Gay Ignorance = Gay Avoidance???

[tiggeroo13]

It's interesting that myself included that this forum gets a lot of non gay/lesbian lurkers and posters. I really don't mean to offend as that is not my intention with what I'm going to say but I've been doing some thinking (I know pretty scary). I was wondering after reading the thread about "out at work" if people who are not accepting of gays are just not aware. I am a non lesbian mormon from utah (which I could take a lot of bashing for) who thinks of gays the same way as I do my best friend. However, in thinking about people around me and listening to some of the posts on this board I've come up with some really ignorant questions that I wonder about. How do you meet other gay people and approach them, how do you know you're gay, when did you first realize that you are gay, do you think it should be such an issue politically to be gay, do you think all non gays are ignorant because they don't understand, etc. Now some of these questions are completely ignorant like the political question, but to non gay people who don't have a lot of contact with gay people are always curious. My gay friend in New York, who was the best hairdresser in the world, moved and I used to ask him all kinds of questions and it helped me pull off my gay avoidance mask. I love him like a brother! I guess I am just wondering if we look to see the other side a little more, in my case look to you guys, if we wont understand a little more and move this world towards more tolerance and peace. Okay, my soapbox is over and I'm sure I might come off as offensive but that's not what I wanted to do.

 

[SeattleRedBear]

Tigger -- This is not offensive at all...in fact, it's the exact opposite!! I can pull together a couple Gay 101 websites if you're really interested in the answers to some of your questions (I'm out the door now but can look into it tomorrow). Unlike other minorities, gay people can (and do) often 'pass' for straight for any number of reasons (various forms of fear being the primary ones) which I think is one of the reasons why people assume the only gay people they know are the stereotypical ones. Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason, but I try (as hard as I can as I am naturally a critical person) to "never" judge a person on appearance or manner, but instead on their actions and their words. Sexual and gender identity is such a complex thing that there is no one 'right' way to be gay (or to be straight for that matter). Gotta go now.

 

[nordkin]

I did not think you were offensive. Many people have the same questions and are afraid to ask. I think everyone is different when it comes to realizing you are gay. For me this was difficult, but with the love and support of a wonderful family I worked through it and have been happy with myself for a very long time. I think the biggest mistake anyone can make is to sterotype gay people. We are as diverse as any other group of people and we have the same challenges with friends and dating as anyone else. I look forward to the day that people start accepting everyone as they are and stop being judgmental.

 

[donald...really]

Your questions doesn't come off as offensive at all. The only way to learn about things you are not familiar with is to ask questions and to expose yourself to the unknown. It is proven that people who know openly gay people support gay rights more often than people who don't realize they know any gay people.

I don't know if you wanted answers to your questions, but I thought I would answer them anyway:

Q: How do you meet other gay people and approach them
A: I meet gay people the way I meet all people: I meet them at work, in the neighborhood, at parties, etc. There are many wayse to meet other gay people: there are gay dating services, gay bars, gay social groups, gay sporting groups, gay singing groups, gay theater groups, gay cruises, gay resorts, gay square dancing groups, gay rodeos, etc. etc. etc. I approach them by saying "Hi".

Q: how do you know you're gay
A: You know you're gay when you realize you are more attracted to people of the same sex than to people of the opposite sex. It is a feeling deep down inside. Many people ignore that feeling, or don't realize it is there until later in life. I imagine it is the same way people know when they are "straight"


Q: when did you first realize that you are gay
A: I realized I was attracted to boys when I was in the first grade. This was before I knew what "sex" or "gay" was. I remember seeing a picture of a boy about my age in a school book and feeling attracted to him.

Q: do you think it should be such an issue politically to be gay
A: I don't think it should be any kind of an issue. It is just how I was born.

Q: do you think all non gays are ignorant because they don't understand
A: I think some non gays do understand.

Thanks for asking.

 

[dkostel]

do you think it should be such an issue politically to be gay...

I don't think we're the ones who make it political, necessarily. Yes, we'd like equal rights, as would all women, as would all people of color. Basic human rights would be nice. But the recent fanning of the flames (pardon the bad pun) is just a right wing political rallying cry. If they can get the nut jobs (Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, etc.) on their side spewing hatred they can divert attention from the real nasty crap that they do all over the globe. I refuse to participate. Yes I'd like the right to marry, but I'd rather they stop killing people all over the globe in my name using my tax dollars to increase the profits of their friends corporations (KBR, Haliburton, etc.).

