DL & DCA -Disability Access Service Card- Post 1 update 12/7/14 DAS tied to ticket

[Jperiod]

Forgot to say, RSR racers was broken down when we arrived for our RT today. The CM at the entrance was issuing FPs to return any time the rest of today and crossing off our RT on the DAS so we could get a new RT for another ride. We were never able to make it back though.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

We are back from our four day trip to DL over the long weekend (including the Halloween party on Friday night), and I am still trying to process what I think of the changes.

Overall, I think Disney did a really good job implementing the new system, but I think there are still some kinks to be worked out. As I and others have said earlier, I hope they will factor in the FP wait time into the return time--some of the FP lines were *really* long over the incredibly busy weekend, and extremely difficult for DS. In effect you are waiting the standby time plus the FP time. We were able to find work arounds for the long FP lines, but it wasn't easy and required a lot of explaining.

We also noticed a big increase in our tiredness from the added amount of walking compared to previous trips. Even with planning we felt like we were walking back and forth all over the place. We were fortunate to have family members who could serve as "runners," but I feel for those who won't have that flexibility.

There is no way around it: with the new card flexibility has definitely been lost, and for us, that is going to make a difference in how often we return to the parks. I would be very cautious about going at busy times, as there were so few rides with short waits to kill the long wait times for the DAS. For DS we basically need "walk on" without the pass, which made riding something else really difficult. FP worked for one ride a day, but by time we'd ridden that first ride or could pick up another, the times were so late in the day, we couldn't do it (DS can't last all day). So factor in crowds if you are planning a trip with the new card. The problem, of course, is that there are so few slow periods at DL anymore with all the local AP holders. Also, if you go at a busy time be prepared for a long line at GS. The line at DL in the am was crazy.

With respect to GS, be prepared to do a lot more explaining than you are used to to get the card. I, frankly, wish they would make it even harder. There were some people in line next to me, who talked them into a card even though according to the guidelines they shouldn't have been given one. I hope it cuts down on the abuse, but I did see an awful lot of "invisible" disabilities as the weekend went on. People are savvy and will learn the magic words quickly. I'm not sure there is any way to truly curb abuse unless they make the DAS so restrictive that it takes away the incentive.

Overall, I can't help but feel sad that a program that really worked for people who needed it, had to be changed. The DAS definitely helps, but it requires more work and patience that not all kids will have.

 

[cmwade77]

I have said it before and I will say it again, the simple solution is to stop doing return times. Instead when you first get in line for the first ride of the day, write the date, time, wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. Then the person can't go on the next ride until the wait time of the first one has passed and this will continue throughout the day at each attraction.

In order to keep this fair, everyone would need a card that needs to use accessible entrances at non mainstreamed queues. But it would ensure equal wait times, fixes many of the issues that have come up with return times and will lower the costs to run the system. Yes, there will be some issues, but all in all it would have fewer issues than return times while still accomplishing the same effect.

 

[piratenightmares]

I have said it before and I will say it again, the simple solution is to stop doing return times. Instead when you first get in line for the first ride of the day, write the date, time, wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. Then the person can't go on the next ride until the wait time of the first one has passed and this will continue throughout the day at each attraction.

In order to keep this fair, everyone would need a card that needs to use accessible entrances at non mainstreamed queues. But it would ensure equal wait times, fixes many of the issues that have come up with return times and will lower the costs to run the system. Yes, there will be some issues, but all in all it would have fewer issues than return times while still accomplishing the same effect.

You're hired.

 

[cmwade77]

You're hired.

I honestly don't quite know why they chose not to do it my suggested way, other parks do it this way and it works very well and reduces abuse, as people know they will be waiting an equal amount of time. I am sure Disney has its reasons, but I just can't imagine what they are. And many of these other parks tried return times first, but they didn't work, much for the reasons we ate seeing now.

 

[Vidia2]

I have said it before and I will say it again, the simple solution is to stop doing return times. Instead when you first get in line for the first ride of the day, write the date, time, wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. Then the person can't go on the next ride until the wait time of the first one has passed and this will continue throughout the day at each attraction.

