Does the new Genie+ pay-per-attraction system alter your views on DVC's value?

[Donna M]

I will say I have not been since park to resort package delivery was not available. I did use it, but could this be a staff issue. I would gladly pay for that. I just think much of this is a Pandemic staffing issue that only time will tell.

And I know everyone's mileage varies. I lost my mother and my mother in law during the Pandemic, and all of this to me is small stuff.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom and mother in law. Those loses really let you know what is important in the world.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I said this on another thread, and I am going to repeat it here....

DVC does not get handed down perks from on high by some executive committee. They have to negotiate with the other business units for them. Imagine what that conversation would look like right now...

DVC: We want some of that Genie action stuff.
P&R: OK... but what do you want?
DVC: Well, what does it do?
P&R: It's complicated and we are not sure yet what the impact is going to be.
DVC: Well, give us something useful and tell us what our cost would be
P&R: We have no idea yet what is going to be useful. Or how much it costs. Kinda hard since we have no metrics about who is going to buy it, how they are going to use it, or what parts of it they like and don't like.
DVC: .......
P&R: ......

Point being, DVC can't negotiate with P&R on a new system that no one has any idea what it's going to really do. Plus with the 50th, and the changes to all the perks company wide, there is really just not much chance for DVC to even know who to negotiate with and for what.

DVC has a proven track record that they are a strong BU in the company, and they are pretty good negotiators. But Disney has re-invented a lot in the past 6 months to a year and you have got to give DVC a little time to feel things out, figure out what is worth getting, and how they can get the budget to buy it, or sell it as a win to the other BU to give it to them at a discount. But I have confidence that given time, DVC will get some perks under the new systems - as they have grown from an infant BU to a mature one in the past 25 years, they have continued to convince the other BU's of the advantages year after year.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

You glanced over the fact that you likely cannot do 2 boarding group rides and only 1 if you are lucky, unless you pay...so no, standby is not an option.

In 1 case with rotr, they built a ride that cannot handle normal capacity (which was likely done with this new pricing scheme in mind) and with RAT they are artifically creating the need for boarding groups on a ride that can easily handle the capacity.

Knowing for a fact that Tron and Guardians will both be boarding group rides, the literal only way you can do these activities will be to pay day of.... or pay to come back again.

Disney is quickly creating a park where it will cost you $150 to get in and another $50 to actually ride the best stuff. They didnt have the guts to just raise the general price to $200.

We can sugar coat it however anyone wants though.

Just being honest here - I think you are reading a lot into things that have not happened yet.

 

[tjkraz]

I said this on another thread, and I am going to repeat it here....

DVC does not get handed down perks from on high by some executive committee. They have to negotiate with the other business units for them.

This is true but there are two important things to bear in mind:

1) DVC "perks" often have some cost associated with them. DVC didn't simply negotiate for the EPCOT lounge, Moonlight Magic or even the AP discount, rather fees associated with those items are being paid out of DVC's budget (not member dues, but the sales & marketing side funded by DVC/DVD.)

2) Even if DVC wants something doesn't mean they're going to get it.

For years members questioned "why can't we get an extra FastPass...it costs Disney nothing!?" Well, the answer is that parks & resorts viewed FPs as a commodity that impacts all guests' experiences. Assuming this topic came up at some point, either P&R wasn't willing to flood the system with another 30-40k passes per day for DVC owners, or the price they established was something DVC was unwilling to pay.

I don't see any way that DVC owners get free daily access to Genie+. That's way too valuable. Assuming Parks & Resorts wants to project Genie+ as an incredible buy at $15 each, adding tens-of-thousands of DVC owners to the system only diminishes its quality. Yes it would allow Disney to book some revenue specifically associated with the Genie+ product, but that's just Disney moving money from one pocket to the other (DVC -> Genie+).

More realistic might be a G+ discount for DVC owners. Or maybe some sort of "one free genie+ day for every 5 nights in a DVC resort." (which itself would require computer programming to administer, which adds to the cost.) But even those sorts of things take a willingness from both parties. I'm not sure such a willingness exists.

