a better guy who turns himself around.

We met DD's first serious BF and while we like him, DD is much more serious than we're comfortable with at her age. However, we are sitting back & waiting to see how it goes. I have told her my concerns about her feelings and she is aware it's early on in the relationship.


This is a tough age to navigate, especially when partners become involved. Good luck!

 

[RitaZ.]

I am also done with the disrespect and disregard for everyone in this family. If we don't get it, and she can't abide by the rules, she will need to leave?

OP, I thought you said in a previous reply that they're planning to get their own apartment once he is out of prison.

You're already doing so much for her, yet she doesn't feel that's enough. I think you'll have to focus on your relationship with her and leave the loser boyfriend out of it. Be clear in what you and your husband are willing to accept from her, don't deviate from that. For instance, things like, if she moves out, then she will be taking over the insurance payment, etc. She does need a dose of reality.

It's very romantic to fantasize about moving out to be "independent" when your parents are providing shelter, food, healthcare and paying for the bulk of your personal expenses and part of your education. Once she has to foot the bill, she will get a reality check. I do agree with the posters that said that she should complete her college degree; that will be her ticket to independence and away from the loser.

Maybe talking to a counselor/psychologist would be helpful to you and your husband. I doubt your daughter will want to go with you, but it might help the two of you to put things in perspective and to come up with a sound plan; which is hard to do when you're in the middle of chaos.

My mom (80) has told me that when young women are too oppressed at home, they will leave with the first loser that comes along. Some young adults conform to stringent rules set by their parents, but many push back with all their might and are willing to sacrifice everything in the process. Maybe there is some of that going on with your daughter. Just a thought.

OP, good luck. I hope everything works out for your family.

 

[SirDuff]

With $10K in her account, she should be paying for her insurance, personal expenses and even some of the tuition costs. .

I totally read that differently than you. There is no "K" with the $10:

She has made almost $7K this year and has $10 in the bank. Other than gas for the car, she has no other expenses other than what she wants to spend

I read it as the DD spending $6,990 on "wants", while her parents were supporting her "needs" (and going into debt to do so).

I agree with the last few posters that this go way beyond the boyfriend. He's only been around for a few months (per one of the posts), but it seems like the family issues have been going on for much, much longer. There have been some helpful suggestions, good luck to the OP and her family.

 

[RitaZ.]

I totally read that differently than you. There is no "K" with the $10:



I read it as the DD spending $6,990 on "wants", while her parents were supporting her "needs" (and going into debt to do so).

Oops, you're right!