Galloway Pace Groups @ RunDisney Races: The Official Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'runDisney' started by Keels, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. cheesemouse

    cheesemouse DIS Veteran

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    That is amazing! I am very much a numbers and spreadsheet person so I'm definitely going to use this. I totally get that it really depends on the specific pacer you end up getting and what their walk speed is. My current walk speed is 20:00 but really only because that's what the Galloway app uses. I'll have to play around with other walk speeds. The races is still 10 months out and I know my speeds and ratios will likely change a fair bit over time but it's so hard for me to not get caught up in the numbers! Thanks again for all of your input, much appreciated!!!
     
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  2. belleelc77

    belleelc77 Earning My Ears

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    I tried to read through the previous postings but I could not find whether or not there are pacers for the 1/2 at DLP. I used the pacers for the 2017 Princess 1/2 and felt really comfortable with them. Thanks!
     
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  4. rteetz

    rteetz Rumors and News Moderator Moderator

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    Paris is run differently than the US races so I am not sure what pacers they use.
     
  5. PrincessV

    PrincessV DIS Veteran

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    It's a valid question and my unofficial-but-personally-experienced answer is that it depends on who's doing the pacing! I run a faster half than 3:15, but wound up hanging with one of the 3:15 pace groups for a while during Dark Side, since they were there when I came back on course after a photo stop and a friend of mine was a pacer. I discovered quickly that they were running a bit faster than I, and walking slower than my norm, in addition to using different intervals than I was using. For me, it was difficult because I'm very used to running/walking at my own paces, even though the overall average pace was slower than my norm.
     
  6. ksoehrlein

    ksoehrlein Once (and Future?) CM

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    Galloway pacers will be at the Tinker Bell Half Marathon. Look for us leading the following groups:

    1:45 (8:00/mile)
    4:00/0:30 ratio
    Kris

    2:00 (9:09/mile)
    2:00/0:30 ratio
    Scott and Jeff

    2:15 (10:18/mile)
    1:30/0:30 ratio
    Mindy and Jesus

    2:30 (11:26/mile)
    1:00/0:30 ratio
    Group 1 = Kelley and Liz;
    Group 2 = Sheena and Jennifer

    2:45 (12:35/mile)
    0:30/0:30 ratio
    Jen and Lailah

    3:00 (13:43/mile)
    0:30/0:30 ratio
    Laura and Debbie

    3:15 (14:53/mile)
    0:15/0:30 ratio
    Vicki Sue and Kimberly

    3:30 (16:00/mile)
    0:15/0:30 ratio
    Dan and Lisa
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
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  7. ksoehrlein

    ksoehrlein Once (and Future?) CM

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    It looks like Galloway pacers will be at the Disneyland Half Marathon as well as Beast Pacing pacers.

    Galloway pacers (including me) are still waiting for their assignments. I will post here once we have our times and ratios.

    Beast Pacing will have the following pacers/times:
    1:30 pending
    1:45 Doug McKay
    2:00 Jason Hill
    2:15 Sarah Coronado
    2:30 Debora Acciarito
    2:45 Jascia Redwine
    3:00 Lisa Gonzales
     
  8. Nole95

    Nole95 DIS Veteran

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    Good to see the Disneyland Half doing this. Hoping they have two different types of pace groups at Marathon Weekend.

    The run/walk pace groups are good for those who train like that, but for someone like myself who trains differently, I need pace groups that run a consistent pace throughout the race.
     
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  9. IamTrike

    IamTrike DIS Veteran

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    Consistent Pacing? Even some of the non-galloway guys struggle with that. One year during the full our pacer decided it would be good to savor the Magic Kingdom portion of the race. He then decided to make up the lost time by running the next mile or so at more than a minute per mile faster than the expected pace. Trying to run mile 12 of a 3:45 paced marathon at a sub 7:30 pace is not fun, so I wound up dropping out of that pace group.
     
  10. dta87

    dta87 DIS Veteran

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    Is there a similar chart for the marathon pace groups or can it just be extrapolated that a 5:00 finish time would correspond to 60/30 run walk with an average pace of 11:26? During training I am doing a 60/30 interval but getting around a 10:20 pace for the overall run so I guess I am running too fast. Basically I am trying to figure out what run walk interval I should train at 60/30, 90/30, etc to reach my goal
     
  11. camaker

    camaker Anything worth doing is worth overdoing

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    This is the reason that run/walk interval pacing can be way more complicated than pacing for continuous running. Individuals run and walk at different paces, so a 60/30 interval set will give one overall pace for you and a completely different pace for someone else. If you go with the Galloway pacer approach you are pretty much committing yourself to running and walking at the paces that the pacer sets whether they are comfortable for you or not.

