Disney Genie+ and ILL$ Details & FAQ - Launches 10/19 at WDW, Paid "FastPass" at WDW and Disneyland (date TBD)

[Liquidice]

True, but playing devil's advocate, isn't it possible some revenue (people deciding not to go or go for fewer days) may have been lost as a result of the introduction of the extra fees? I guess it would be almost impossible to figure that out considering a decision not to visit would depend on a number of factors I'm sure.

Absolutely, and I'm sure Disney has some data on this, down to the individual guest level. I've said myself, if I bought Genie+ I'd be trying to save that money elsewhere on things like food.

They definitely are looking at demographics and seeing if guests who normally stay 7 days now stay 5, or guests who normally do sit down restaurants 3 of 5 nights now only do it 1 of 5 nights.

They will never share that with us - and it is also perhaps something they want - if the average guest stay goes down from lets say 6 days to 3 days, and demand outstrips supply, meaning even though you're staying less time, there is someone behind you willing to fill that vacancy - it may be looked upon as a positive for them.

On the one hand, you paid a little more for Genie+ and hopefully your guest satisfaction went up because you got more done in less time by not waiting in line. On the other hand, that guest that is replacing you is spending more for park tickets (1 guest buying a 6-day ticket is less than 2 guests buying 3 day tickets) and you're both likely to buy a t-shirt for $35 and maybe each do 1 sit-down dining meal where the guest who stayed 6 days only bought 1 t-shirt and 1 sit-down dining meal. It ends up being a win-win assuming demand remains high.

At a personal level, I'm not saying I necessarily like it - at least I don't like the idea of buying Genie+, what I do like is that this system has made it feasible to use the standby lines again, which is an improvement over FP+ even though it stinks not getting any Fast passes myself unless I pay for it. I suspect my "time in line" for the day might balance out or maybe be shorter than the FP+ days if lets say I ride 6 rides in a day, 3 with FP+, 3 with the old standby lines which were a lot longer vs. 6 rides all standby today with Genie+ in effect.

I do definitely see the business side of it though, it sort of makes sense I guess - again, assuming demand outstrips supply.

 

[mom2rtk]

Absolutely, and I'm sure Disney has some data on this, down to the individual guest level. I've said myself, if I bought Genie+ I'd be trying to save that money elsewhere on things like food.

They definitely are looking at demographics and seeing if guests who normally stay 7 days now stay 5, or guests who normally do sit down restaurants 3 of 5 nights now only do it 1 of 5 nights.

They will never share that with us - and it is also perhaps something they want - if the average guest stay goes down from lets say 6 days to 3 days, and demand outstrips supply, meaning even though you're staying less time, there is someone behind you willing to fill that vacancy - it may be looked upon as a positive for them.

On the one hand, you paid a little more for Genie+ and hopefully your guest satisfaction went up because you got more done in less time by not waiting in line. On the other hand, that guest that is replacing you is spending more for park tickets (1 guest buying a 6-day ticket is less than 2 guests buying 3 day tickets) and you're both likely to buy a t-shirt for $35 and maybe each do 1 sit-down dining meal where the guest who stayed 6 days only bought 1 t-shirt and 1 sit-down dining meal. It ends up being a win-win assuming demand remains high.

At a personal level, I'm not saying I necessarily like it - at least I don't like the idea of buying Genie+, what I do like is that this system has made it feasible to use the standby lines again, which is an improvement over FP+ even though it stinks not getting any Fast passes myself unless I pay for it. I suspect my "time in line" for the day might balance out or maybe be shorter than the FP+ days if lets say I ride 6 rides in a day, 3 with FP+, 3 with the old standby lines which were a lot longer vs. 6 rides all standby today with Genie+ in effect.

I do definitely see the business side of it though, it sort of makes sense I guess - again, assuming demand outstrips supply.

Except on days the parks hit capacity (which will get less and less frequent as the pandemic winds down and capacity returns to prior levels) there really is not a line of people waiting to replace you.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Except on days the parks hit capacity (which will get less and less frequent as the pandemic winds down and capacity returns to prior levels) there really is not a line of people waiting to replace you.

You're right. people say that if you dont go, someone will just replace you. That's only true if Disney hotels and parks are at full capacity. If someone is just going to replace you, they would have already booked, no one is standing in line behind me to take my spot if we dont go. It's just lost revenue. Now, I know disney makes up for that lost revenue by charging more to the people that do go.

