Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[OSUZorba]

I find the math of 3000 or 5000 people per hour rather odd, because if they can load that many people, that would mean besides park opening and closing times, the gondolas will be running practically empty all day long. Perhaps they will then take most of the gondolas off line late morning, and put them back on before the evening rush? That should save some energy and reduce wear and tear on the gondolas. So that during the day, you would only see a gondola once every few minutes, and you might have to wait some minutes before a gondola shows up, even when there's no line.

The parking is for emergency use only. Otherwise all gondolas will be on the line except for ones in maintenance.

They might slow down the line speed during the day, but I doubt it. Even at half speed, you are still talking about a full 737 every 5 minutes. There is just no way there will ever be a real line in the middle of the day

The reasons I doubt they'll slow it down are: 1) Loss of passive cooling in the middle of the day. 2) Disney uses the principals of Lean manufacturing for loading rides, under Lean you establish your tach time and you stick with it. Adjusting the speed all the time makes it hard for employees to keep up during faster times because they get used to the slower speed.

 

[Roxyfire]

The parking is for emergency use only. Otherwise all gondolas will be on the line except for ones in maintenance.

They might slow down the line speed during the day, but I doubt it. Even at half speed, you are still talking about a full 737 every 5 minutes. There is just no way there will ever be a real line in the middle of the day

The reasons I doubt they'll slow it down are: 1) Loss of passive cooling in the middle of the day. 2) Disney uses the principals of Lean manufacturing for loading rides, under Lean you establish your tach time and you stick with it. Adjusting the speed all the time makes it hard for employees to keep up during faster times because they get used to the slower speed.

Very good points, plus I never really considered the idea that it would matter if it's less busy during the day. They certainly could lower staffing at less peak times but if anything, people will be happy to know they can walk right onto a gondola. Who really cares if a bunch go by empty? People arrive and leave parks at all times. Once Star Wars opens there will be a total crush of people going to HS and probably a good portion of them will realize it's too busy and get on the skyliner to head to Epcot instead.

 

[DBDiz]

The counter to not reducing cable speed would be fewer cars on the line / more space between active cars.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The counter to not reducing cable speed would be fewer cars on the line / more space between active cars.

Honest question - would that really be of much benefit?

I guess I see the system as moving the cable - and, yeah, I guess with fewer cars maybe it takes a bit less energy to move the cable but is that much of a difference?

Guess I am thinking of costs for Disney - does the cost to run the system change much if they run it at a lower speed or with fewer cars on it? Or is it basically the same cost if they run it the same even if a bu ch of cars are empty?

I suppose they could use less CMs mid day either way to save costs

 

[sachilles]

Speed of the motor driving the cable is higher when system is moving faster but with less cars on the line. To go faster means more electricity consumed, and therefor more expensive. However, with disney embracing solar, it could get to a point that the electricity cost is a non issue.

 

[The Pho]

2. I don't like the idea of risking the gondola being stranded in the air at times and lose all the "passive ventilation". The London Gondola was stranded for an hour some time ago and it was in the news. You would think they would have some way to pull the gondolas in manually right away, but they didn't.

You are right; my memory has failed me. It does say 30 minutes, but in the article some of the people claim that they were stuck for an hour, so that must have confused me. Like you say, it's only one time since 2012, so it doesn't sound too bad, but what is worth noticing is that they did not manually crank the passengers back, and neither did they have a backup motor that they can switch to. They simply worked to get the motor to run again. But they DID have air conditioning, so the fact that they had no heat-related injuries means nothing to us; their experience cannot be compared to what ours will be. I am still worried about being stranded for half an hour when there's no air conditioning and no air through the vents. But, I'm willing to take to risk because it doesn't sound likely- once in 5 or 6 years ain't bad record.

These systems have backups that allow them to run and get people off the Gondola quickly, but that depends on what the failure mode is. In the case of the London lift, they did not turn on the backup system because of a safety sensor failure. In the vast majority of cases, the backup system would be used to get people off quickly.

I find the math of 3000 or 5000 people per hour rather odd, because if they can load that many people, that would mean besides park opening and closing times, the gondolas will be running practically empty all day long. Perhaps they will then take most of the gondolas off line late morning, and put them back on before the evening rush? That should save some energy and reduce wear and tear on the gondolas. So that during the day, you would only see a gondola once every few minutes, and you might have to wait some minutes before a gondola shows up, even when there's no line.

