Got this email from David's. Can you help me navigate?

[cm8]

I asked about the 30% and I specifically said that with the contract I am currently under, that there is no force majeure clause and therefore I am owed the 30% regardless, with the original renter. Seems they do not agree and plan on keeping it, should the resorts close again. Here is the response:

In the event that the Resorts were to be closed August 17, 2020 and accommodations would not be available to our guests, the contract would become invalid and we would be unable to send the final 30% of funds. Disney Vacation Club would also return all of these points to you. This would be the case whether we could find a new Renter or not.
In this event, we are certainly willing to attempt to re-rent the returned points and at that time if we are successful, we will be able to pay you the Owner the final 30%.
We understand how frustrating this is and we have nothing but empathy and compassion for all Guests and Owners that have been impacted by the COVID19 closures.
As long as the resort remains open and accommodations are available, you will receive this 30%. Plus an additional 2 Dollars per point if we find a new family to take over this reservation.

Not surprised at all. If the original agreement stands, then you should receive the 30% as promised...

 

[connorlevismom]

Not surprised at all. If the original agreement stands, then you should receive the 30% as promised...

That's kind of what I told them. I stated that the original contract says I will get paid the 30% no matter what. They pretty much told me 'to bad' and moved on with their day.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

That's kind of what I told them. I stated that the original contract says I will get paid the 30% no matter what. They pretty much told me 'to bad' and moved on with their day.

This is precisely the reason many owners have lost trust in this company. They are now giving some assurances about the 30% if points are re-rented, but since they arguably didn't honor the original contract terms, many are skeptical that promises made for re-rented points will be kept.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

So if resorts are closed contract becomes invalid ?? How does that work ? Who determines that?? Omg the more I hear from them ugh!!!

 

[WDWEPCOT]

I’m in the process of re renting my points and lets just say things have been hostile as in so done with their crap and I don’t trust them and I’ve been very crystal clear to them and they have ignored that so I’m ignoring them - they sent me a request which I declined and you would have thought I killed a puppy omg it went up to a manager and we went at each other so it wasn’t a request ?? Then two weeks later they sent me the same request AGAIN !! Declined !! We are taking a break right now !!

 

[fancymouse]

That's kind of what I told them. I stated that the original contract says I will get paid the 30% no matter what. They pretty much told me 'to bad' and moved on with their day.

But now you’ve come full circle on the “what if” the resorts close again aspect. Since you aren’t signing a new contract you are stuck with the vagueness of the old contract and you can read loads of arguments on either side in the other thread. It’s increadibly unclear legally where the money goes. However, from what they have promised you (and you have written proof in emails) you’ll get the remainder regardless if the resorts are *open*. I think you’ve covered all scenarios in your correspondence with them and, again, unless they just go out of business (and even then you might still have options), it seems you would be able to take legal action if they didn’t pay you.

 

[connorlevismom]

I’m in the process of re renting my points and lets just say things have been hostile as in so done with their crap and I don’t trust them and I’ve been very crystal clear to them and they have ignored that so I’m ignoring them - they sent me a request which I declined and you would have thought I killed a puppy omg it went up to a manager and we went at each other so it wasn’t a request ?? Then two weeks later they sent me the same request AGAIN !! Declined !! We are taking a break right now !!

Can you please elaborate on this? What happened and what did they ask you to do when re-renting your points? I was told I only needed to change the names, is this not that case? Are they asking you to do something other than that?

 

[connorlevismom]

But now you’ve come full circle on the “what if” the resorts close again aspect. Since you aren’t signing a new contract you are stuck with the vagueness of the old contract and you can read loads of arguments on either side in the other thread. It’s increadibly unclear legally where the money goes. However, from what they have promised you (and you have written proof in emails) you’ll get the remainder regardless if the resorts are *open*. I think you’ve covered all scenarios in your correspondence with them and, again, unless they just go out of business (and even then you might still have options), it seems you would be able to take legal action if they didn’t pay you.

They have told me that if the resorts close and I have the old or the new renters they will NOT be giving me the 30%. I will only get it if the resort it open at check-in. That is not what the contract states and they are just making the decision that they are not going to honor the contract.

 

[fancymouse]

So if resorts are closed contract becomes invalid ?? How does that work ? Who determines that?? Omg the more I hear from them ugh!!!

If you agreed to re-renting it sounds like it depends on if this was a time period when the resorts were closed or if you are re-renting for a renter who cannot come even though the resorts are open. In the first case (resorts closed) I think your 30% is dependent on them being able to find a new renter. If the resorts are open you get the 30% regardless of whether they can find a new renter. The response you are referring to from David’s basically stated that if the resorts were forced to close again that you wouldn’t get the 30% because the original contract becomes invalid. This would be the case whether you chose to re-rent or not as it’s still the old contact the reservation is under and this was their policy. They have since changed the new contracts to clarify what happens when the resorts are closed.

 

[fancymouse]

They have told me that if the resorts close and I have the old or the new renters they will NOT be giving me the 30%. I will only get it if the resort it open at check-in. That is not what the contract states and they are just making the decision that they are not going to honor the contract.

Again- not denying that you can be upset, but this is exactly what the other thread is about and there are valid *legal* arguments for each side (during closure). Their contract was incredibly vague and left a huge hole for this situation. Therefore they feel that they are not legally required to pay you. I would love to see if anyone was able to legally hold them responsible, but I haven’t seen anyone say they were. They are keeping to 30% to help provide vouchers to renters.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Not surprised at all. If the original agreement stands, then you should receive the 30% as promised...