 

[Jillpie]

And then there's my demographic. We are finished raising our kids and bringing them to Disney every year for over 20 years, it was a blast. We bought into BCV back in 2003 and have loved every minute. Now? We are in our 60's and want to relax. And for us, BCV and Stormalong Bay pool is the destination, so yes, it very much still holds its value. We no longer have to go to the parks, the pool is our park now. I can easily spend an entire week there, or we also enjoy having breakfast at a different resort and pool hop there for the day. These park changes are overwhelming and so disappointing. I no longer am excited to go and stare at my phone all day to get on the next ride, no way. Give me a frozen margarita pool side and I'm all set.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

This is true but there are two important things to bear in mind:

1) DVC "perks" often have some cost associated with them. DVC didn't simply negotiate for the EPCOT lounge, Moonlight Magic or even the AP discount, rather fees associated with those items are being paid out of DVC's budget (not member dues, but the sales & marketing side funded by DVC/DVD.)

2) Even if DVC wants something doesn't mean they're going to get it.

For years members questioned "why can't we get an extra FastPass...it costs Disney nothing!?" Well, the answer is that parks & resorts viewed FPs as a commodity that impacts all guests' experiences. Assuming this topic came up at some point, either P&R wasn't willing to flood the system with another 30-40k passes per day for DVC owners, or the price they established was something DVC was unwilling to pay.

I don't see any way that DVC owners get free daily access to Genie+. That's way too valuable. Assuming Parks & Resorts wants to project Genie+ as an incredible buy at $15 each, adding tens-of-thousands of DVC owners to the system only diminishes its quality. Yes it would allow Disney to book some revenue specifically associated with the Genie+ product, but that's just Disney moving money from one pocket to the other (DVC -> Genie+).

More realistic might be a G+ discount for DVC owners. Or maybe some sort of "one free genie+ day for every 5 nights in a DVC resort." (which itself would require computer programming to administer, which adds to the cost.) But even those sorts of things take a willingness from both parties. I'm not sure such a willingness exists.

Oh, 100% this. That's why I said it's hard for DVC to negotiate with P&R for anything because right now, there is not enough knowledge about what Genie+ is worth P&R needs to use the system and evaluate it and then they can talk to DVC about what's reasonable.

Also, I am not saying that any part of Genie or Genie+ will be what DVC gets. I am talking about perks AS A WHOLE. There are a lot of potential ways that deals could be worked out. It all depends on DVC's budget and what's a good deal for everyone all around.

All I am saying is that I expect DVC to work out SOME kind of perk at some point in the future after P&R has a chance to evaluate what and how these systems and perks and processes affect them. Right now, it's just too early.

 

[han22735]

But another way to look at pkg delivery from the parks to resorts is that I won't be spending as much in the parks, as I don't want to have to carry stuff around all day. I used to buy things, like T-shirts, which were often location specific, when they caught my eye and send them back to the room. I won't do that as much if I have to carry them around.

This was us for the last 2 trips. I really do miss this option and I'm afraid its all budget cut related vs staffing and will never return.

 

[disney1474]

What did it for me was when Disney announced ending ME service. Not only having to pay to get to my resort, AP's went up with less perks, and of course "FP" costs money now if you don't want to wait in standby. You know the $15 will eventually go up like everything else. My opinion......Disney did wrong to those, like myself, who are DVC and frequent visitors.
Now that I have to rent a car this will give me reason to eat offsite and check out other theme parks.

 

[zavandor]

We're going to get night EMH two nights a week for a while. It might be like two free after hours parties a week, they used to cost $100 per person per night.
After the 50th they might rethink that. Depending how G+ goes, they might decide that free G+ access to Deluxe resorts is a better perk than paying two extra nights worth of park time, and we'll get it with the other deluxe resorts.
The good thing about the night EMH is that Disney recognized they have to give something to justify the astronomical cost of onsite deluxe rooms. If DVC members are is for the ride for free, I'm all in.

 

[SL6827]

With Disney's being so shady here lately, it would not surprise me if they didn't "hide" the cost of the evening EMH into DVC dues.

 

[tjkraz]

We're going to get night EMH two nights a week for a while. It might be like two free after hours parties a week, they used to cost $100 per person per night.

It has been estimated that Disney sells about 5000 tickets for its "After Hours" branded events. Meanwhile there are about 10000 hotel rooms and villas eligible for the Extended Evening Hours. With only 2 late nights offered per week, I'm a little skeptical about what MK and Epcot will look like. It won't be much of a bonus if 25k+ people arrange their schedules to attend those nights.