In order to keep this fair, everyone would need a card that needs to use accessible entrances at non mainstreamed queues. But it would ensure equal wait times, fixes many of the issues that have come up with return times and will lower the costs to run the system. Yes, there will be some issues, but all in all it would have fewer issues than return times while still accomplishing the same effect.

???

 

[cmwade77]

???

I am just curious what the question is? with mysuggestion everyone waits their fair turn, but instead of getting a time to come back, they get to go on the ride, then wait before they can go on the next ride. This eliminates the problem of kids that can't understand why they have to leave and come back, eliminates backtracking, eliminates the issue of getting return times close to park closing and having them say they can't do it, eliminates the need for the kiosks. Just being able to eliminate the kiosks would save approximately $6,000 (this is probably a lot higher number, as I used conservative numbers to guesstimate this) a day in labor costs alone.

I also suggested it, as it addressed the extra walling that the pp mentioned.

 

[Vidia2]

I am just curious what the question is? with mysuggestion everyone waits their fair turn, but instead of getting a time to come back, they get to go on the ride, then wait before they can go on the next ride. This eliminates the problem of kids that can't understand why they have to leave and come back, eliminates backtracking, eliminates the issue of getting return times close to park closing and having them say they can't do it, eliminates the need for the kiosks. Just being able to eliminate the kiosks would save approximately $6,000 (this is probably a lot higher number, as I used conservative numbers to guesstimate this) a day in labor costs alone.

I also suggested it, as it addressed the extra walling that the pp mentioned.

Sorry, I just didn't understand what you meant. Sounds like a better system to me. Too bad we don't have a say.

 

[Jperiod]

I didn't get it either, but now I do and it IS much better!! That would eliminate the inflexibility of not knowing what ride your kid will be in the mood for in xx time or where you'll be!

 

[CuppieCake04]

I read elsewhere that one of the accommodations that might be considered is to allow for multiple ridings on something without having to have your card re-stamped and waiting in line again (presumably to handle the children who tend to get fixated, or have issues with transitions). Can anyone comment on this?

If this is the case that would change things for us. My son is one of those children who get fixated on a ride. We ride that ride over and over. SO much so on our last trip I got a frequent flyer card on Star tours. As we went through it so many times on our trip that the CMS at the ride actually remembered us, and on our last day she gave me the award for being a trooper...

after 4 weeks at disney i still HAVE NOT seen most of MK, as I spend all my time at space mountain...lol

 

[cmwade77]

Sorry, I just didn't understand what you meant. Sounds like a better system to me. Too bad we don't have a say.

it's Ok, I just didn't know what the question was.

But we do get a say, at least if enough people write Disney with feedback. Believe me they are listening right now.

What they won't do is simply go back to the old system, but if enough people write requesting something like I have suggested, since it would have similar results to the return time passes, we might have a chance to get it.

 

[disney david]

it's Ok, I just didn't know what the question was.

But we do get a say, at least if enough people write Disney with feedback. Believe me they are listening right now.

What they won't do is simply go back to the old system, but if enough people write requesting something like I have suggested, since it would have similar results to the return time passes, we might have a chance to get it.

Your right but I don't think they will go to that system they will make small changes. But don't think they will implement where you get right on a ride then have to wait. I could be wrong but since other theme park do basically the same system their no reason for them to make that change. I see them making change to return times when as a pp said about a ride closing I see some other small changes but not where you get right on the first ride then wait for the rest of your rides. Maybe they make it simpler but they want to stay away from people trying to abuse it as min as they can.




I am in no way saying no one should write Disney please do let them know what works and what dose. As pin as you tried it let them know they my change it to that system I could be wrong In my opinion I don't think so. But they are differently listening and will make some changes As they see fit.

 

[WheeledTraveler]

I have said it before and I will say it again, the simple solution is to stop doing return times. Instead when you first get in line for the first ride of the day, write the date, time, wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. Then the person can't go on the next ride until the wait time of the first one has passed and this will continue throughout the day at each attraction.