 

[RickinNYC]

Tiggeroo, your questions aren't offensive at all. In fact, I can't think of many questions that might be too offensive in any case, if they're asked in a true inquisitive manner and not with the intent to harm. I'm sure most if not all would agree with me.

As for folks lurking, I've no doubt there are dozens if not hundreds or more, that do so with this board in particular. I think I can speak for everyone in that I encourage them to do so! They'll see that we are just as normal as anyone else on the DIS, have the same hopes, dreams and wishes for ourselves, our loved ones and our families. There is truly only one major significant difference which I'm sure you're well aware of!

Lurking is good. Folks can see that we're not monsters, freaks, pedophiles, recruiters (that one always always always gives me a chuckle), or anything else.

Read to your hearts content folks! Just hope you post from time to time but even if you don't, no worries.

 

[swtnikki]

As a straight, 26 yr. old woman who's very happily taken, I can say that I'm pro-gay. Some of my best friends are gay, plus I was the first one that one of my friends ever outed to. I don't judge people just on that, I do it based on personality & kindness. Some people may find it weird posting here, but I don't. All of us here have one thing in common, & that's a love of Disney.

 

[AllyCatTapia]

not "offensive" but when you say "who thinks of gays the same way as I do my best friend".... One should never think of people as a whole group like that, identified by one trait, Why don't you just think of people as individuals?

Consider this statement "I think about Blacks like I think about my best friend". Really? How about you just let people be individuals and not rope them in alltogether based on one small part of their overall person. IE- I am not a disabled person- I am a PERSON who is disabled...I am not a GAY person, I am a person who is gay...



(this is not directed at the original poster, but EVERYONE)

-Ally, a person who is also minorty, straight, buddhist republican

 

[Tony-NJ]

recruiters (that one always always always gives me a chuckle),

 

[pezpam]

Lurking is good. Folks can see that we're not monsters, freaks, pedophiles, recruiters (that one always always always gives me a chuckle), or anything else.

This kind of casual exposure is great. I've known so many people who were brought up to believe awful things about *Others* and who realized that those things were untrue once they began to meet and get to know people.

I am bummed about the recruiting program. I was gonna sign up just so my cousin could get the new toaster.... (Sorry, old joke....)

 

[lisaviolet]

I doubt I can remember all your questions but here I go:

1) I think that one of the biggest misconceptions is that gays are all that different. There are agressive gays, shy gays, sweet gays, backstabbing gays, conservative gays etc. I am laughing right now thinking of all the combinations. You know what I am trying to say. Just like all people there are thousands of personalities, ways of thinking, ways of being. We are just people. There might be some like ways of being/thinking but our differences, just like the rest of the world, outweigh those.

2) When did I know?

I didn't. I was older....24. I fell in love/lust exactly like in Brokeback Mountain. Well not in a tent but you know what I mean!!!!! It was very innoncent in the gist of I had no idea before hand. It was beautiful in its innocence. Some people know very early and know that they are sexually attracted to the same sex way before puberty. And that is great as well. Many...many different stories.

3) How do you find other gays/people to date?

Do you remember what I said about "shy gays"... well I have never been, unfortunately, the personality to go after others sexually. So, male or female, it just happened from the other end. My partner of twelve years had no idea I was gay or vice versa. I truly believe sometimes you are just "drawn". But others have many stories about going to places where there might be a lot of gays. I know there are a lot of lesbians who are athletes. Obviously, not all lesbians but a high percentage.

4) Politics

Well, I have a lot of thoughts on this subject.

First, I believe it's time to say what is great about being gay instead of always focusing on the negative (which there is of course). I mean really it is a wonderful life in many ways. No, I am not recruiting. I am talking about our countries...obviously the threat of death in some countries changes "the great life".

For example, I am white (well pink actually)...my partner is black. No one cares cause there is the bigger issue for some of them!!!
Other pluses of being gay......There is usually no pressure about marriage, children etc. all the pressures of the other side.
You can more easily decide, in my opinion, on how your life will be.
Sometimes, not always, the falling in love/attraction is so natural in the beginning because you don't even think about it.
Okay, I'll say it. Sex. I would think for most gays.....well everyone is fulfilled. We hear a lot from female straight friends about being frustrated. Not the same for most gays.

So being gay is wonderful in many ways.

5) More politics

Like every "group thinking" in the world..... IMO there can be a lot of crap. Like all gays should think alike. Why should we? People don't. And we are people. Makes no sense to me.

