Disney parks costs, crowds, and categorizations

[jade1]

Are you talking about dvc?

That's not cheaper...it's a promo. You do get the difference, right?

Coupons are not price reductions. They come around like a boomerang.

In two years that's gonna run you $650...my guess...at least

Yep DVC, it's until the Jan 3, been going on a few months and a few months more. I think last years was around $600 for our Platinum, this is cheaper and is the Plus besides. Crazy.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yep DVC, it's until the Jan 3, been going on a few months and a few months more. I think last years was around $600 for our Platinum, this is cheaper and is the Plus besides. Crazy.

Right...but that's a promo to likely lock in business before Star Wars premiers...let's see what happens next year

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I find this fascinating...I guess I've never read your travel arrangements before.

For a pretty consistent defender of the shield, aren't you a bit annoyed that they priced you off property?

2 rooms at pop should run about $200 a night if we're being serious about amenities...certainly not $400 for a "suite" at AoA...

I think at that price you'd make the jump back. Interesting...

I don't think Disney needs to price things so I can afford them - they need to price things to maximize value to the company. And the market will support the prices so be it

Like everything in life you have to pick and choose how to spend your vacation dollars and to us it is better to spend it for more space off site. Before others they think worth it to be on site which is great.

my kids are young so 2 rooms is still not ideal so more about the space and setup than actual dollars. Maybe when they are older we would consider it and then would have to think at what price level it is worth it

 

[jade1]

Right...but that's a promo to likely lock in business before Star Wars premiers...let's see what happens next year

No doubt. Working great right now though. I have often said they can just lower prices if they want-here's an example.

 

[Lee Matthews]

Listen to the podcasts and really found it interesting.

Firstly Len really knows his stuff and his podcasts he does with Jim Hill really doesn’t do him credit. He comes along a bit goofy on those.

Couldn’t believe the price increases at Disney over the years. I knew food prices had gone up, but not as much as they had.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Couldn’t believe the price increases at Disney over the years. I knew food prices had gone up, but not as much as they had.

(Boy...I wish some sleuth coulda figured that out...don't you too, @Andrew015 ?)

 

[beer dave]

Even better for families with 3 kids like me who don't fit in a standard value room

and four kids......so we bought DVC.......

 

[beer dave]

Maybe they will build an exclusive park just for DVC members...... They could use the campgrounds for it.....

 

[TheMaxRebo]

and four kids......so we bought DVC.......

If we could swing that we probably would. Did look into renting DVC points a bit, but offsite still much, much cheaper

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Some of the hotel prices astound me. I'd love to stay at the Poly but I cannot stomach paying $350+ for a night at a hotel. I know some people quote mythical travel agent secret prices that are much lower than that, but I've never been able to find any of those.

FYI - the "mythical travel agent secret price" I'm paying in Jan/Feb is $330 a night...The lowest rack rate night for poly next year is $536 per night...lol.

 

[OhioStateBuckeye]

FYI - the "mythical travel agent secret price" I'm paying in Jan/Feb is $330 a night...The lowest rack rate night for poly next year is $536 per night...lol.

Geeeeeez. At this point in my financial life I don't think I could pay that a night. Oh Poly, I'll just have to keep coming to visit.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Geeeeeez. At this point in my financial life I don't think I could pay that a night. Oh Poly, I'll just have to keep coming to visit.

But the point is...you can get a lower price if you are ok with some conditions. That's a 40% reduction. The rack is ridiculously inflated.

My example (I feel like I'm called out) is that in July of 2016 through a large volume disney wholesaler, I was able to book for family (and we went too after finding the price to save dvc points), a rate of $253.50 ish with tax on a rack of $495 at that time...that's was something like a 52% off.

But those things aren't gonna happen all the time...so it's a bit more tricky than calling a number and getting it.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

When we were a young family we were living on a lower middle class income. We traveled to WDW during Value seasons because that was the only time of the year that we could afford the vacation. As a family of 4 with 2 small children, we could stay at ASMo for 9 nights during a free dining week for under $2000. Add in the cost for gas and food during the drive down and back and those trips cost us, on average, about $2400 for about a 5 year period. So, we stayed on site, ate great meals all day long and enjoyed 8 full days in the parks for about $75 per person per day. This was with park hoppers and the WP&M option.