I think the problem with this idea at Disney (both DL/DCA and WDW) is that while it might reduce the abuse issues, it does not reduce the chances of crowding at alternate entrances. Disney originally started working on the changes because of the problems with bunching and not being able to control alternate entrance waits. By giving return times the way the DAS works, some of the use of alternate entrances should be more spread out. If everyone rode first before they waited, there would still be the bunching/crowding at alternate entrances. I know that it's still there now to an extent (especially in DL/DCA), but the DAS has only been in place a week. That's something that really should get worked out with experience.

 

[SueM in MN]

I have said it before and I will say it again, the simple solution is to stop doing return times. Instead when you first get in line for the first ride of the day, write the date, time, wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. Then the person can't go on the next ride until the wait time of the first one has passed and this will continue throughout the day at each attraction.

In order to keep this fair, everyone would need a card that needs to use accessible entrances at non mainstreamed queues. But it would ensure equal wait times, fixes many of the issues that have come up with return times and will lower the costs to run the system. Yes, there will be some issues, but all in all it would have fewer issues than return times while still accomplishing the same effect.

I'm curious how you would propose they figure the next wait time?

If they set it based on what the current wait time was for the ride just ridden, they will still need staff to write down the time you got in line and assign next wait times.
Instead of kiosks, it would have to be at the attraction, so I don't see any labor savings. In fact, it may cost more than kiosks at DL because there might need to be 2 CMs - one to sign cards for arrival time and one to assign return times (some attraction exit in a different spot).

For example, I rode Small World and waited 10 minutes for my first ride (because it took that long to walk from the entrance to board).
When I get off, the wait at Small World is now 20 minutes, so after I have gotten off, I have to go to a CM at Small World to get a new time assigned. But, is it 20 minutes in the future that is the current wait or the 10 that I waited?
And, that CM is also signing people in, so I'm sure they will get people saying, I got off 10 minutes ago, but I was waiting in line.
And, will the person with the DAS who may not understand the process think they are going right back on the ride again because that was what happened the last time they checked in with a CM?

So, anyway, now I have a 20 minute wait time on my card. I decide to go to Splash Mountain, which currently has a 60 minute wait.
It took me more than 20 minutes to walk there. When I arrive, I check in with the CM to get an arrival time and since my 'wait time' is over, I get right into the Fastpass line.
20 minutes later, I get off Splash Mountain and check in with the CM assigning return times. Since my wait in the Fastpass line was 10, the actual ride is 7 minutes send it took me 5 minutes to walk back to the time assigner CM, he puts a wait time of 22 minutes on my card.

So, in 22 minutes, I can go to any other attraction, no matter what the wait and get on right away.

I can see a lot more potential for abuse and people would very quickly figure out to go first to an attraction means they can use the Fastpass line all day without ever waiting. It would satisfy the people who want the old GAC back because it would work the same way for them, either a little extra documentation on a card.

I honestly don't quite know why they chose not to do it my suggested way, other parks do it this way and it works very well and reduces abuse, as people know they will be waiting an equal amount of time. I am sure Disney has its reasons, but I just can't imagine what they are. And many of these other parks tried return times first, but they didn't work, much for the reasons we ate seeing now.

I'm curious what parks do it the way you are suggesting and how you know it reduces abuse?
The parks I have heard of are essentially doing the same procedure as WDW.
They may have a bit different details, like Universal/IOA in Florida allow the guest to go right into their equivalent of Fastpass line if the wait is 20 minutes or less, but the basic process is very similar.

Do I think they will tweak WDW's DAS?
Yes - once they have had it in use long enough to know what the effects of it are.

Do I think they will make major changes to it?
No - this is not something they just pulled out of a hat 4 months ago. From what I have heard, they have been working on this for about 2 years. They have looked at east other parks are doing and have changed to a system that is very similar to what other similar parks are doing.

My impression of the DAS is that is sounds workable and fair. It will mean some people who didn't plan set all will have to do some planning and there will be people that it doesn't work as well for as the GAC did.
But, GAC is gone and not coming back.