    Based on the information that you gave, I don't think it can be concluded that you are running too fast. You're just running faster (and/or walking faster) than that pacer plans to. The question is whether the pacing that your 60/30 interval gives you is sustainable over the course of the race after you've completed the training. If you think that's going to end up being too fast and unsustainable, I'd recommend playing with several variables (run rate, walk rate, run time and walk time) during your training runs to identify a comfortable interval set at a pacing that will meet your overall goal.
     
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  12. dta87

    dta87 DIS Veteran

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    Thanks. The best I have done for a "straight run" for a distance is a 10 miler at a little better than a 9 min pace and my PR for a half is 2:05 so I am thinking that pace should be sustainable (I am not sure for a marathon length though but I am sure I will find out as the Dopey training progresses). I just started the run/walk training a month ago in an attempt to mitigate the knee issues I was having. I was looking at the Galloway site and it says a 60/30 ratio is about a 10:45-12:15 pace and like you were saying it is difficult to figure out what pace you are supposed to be running/walking at (I guess I need to do an actual Magic Mile to figure that out at least for the running pace). But so far in the 10+ runs I have not hit that 10:45 window even during this heat wave.
     
  13. DopeyBadger

    DopeyBadger Imagathoner

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    Based on a 10 miler at a little better than a 9 minute mile (I did exactly 9 minute mile), you get the following race equivalency profile (assuming these are recent times and this is a measure of current fitness):

    Screen Shot 2017-08-09 at 3.07.08 PM.png

    Which puts your estimated HM at a 1:59:52.

    The way I look at it is run/walk is simply continuous running but with speed intervals and rest breaks. So, the 60/30 run/walk can be at a variety of paces to garner the same average pace. But the ability to maintain that over a longer duration can be widely different based on the pace of the run and the pace of the walk.

    For instance, this is a 60/30 with an average of a 10:20 min/mile:

    Screen Shot 2017-08-09 at 3.13.30 PM.png

    This is a 8:47 min/mile run (or cover 0.113 miles when running) and a 16 min/mile walk (or cover 0.03 miles when walking)

    This is also a 60/30 with an average of 10:20 min/mile:

    Screen Shot 2017-08-09 at 3.15.38 PM.png

    This is a 8:01 min/mile run (or cover 0.124 miles when running) and a 24:30 min/mile walk (or cover 0.02 miles when walking)

    The difference is the 8:01 vs the 8:47 running portion. For a person of your estimated race equivalency profile, that's roughly 2 mile pace vs 10k pace. Big difference between trying to run each of those for 60/30 splits over the course of a HM or M. So, it might be helpful to look at the pace when running to help determine whether it's a sustainable pace. I've worked with a few people who were doing 60/30 or 30/30 intervals but with the running portion at race equivalency 800m or 1 mile. That's an intense workout no matter who you are. I've found when working with these people that slowing down the run pace of the run/walk has allowed them to perform better.

    A big thing to keep in mind is the Galloway LR should be at HM Tempo (or M Tempo dependent on the runDisney plan) + 2 minutes (at least how I understand his instructions). Which means someone with your race equivalency profile should be spending a significant portion of training at about a 11:34 min/mile pace or slower (M Tempo of 9:34 + 2 minutes). I believe he also recommends maintaining the same run/walk timing as you intend on using on race day. So if the timing stays the same, and the walking pace is consistent, then this means you have to slow down the running pace. Like this:

    Screen Shot 2017-08-09 at 3.23.12 PM.png

    Now instead of a 8:47 min/mile, now you'd be doing a 10:10 min/mile. Not surprisingly to me, this puts the run portion at my scheduled "long run" pace. This means the grand majority of this run will stay nearly pure aerobic (or very easy).

    This is just my best guess as to how to work through the math. Hope this helps!
     
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  14. dta87

    dta87 DIS Veteran

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    I have gotten the @DopeyBadger detailed analysis! :worship: This will take me a while to digest but yes, it definitely helps, thanks! I have read a few of your training posts on running slower to gain performance. Now I just have to convince my mind and body that training slower is going to get me where I want to be for the Dopey. My Marathon PR is from the 2015 Dopey and I would like to improve that to a 4:30 which should be possible as a stand-alone race based upon my other times (and your charts) but I am not sure when it is part of the Dopey. Thanks again.
     