But for my family, the additional charges have resulted in disney not only not getting those additional fees, but also not getting our total vacation dollars. We're taking those somewhere else now.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

You're right. people say that if you dont go, someone will just replace you. That's only true if Disney hotels and parks are at full capacity. If someone is just going to replace you, they would have already booked, no one is standing in line behind me to take my spot if we dont go. It's just lost revenue. Now, I know disney makes up for that lost revenue by charging more to the people that do go.

But for my family, the additional charges have resulted in disney not only not getting those additional fees, but also not getting our total vacation dollars. We're taking those somewhere else now.

I completely understand where you are coming from, but, (baring Covid), Disney has not had much of a problem selling out most of their Hotels a lot of the year. So where you are not wrong, I think if they pump more money into marketing, they would be able to attract more guests to make up for the disgruntled ones.

 

[mom2rtk]

I completely understand where you are coming from, but, (baring Covid), Disney has not had much of a problem selling out most of their Hotels a lot of the year. So where you are not wrong, I think if they pump more money into marketing, they would be able to attract more guests to make up for the disgruntled ones.

Some of the hotels aren't even open yet. And we have no idea if they are "selling out" full capacity in the others, or some reduced number of rooms.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I completely understand where you are coming from, but, (baring Covid), Disney has not had much of a problem selling out most of their Hotels a lot of the year. So where you are not wrong, I think if they pump more money into marketing, they would be able to attract more guests to make up for the disgruntled ones.

to be fair, they're using covid as a reason to make cuts and charge more. We really have no idea how disney is going to be after covid. We dont' know if disney crowds will go back to the precovid crowds.

I know for a fact that we arent the only ones that disney has allowed to look at other vacation destinations and venture away from disney because of the choices they have made pre covid and during covid.

Even before covid, unless we went at a time when the parks were at capacity or the resorts 100% sold out, there was never someone that was going to take my hotel room or park pass if we opted out.

That's been said a few times here.."someone will just take your place", when thats just not how things work. Yes revenue will be made up for it, they lose my money, they gain it by charging you more.

You're seeing people complain about the lack of trams, and the day long hold times to get in touch with Disney, those are simple fixes that Disney should correct now. Its upsetting people.

 

[JoeA]

to be fair, they're using covid as a reason to make cuts and charge more. We really have no idea how disney is going to be after covid. We dont' know if disney crowds will go back to the precovid crowds.

I know for a fact that we arent the only ones that disney has allowed to look at other vacation destinations and venture away from disney because of the choices they have made pre covid and during covid.

Even before covid, unless we went at a time when the parks were at capacity or the resorts 100% sold out, there was never someone that was going to take my hotel room or park pass if we opted out.

That's been said a few times here.."someone will just take your place", when thats just not how things work. Yes revenue will be made up for it, they lose my money, they gain it by charging you more.

You're seeing people complain about the lack of trams, and the day long hold times to get in touch with Disney, those are simple fixes that Disney should correct now. Its upsetting people.

I believe we're in the same mindset...

We went to FL in Sept and decided to pay for a Universal hotel and visited those parks for 3 days in lieu of Disney parks.

We did stay a few days in Disney but only because we're DVC, but we had no desire to visit any of the 4 Disney theme parks so this was a "resort only" stay.

We also have a May trip coming up but same thing...DVC stay and no Disney parks, but we are considering taking a Uber to Universal for a day.

Disney wouldn't get any of our money if we weren't long time DVC.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Some of the hotels aren't even open yet. And we have no idea if they are "selling out" full capacity in the others, or some reduced number of rooms.

agreed, that's why i said baring Covid, it's really difficult to get a grasp on things the way they stand now, i would say from Last March - today, (and beyond, considering we have no idea when things will go back to "normal"). I was talking pre Covid

 

[ChipnDale79]

I believe we're in the same mindset...

We went to FL in Sept and decided to pay for a Universal hotel and visited those parks for 3 days in lieu of Disney parks.

We did stay a few days in Disney but only because we're DVC, but we had no desire to visit any of the 4 Disney theme parks so this was a "resort only" stay.

We also have a May trip coming up but same thing...DVC stay and no Disney parks, but we are considering taking a Uber to Universal for a day.

Disney wouldn't get any of our money if we weren't long time DVC.

The kids have 2 random days off from school in feb, we have kicked the idea around of driving to FL to do a night or two at AK lodge as pool days, but zero park days at all. In the past, we would have gone to the parks for a day or two, but there will be no way that happens this time. And the only way AK happens is if i can find a really cheap dvc rental.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

to be fair, they're using covid as a reason to make cuts and charge more. We really have no idea how disney is going to be after covid. We dont' know if disney crowds will go back to the precovid crowds.