I go to WDW, not DL, but the programs at each coast should be similar.
My DD has cerebral palsy and despite being in a wheelchair (she can't walk at all), she still gets very fatigued and has low stamina. Her muscle tone goes from Barbie doll stiff to rag doll.
She has sensory issues that make waiting in some lines very difficult for her - they are too noisy, too busy and too much going on. Then , she has to contend either other guests in line who scoot by her wheelchair, pass things over her head to their friends in line and sometimes let their toddlers sit on her feet because her footrest is perfect chair height for a 2 year old.
She is obsessive compulsive about certain things, like people possibly touching her backpack. She can have meltdowns when she is at her limit (with pinching (mostly me) - we understand that she has 'hit the wall' and needs to be removed. She takes a time out until she is calmed down. A kid in meltdown is not in a frame of mind yo enjoy anyway from my point of view.
She understands, but can't talk, so if something is wrong, we often have to play 20 questions to figure out what it is. That can get frustrating to all of us, but when she is frustrated, she can't listen anymore or communicate and all we get is 'no, no, all finished' signed to us.

Our bathroom stops may take an hour (with waiting for the restroom we need) and lunch can take an hour extra because we have to feed her. And, if she has seizure or gets to a point where her day is over because she can't keep her trunk up in her wheelchair any more, her day might be over.

But, this all our life and we cope with it. Because she is a young adult, we have had lots of experience coping with it, but we do cope and make adjustments all the time.
Sometimes, it means one of us going to First Aid to put her for a rest out of her wheelchair. Sometimes it means one or all of us going back to the room.
Some days it means me or DH coming to the park at opening so we can ride the things she can't.

We did use the GAC, but we used it pretty much the way they are suggesting using DAS. We planned ahead of time which park to go to based on which was least likely to be busy. We choose attractions that had the shortest wait times and used Fastpass as much as possible. We saved the GAC for those attractions that she could not do without it. And, did not feel bad using it for things where we had an extra wait because we need the wheelchair accessible car.

So, for us, DAS will be pretty much the same as what we were doing. Of course, it will take some getting used to - it is different, but different doesn't necessarily mean bad, just different.

 

[Vidia2]

I think the problem with this idea at Disney (both DL/DCA and WDW) is that while it might reduce the abuse issues, it does not reduce the chances of crowding at alternate entrances. Disney originally started working on the changes because of the problems with bunching and not being able to control alternate entrance waits. By giving return times the way the DAS works, some of the use of alternate entrances should be more spread out. If everyone rode first before they waited, there would still be the bunching/crowding at alternate entrances. I know that it's still there now to an extent (especially in DL/DCA), but the DAS has only been in place a week. That's something that really should get worked out with experience.

Either way there won't be any less crowding at alternate entrances or Fastpass lines due to the new system. We'll all still be using those entrances and most of us will still be riding the same amount of rides using the FP line. This is really an illusion of change by giving us a token wait time in which we'll be using our other fastpasses or doing other things that we'd be doing anyway. This is intended to weed out Abusers and will do nothing about how many people are in the alt entrances. Nothing. No matter how long it takes for the castmbers to get used to the system or any other factor.

 

[2tinkerbell]

Thanks Sue for your great post!

 

[PatMcDuck]

I realize I am in the minority with this situation, but assuming my son is eligible for the DAS (and I think he will be), I will now be able to have him walk onto a few rides. Before, they would see him in the Convaid chair, and have us wheel up the alternate entrance. This was OK, as there was rarely a line (except Space Mt at DL).

Some lines are getting harder and harder for me to push him, the ones with hills,, up and down. I am getting older, and it is hard to hold onto that chair on a standby line, even with the brake. With FP, I can make him walk on some of them during the day. I will now make sure to try this on any rides with those long accessible entrances, to help the situation for others. I had him walk onto Space last month at WDW, and that helped me so much. I would have to see how it goes, but if I push him around in between the lines, he might be able to walk on most actual attraction lines, if they are not too long.