This only goes to show that the contract is worth nothing more than the paper it’s written on.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Again- not denying that you can be upset, but this is exactly what the other thread is about and there are valid *legal* arguments for each side (during closure). Their contract was incredibly vague and left a huge hole for this situation. Therefore they feel that they are not legally required to pay you. I would love to see if anyone was able to legally hold them responsible, but I haven’t seen anyone say they were. They are keeping to 30% to help provide vouchers to renters.

If David’s is not honoring a contract or you as an owner is not honoring a contract what can the other party do? Take you to small claims court?

That’s not gonna happen for such a small amount and there are too many variables so either party risk loosing even more money.

Only course of action is that either party won’t do business with the other part again.

 

[Sandisw]

Again- not denying that you can be upset, but this is exactly what the other thread is about and there are valid *legal* arguments for each side (during closure). Their contract was incredibly vague and left a huge hole for this situation. Therefore they feel that they are not legally required to pay you. I would love to see if anyone was able to legally hold them responsible, but I haven’t seen anyone say they were. They are keeping to 30% to help provide vouchers to renters.

Which is why it is frustrating because they simply are bending over backwards it seems for the renters but when it comes to owners, not so much. Like I said, if a resort is closed and someone doesn’t get the 30%, I would not refund the money or re rent points.

 

[connorlevismom]

Which is why it is frustrating because they simply are bending over backwards it seems for the renters but when it comes to owners, not so much. Like I said, if a resort is closed and someone doesn’t get the 30%, I would not refund the money or re rent points.

Which is really odd because with out the owners, they would have no business.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Which is why it is frustrating because they simply are bending over backwards it seems for the renters but when it comes to owners, not so much. Like I said, if a resort is closed and someone doesn’t get the 30%, I would not refund the money or re rent points.

Dont get me wrong this is a terrible situation for everyone.

Had I used David’s as an owner and after reading all of this I would had cut my losses and would “forego” the 30% I would have been owed for a checkin during the closure. HOWEVER if I had another upcoming reservation and that reservation used bankable points or had points I could get good use of I would have cancel that reservation and returned the money but deducted the 30% that David’s owed me for my first reservation.

if David’s is not honoring a contract why on earth should I?

When I come to think about it I might have given David’s the option to pay me the missing 30% NOW plus the 30% for the upcoming reservation. If the didn’t I’d cancel the reservation and refund the money except for the 30%.

As an owner you hold all the cards NOT David’s.

if an owner cancels then David’s will get hell from renters.

no way they are taking me to court for violating a contract due to David’s violating a contract.

 

[Yinn]

They have told me that if the resorts close and I have the old or the new renters they will NOT be giving me the 30%. I will only get it if the resort it open at check-in. That is not what the contract states and they are just making the decision that they are not going to honor the contract.

I feel like this is your aha moment.

Welcome to dark side....err..or are they the dark side?

 

[fancymouse]

If David’s is not honoring a contract or you as an owner is not honoring a contract what can the other party do? Take you to small claims court?

That’s not gonna happen for such a small amount and there are too many variables so either party risk loosing even more money.

Only course of action is that either party won’t do business with the other part again.

There were a lot of lawyers discussing it in the other thread and whether or not owners want to admit it, the old contract does not say you get full payment no mater what. The lawyers were picking apart the contract and pointed out all these unclear circumstances. It's actually incredible how irresponsible David's was to not account for this situation in their contract. Setting aside a pandemic there could have been a hurricane or fire that could have caused similar issues. They had to have known and just assumed it would never be ALL resorts at one time and they'd cross that bridge when they came to it.

Based on the old contract I don't think any owner would be able to legally collect anything. Yes, it is a small amount, so maybe not worth the hassle, but also complicated by the fact David's is a Canadian company and many renters are not Canadian. David's also could not legally force owners to return the money (even thought they asked and some did) so their contract didn't even cover themself. That's why I think no one took any actual legal action. Some renters did file chargebacks and it sounds like they are getting them approved. Some report they did have to provide documentation of the contract and voucher terms, so I am sure CC companies are looking at it from a legal aspect as well. Basically the old contract was crap

 

[Sandisw]

There were a lot of lawyers discussing it in the other thread and whether or not owners want to admit it, the old contract does not say you get full payment no mater what. The lawyers were picking apart the contract and pointed out all these unclear circumstances. It's actually incredible how irresponsible David's was to not account for this situation in their contract. Setting aside a pandemic there could have been a hurricane or fire that could have caused similar issues. They had to have known and just assumed it would never be ALL resorts at one time and they'd cross that bridge when they came to it.

Based on the old contract I don't think any owner would be able to legally collect anything. Yes, it is a small amount, so maybe not worth the hassle, but also complicated by the fact David's is a Canadian company and many renters are not Canadian. David's also could not legally force owners to return the money (even thought they asked and some did) so their contract didn't even cover themself. That's why I think no one took any actual legal action. Some renters did file chargebacks and it sounds like they are getting them approved. Some report they did have to provide documentation of the contract and voucher terms, so I am sure CC companies are looking at it from a legal aspect as well. Basically the old contract was crap

However, the old contract also didn’t say that if a resort is closed an owner has to refund money or rent points again either.

Remember, this broker has said to owners that a resort closure by Disney makes contract void and owners are on hook to re-rent or refund But told renters that Disney’s actions are not an action of the owner that entitles them for a refund.

Now I do agree that if the Resort is closed then maybe the 30% could be in question...but not the rest.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

This only goes to show that the contract is worth nothing more than the paper it’s written on.

Poor analogy when TP is going for $90 a roll on Amazon, but you get the sentiment.

 

[cvjw]

When David’s didn’t want to pay me the final 30% before the resorts closed for the first time, I realized that there was nothing I could realistically do about it. With David in Canada, how do you make them follow thru on their contract and actually make them pay? It isn’t like I am flying to canada to take them to small claims court. After that realization, I cut all ties with David’s.