The problem with pulling off some Gondolas is weight distribution. If you don't evenly space them correctly, the system will not wear as expected, causing future repair issues. Usually when lifts are not run at full capacity they lower the speed of operation, but the cost savings are minimal enough to where that is generally only done to counter for weather and not capacity. Most ski resorts are broke and if that saved a significant amount it would be more common.

 

[rteetz]

These systems have backups that allow them to run and get people off the Gondola quickly, but that depends on what the failure mode is. In the case of the London lift, they did not turn on the backup system because of a safety sensor failure. In the vast majority of cases, the backup system would be used to get people off quickly.

Yep, notice the giant generators at the CBR station in aerial images.

 

[joelkfla]

You are right; my memory has failed me. It does say 30 minutes, but in the article some of the people claim that they were stuck for an hour, so that must have confused me. Like you say, it's only one time since 2012, so it doesn't sound too bad, but what is worth noticing is that they did not manually crank the passengers back, and neither did they have a backup motor that they can switch to. They simply worked to get the motor to run again. But they DID have air conditioning, so the fact that they had no heat-related injuries means nothing to us; their experience cannot be compared to what ours will be. I am still worried about being stranded for half an hour when there's no air conditioning and no air through the vents. But, I'm willing to take to risk because it doesn't sound likely- once in 5 or 6 years ain't bad record.

All of these systems have backup generators. The fact that they didn't use them tells me that it likely was not a power loss; they just described it as a "technical issue." They probably had to make sure everything was safe before restarting the cable. The line was still fairly new at the time, and maybe something was out of adjustment.

There are sensors around the cable that shut down the system when the cable moves too far from the normal path. That may have been the problem, and would probably cause them to do a thorough safety check before moving the gondolas.

The a/c on the Emirates Airline gondola is powered by supercapacitors (like quick-charging batteries) that are recharged each time a gondola moves through the station. I would think they would have been depleted within a few minutes of the system shutting down, ending the a/c. It is true, though, that the average high temperature in London, even in July, is quite a bit lower than in FL.

 

[sachilles]

Most ski resorts are broke and if that saved a significant amount it would be more common.

<---------Ski resort accountant for 18 years.
There can be significant of cost differences with the speed of the lift. I can tell you for a fact we knew the energy consumption levels. When combined with the energy costs of snowmaking, electricity is an important commodity to ski resort operation. The big difference is that at least in New England, the energy availability is a bigger concern than price at this point. If the grid sees too much consumption, they will shut you down. There were years we'd bring in massive generators as well as diesel compressors (to compress air for snow making). Always with the goal to reduce either our dependence on grid power and escalating rates.
Newer stuff is far more efficient. I doubt speed difference with Disney's will be factor in Disney's operation of the Gondola's despite the a real savings on energy cost though. Mostly because Disney accountants are starting to base decisions on data. In this case, they don't have the data yet. When you see the Gondolas slow down 3 years after they start operations. You can start to be a little more suspicious of the motives.
I think now, they'll be trying to tune the speed. See where demand is. Get Star Wars open and continue to see where demand is, and adjust from there. Make no mistake, slower is cheaper. Changing speeds constantly is also a bit of an energy suck. Since these are detachable and two bullwheels, that is the real value to the system to be able slow the loading to a certain extent with reduced effect to the haulrope speed.

 

[OSUZorba]

The counter to not reducing cable speed would be fewer cars on the line / more space between active cars.

Parking is setup for emergency use, not daily use per Liftblog. Further, removing cars would have the same effect on loading tach time as slowing the cable. You get the CMs used to loading at half the speed and they won't be able to load at full speed when needed.

I'd look at this like an omnimover ride, they don't remove cars or slow them down when lines are light.

 

[Tigger's ally]

Parking is setup for emergency use, not daily use per Liftblog. Further, removing cars would have the same effect on loading tach time as slowing the cable. You get the CMs used to loading at half the speed and they won't be able to load at full speed when needed.

I'd look at this like an omnimover ride, they don't remove cars or slow them down when lines are light.

What about cleaning, like if someone gets sick in one? I take it that this is done at the stations when the cars can be pulled off the main line for a few minutes and the janitor that comes to Aisle 11 when somebody drops the jar of pickles comes out to clean the gondola?

 

[BabybetterDisney]

To your first point, I doubt they will group parties in the middle of the day when it is hot. This thing is going to have massive capacity, i.e. a full PLANE load of people every 2 minutes, each way to each park.

As far as getting stuck, I think there will probably be emergency windows or door release so you could get some air and not bake. I tried to find a some pictures, but haven't been able to.