 

[kniquy]

The value of DVC is in how you look at it. We bought our resale to be able to stay in a deluxe room at basically the cost of a moderate. Is DVC delivering this? Yes. The value is still there especially when the rooms for direct rooms just keep rising.

We bought resale so i guess i am less bitter about "perks" disappearing than those who bought direct and were persuaded to buy because of the perks they stated could be there.

FP actually created more stress in my life because months out from our trip we had to plot out our meals and rides. We did our past 2 trips without FP and it was a breath of fresh air. We enjoyed our family time waiting in line and felt so much more freedom. We plotted to pick rides with waits of 40 min or less. With Genie + it sounds as if you can get up at 7am buy Genie + and select your first ride, but beyond that it is just one ride at a time, so you could wait until you arrived or were on your way to the park to select your first ride. As you are in line for that first ride you can select your second. If people are paying for this service there should never be a point where there are no rides to select. They should have a cap on selling them so throughout the whole day all rides will be accessible to those who have paid. I am not sure what the reality will be when it starts.

We may try it a day or two but we certainly will not pay for it for the duration of our trip. We have changed our priorities since buying DVC, we don't have to see and do everything, we will hopefully be back and do something next time.

 

[Sandisw]

With Disney's being so shady here lately, it would not surprise me if they didn't "hide" the cost of the evening EMH into DVC dues.

Well, we do have to contribute to onsite perks like bus transportation etc. to gain access to them, so EMH, since they have existed for a long time, may already be part of the expenses we pay.

This is not something new being offered to those of us in DVC or cash guests in deluxe resorts.

 

[tjkraz]

FP actually created more stress in my life because months out from our trip we had to plot out our meals and rides. We did our past 2 trips without FP and it was a breath of fresh air. We enjoyed our family time waiting in line and felt so much more freedom. We plotted to pick rides with waits of 40 min or less.

Well, there was never any need to make FP+ selections months out. You could have done it the night before, in the morning when headed to the park or skipped it entirely. We routinely changed our plans on a day's notice and always had plenty of options to choose from. Typically not the likes of Mine Train or Pandora, but ride availability did not fill park-wide weeks in advance.

The one certainty Genie+ will bring is that Standby lines will be longer than they have been the last 15 months with no FP. Genie+ will return us to a two-tiered queuing system but unlike FP+, you only benefit if you choose to pay more. Either pay $15 per person for line skipping privileges or use the standby line and take a back seat to everyone who buys G+.

With Genie + it sounds as if you can get up at 7am buy Genie + and select your first ride, but beyond that it is just one ride at a time, so you could wait until you arrived or were on your way to the park to select your first ride. As you are in line for that first ride you can select your second. If people are paying for this service there should never be a point where there are no rides to select. They should have a cap on selling them so throughout the whole day all rides will be accessible to those who have paid. I am not sure what the reality will be when it starts.

Yes there *should* be a cap on sales. But since Disney has total control over how much ride capacity is given to G+ buyers vs the other plebs who only paid $130 for their theme park ticket, not sure I trust Disney to make good decisions.

The other factor is how far out the return times are for each LL pass obtained. Again, this speaks to the capacity. When I open the app at 10am, the next return time for Big Thunder Mountain could be 11am, 12pm, 2pm or anywhere in between. It all depends on how Disney balances capacity--how many rides they want to allow under Genie+ to make that product look good, or conversely how much they're willing to harm those who choose not to buy.

 

[zavandor]

It has been estimated that Disney sells about 5000 tickets for its "After Hours" branded events. Meanwhile there are about 10000 hotel rooms and villas eligible for the Extended Evening Hours. With only 2 late nights offered per week, I'm a little skeptical about what MK and Epcot will look like. It won't be much of a bonus if 25k+ people arrange their schedules to attend those nights.

But are those guests all willing to stay up all night? At the time of free night EMH, where all guests staying in 40k elegible rooms in the park?
I'm not sure it'll be deserted, but I think it could be a good experience. If Disney is giving this perk to Deluxe resorts only, they are creating the expectation of a deluxe experience. I hope we'll get it.

 

[tjkraz]

But are those guests all willing to stay up all night? At the time of free night EMH, where all guests staying in 40k elegible rooms in the park?
I'm not sure it'll be deserted, but I think it could be a good experience. If Disney is giving this perk to Deluxe resorts only, they are creating the expectation of a deluxe experience. I hope we'll get it.

