It Looks Like The 30-Day+ Back-to-Back Reservation Policy Changed

[StormyCA]

We know someone who owns a cattle ranch cum campground. They do 'tie' the rig type and license plate to the reservation to avoid 'overstayers', although they're small enough that they just drive through and do a manual check. As someone mentioned above it'd be easy enough for Disney IT to program an alert for contiguous 30 day reservations based on rig license plates.

The 28 day 'stay-away' period is a long one! I've seen 48 hrs to a week but never 4 weeks. But for those who can afford it, at least they didn't put a yearly cap on it like a lot of places (Natl Parks especially) do. At least, I don't THINK there's a yearly cap on staying at the Fort. Not that that would ever be anything I'd have to worry about. lol, I just wish it were!

I think it will 'free up' space and make reservations easier to get, even if not by a huge amount. If there are only 5 'over-30-dayers' during the Snowbird period that must now 'move on', that could translate to a one week stay for 20 other parties or two week stays for 10 other parties. I know Disney is thinking about 'spending per site', but I'm just thinking about availability for others to enjoy. We're thinking our next stay (9 or 11 nights sometime in Jan-Mar 2024) may be within the 'snowbird' period and frankly I was concerned about availability. Maybe now I don't need to be quite so worried, assuming that WDW is going to enforce this rule.

Honestly, if I had the money this would just make me shrug. 30 days at FtW, down to the Keys for 30 days, then back to FtW. No biggie.

 

[StormyCA]

You are correct, try booking Zion, Arches, Teton or Yellowstone campgrounds, almost impossible right now.

Ain't that the truth!!! We've been going to Yellowstone for decades and have never had a problem getting in at Fishing Bridge then moving to 1st come/1st served at Mammoth Hot Springs CG. Now they've all gone reservation and I'm sweating bullets! We got our 2022 Fishing Bridge reservations but now have to wait for the window to open for Mammoth early next year.

And forget Yosemite! We haven't stayed there in years because the 'in season' reservations are impossible to get. Not to mention the overcrowding. If I'm going to be in an over-crowded place, standing in lines to move forward, it's going to have rides in it!!!

 

[nomorethan8]

Expand the Fort! Solves many problems. The RV's bought today will be around for years. Regardless of where sales will be tomorrow. You can kick the snowbirds out. Or make room for them.

I don't buy the fact that "Imagineers" can't figure out a way to have those people open their pocket books and fanny packs and have them separate them from the coin. They are already spending 130 a night min, to stay there as it is. So these Disney Snowbirds are willing to spend already. spending 40 bucks a person at Trails End every other day is not what they do. But there are other ways to do it, short of putting a pharmacy in the campground.

Expand the Fort.

PS - I WISH Disney had moved on my idea of a 2nd campground across Vista Boulevard from the Fort called Camp Davy Crockett.

I would love to drive my golf cart to Epcot from that location. Just saying.

 

[StormyCA]

Maybe they could build one of those places where RV owners buy the lot outright or (as I've suggested before) a DVC RV resort, but the points price 'reasonable' enough for people who want may want to stay a month or two.

 

[mickeyfan0805]

Maybe they could build one of those places where RV owners buy the lot outright or (as I've suggested before) a DVC RV resort, but the points price 'reasonable' enough for people who want may want to stay a month or two.

I've seen this concept before (perhaps it was you or someone else), and as a TT owner who also owns DVC, I'd love it. But, I don't ever see it happening. Too many reasons - from realistic demand for campgrounds among the DVC audience to relative point cost - that a campground simply wouldn't fit into the larger DVC structure.

 

[nomorethan8]

that a campground simply wouldn't fit into the larger DVC structure.

I agree, it wouldn't fit into the DVC structure.

But a timeshare point system, like DVC's, with other "iconic" campgrounds around the country would work. open up across the street. Might solve their snowbird issue they seem to dislike.

 

[StormyCA]

I've seen this concept before (perhaps it was you or someone else), and as a TT owner who also owns DVC, I'd love it. But, I don't ever see it happening. Too many reasons - from realistic demand for campgrounds among the DVC audience to relative point cost - that a campground simply wouldn't fit into the larger DVC structure.