He would not be able to wait on long standby lines (MANY issues, including autism), but I have no problem with him waiting in general, of course. We are going in February, a slow time, which will be our plan from now on. But he does walk slow, and people are so rude on the lines, I will say. And he is slow to get in and out of some of the rides as well.

 

[cmwade77]

I'm curious how you would propose they figure the next wait time?

If they set it based on what the current wait time was for the ride just ridden, they will still need staff to write down the time you got in line and assign next wait times.
Instead of kiosks, it would have to be at the attraction, so I don't see any labor savings. In fact, it may cost more than kiosks at DL because there might need to be 2 CMs - one to sign cards for arrival time and one to assign return times (some attraction exit in a different spot).

For example, I rode Small World and waited 10 minutes for my first ride (because it took that long to walk from the entrance to board).
When I get off, the wait at Small World is now 20 minutes, so after I have gotten off, I have to go to a CM at Small World to get a new time assigned. But, is it 20 minutes in the future that is the current wait or the 10 that I waited?
And, that CM is also signing people in, so I'm sure they will get people saying, I got off 10 minutes ago, but I was waiting in line.
And, will the person with the DAS who may not understand the process think they are going right back on the ride again because that was what happened the last time they checked in with a CM?

So, anyway, now I have a 20 minute wait time on my card. I decide to go to Splash Mountain, which currently has a 60 minute wait.
It took me more than 20 minutes to walk there. When I arrive, I check in with the CM to get an arrival time and since my 'wait time' is over, I get right into the Fastpass line.
20 minutes later, I get off Splash Mountain and check in with the CM assigning return times. Since my wait in the Fastpass line was 10, the actual ride is 7 minutes send it took me 5 minutes to walk back to the time assigner CM, he puts a wait time of 22 minutes on my card.

So, in 22 minutes, I can go to any other attraction, no matter what the wait and get on right away.

I can see a lot more potential for abuse and people would very quickly figure out to go first to an attraction means they can use the Fastpass line all day without ever waiting. It would satisfy the people who want the old GAC back because it would work the same way for them, either a little extra documentation on a card.


I'm curious what parks do it the way you are suggesting and how you know it reduces abuse?
The parks I have heard of are essentially doing the same procedure as WDW.
They may have a bit different details, like Universal/IOA in Florida allow the guest to go right into their equivalent of Fastpass line if the wait is 20 minutes or less, but the basic process is very similar.

Do I think they will tweak WDW's DAS?
Yes - once they have had it in use long enough to know what the effects of it are.

Do I think they will make major changes to it?
No - this is not something they just pulled out of a hat 4 months ago. From what I have heard, they have been working on this for about 2 years. They have looked at east other parks are doing and have changed to a system that is very similar to what other similar parks are doing.

My impression of the DAS is that is sounds workable and fair. It will mean some people who didn't plan set all will have to do some planning and there will be people that it doesn't work as well for as the GAC did.
But, GAC is gone and not coming back.

I go to WDW, not DL, but the programs at each coast should be similar.
My DD has cerebral palsy and despite being in a wheelchair (she can't walk at all), she still gets very fatigued and has low stamina. Her muscle tone goes from Barbie doll stiff to rag doll.
She has sensory issues that make waiting in some lines very difficult for her - they are too noisy, too busy and too much going on. Then , she has to contend either other guests in line who scoot by her wheelchair, pass things over her head to their friends in line and sometimes let their toddlers sit on her feet because her footrest is perfect chair height for a 2 year old.
She is obsessive compulsive about certain things, like people possibly touching her backpack. She can have meltdowns when she is at her limit (with pinching (mostly me) - we understand that she has 'hit the wall' and needs to be removed. She takes a time out until she is calmed down. A kid in meltdown is not in a frame of mind yo enjoy anyway from my point of view.
She understands, but can't talk, so if something is wrong, we often have to play 20 questions to figure out what it is. That can get frustrating to all of us, but when she is frustrated, she can't listen anymore or communicate and all we get is 'no, no, all finished' signed to us.

Our bathroom stops may take an hour (with waiting for the restroom we need) and lunch can take an hour extra because we have to feed her. And, if she has seizure or gets to a point where her day is over because she can't keep her trunk up in her wheelchair any more, her day might be over.