I find it doubtful that the gondolas can load a plane full of people such that there will be little to no wait. The London gondola, which is supposed to be a similar model as the Disney one (2500 capacity per hour each direction), is described by some online reviewers as follows:

"We visited this on bank holiday Sunday and wished we hadn't bothered - we were told by one of the staff that the queue for the tickets was about 5-10mins - that was a lie it was nearer 25mins and then you had to join another queue to go up to the cable car itself - that was another 10-15mins wait."

"We had to wait in an enormous queue to get to the cable car. It was probably around 45 minutes wait."

"Bad Customer Service. Huge Queuing Times. rushed approach to load you into the cable car."

"Waited 15 minutes to ride. Ten minutes of which was because the attendant was chatting to his mates while several half empty gondolas went by."

"Bought Viator tickets for river cruise and cable car. Excitedly followed instructions to ticket kiosk. Queued for very long time. Presented voucher and told we could not go as cable car closed for 'planned maintenance'"

"The worst complaint is that you cannot simply stay in a cable car for a full round-trip ride (not explained before boarding). You HAVE to get off at the end and re-join the long queues even if you want to come straight back. Even on the windy/drizzly afternoon yesterday, the queues weren't short. I can't imagine how long they get when the weather is fine and more people deciding to try out the cable cars."

"Oh, by the way, if you get stuck up there you are being evacuated onto a boat, straight down. Just so you know."

"You're more likely to queue up for longer than it takes to cross the Thames in the cable car which is approximately 20 minutes."

"The return trip later that day involved a 20 minute queue to get on though."

"there didnt seem to be a quick and efficient way of loading people into the cars when it was really busy (they need some tips from disney!)"

"There was heavy wind on the day so the cable car was closed we waited for an hour then decided to give it a miss."

"The queue was very long as expected,but it does move fairly quickly so you're not having to wait an excessive amount of time."

"Show up early in the day. The cable cars are slowed down below what you'd normally expect from them to make the trip longer - fair enough for having more time for the views, but it leads to ridiculous queues."

"The queues at the weekend can get very long as they are slow moving."

"The cars gold up to 10 people and you are expected to share with strangers to fill the car to capacity. Of course we ended up with the guy who thought it was funny to try and rock our car."

"We queued up for about an hour got on the cable cart and it was over within about 10 minutes and when we got off at the other side there wasn't much to do at all so i was disappointed with that."

"Then a little wait to actually get on the carts too."

"Each car can hold up to 10 people, so it's quite likely that you will be sitting with strangers, even if you are part of a group. I found that the staff generally did not fill the cars up, but sometimes one or two riders would push forward and jump in a car that had only 5 or 6 people."

 

[rteetz]

I find it doubtful that the gondolas can load a plane full of people such that there will be little to no wait. The London gondola, which is supposed to be a similar model as the Disney one (2500 capacity per hour each direction), is described by some online reviewers as follows:

"We visited this on bank holiday Sunday and wished we hadn't bothered - we were told by one of the staff that the queue for the tickets was about 5-10mins - that was a lie it was nearer 25mins and then you had to join another queue to go up to the cable car itself - that was another 10-15mins wait."

"We had to wait in an enormous queue to get to the cable car. It was probably around 45 minutes wait."

"Bad Customer Service. Huge Queuing Times. rushed approach to load you into the cable car."

"Waited 15 minutes to ride. Ten minutes of which was because the attendant was chatting to his mates while several half empty gondolas went by."

"Bought Viator tickets for river cruise and cable car. Excitedly followed instructions to ticket kiosk. Queued for very long time. Presented voucher and told we could not go as cable car closed for 'planned maintenance'"

"The worst complaint is that you cannot simply stay in a cable car for a full round-trip ride (not explained before boarding). You HAVE to get off at the end and re-join the long queues even if you want to come straight back. Even on the windy/drizzly afternoon yesterday, the queues weren't short. I can't imagine how long they get when the weather is fine and more people deciding to try out the cable cars."

"Oh, by the way, if you get stuck up there you are being evacuated onto a boat, straight down. Just so you know."

"You're more likely to queue up for longer than it takes to cross the Thames in the cable car which is approximately 20 minutes."

"The return trip later that day involved a 20 minute queue to get on though."

"there didnt seem to be a quick and efficient way of loading people into the cars when it was really busy (they need some tips from disney!)"

"There was heavy wind on the day so the cable car was closed we waited for an hour then decided to give it a miss."