I know for a fact that we arent the only ones that disney has allowed to look at other vacation destinations and venture away from disney because of the choices they have made pre covid and during covid.

Even before covid, unless we went at a time when the parks were at capacity or the resorts 100% sold out, there was never someone that was going to take my hotel room or park pass if we opted out.

That's been said a few times here.."someone will just take your place", when thats just not how things work. Yes revenue will be made up for it, they lose my money, they gain it by charging you more.

You're seeing people complain about the lack of trams, and the day long hold times to get in touch with Disney, those are simple fixes that Disney should correct now. Its upsetting people.

I would say that it is all relative to how many booking they typically have, no "sold out" hotels. What I mean by that, is if Disney usually books, lets say 1000 rooms on March 4th (obviously the number is completely made up), and you cancel, that brings the number to 999, if someone then comes in and books that room, Disney still hits their average, it's to basic to argue that unless they sell out everyday, they are losing business.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I would say that it is all relative to how many booking they typically have, no "sold out" hotels. What I mean by that, is if Disney usually books, lets say 1000 rooms on March 4th (obviously the number is completely made up), and you cancel, that brings the number to 999, if someone then comes in and books that room, Disney still hits their average, it's to basic to argue that unless they sell out everyday, they are losing business.

my point is..that person is going to book that hotel room regardless if i cancel my trip or not. Me canceling my room doesnt open another room up, unless hotels are sold out.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

my point is..that person is going to book that hotel room regardless if i cancel my trip or not. Me canceling my room doesnt open another room up, unless hotels are sold out.

and at that point I would say that comes to marketing, if Disney is aware that they will be losing some guests, (who in my opinion have a good reason to move on), then it becomes sales, and marketing responsibility to market to new demographics to replace the guests they are losing, it just isn't as simple as you have laid it out, companies consistently lose certain demographics, and it is up to them to recoup through other means, ie. Subaru in the 90's/early 00's.

 

[ChipnDale79]

and at that point I would say that comes to marketing, if Disney is aware that they will be losing some guests, (who in my opinion have a good reason to move on), then it becomes sales, and marketing responsibility to market to new demographics to replace the guests they are losing, it just isn't as simple as you have laid it out, companies consistently lose certain demographics, and it is up to them to recoup through other means, ie. Subaru in the 90's/early 00's.

its much more expensive to replace an existing customer...but fair point.

its just sad that a place that my wife and i honeymooned and our family has so many great memories, a place that we still love, is making moves that we just dont agree with, and because of those moves, we wont be spending nearly as much time there. Its sad.

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

I believe we're in the same mindset...

We went to FL in Sept and decided to pay for a Universal hotel and visited those parks for 3 days in lieu of Disney parks.

We did stay a few days in Disney but only because we're DVC, but we had no desire to visit any of the 4 Disney theme parks so this was a "resort only" stay.

We also have a May trip coming up but same thing...DVC stay and no Disney parks, but we are considering taking a Uber to Universal for a day.

Disney wouldn't get any of our money if we weren't long time DVC.

Seriously, all this is going to do is give us a reason to go elsewhere especially if Genie+ functions the way it's supposed to and makes it so we can accomplish the things we used to need 10 days to accomplish, in something more like 5 days. I will still take a 10-11 Florida vacation, but only half of that will be spent at Disney. That would actually SAVE me money, even with the Genie+ purchases. Whether that actually profits Disney at all though, who knows.

 

[shawthorne44]

The kids have 2 random days off from school in feb, we have kicked the idea around of driving to FL to do a night or two at AK lodge as pool days, but zero park days at all. In the past, we would have gone to the parks for a day or two, but there will be no way that happens this time. And the only way AK happens is if i can find a really cheap dvc rental.

Why bother going to AKL at all? DVC owners doing resort-only stays, that I can understand. But to pay the hugely inflated resort price to be onsite at Disney, and then not go to Disney, that I don't understand.

Have you looked into Discovery Cove? I haven't stayed there, but I've been pondering tacking on some time to our Disney trip to do that. It looks really nice. What about Busch Gardens? Wasn't that what forced Disney to add Animal Kingdom in the first place? If you want pool days, you could stay at Cabana Bay, where they have a Lazy River, and a short walk to Universal's water park Volcano bay. I don't know where you live, I assume somewhat near Florida. But my favorite hotel pool is in Vegas. The Golden Nugget has a slide that goes *through* an aquarium with sharks.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Why bother going to AKL at all? DVC owners doing resort-only stays, that I can understand. But to pay the hugely inflated resort price to be onsite at Disney, and then not go to Disney, that I don't understand.