But, this all our life and we cope with it. Because she is a young adult, we have had lots of experience coping with it, but we do cope and make adjustments all the time.
Sometimes, it means one of us going to First Aid to put her for a rest out of her wheelchair. Sometimes it means one or all of us going back to the room.
Some days it means me or DH coming to the park at opening so we can ride the things she can't.

We did use the GAC, but we used it pretty much the way they are suggesting using DAS. We planned ahead of time which park to go to based on which was least likely to be busy. We choose attractions that had the shortest wait times and used Fastpass as much as possible. We saved the GAC for those attractions that she could not do without it. And, did not feel bad using it for things where we had an extra wait because we need the wheelchair accessible car.

So, for us, DAS will be pretty much the same as what we were doing. Of course, it will take some getting used to - it is different, but different doesn't necessarily mean bad, just different.

Of course it would be at each attraction, but these CMs are already there, hence the savings. (The Kiosks cost a minimum of $6,000 a day to run, that is assuming 3.5 CMs per kiosk, the .5 representing the one that is the runner to GR, relieves people for breaks, etc. with a modest cost of $18 per hour per CM, which accounts for pay, benefits, etc. and an average of 12 operating hours per day with a total of 8 kiosks. This doesn't count the additional kiosks added during busier times, electricity, the physical costs of the kiosks, etc.)

Basically it would be the first CM you speak with at each attraction or in other words, the one that tells you where to go and the time would be based off the current wait time. All they need to do is when you get in line, write down the time & date you entered the line, the current posted wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. One CM can write down all of this information when you get in line. This accounts for the time that you wait in that line automatically.

As I said, other local theme parks, Universal Studios Hollywood and Sea World San Diego in particular, started with Return Time passes and ran into a lot of the issues we are already seeing at Disneyland, so they moved to the system that I am suggesting.

Now, granted, neither park has a FP system, but both have a paid front of the line system. So, yes there would need to be something done about that portion. I am not saying that my system wouldn't have issues like this to be worked out, it would, but ultimately it would eliminate the issues that we have seen creep up so far.

Some of the issues with the current system are:

• A lot of extra walking for people with disabilities. Yes, others can get return times, but at DL, many people come by themselves.
• Kids that have disabilities to where they don't understand going to the attraction, but not riding and then coming back. (This is more at WDW)
• What happens when the wait time would mean that the park will be closed before your return time? Someone else can still get in the standby line at this time, but those who need assistance cannot, making the system not equal. Bottom line is if the point is to make the waits equal, they need to be completely equal.
• If you are unable to ride an attraction or no longer feel like riding that attraction, your wait time starts over, even if you have waited the entire length of the standby line.
• The current system does not take into account the waiting you do once you get back to the attraction and at several attractions, that wait time could be longer than the standby line was, meaning you have to wait double the length of everyone else.
• The current system is not preventing long backups in the accessible queues.

As to how I know it reduces abuse, there's the fact that these parks have said as much in conversations that I have had with their offices. Can you tell that I am one to take an active roll in getting what I need? But in this case, I was just letting them know how well the system worked out. But beyond that, when they used Return Times, I would wait substantially longer when returning, due to more people using the system than I do with the system they have in place now. And I have seen many other similar reports.

Universal Studios Hollywood has the most sophisticated system. There is a scanner when you first get in line, the CM scans the card, the display lights up green if you are good to go and red if you need to wait longer. If it turns red, it displays what time the pass will be valid at, the CM can choose to override it, if they think there is a reason to do so though, for example, I have seen it be a 5 minute difference for someone and the CM will override it. If the screen displays green, it will display what the next time the card will be valid at is. And yes, the standard practice at all parks, aside from Disney seems to be that when the wait is 20 minutes or less, they don't worry about it.

This system would naturally disperse those needing assistance, to where there shouldn't be long backups. If they found long backups on particular attractions were still happening, they could come up with alternatives for those.