I am glad that we had children during that era. I am also glad that we will be able to help our children when/if they decide to take their kids to WDW, because middle class America has to go into debt to afford WDW today. A part of me is saddened by this. But the practical part of me decided to stop feeding the Disney monster a few years ago. We stay off-site now for the most part even though price isn't a problem for us anymore. We eat meals off-site now for the most part. We spend nothing at all in WDW stores while there. The state and cities in the area get much more of our vacation dollars now than Disney does.

So, we still go, but we spend wisely. For those with smaller incomes, WDW can be done for half the cost and the trips are just as much fun (more fun for us). You just have to be willing to leave the Disney bubble a little bit (not much, just a little bit).

 

[jade1]

When we were a young family we were living on a lower middle class income. We traveled to WDW during Value seasons because that was the only time of the year that we could afford the vacation. As a family of 4 with 2 small children, we could stay at ASMo for 9 nights during a free dining week for under $2000. Add in the cost for gas and food during the drive down and back and those trips cost us, on average, about $2400 for about a 5 year period.

I like hearing folks WDW stories thanks.

We did the exact same thing. Although our trips were (still are actually) only paid with OT, 2nd jobs and cheaper cars.

But after only 3 years it became obvious we were going every year, so DVC (which appeared to be the biggest rip off in history so we just kept walking) finally sunk in.

Best thing we ever did relative to WDW. Basically locked in stays on dues. Adding POLY/GF is like a lottery win.

Never really even follow hotel pricing any more-just isn't a factor. About all it does is increase our investments.

All that said-I do agree young folks going forward are going to have a hard time making a WDW trip work.

 

[bladiator]

I saw it mentioned before, but I didn't see much conversation about it ... .

The thing that I thought was the most telling is when Len asked what is going to happen when the Walt generation finally is gone. I know that was a long time ago, but we still have adults that were indoctrinated (like myself -- I'm 37) as children during the rage of Disney. And even though there is a huge princess phase that children go through, is the fact that you like Elsa a whole lot going to be worth the price that they are charging for the WDW experience? And while it wasn't the finest analogy, he made the point that if a company like Coca-Cola just started upping their prices and expecting their loyal fan base to keep them afloat, how would that eventually not bite them in the butt when you have a new generation that wasn't "brought up on Coke" that's like "Uh, I'll take the half price Pepsi, please."

Since UO is keeping up with Disney as far as gate price, I guess it's not like there is a great cheaper alternative right now, but perhaps the alternative is eventually just going to be to not go. UO at least has Harry Potter which is a newer phenomenon. Your trip to WDW isn't going to be centered around Frozen Ever After, the Frozen Sing Along, and the Frozen meet and greet.

 

[firefly_ris]

When we were a young family we were living on a lower middle class income. We traveled to WDW during Value seasons because that was the only time of the year that we could afford the vacation. As a family of 4 with 2 small children, we could stay at ASMo for 9 nights during a free dining week for under $2000. Add in the cost for gas and food during the drive down and back and those trips cost us, on average, about $2400 for about a 5 year period. So, we stayed on site, ate great meals all day long and enjoyed 8 full days in the parks for about $75 per person per day. This was with park hoppers and the WP&M option.

Sounds awesome.... my husband and I are headed down next week for a short 3.5 day trip for our 10th anniversary. We got the flights "free" using our Rapid Rewards points from Southwest Visa, and Orbitz was having a 15% off sale, so I booked POFQ. If we had to pay for flights, would have been off site no question. We're also lower middle class, and have 3 children. They want to go back, which I'll be slowly working on saving up for over the next year and a half (hopefully). But I think this POFQ will likely be our last on-site stay, as trying to book a room for a family of 5 isn't exactly a deal. Last time we took the kids was November 2015 and we stayed off-site at Lake Buena Vista Resort Village in a 2 bedroom fully equip condo, which was very nice. There are the family suites on site... but I don't love the extreme theming nor do I feel like paying $400/night to stay at a value resort... that's not a value!!! If it would be easier for us to drive there then that would potentially make the over-inflated prices not seem AS bad, but buying plane tickets for 5 people can be a real punch in the gut... then you get there and have to buy 5 park tickets... ouch.