I remember not going to the "**** March" (interesting I wrote the "d" word for lesbian and it got bleeped....weird).... this one year (and many years). We went to my partner's mother's house instead. We got from a gay friend. "But why? This is your day", she says very aggressively.

No, every single day is my day.

6) Do I think that non-gays can't understand?

Sometimes yes...sometimes no. I would never have believed how I felt at first. So I can put myself in other's positions. There is a new condo here in Toronto geared/marketed for gays. My father asked me what we thought of it. (it's just down the street from me). I said, "Why would I want to live in a place where only (mostly) gays live? Does Jean (my partner) want to live where only blacks are? No we are not interested but to each their own". It's a free world.

Then my father said, "Oh I'm glad you said it. I mean gays want equal rights.....you can't have it both ways....have you heard about the push for a gay retirement home?"

Well it was an a-ha moment. My dad just hasn't thought about the "why?". We shouldn't need it. He hadn't really given a thought to it. Just judged it with his friends I am thinking. But he hadn't thought about the stories of partners not allowed to be together in the same room in old age (ie. just married/opposite sex in rooms together). He didn't think that his age group and older might be the most homophobic and that many gays going into assisted homes might not have their entire life respected and celebrated in the same way. I could tell that he, and I'm guessing his "well they can't have it both ways" friends, just hadn't thought about the reasons for wanting the retirement home. I let him know..it made me think and hopefully for him too. So sometimes there are reasons for politics.

7) The gay community

pluses and minuses. Pluses....many. I think, especially when coming to the understanding that they are gay, people need a sense of belonging and being understood. Heck, we all need that.

And of course we all wouldn't be so "free" if all the people wouldn't have spent their time/sometimes entire adult lives fighting and arguing for certain rights. And having courage to just live their lives.

But there are negatives as there are in all "groups" and "labels". I have just come to the conclusion after years of thinking that I'm gay that I'm probably bisexual or who knows. I never had a problem being gay and this realization has been hard for me. Very intereresting but unnerving. Sometimes there is no room for individual lives. The gay community sometimes hates people coming out and saying anything that denotes "choice" at all. Ie. Hey don't tell straight people there is any choice!! I think that this crap has a lot to do with self shame. Some of the most homophobic people are gay.

And I truly believe that sexuality is not static. This is an uncomfortable thought for most. I believe that some people are born gay.....100% and that some people are born straight....100% and there are many many people in between that can change and not be gay or straight. And I believe that some people's sexuality who are in between might sometimes be due to life cirmcumstances. Not all obvioulsly....but some. But you won't hear that a lot because many gays and straights want things to be black and white. But I personally think some people for sure are born gay. For sure. That's just the way it is. But I don't think it is that way for every single person.

Thank God for us/gays. A variety in life in wonderful. You only have to see a gay parade....especially in Toronto ....we are the most multicultural city in the world...so when you see all the races/cultures in the parade you start to realize how natural it is....

So thank you for all your questions tiggeroo13 because I really enjoyed writing that!!! I went way beyond your questions....sorry. What a novel!

 

[DVCajun]

not "offensive" but when you say "who thinks of gays the same way as I do my best friend".... One should never think of people as a whole group like that, identified by one trait, Why don't you just think of people as individuals?

Consider this statement "I think about Blacks like I think about my best friend". Really? How about you just let people be individuals and not rope them in alltogether based on one small part of their overall person. IE- I am not a disabled person- I am a PERSON who is disabled...I am not a GAY person, I am a person who is gay...



(this is not directed at the original poster, but EVERYONE)

-Ally, a person who is also minorty, straight, buddhist republican

I think the OP made the statement about "gay people" because this is the "gay board" and she was asking a question about "gay issues." I really don't think it was meant the way you took it, as in "it's so cool that 'you people' use forks when you eat too, I mean, I really like you guys because you're so much like real people!" She was possibly trying to express her lack of prejudice-- the unfortunate thing is that typically when someone has to express a lack of prejudice it means the exact opposite. (I do not think this is the case for the OP, however)

FWIW-- I don't find it odd that many straights visit this forum. My brother is gay and I'm interested in gay issues. I've always been puzzled by homophobia... after all, how often do we meet people who are our moral twins? But for some reason this particular issue can cause such a firestorm! Very odd. But that's another topic for another day.