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  15. DopeyBadger

    DopeyBadger Imagathoner

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    So I ran the math. Based on an n of just me:

    In 2015, my fitness estimated a 3:58:27 marathon. I ran a 4:27:23 Dopey marathon after attempting to PR all distances. A difference of 11%.
    In 2016, my fitness estimated a 3:27:58 marathon. I ran a 3:55:35 Dopey marathon after attempting to PR all distances. A difference of 12%.
    In 2017, my fitness estimated a 3:11:11 marathon. I ran a 3:20:52 Dopey marathon after attempting to PR the 5k and 10k, while the HM never occurred (and I did't run my own personal one). A difference of 5%.

    Using these values, and your goal of a 4:30 Dopey marathon. You should hope to be at a marathon fitness of 4:00-4:17 (based on 5-11% drop in pace because of other races). Your current estimated fitness of 4:10 under ideal conditions and ideally trained puts you right in the middle of this range. With a good and ideal cycle of training and improvement at a normal rate of 5% (this would put estimated marathon at 3:57), your goal of a 4:30 Dopey marathon is certainly achievable. Like my running motto says, "If you want it, PROVE IT, by doing what is necessary to get it."
     
  16. ZellyB

    ZellyB DIS Veteran

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    I'm not sure you have to run their intervals though to sort of use a pacer. I've lined up with pacers before who run continuously rather than run/walk like I do. You can just line up and then know that you'll be playing yo-yo with them throughout the race. The same would be true for a Galloway pacer who runs different intervals. True, you couldn't plan to be following them the entire time, but they can still serve as a good guide and help assure that you are staying on pace. Typically when we've done it, I try to start far enough behind so that I can keep them in sight during walk breaks but not necessarily pass them during run intervals and then I just try to keep the buffer between me and them consistent. I've only done it a couple of times with varying results :) but in theory it would work.
     
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  17. camaker

    camaker Anything worth doing is worth overdoing

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    Totally agree that you can improvise on the use of pacers both Galloway and full running. I regularly use them to gauge my relative position/time during races. A lot of people who use pacers like to use them as "pace groups" and having a set of like-minded/paced runners to cluster with for support and pace regulation. That usage is more what I was more referring to as being particularly difficult with Galloway pacing.
     
  18. ksoehrlein

    ksoehrlein Once (and Future?) CM

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    The Galloway Pacers have received their assignments. Look for us near the front of the corrals listed below. We plan to station ourselves behind the Beast Pacing group so we don't get in the way of the straight-up runners.

    Corral A
    1:45 (8:00/mile)
    4:00/0:30 ratio
    Kris and Linda

    Corral B
    2:00 (9:09/mile)
    2:00/0:30 ratio
    Jeff and Mindy

    Corral D
    2:15 (10:18/mile)
    1:30/0:30 ratio
    Scott and Jen

    Corral E
    2:30 (11:26/mile)
    1:00/0:30 ratio
    Kelley and Kimberly (that's me!)

    Corral F
    2:45 (12:35/mile)
    0:30/0:30 ratio
    Dan and Joey

    Corral H
    3:00 (13:43/mile)
    0:30/0:30 ratio
    Sean and Debbie

    Corral I
    3:00 (13:43/mile)
    0:30/0:30 ratio
    Rita and Stephanie

    Corral J
    3:15 (14:53/mile)
    0:15/0:30 ratio
    Judy and Lisa

    Corral J
    3:30 (16:00/mile)
    0:15/0:30 ratio
    Stacey and Laura

    Please note that there are two 3:00 groups (one in H and one in I) and there are two groups in Corral J (3:15 and 3:30). If you run/walk and are aiming for a certain time, please swing by Jeff Galloway's booth at the expo to let us know your goal. The pace team collects data at each expo, which is then used to determine our pace assignments for future races. Sub-three has been the goal for many run/walk/runners, so we were able to make the call that two groups would be beneficial. If another time ends up being widely requested as well, we may be able to offer multiple groups for future races.
     
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  19. courtneybeth

    courtneybeth Tale as old as time, song as old as rhyme...

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    What's the likelihood if I show up with my athlinks and ask solutions to move me up one corral that it'll be granted? I run 2:33 now (achieved time 5 days after POT submission deadline) and all I want to do is run with the 2:30 pacer. :(
     
  20. IamTrike

    IamTrike DIS Veteran

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    I am not sure. I wouldn't count on it, but I would definitely go to runner relations and try. I have heard of both successes and failures with people trying to move corrals. If the race has a results page I would print that too and bring it with.
     
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  21. courtneybeth

    courtneybeth Tale as old as time, song as old as rhyme...

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    That's the plan. Kill with kindness and hope for the best. Otherwise I'll be the unofficial 2:30 pacer in corral F ;)
     

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