Have you looked into Discovery Cove? I haven't stayed there, but I've been pondering tacking on some time to our Disney trip to do that. It looks really nice. What about Busch Gardens? Wasn't that what forced Disney to add Animal Kingdom in the first place? If you want pool days, you could stay at Cabana Bay, where they have a Lazy River, and a short walk to Universal's water park Volcano bay. I don't know where you live, I assume somewhat near Florida. But my favorite hotel pool is in Vegas. The Golden Nugget has a slide that goes *through* an aquarium with sharks.

we're going to rent DVC points if we do it, and it would have to be one of the specials that Dave's or Time Share stores run. i wont pay disney rates to stay at AK.

I have not checked out Discovery Cove but i might look into that. One of reasons we want to go to AK is the Savannah and we really want to go back to Sanaa.

We're in NC, so its about a 8 hour drive for us.

 

[Liquidice]

Just got back from my trip, was there 11/11 - 11/15 - and while standby lines may have not been that bad when Genie+ first launched, it was really crowded there this weekend (I assume because it was a holiday weekend). Wait times for rides were pretty bad for popular rides - I still didn't buy Genie+ or ILL$, but I think a lot of people probably did opt to buy it based on how long the lines were - the problem with that is if you decide to buy it lets say at 10am, the next available LL pass was not until 1pm, so you spend $15 per person and can't even use it for a ride with a long standby for a few hours. Less popular rides or shows are of course available close to immediately, if you want to do that - but once you go back to a popular ride, the next times continue to move further out.

I do have DAS though, so I was able to experience the LL using return times. I noticed in some cases the LL itself was really long too - don't know if it was because the ride was down and people were using recovery passes or what - the wait times using the LL were never that bad, at most 15 mins, but it is a little disconcerting when you get to the Haunted Mansion and the LL looks as long as the standby line. I guess some of the wait times are people still trying to figure out how to use Genie+, I saw a lot of delays at the scan points.

On the bright side, my Limited Edition MMRR 2020 Passholder Magic Band finally has sound effects, at the 2nd tap point (which almost every ride seems to have now) - I got a white light and a train whistle each time instead of the normal green light and sound. It had never done that before!

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Just got back from my trip, was there 11/11 - 11/15 - and while standby lines may have not been that bad when Genie+ first launched, it was really crowded there this weekend (I assume because it was a holiday weekend). Wait times for rides were pretty bad for popular rides - I still didn't buy Genie+ or ILL$, but I think a lot of people probably did opt to buy it based on how long the lines were - the problem with that is if you decide to buy it lets say at 10am, the next available LL pass was not until 1pm, so you spend $15 per person and can't even use it for a ride with a long standby for a few hours. Less popular rides or shows are of course available close to immediately, if you want to do that - but once you go back to a popular ride, the next times continue to move further out.

I do have DAS though, so I was able to experience the LL using return times. I noticed in some cases the LL itself was really long too - don't know if it was because the ride was down and people were using recovery passes or what - the wait times using the LL were never that bad, at most 15 mins, but it is a little disconcerting when you get to the Haunted Mansion and the LL looks as long as the standby line. I guess some of the wait times are people still trying to figure out how to use Genie+, I saw a lot of delays at the scan points.

On the bright side, my Limited Edition MMRR 2020 Passholder Magic Band finally has sound effects, at the 2nd tap point (which almost every ride seems to have now) - I got a white light and a train whistle each time instead of the normal green light and sound. It had never done that before!

Interesting, we'll have to see how things shake out moving forward, i am guessing/ hoping that crowds have started to return which is finally causing some bugs in the system for Disney to work out. We noticed when we were down that no one could figure out how to scan their bands either, which definitely delayed us on FOP by about 10 minutes

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

its just sad that a place that my wife and i honeymooned and our family has so many great memories, a place that we still love, is making moves that we just dont agree with, and because of those moves, we wont be spending nearly as much time there. Its sad.

totally understand where you're coming from, we go about every 2 years, but for now we are planning on swallowing the extras, and renting DVC points. I refuse to raise my daughter in a non-WDW world haha, so the mouse can have my money..... for now

 

[ChipnDale79]

totally understand where you're coming from, we go about every 2 years, but for now we are planning on swallowing the extras, and renting DVC points. I refuse to raise my daughter in a non-WDW world haha, so the mouse can have my money..... for now

i understand that...my boys are 9 and 10, and have been every single year but 2 of them, and some times multiple times in a year.

We skipped a year when my youngest was born, and then skipped last year. We're skipping next year and moving to once every 2 years.