Another option that may address many of these concerns is to offer a Smartphone App that can scan the QR code on the DAS and assign return times, eliminating the need to walk all the way to the attraction or kiosk. Of course they would need physical Kiosks that could do the same thing as well, but these could even be Kiosks that double up with the FP+ kiosks at WDW and ones that are unstaffed or have minimal staffing at DL.

But the point is, that there are indeed a few issues that are not being addressed by the current system at present. Perhaps there are tweaks that they can make to address these issues and still use the return times, or they can go to a system like the one I suggested, yes as pointed out, with FP available, they would need to make some tweaks to the concept, but it can be done.

Don't get me wrong, overall, I am glad that Disney is making a change, it has been needed for a very long time, all of us who need the assistance know this much. But there are issues that still need to be ironed out and these are issues that many of us could have told them would occur prior to the roll out, which means that they should have been able to figure out that these issues would occur and plan for how to combat them. But they didn't, which means, they either didn't think it through all the way or simply didn't care about these issues, which are actually a very big deal for many people. I am definitely not saying that they should go back to the GAC, I am all for waiting my fair turn, but I am also for complete equality to those who do not need assistance. This includes things like not needing to do extra walking. For those in ECVs, the extra distance is even more problematic, as there is limited battery power available and again if they are by themselves, then what do they do?

That being said, for the style in which I tour the parks, getting a return time pass doesn't affect me all that much, because I tend to do a ride that would have a return time, then a show, then maybe a ride that wouldn't have a return time, then maybe another one that does and at DL, chances are I would pass a kiosk somewhere after my initial return time. But there are issues that I take with the current system that need to be addressed in some manner. My solution addresses all of them, but I am sure it is not the only solution out there. My point when saying write to Disney is that we do get a say, express your concerns, point out what's not working and if you like my suggested method, please tell them. And no system is going to be perfect, but what I suggested was based off of my experiences at various parks.

Hopefully this makes sense, I have written it in bits and pieces when I get a break at work. So if something doesn't seem to flow, hopefully you can understand why.

 

[disney david]

Of course it would be at each attraction, but these CMs are already there, hence the savings. (The Kiosks cost a minimum of $6,000 a day to run, that is assuming 3.5 CMs per kiosk, the .5 representing the one that is the runner to GR, relieves people for breaks, etc. with a modest cost of $18 per hour per CM, which accounts for pay, benefits, etc. and an average of 12 operating hours per day with a total of 8 kiosks. This doesn't count the additional kiosks added during busier times, electricity, the physical costs of the kiosks, etc.)

Basically it would be the first CM you speak with at each attraction or in other words, the one that tells you where to go and the time would be based off the current wait time. All they need to do is when you get in line, write down the time & date you entered the line, the current posted wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. One CM can write down all of this information when you get in line. This accounts for the time that you wait in that line automatically.

As I said, other local theme parks, Universal Studios Hollywood and Sea World San Diego in particular, started with Return Time passes and ran into a lot of the issues we are already seeing at Disneyland, so they moved to the system that I am suggesting.

Now, granted, neither park has a FP system, but both have a paid front of the line system. So, yes there would need to be something done about that portion. I am not saying that my system wouldn't have issues like this to be worked out, it would, but ultimately it would eliminate the issues that we have seen creep up so far.

Some of the issues with the current system are:

[*]A lot of extra walking for people with disabilities. Yes, others can get return times, but at DL, many people come by themselves.
[*]Kids that have disabilities to where they don't understand going to the attraction, but not riding and then coming back. (This is more at WDW)
[*]What happens when the wait time would mean that the park will be closed before your return time? Someone else can still get in the standby line at this time, but those who need assistance cannot, making the system not equal. Bottom line is if the point is to make the waits equal, they need to be completely equal.
[*]If you are unable to ride an attraction or no longer feel like riding that attraction, your wait time starts over, even if you have waited the entire length of the standby line.
[*]The current system does not take into account the waiting you do once you get back to the attraction and at several attractions, that wait time could be longer than the standby line was, meaning you have to wait double the length of everyone else.
[*]The current system is not preventing long backups in the accessible queues.