I think you're right for the 'rank and file' of DVC owners, but perhaps a CG DVC could be 'tweaked' to more fit the RV lifestyle. So perhaps an RV DVC that's 'restricted' to RV parks and CGs and not the 'bricks and sticks' properties with a few locations elsewhere and a lower price point. It's a pipe dream I know, but a girl can dream.

nDH (non-Disney Husband) would rather chew glass than invest in DVC, but he does love the Fort. When we talked about a Disney RV DVC that included some 'non-Disney' properties in nice vacation spots he said he'd be very interested. DVC has Aulani, Hilton Head and Vero Beach, an RV DVC could have similar properties, say near the Smokies, Yellowstone, the Gulf Shores, or perhaps even near Sedona or San Diego.

In fact, there's a small-ish really nice RV park in Anaheim that went out of business a year ago and looks to be just sitting there empty.......Disney, are you listening?

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

I agree, it wouldn't fit into the DVC structure.

But a timeshare point system, like DVC's, with other "iconic" campgrounds around the country would work. open up across the street. Might solve their snowbird issue they seem to dislike.

I seem to recall Walt being an innovator ? Maybe its time for that spirit of innovation to make a corporate comeback

 

[mickeyfan0805]

nDH (non-Disney Husband) would rather chew glass than invest in DVC, but he does love the Fort. When we talked about a Disney RV DVC that included some 'non-Disney' properties in nice vacation spots he said he'd be very interested. DVC has Aulani, Hilton Head and Vero Beach, an RV DVC could have similar properties, say near the Smokies, Yellowstone, the Gulf Shores, or perhaps even near Sedona or San Diego.

In fact, there's a small-ish really nice RV park in Anaheim that went out of business a year ago and looks to be just sitting there empty.......Disney, are you listening?

A non-crossover system could certainly work, and I'd love to see that happen. Unfortunately, I find the notion highly unlikely. But, I'd love to be proven wrong - I could almost guarantee that we would be founding owners!

 

[amcc]

Well put, @mickeyfan0805.

Back when I was staying in the cabins, I also go a campsite for me, my boys, and some of my and nephews to camp at. I talked to a lady in the site next to us (it was in 1100 or 1200) that was getting ready to spend the winter there (her husband had passed away but she was keeping up their shared tradition) and she said she (and others) used a long term discount called the Settler's Discount. That was back maybe 2002.

We started the cabins back then after the slump in tourism after 9/11 in 2001 and maybe that discount was a temporary one but she said she and hubs had used it in past years.

But you're right. With demand the way it is now, long extended stays aren't as profitable. As I said, with a 10-day ticket to be used within 14 days, they could still trim that 30 days back. But if they did that for the Fort, they would be doing it for the other resorts (to keep one overall policy) which I doubt would impact anybody staying 30 nights in a single resort hotel continuously so we might get to keep it.

Ed

I find this change intriguing even though it will never affect me. In New Year's 2019-20, we were talking to a long-term Fort dweller who was telling us how the 1700 loop would fill up in the first week of January with her friends - all snowbirds - and most of them worked seasonally for Disney. They got a 50% reduction in the rack rate for their long-term stay and were bus drivers, security workers, retail. I wonder if this policy is a change for their employees as well - I'm sure that retirees are not paid any better than their college kids and having a reasonably priced place to stay probably draws many suitable workers. A Nomadland community if there ever was one and a true community with history and that solved a problem for Disney. I hope Disney finds itself with weekends booked and lots of Tu-Th availability. I don't really like this Disney that blatantly tries to squeeze every penny out of every guest.

However, state parks in Florida in the winter (and summer) are lovely. Cheap and many have sewer. Just 45 minutes from Disney, you can kayak, see manatees, hike, visit natural springs. You do have to book them 11 months in advance to the day.

 

[shawthorne44]

and most of them worked seasonally for Disney. They got a 50% reduction in the rack rate for their long-term stay and were bus drivers, security workers, retail.

That would seem like another use of the suggested campground across the street. I know a friend of mine was looking into buying a Trailer/RV Park across from a Casino. It was mostly employees of the casino.

Wouldn't the Disney campgrounds be very expensive to stay for months? Going to the parks all the time, it makes to be onsite and nearby. But, without lots of park-time, I don't understand.

 

[bama_ed]

Wouldn't the Disney campgrounds be very expensive to stay for months? Going to the parks all the time, it makes to be onsite and nearby. But, without lots of park-time, I don't understand.