"The queue was very long as expected,but it does move fairly quickly so you're not having to wait an excessive amount of time."

"Show up early in the day. The cable cars are slowed down below what you'd normally expect from them to make the trip longer - fair enough for having more time for the views, but it leads to ridiculous queues."

"The queues at the weekend can get very long as they are slow moving."

"The cars gold up to 10 people and you are expected to share with strangers to fill the car to capacity. Of course we ended up with the guy who thought it was funny to try and rock our car."

"We queued up for about an hour got on the cable cart and it was over within about 10 minutes and when we got off at the other side there wasn't much to do at all so i was disappointed with that."

"Then a little wait to actually get on the carts too."

"Each car can hold up to 10 people, so it's quite likely that you will be sitting with strangers, even if you are part of a group. I found that the staff generally did not fill the cars up, but sometimes one or two riders would push forward and jump in a car that had only 5 or 6 people."

Online reviews of a completely different system is not the best way to go about what will happen with Disney’s system.

 

[OKW Lover]

The big difference is that at least in New England, the energy availability is a bigger concern than price at this point. If the grid sees too much consumption, they will shut you down. There were years we'd bring in massive generators as well as diesel compressors (to compress air for snow making). Always with the goal to reduce either our dependence on grid power and escalating rates.

Having worked for a public utility in New England for almost 40 years I'm not aware of any instance where a customer was shut down for too much consumption. It may be that the customer realized that they could generate their own electricity cheaper from time to time than the power from the grid.

 

[jade1]

I have never been so blessed as to be able to sit directly under the AC in the friendship boats.

Really that's number one?

I usually give up my seat to someone who needs it, much less care about the temp.

 

[skier_pete]

I really get a kick out of the seemingly constant assumption on this thread that Disney and Dopplmyer have no idea what they are doing.

I don't think Disney is going to be particularly worried that there might be times of day that the gondolas are less busy. While it will rarely be "full", there will likely always be a steady population using the gondolas most of the time, just like whatever time of day you arrive at the parks, there are always people coming and going. Instead what will happen is at those less crowded times, you will see them only load single families on a gondola as opposed to the capacity numbers. But most of the gondolas will be occupied.

Anyone thinking these things will EVER have 20 minute waits (besides right at park closing) is out of their head.

 

[Tigger's ally]

I find it doubtful that the gondolas can load a plane full of people such that there will be little to no wait. The London gondola, which is supposed to be a similar model as the Disney one (2500 capacity per hour each direction), is described by some online reviewers as follows:

"We visited this on bank holiday Sunday and wished we hadn't bothered - we were told by one of the staff that the queue for the tickets was about 5-10mins - that was a lie it was nearer 25mins and then you had to join another queue to go up to the cable car itself - that was another 10-15mins wait."

"We had to wait in an enormous queue to get to the cable car. It was probably around 45 minutes wait."

"Bad Customer Service. Huge Queuing Times. rushed approach to load you into the cable car."

"Waited 15 minutes to ride. Ten minutes of which was because the attendant was chatting to his mates while several half empty gondolas went by."

"Bought Viator tickets for river cruise and cable car. Excitedly followed instructions to ticket kiosk. Queued for very long time. Presented voucher and told we could not go as cable car closed for 'planned maintenance'"

"The worst complaint is that you cannot simply stay in a cable car for a full round-trip ride (not explained before boarding). You HAVE to get off at the end and re-join the long queues even if you want to come straight back. Even on the windy/drizzly afternoon yesterday, the queues weren't short. I can't imagine how long they get when the weather is fine and more people deciding to try out the cable cars."

"Oh, by the way, if you get stuck up there you are being evacuated onto a boat, straight down. Just so you know."

"You're more likely to queue up for longer than it takes to cross the Thames in the cable car which is approximately 20 minutes."

"The return trip later that day involved a 20 minute queue to get on though."

"there didnt seem to be a quick and efficient way of loading people into the cars when it was really busy (they need some tips from disney!)"

"There was heavy wind on the day so the cable car was closed we waited for an hour then decided to give it a miss."

"The queue was very long as expected,but it does move fairly quickly so you're not having to wait an excessive amount of time."

"Show up early in the day. The cable cars are slowed down below what you'd normally expect from them to make the trip longer - fair enough for having more time for the views, but it leads to ridiculous queues."

"The queues at the weekend can get very long as they are slow moving."

"The cars gold up to 10 people and you are expected to share with strangers to fill the car to capacity. Of course we ended up with the guy who thought it was funny to try and rock our car."

