Help - Was Scammed!

[sethschroeder]

Always a risk but with personal rentals you want to vet the person is real, get the reservation email from the member, add it to your MDE, and then go through with payment.

Also contact them via actual email because emails are also another track mechanism to possibly see how far back that email exists.

Finally you can see if they own DVC as well at least for WDW pretty easily if you have their name and it's under their name.

Sucks that scammers exist. Partly why I dislike that Facebook went away from school email verified accounts only a long time ago. While you had creeps it was harder because emails mapped back to actual school accounts which could be tracked easier.

 

[austinalexander]

Unless you did paypal f&f, which it sounds like you might have..., then it shouldnt be a big problem to file a complaint with paypal to get the money back.

Lesson here is never use paypal f&f.

Renting DVC points using G&S is literally throwing your money away. They explicitly state that timeshare rentals are not covered, so it makes no sense to pay extra for G&S when you aren’t protected anyways.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

This is not exactly true. Canceling more than 31 days out eliminates holding, but there are banking windows, borrowing, etc. that could be involved.

Just don’t want renters to think that an owner can book and cancel with no risks at all and that renting terms are up to each owner and may not be flexible.

Fair,I guess what I meant was, if you’re thinking about renting, there is no risk to the owner of making a temporary reservation, at that very moment, to show you they have the points, provided they’re outside of 31 days..

 

[Sandisw]

Fair,I guess what I meant was, if you’re thinking about renting, there is no risk to the owner of making a temporary reservation, at that very moment, to show you they have the points, provided they’re outside of 31 days..

Got it but it is still not as simple as that. If the person wants a trip for later on and it required borrowing or banking of points first, there would be a risk to the owner to create a temporary reservation to prove they have the points prior to anyone paying something.


No matter what, a renter will always be at risk because the reservation belongs to the owner up until check in.

Good contracts and trust, or using a broker can limit the risks.

 

[mgarbowski]

Despite the multiple confident assertions that Paypal forbids timeshare rental transactions, I can find no language covering it. There used to be, but I believe it is gone. Everyone should do their own research and checking and such. I'm not giving advice. But I see no language that addresses it. These seem to be the most likely locations:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#top
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#restricted-activities
It's possible I missed something. If any of the people who claimed that timeshare transactions are forbidden by Paypal have a reference, I would like to see it. Thanks.

 

[c0reyann]

Always a risk but with personal rentals you want to vet the person is real, get the reservation email from the member, add it to your MDE, and then go through with payment.

Also contact them via actual email because emails are also another track mechanism to possibly see how far back that email exists.

Finally you can see if they own DVC as well at least for WDW pretty easily if you have their name and it's under their name.

Sucks that scammers exist. Partly why I dislike that Facebook went away from school email verified accounts only a long time ago. While you had creeps it was harder because emails mapped back to actual school accounts which could be tracked easier.

He had references - I checked with 5. One of his references was the owner of a DVC Rental Group so his references all seemed to be legit. How I found out was because one of his references I reached out to had her second stay with him fall apart and she reached out to me to let me know to start to cover myself and get a refund/file a dispute.

After doing a lot of researched we've found he's also stolen 1.65 million from 'friends' of his in the past year and has two pending civil cases and 4 pending felony fraud cases.

The officer handling my case called yesterday and now I know why he said he believed me and said that his local police were also involved.

Why he was dumb enough to do this all on his phone that's registered to him and through his FB account that is not a fake I won't know but at least he's made it easier for the case against him.

We were able to secure a reservation with a reputable 3rd party broker last night! So while I may not have a refund at least now we do have a secure reservation.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Despite the multiple confident assertions that Paypal forbids timeshare rental transactions, I can find no language covering it. There used to be, but I believe it is gone. Everyone should do their own research and checking and such. I'm not giving advice. But I see no language that addresses it. These seem to be the most likely locations:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#top
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#restricted-activities
It's possible I missed something. If any of the people who claimed that timeshare transactions are forbidden by Paypal have a reference, I would like to see it. Thanks.

I agree, meanwhile paypal specifically **warns** you **not** to use “friends and family” when paying for goods and services. If you do that, then you definitely are violationg paypal’s TOS.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Despite the multiple confident assertions that Paypal forbids timeshare rental transactions, I can find no language covering it. There used to be, but I believe it is gone. Everyone should do their own research and checking and such. I'm not giving advice. But I see no language that addresses it. These seem to be the most likely locations:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#top
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#restricted-activities
It's possible I missed something. If any of the people who claimed that timeshare transactions are forbidden by Paypal have a reference, I would like to see it. Thanks.

Don’t get me wrong, but does it matter if PayPal covers it or not?

If you paid using a credit card then all you need to do is file for a chargeback and you will them back if you got scammed.

 

[mgarbowski]

Don’t get me wrong, but does it matter if PayPal covers it or not?

If you paid using a credit card then all you need to do is file for a chargeback and you will them back if you got scammed.

You're right it is a completely different issue. I also claim no expertise in credit card policies for scams except that I realize they sometimes can be a way to resolve your issue.

 

[Sandisw]

Don’t get me wrong, but does it matter if PayPal covers it or not?

If you paid using a credit card then all you need to do is file for a chargeback and you will them back if you got scammed.