I find this change intriguing even though it will never affect me. In New Year's 2019-20, we were talking to a long-term Fort dweller who was telling us how the 1700 loop would fill up in the first week of January with her friends - all snowbirds - and most of them worked seasonally for Disney. They got a 50% reduction in the rack rate for their long-term stay and were bus drivers, security workers, retail. I wonder if this policy is a change for their employees as well - I'm sure that retirees are not paid any better than their college kids and having a reasonably priced place to stay probably draws many suitable workers. A Nomadland community if there ever was one and a true community with history and that solved a problem for Disney.

Senior citizens who work seasonally offer a benefit to Disney.

Besides the 50% discount, returning Disney Cast Members can "step back into their roles" quicker than new or College Program kids (my DD was a CP kid) since they've already had the Disney new hire training. Seniors show up reliably, work reliably, and have less drama reliably. And you can have them return.

With a 50% discount, a Full is probably $70-80 avg a night (use $75) with tax in winter. For 4 weeks that's a cost of $2,100. On the pay side, I don't know if they work 30-40 hours and it's probably odd shifts (not always M-F 8a-5p). But CM pay is moving up on the last contract with $14/hr for some entry level jobs like food service (not saying seniors do this work but that's the scale). Others like bus drivers probably make more (more in demand). At 40 hrs a week at $14 that's $560/wk or $2,240 per 4 weeks gross. And if it's a couple both working, double that to $4,480 gross which is enough to cover campsite costs and groceries/gas.

As with my DD/CP kids and senior citizens, it's the time off benefits of enjoying your Fort Wilderness surroundings and having entry into the parks that they go for. And if they come from a cold climate, they'd be wintering somewhere in Florida anyway. There is a crazy web of seniors who manage/work those maximum stays and keep moving around to end up spending all winter/months in Florida. Places like Jetty Park, the Keys, Florida State Parks, Corp of Engineer, county campgrounds, military bases, and private/business campgrounds. (I listen in/overhear those conversations often ). All completely within the rules but they work the system. Being able to stay in one place for a winter period instead of moving every 14 days (or whatever each place's rule is) is probably worth the work. When just moving around, it's also hard to make any income.

Being retired, I can see the attraction but it's not for me. But from Disney's perspective, they fill a hole in the job market that they and the hospitality/theme park industry in Central Florida struggle with. It's entirely possible this 30-day limit language is NOT included in this 50% discount for long-term CM's (regular CP discounts were about 40% max) since having the seniors stay beyond 30 benefits Disney. But we public guests get that language now.

Bama Ed

PS - If I was the General Manager of the Wilderness Area (one GM has managerial responsibility for The Wilderness Lodge and the Fort Wilderness Resorts-or it used to be that way), I wonder if that revenue loss from the discount does not count against his financial targets/measurements since that is a corporate thing.

 

[tramps’lady]

i just came across this thread and checked some of my reservations. i have two confirmation emails from Dec 19 2020
the first for sep 27 to oct 3 has the old language and the second for aug 29 to sept 27 the new language. i've been here since Jun 7 except for fourth of July weekend and nobody has said anything to me about the new policy when i've visited the office at the beginning of each stay. i've been in the same site also.

guess no more summers at Fort Wilderness, i'll have to settle for once a month for a week. it was fun while it lasted.

 

[bama_ed]

guess no more summers at Fort Wilderness, i'll have to settle for once a month for a week. it was fun while it lasted.

@tramps'lady, are there many of folks like yourself that stay through the summer for an extended period (beyond 30)? I've always gotten the sense that it was a winter-into-spring phenomenon but, then again, what do I know?

Bama Ed

 

[StormyCA]

@bama_ed

Just out of curiosity, do the 'seasonal senior' workers get sign in privileges? Cuz 50% off site fees, a wage (even if reduced by site fees), and free entry is a pretty good deal.

Not for me, either, I did my time and retirement is what I worked for all my life. And nDH would chew glass before he worked at a Disney Park.

We 'sort of' looked into the 'campground host thing' in various govt park systems. But they all seemed to include 'latrine duty' which made it an absolute 'no go' for me.

 

[tramps’lady]

@tramps'lady, are there many of folks like yourself that stay through the summer for an extended period (beyond 30)? I've always gotten the sense that it was a winter-into-spring phenomenon but, then again, what do I know?