"We queued up for about an hour got on the cable cart and it was over within about 10 minutes and when we got off at the other side there wasn't much to do at all so i was disappointed with that."

"Then a little wait to actually get on the carts too."

"Each car can hold up to 10 people, so it's quite likely that you will be sitting with strangers, even if you are part of a group. I found that the staff generally did not fill the cars up, but sometimes one or two riders would push forward and jump in a car that had only 5 or 6 people."

Hmm, where I looked, here are the totals for the reviews. Looks like you quoted most of the poor and terrible. I won't post the Excellent and Very good ones because I would run out of room. I will post the website address though.



https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...e_Car_Greenwich_Peninsula-London_England.html

 

[danikoski]

I find it doubtful that the gondolas can load a plane full of people such that there will be little to no wait. The London gondola, which is supposed to be a similar model as the Disney one (2500 capacity per hour each direction), is described by some online reviewers as follows:

"We visited this on bank holiday Sunday and wished we hadn't bothered - we were told by one of the staff that the queue for the tickets was about 5-10mins - that was a lie it was nearer 25mins and then you had to join another queue to go up to the cable car itself - that was another 10-15mins wait."

"We had to wait in an enormous queue to get to the cable car. It was probably around 45 minutes wait."

"Bad Customer Service. Huge Queuing Times. rushed approach to load you into the cable car."

"Waited 15 minutes to ride. Ten minutes of which was because the attendant was chatting to his mates while several half empty gondolas went by."

"Bought Viator tickets for river cruise and cable car. Excitedly followed instructions to ticket kiosk. Queued for very long time. Presented voucher and told we could not go as cable car closed for 'planned maintenance'"

"The worst complaint is that you cannot simply stay in a cable car for a full round-trip ride (not explained before boarding). You HAVE to get off at the end and re-join the long queues even if you want to come straight back. Even on the windy/drizzly afternoon yesterday, the queues weren't short. I can't imagine how long they get when the weather is fine and more people deciding to try out the cable cars."

"Oh, by the way, if you get stuck up there you are being evacuated onto a boat, straight down. Just so you know."

"You're more likely to queue up for longer than it takes to cross the Thames in the cable car which is approximately 20 minutes."

"The return trip later that day involved a 20 minute queue to get on though."

"there didnt seem to be a quick and efficient way of loading people into the cars when it was really busy (they need some tips from disney!)"

"There was heavy wind on the day so the cable car was closed we waited for an hour then decided to give it a miss."

"The queue was very long as expected,but it does move fairly quickly so you're not having to wait an excessive amount of time."

"Show up early in the day. The cable cars are slowed down below what you'd normally expect from them to make the trip longer - fair enough for having more time for the views, but it leads to ridiculous queues."

"The queues at the weekend can get very long as they are slow moving."

"The cars gold up to 10 people and you are expected to share with strangers to fill the car to capacity. Of course we ended up with the guy who thought it was funny to try and rock our car."

"We queued up for about an hour got on the cable cart and it was over within about 10 minutes and when we got off at the other side there wasn't much to do at all so i was disappointed with that."

"Then a little wait to actually get on the carts too."

"Each car can hold up to 10 people, so it's quite likely that you will be sitting with strangers, even if you are part of a group. I found that the staff generally did not fill the cars up, but sometimes one or two riders would push forward and jump in a car that had only 5 or 6 people."

Most of these complaints sound like queuing for the ticket was the main problem. And that the London line needs help with loading.

Disney's system, except for probably the Riveria station, is a double load. There appear to be two loops for loading, one which is suspected to be for loading strollers, ECVs, and those who need more time to load. The lines should be minimal except at park open and close.

 

[sachilles]

Having worked for a public utility in New England for almost 40 years I'm not aware of any instance where a customer was shut down for too much consumption. It may be that the customer realized that they could generate their own electricity cheaper from time to time than the power from the grid.

Green mountain power, between the years of 2005 and 2015. Power curtailed during peak demand hours in the evening. Semantics may mean they didn't switch us off, but told us not to use it, and if we did there would be an issue. I'll see if I can google up an article.

 

[OSUZorba]

What about cleaning, like if someone gets sick in one? I take it that this is done at the stations when the cars can be pulled off the main line for a few minutes and the janitor that comes to Aisle 11 when somebody drops the jar of pickles comes out to clean the gondola?

Will probably mostly be done in the slow load areas, but they will have a maintenance loop as well. Not sure what the capacity of the maintenance loop will be, but definitely not half of them.