Not everyone pays via credit card though. When I used PayPal years ago for a rental, they paid goods and services, but from the bank account as I did not take CC.

So, it is possible that some of the renters didn’t use one.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Don’t get me wrong, but does it matter if PayPal covers it or not?

If you paid using a credit card then all you need to do is file for a chargeback and you will them back if you got scammed.

No, not necessarily, because the credit card paid paypal, not the end user. Your credit card transaction was with paypal. As such your credit card dispute could very well be declined if the credit card company determines that *paypal* did not breach it’s agreement with you. Also, you’ll still be on the hook for the money to paypal, which at the very least could mean you’ll never be able to use paypal again until you pay.

 

[sethschroeder]

He had references - I checked with 5. One of his references was the owner of a DVC Rental Group so his references all seemed to be legit. How I found out was because one of his references I reached out to had her second stay with him fall apart and she reached out to me to let me know to start to cover myself and get a refund/file a dispute.

After doing a lot of researched we've found he's also stolen 1.65 million from 'friends' of his in the past year and has two pending civil cases and 4 pending felony fraud cases.

The officer handling my case called yesterday and now I know why he said he believed me and said that his local police were also involved.

Why he was dumb enough to do this all on his phone that's registered to him and through his FB account that is not a fake I won't know but at least he's made it easier for the case against him.

We were able to secure a reservation with a reputable 3rd party broker last night! So while I may not have a refund at least now we do have a secure reservation.

You did everything right it sounds like. Unfortunately the risk hit you this time. I supposed this points to why you do business with someone who rarely rents possibly because someone who is scamming isn't going to just rent out 100-300 points and nothing else ever.

The "good" part is by doing research and such you know who the person is so you are able to bring legal action even if you won't get money back.

 

[c0reyann]

Not everyone pays via credit card though. When I used PayPal years ago for a rental, they paid goods and services, but from the bank account as I did not take CC.

So, it is possible that some of the renters didn’t use one.

I paid via Apple Cash, some paid with Paypal and others with Google Pay. Personally I used my debit card but I know at least one person did use her bank account directly which doesn't offer the same protections sadly. She's the one with a special needs child who scraped the money together so she's the one I feel most sad for.

 

[starry_solo]

Renting DVC points using G&S is literally throwing your money away. They explicitly state that timeshare rentals are not covered, so it makes no sense to pay extra for G&S when you aren’t protected anyways.

It is worth it if you pay using a credit card. You get charged a cash advance fee if you use your credit card to pay as friends & family (new PayPal rules, took effect sometime last year).

 

[Jillpie]

omg I think I know exactly who you're talking about who scammed you. He was getting so annoying trying to sell his huge amounts of rooms and reservations, it sounded SO scammy after a while! I'm off to read this thread, just started, this should be very interesting to see if you got resolution.

 

[WxKristin]

This explains so much. I have a rental thread in Facebook right now and in the last day I've received multiple PM's from people asking how they can know it's not a scam.

I've had to walk people through MDE and how to load a reservation, so I know a lot of people in these groups are way less familiar with the process. They were likely told by a friend they could "rent points" and get a Disney Hotel for a half the cost. There are > 20K people in some of those groups.

I rented once before purchasing and the owner was great, but I was still super uncomfortable with the whole process. One of the biggest reasons I own now instead of trying to rent.

 

[zavandor]

Learned something new, timeshares are NOT covered by paypal.

Thanks for everyone who pointed this out.

To clarify: you can use Paypal for timeshare transactions, but those are not covered by Paypal buyer protection policy. So it can be used as a way of sending money easily, but one is not protected in case anything goes wrong.

 

[stwaldman]

No, not necessarily, because the credit card paid paypal, not the end user. Your credit card transaction was with paypal. As such your credit card dispute could very well be declined if the credit card company determines that *paypal* did not breach it’s agreement with you. Also, you’ll still be on the hook for the money to paypal, which at the very least could mean you’ll never be able to use paypal again until you pay.

I actually had this once on a very small scale. I had my CC company dispute a PayPal transaction, and what ended up happening was my CC got credited back but PayPal put my account "in the hole" for the same amount. So your PayPal will go negative for whatever you dispute through the CC company. Mine was so small ot wasn't worth the hassle of a double dispute since I needed my PayPal for other transactions, but on something significant that wouldn't fly so easily.

 

[Shellyred8]

OP - If you have seen him on this board, could you report him to the moderators? It might be good for the moderators to know who he is so they can keep an eye on him.
Also, I'm so sorry you had to go through this. We were victims of a DVC scam several years ago when we were still new, so I know the dollar loss can sting a bit.

 

[c0reyann]

OP - If you have seen him on this board, could you report him to the moderators? It might be good for the moderators to know who he is so they can keep an eye on him.
Also, I'm so sorry you had to go through this. We were victims of a DVC scam several years ago when we were still new, so I know the dollar loss can sting a bit.

I haven't been looking but if the mods want to know to keep an eye out I am happy to DM them his name.

He has been trying to join other groups he wasn't banned from so it is possible he will land here. I think he would have got away with it had some of the first people to figure it out not been able to group together on Facebook.

We're up to 20 now and 2 more families who have upcoming stays with him that are trusting him.

He is doubling down that we all have to wait to do anything until we arrive to no rooms. Which someone has already done. It's almost comical.