As to how I know it reduces abuse, there's the fact that these parks have said as much in conversations that I have had with their offices. Can you tell that I am one to take an active roll in getting what I need? But in this case, I was just letting them know how well the system worked out. But beyond that, when they used Return Times, I would wait substantially longer when returning, due to more people using the system than I do with the system they have in place now. And I have seen many other similar reports.

Universal Studios Hollywood has the most sophisticated system. There is a scanner when you first get in line, the CM scans the card, the display lights up green if you are good to go and red if you need to wait longer. If it turns red, it displays what time the pass will be valid at, the CM can choose to override it, if they think there is a reason to do so though, for example, I have seen it be a 5 minute difference for someone and the CM will override it. If the screen displays green, it will display what the next time the card will be valid at is. And yes, the standard practice at all parks, aside from Disney seems to be that when the wait is 20 minutes or less, they don't worry about it.

This system would naturally disperse those needing assistance, to where there shouldn't be long backups. If they found long backups on particular attractions were still happening, they could come up with alternatives for those.

Another option that may address many of these concerns is to offer a Smartphone App that can scan the QR code on the DAS and assign return times, eliminating the need to walk all the way to the attraction or kiosk. Of course they would need physical Kiosks that could do the same thing as well, but these could even be Kiosks that double up with the FP+ kiosks at WDW and ones that are unstaffed or have minimal staffing at DL.

But the point is, that there are indeed a few issues that are not being addressed by the current system at present. Perhaps there are tweaks that they can make to address these issues and still use the return times, or they can go to a system like the one I suggested, yes as pointed out, with FP available, they would need to make some tweaks to the concept, but it can be done.

Don't get me wrong, overall, I am glad that Disney is making a change, it has been needed for a very long time, all of us who need the assistance know this much. But there are issues that still need to be ironed out and these are issues that many of us could have told them would occur prior to the roll out, which means that they should have been able to figure out that these issues would occur and plan for how to combat them. But they didn't, which means, they either didn't think it through all the way or simply didn't care about these issues, which are actually a very big deal for many people. I am definitely not saying that they should go back to the GAC, I am all for waiting my fair turn, but I am also for complete equality to those who do not need assistance. This includes things like not needing to do extra walking. For those in ECVs, the extra distance is even more problematic, as there is limited battery power available and again if they are by themselves, then what do they do?

That being said, for the style in which I tour the parks, getting a return time pass doesn't affect me all that much, because I tend to do a ride that would have a return time, then a show, then maybe a ride that wouldn't have a return time, then maybe another one that does and at DL, chances are I would pass a kiosk somewhere after my initial return time. But there are issues that I take with the current system that need to be addressed in some manner. My solution addresses all of them, but I am sure it is not the only solution out there. My point when saying write to Disney is that we do get a say, express your concerns, point out what's not working and if you like my suggested method, please tell them. And no system is going to be perfect, but what I suggested was based off of my experiences at various parks.

Hopefully this makes sense, I have written it in bits and pieces when I get a break at work. So if something doesn't seem to flow, hopefully you can understand why.

I am not sure that figure right that seems high but if that what Disney wants why fight it. You have people who would be not happy if they removed the kiosk and you had to go to each attraction. Plus Disney can bring down the cost right now it my be high due to it being new. I am sure mr iger happy your thinking of his bottom line but sometimes spending money is worth it.

 

[Aladora]

I am not sure that figure right that seems high but if that what Disney wants why fight it. You have people who would be not happy if they removed the kiosk and you had to go to each attraction. Plus Disney can bring down the cost right now it my be high due to it being new. I am sure mr iger happy your thinking of his bottom line but sometimes spending money is worth it.

I would really love it if we had the option of either going to the kiosk OR the attraction.

Every time we have gone to ride RSR, we have used the same terminology with our son. "Let's go see what time we can get to ride RSR!" That idea works for him so we get the RT and go find something else to do. Going up to a kiosk with so many choices is going to be a bit of a challenge for him.

I am really interested in the potential changes that are going to happen between now and when our next trip is.