The cheapest trip I ever did was probably really my favorite... my husband and I were dating, it was January 2005 -- I had single days left on old paper tickets from a trip I went on with my parents in 1998, so we only had to buy 1 additional ticket I think... we stayed off-site at a Days Inn, used the hotel shuttle that was driven by an absolute lunatic, left the parks by dinner time and ate at such high class places as Subway and Buffalo Wild Wings. I also had a great time going in 2009 with my husband and in-laws, shared a room at Coronado Springs and enjoyed a ghost town park on Super Bowl weekend... but I don't know that being in an on-site hotel had that much of an effect. If we were still child-less maybe I could justify it, but.... 3 extra bodies to fly and mouths to feed? We're priced out.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I saw it mentioned before, but I didn't see much conversation about it ... .

The thing that I thought was the most telling is when Len asked what is going to happen when the Walt generation finally is gone. I know that was a long time ago, but we still have adults that were indoctrinated (like myself -- I'm 37) as children during the rage of Disney. And even though there is a huge princess phase that children go through, is the fact that you like Elsa a whole lot going to be worth the price that they are charging for the WDW experience? And while it wasn't the finest analogy, he made the point that if a company like Coca-Cola just started upping their prices and expecting their loyal fan base to keep them afloat, how would that eventually not bite them in the butt when you have a new generation that wasn't "brought up on Coke" that's like "Uh, I'll take the half price Pepsi, please."

Since UO is keeping up with Disney as far as gate price, I guess it's not like there is a great cheaper alternative right now, but perhaps the alternative is eventually just going to be to not go. UO at least has Harry Potter which is a newer phenomenon. Your trip to WDW isn't going to be centered around Frozen Ever After, the Frozen Sing Along, and the Frozen meet and greet.

I think that part is a big driver behind some of my thoughts around is there a way to provide a similar "Disney experience" outside of going to the existing Disney parks? Could there be "mini-parks" in more areas of the country that are less costly for a family to visit but help build that loyalty, etc? That sort of thing as I just don't see how the existing parks are going to get cheaper

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Pretty basic economics - the demand dictates price. The population of our nation has exploded since WDW was conceptualized, to say nothing of the number of people in other nations with enough disposable income to visit someplace like WDW. Some would say that Disney doesn't really need to raise prices just because of the demand, but they absolutely have to in order to kill the demand for something with limited availability. Just as not everyone can afford a luxury car, not everyone can afford WDW. But WDW was not always priced as a luxury vacation. That has changed out of necessity.

That said, it is silly to think that Disney would be competing with itself if they were to build another version of WDW somewhere in the Southwest. Since the demand has to be artificially suppressed through the current price structure, the introduction of another Disney park elsewhere would simply ease that demand and allow Disney to introduce many millions more guests to their park experience each year. There are many ways to do this - one is to make WDW into the "luxury" Disney park experience in America while still offering Disneyland and this new venue. They wouldn't have to lower prices at WDW or Disneyland to expand their customer base - they would just need to build something that fills the niche which is currently being driven out of the Disney Parks market place (on purpose). They do not need to continue to drive those customers away. They could easily go another route and make even more money while building their base for future generations.

The only reason not to do this - if they see a long term drop in parks attendance in America. But with the population continuing to expand across our nation, I just do not see that happening.

 

[bladiator]

I think that part is a big driver behind some of my thoughts around is there a way to provide a similar "Disney experience" outside of going to the existing Disney parks? Could there be "mini-parks" in more areas of the country that are less costly for a family to visit but help build that loyalty, etc? That sort of thing as I just don't see how the existing parks are going to get cheaper

But the question is (and has probably already been batted around for a long time), how did the prices get so inflated in the first place? Is it really an Iger "I only look ahead 6 months at a time" revenue problem, or is it really a "we're trying to limit the number of people who come here and continue to make the same amount of money" issue? Are you so sure of your Disney fan base that you're willing to turn away the majority of American vacationers? The stats are available and they have to have knowledge of them.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

But the question is (and has probably already been batted around for a long time), how did the prices get so inflated in the first place? Is it really an Iger "I only look ahead 6 months at a time" revenue problem, or is it really a "we're trying to limit the number of people who come here and continue to make the same amount of money" issue? Are you so sure of your Disney fan base that you're willing to turn away the majority of American vacationers? The stats are available and they have to have knowledge of them.

I do not think that Disney wanted to kill the demand among the lower income groups - they had no choice. The parks are getting absurdly busy. Nothing will kill the WDW Parks business faster than having every day look have Christmas week crowds, and that would have already happened if not for the price hikes.