Bama Ed

there are at least two of us here now that I know of both in the preferred loops. i also have a friend that just showed up for a month's stay.

i was poking around last night in the WDW reservations page and could not find any openings from June to
sept 2022 for even a week at the Fort. don't know if the system was down or what. looks like next summer is going to be busy at the Fort.

 

[tiggerdad]

The Fort is certainly not the only place that requires long term planning. There are many places where reservations must be made the day that their booking window opens or you wont find any availability. There are tons of RV's coming out of Northern Indiana and all those people are going to want a site. Competition will only get fiercer.

This is it. Mouse missing the boat so far on this market.

 

[bama_ed]

This is it. Mouse missing the boat so far on this market.

Agreed. And while there is talk of the rv/trailer bubble "bursting" at some point in the future, those units will get sold on the used market to owners who will continue to take them out on weekends and book up places well in advance. If supply doesn't keep up with the growth in demand, we get higher prices.

There is SO much available land under Disney's control. There HAS to be 50 acres not being used anywhere in the next 200-yr business plan that Disney could develop into Fort-2. Time share/dvc it. Or if you don't, offer pull thru sites with pergolas and a golf cart included in the rate.

But the Disney management goobs are too hung up on spread sheets and business cases. People WILL pay IF they perceive that they are getting a good VALUE for their buck. A second rv park will take the pressure off the first rv park and generate good will that will mean the guests are more relaxed and willing to spend to enjoy their visit.

Bama Ed

PS - and I don't perceive that I am getting a good VALUE for what I am PAYING. I'm committed to my two planned visits. But the drip-drip-DROP of taking away things and being asked to pay MORE for it is just too stupid for words. The goobs will say, "well if you don't come, somebody else will". My response is, "not when they have options like Universal up the road". The market is not as captive as they believe it to be. This puts a sour taste in my mouth.

 

[tramps’lady]

Agreed. And while there is talk of the rv/trailer bubble "bursting" at some point in the future, those units will get sold on the used market to owners who will continue to take them out on weekends and book up places well in advance. If supply doesn't keep up with the growth in demand, we get higher prices.

There is SO much available land under Disney's control. There HAS to be 50 acres not being used anywhere in the next 200-yr business plan that Disney could develop into Fort-2. Time share/dvc it. Or if you don't, offer pull thru sites with pergolas and a golf cart included in the rate.

But the Disney management goobs are too hung up on spread sheets and business cases. People WILL pay IF they perceive that they are getting a good VALUE for their buck. A second rv park will take the pressure off the first rv park and generate good will that will mean the guests are more relaxed and willing to spend to enjoy their visit.

Bama Ed

PS - and I don't perceive that I am getting a good VALUE for what I am PAYING. I'm committed to my two planned visits. But the drip-drip-DROP of taking away things and being asked to pay MORE for it is just too stupid for words. The goobs will say, "well if you don't come, somebody else will". My response is, "not when they have options like Universal up the road". The market is not as captive as they believe it to be. This puts a sour taste in my mouth.

I couldn't agree more, we've been visiting off and on since 1971, became annual passholder's again in 2018. alternate between hotels and the campground. we are seriously considering dropping our APs and/or drastically reducing our visits to WDW all together. The fun is decreasing as the costs go up and up.

I've had so many issues with my MDE account to count and Disney has no answer except you have to many magic bands, to many resort stays, to many everything on me that I'm getting fed up. Very sad. i really hope the app works better with all this added stuff

only time will tell how this works out.

 

[StormyCA]

I agree, Disney is being short-sided about the future of RVing. More and more people are learning just how nice is is to take your home with you!

And they've already done all the clearing and some of the utility work right next door (meaning "The-Timeshare-That-Must-Not-Be-Named"). It wouldn't be 'that hard' to convert part of that now-cleared area into a few new loops. I admit I know nothing about construction costs, but I'd bet it'd be cheaper than a 'bricks and sticks' resort.

As *BamaEd* said, put in pergolas and throw in a golf cart and call it 'Ft Wilderness+' or 'Ft Wilderness Lightning Loops'. Maybe a new 'private' pool. Then charge whatever the market will bear. And at Disney the 'market' will bear quite a lot!