It could be a good experience. But since EMH was much more prevalent when everyone qualified, I would argue there was less urgency to attend. When Disney offered 1-3 hours of extra admission, both mornings and nights at all 4 theme parks, there were a lot more opportunities to participate. (The planned 30 minute early entry for all is a modest benefit at best.)

Now with Animal Kingdom routinely closing at 7 and HS at 9pm, MK/EP are logical destinations for anyone interested in staying out later. Especially those who don't plan to buy Genie+, who are looking for any way to save time / extend their day.

Even if there are early reviews of low crowds, that could quickly change patterns. Water tends to seek its own level. But we'll see.

 

[Shelly F - Ohio]

Why would it change the value? When you purchase the DVC you are purchasing a room at a resort. You DVC contract does not guarentee you a reduced AP or free parties or members cruise. The amount you paid for the DVC is based on the building and operation of the resort and had nothing to do with the parks. We looked at other timeshares in the area before buy and Marriott was $25K DVC in 2004 was $12k. We bought it for the price it was and the flexiblity to book whenever where ever not a fixed week.

 

[DVCPAT]

And yet the WDC stock price is over $180 per share.

Interesting Disney survey found that family incomes of 75k and under had positive feelings toward a future Disney vacation. Family income above 75k did not have positive view of Disney. Another article mentions Disney will transform from the happiest place on earth, to the most expensive place on earth.
Disney and shelter inflation are going to hit the 75k families hard. We’ll see how Disney stock performs when pent up demand slows and stimulus money is gone. Maybe Disney will discount DVC annual passes to keep us onsite?

 

[DonMacGregor]

Interesting Disney survey found that family incomes of 75k and under had positive feelings toward a future Disney vacation. Family income above 75k did not have positive view of Disney. Another article mentions Disney will transform from the happiest place on earth, to the most expensive place on earth.
Disney and shelter inflation are going to hit the 75k families hard. We’ll see how Disney stock performs when pent up demand slows and stimulus money is gone. Maybe Disney will discount DVC annual passes to keep us onsite?

I'd venture to guess a SIGNIFICANT percentage of DVC owners didn't see a penny of stimulus money.

 

[Judique]

The more DVC members that fill up the resorts for resort only vacations with food delivery, grocery delivery and trips offsite to eat in surrounding restaurants might send a message to the powers that be.

DVC has a significant chunk of the deluxe market at WDW. Riviera, Grand Floridian, Boardwalk, Jambo House, Kidani, Copper Creek, BRV, Bay Lake, Saratoga Springs, Beach Club Villas, Polynesian and last but not least, Old Key West.

Disney is certainly seeing value in DVC. If they weren't, they wouldn't be expanding at Grand Floridian. It's not like they are building 'regular' deluxe rooms. Or even improving and promoting them.

They fell back on DVC to keep the market afloat when they couldn't get customers to fill their deluxe rooms or even fill the moderate hotels, and the once popular All Stars sank into a non entity when Pop and Art came along. They spruced up Caribbean with Riviera and the Skyliner. And when the plague hit, their easiest cash cow were the DVC members willing to fill the resorts plus some sports contracts for a few rooms.

So, they are milking us and will continue until their market downturns more and they need to get us into the parks and restaurants. There seems to be a perception that they don't need us right now, since they are not showering us with discounts and opportunity and well, thanks for being there.

They do need us. The international market is dead at present. The local market is not the target audience.

So they've finally rolled out Genie+ after what? 7 years? It was now or never. I think they are feeling nothing to lose. And when they continuously give freebies (not really free) their audience develops expectations. So, they are not ready to throw it at the well heeled yet. But they will. When the numbers are not what they want, it will be their go to enticement.

I'm long past being Disney and DVC's target. I'm old, have been there too many times, but still like to wander and look at stuff, could care less about most rides, and won't put up with a substandard room and food at astronomical prices. Will I pay high prices for a dining experience? Yes, when it is something I want or want to share with someone I care about. Will I grab a nice beverage when I feel like it? Absolutely! Will I pay $3 to $4 for water? Not on your life. Will I buy Genie+ for me? No.

That said, the once in a lifetimers will come. Will they fill the parks? Maybe not. It took years after 9 11 before things returned for the travel industry. Is it that bad now? I don't know.