 

[Empare]

=And I truly believe that sexuality is not static. This is an uncomfortable thought for most. I believe that some people are born gay.....100% and that some people are born straight....100% and there are many many people in between that can change and not be gay or straight. And I believe that some people's sexuality who are in between might sometimes be due to life cirmcumstances. Not all obvioulsly....but some. But you won't hear that a lot because many gays and straights want things to be black and white. But I personally think some people for sure are born gay. That's just the way it is. But I don't think it is that way for every single person.

Thanks for this entry especially! I feel like I am stuck between communties sometimes. A lot of straight people don't like me because I am bi. They think I am "confused" or "greedy" A lot of gay people don't like for the same reason. It's very frustrating and intimidating for me. I am who I am. I am attracted to all types of people and I am happy for this but it is very difficult to find people who understand where I come from. Raleigh NC is not the most understanding of cities.

 

[DVCajun]

. Raleigh NC is not the most understanding of cities.

Raleigh is my city!!

 

[tiggeroo13]

Thank you DVCajun. That is exactly what I meant. I could have been more clear, but in my haste...

Thanks, cuz I really didn't mean to lump gays into a "gay" classification and didn not meant to de-individualize anyone.

SeattleRedBear-it would be good to see those sites.

To everyone, thanks for your posts. I really appreciate seeing the different views everyone has on these questions.

Thanks again everyone for your posts.

 

[Empare]

Raleigh is my city!!

Really? I'm sorry. he he

 

[DVCajun]

Really? I'm sorry. he he

Don't be. We have our reasons for feeling prejudice-- we're a mixed race family-- and we've not had the first negative experience. I think it's a great town.

 

[themudd4]

Thanks for this entry especially! I feel like I am stuck between communties sometimes. A lot of straight people don't like me because I am bi. They think I am "confused" or "greedy" A lot of gay people don't like for the same reason. It's very frustrating and intimidating for me. I am who I am. I am attracted to all types of people and I am happy for this but it is very difficult to find people who understand where I come from. Raleigh NC is not the most understanding of cities.

I know this is going to sound rude to someone...so in advance...SORRY!

Who cares what anyone else thinks! If your gay, be happy...if your str8, be happy...and if your bi, be happy. The only one that needs to worry about your life and how you live it is you!
I am sure that some "STUPID" person has made you feel like your not thinking right...well if they need to "judge" you then they are the one with the problem!

Just for the record, I am a Happily married 29+4 year young woman. That doesn't make me gay, str8, or bi...it makes me...ME!

 

[SeattleRedBear]

SeattleRedBear-it would be good to see those sites.

Hey Tigger -- Here's a short list of websites that might answer some of the questions you posed earlier. Hope anyone who is interested will contribute. I debated about whether to PM these to you or post to the group but since we know there are lurkers that might find this of interest as well, decided to post. If Rick or Viki think this is off-topic for the forum, I'll be happy to PM these to you.

Parents, Family & Friends of Lesbians & Gays: http://www.pflag.org
FAQ: http://www.pflag.org/index.php?id=83
Coming out stories: http://www.pflag.org/index.php?id=90

About Gay Life: http://http://gaylife.about.com/
Coming Out: http://gaylife.about.com/od/comingout/
Gay Love & Sex Advice: http://gaylife.about.com/od/gaysexadvice/
This website has a ton of content and if you're willing to go exploring you can probably find out more than you ever wanted to know.

American Psychology Association 'Answers to Your Questions about Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality': http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html

Young Gay America: http://www.younggayamerica.com/index1.shtml
Gives me hope for the future!

Human Rights Campaign Fund: http://www.hrc.org
Gay & Lesbian Political Action Committee

 

[Kaelyn]

you know what is frustrating for me? the same things as everyone else: being stereotyped. i am a politically conservative, bible thumping, white bread, anti-feminist, straight female who is married with a baby son. my best friend is a gay man. i have very strong opinions about the non-biology of the gay life and about the sinful nature of homosexual sex (or any sex outside of a marriage covenant). i have even stronger opinions about the gay political movement and the quest for "super-rights." but my best friend, as all people, is an adult and can make the choice for himself who he sleeps with. it is not my place to tell him what to do. he knows how i feel about it, because if anyone asks me my opinions i will tell them without fear or shame, but i will not tell someone else how to live their life (with the exception of my husband ~ i think i can tell him who to sleep with and who not to!!) and yet i am constantly accused of being homophobic because i am a republican or of being judgemental because i am a christian. and you know what? i think that more conservative christians feel the way that i do than are given credit. it is just that no one listens to anyone anymore because everyone thinks that they already know what someone will say.

just had to vent a little here... sorry!!!